car stolen with spare key

bbq

I came on here last April to get advice on moving up from a base Golf 1.4. E92 went to a lot of trouble to give me advice and on the basis of that I bought a 1.6 FSI from a dealer which had been imported from the UK. 21,000 miles, 05, immaculate. I did a HPI check on it and there were no problems. Loved it.

Last Monday, a member of the 'travelling community' called to my house to 'sweep up leaves'. In between asking me for bags and brushes which to my great shame, got me out to the back of the house to look for a brush, he obviously made his way into my hall where he lifted the spare key from the bowl on the hall table. I knew nothing about it until Wednesday when I was evidently followed to a nearby shopping centre where my car was taken. They couldn't get it on the two previous nights as the car was blocked in by another car. Our dog went ballistic on Tuesday night, barking and growling, but quietened down then so we didn't take much notice. Suffice to say, we've learned a lot in the last few days.

It was black, reg. 05 D 85833 with a big bash on the back door on the driver's side where a woman reversed into it about three weeks ago. It was due to go to Ace Autobody last week to be repaired.

When it was taken, I didn't realise that the spare key had been taken until I got home to look for it. The cops who came to the scene told me it couldn't have been taken without a key and quite evidently suspected me of pulling a scam. I talked to somebody I know who's a guard and she said that if I couldn't produce the spare key, they'd automatically assume that there was something dodgy about the theft. I couldn't believe it.

I've calmed down a bit now but I was completely freaked and spooked by the idea that the guy had effectively burgled us and that I'd been followed. A guy rang me from the insurance company the next day so I gave him the details of what happened. Then on Saturday, a retired detective who now works for the insurance company came to my house to take a statement. My garda friend arranged for me to go to my local garda station to make a statement. My car was stolen in an area under a different station. She said there were burglaries all over our area with car keys being taken but the local cops seemed to have no idea of what was going on. She told me they weren't even looking for the car - that the emphasis was on suspecting me of staging an insurance scam.

Apparently the ex detective was happy that my story was genuine but I'm sick that there was any doubt. It means that while the emphasis was on suspecting me, nobody had any interest in looking for my car. I've been reading here and on the VAG board today and realise that it's either in a container on its way to another country or possibly sitting in a car park somewhere until they're ready to move. But nobody's looking for it.

Still don't know what the insurance company are going to decide. What is it about this effing country that innocent, hardworking people get tarred with the skanger brush? And the skangers are laughing their asses off at us?

peasant

post de-coupled from old stolen car thread, new thread and heading created

ninty9er

Two words:

Garda Ombudsman!!

bbq

You're right. I'll wait to see what happens first with the insurance company. Then I'll take it further.

Barr

Christ thats a tough situation to be in - im guessing the insurance company will have to pay given the fact they cant disprove your story

return guide

Sorry to hear about your car, my wifes car was taken last week. It was found about half a mile away by the Gardai , who were brilliant.

The car was burnt out, why and how they took it is still a mystery to me but the the Gardai say that it was a very wet night and they may have been looking for a ride home.

Anyway, the claims department are ringing tomorrow for a "tele-meeting" so God knows how that will go.

I hope you do not mind me jumping on your thread, but it seems the recession is bringing back some really crappy memories of the bad 80's.

Rowley Birkin QC

Terrible story man, best of luck with it anyway.

bbq

return guide wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your car, my wifes car was taken last week. It was found about half a mile away by the Gardai , who were brilliant.

The car was burnt out, why and how they took it is still a mystery to me but the the Gardai say that it was a very wet night and they may have been looking for a ride home.

Anyway, the claims department are ringing tomorrow for a "tele-meeting" so God knows how that will go.

I hope you do not mind me jumping on your thread, but it seems the recession is bringing back some really crappy memories of the bad 80's.

It's funny you say that. That's exactly what our insurance broker said. Celtic Tiger disappears and they all crawl out of the woodwork.

Vanbis

I know of a neighbours car robbed a few weeks go and it was found a few miles away but they didnt even know it was taken until the police called. Then i heard my next door neighbour alarm went off and he saw a couple of lads at his BMW but they were gone in a few minutes.

What area did this happen in? I'm sure it will all work out for you, just probably going to take that bit longer.

bbq

You'll appreciate why I won't give details of my area at this stage given what my Garda friend had to say and pending my insurance company's decision. But I'll be happy to give all the details if I have to take it further.

qz

Sorry to hear it bbq, I'll keep an eye out. Hope you get it sorted.

Buffman

ninty9er wrote: »

Two words:

Garda Ombudsman!!

What can they do about stolen cars....

bbq wrote: »

You're right. I'll wait to see what happens first with the insurance company. Then I'll take it further.

Sorry to read about the car, I don't see any reason why your insurance would not cover this though.
Most likely it's lying up in some carpark until the scum are sure there isn't a tracker fitted.
Morale of they story: Don't give strangers access to your house, and never leave car keys in plain view.

L1011

Buffman wrote: »

What can they do about stolen cars....

I would suspect its more about the Guards basically refusing to do their job...

Darragh29

The logic of what is going on here OP is that with credit tightening and cars not selling, the insurance companies are now looking with a huge degree of caution on any car that is stolen or burnt out. They are suspecting, not without grounds in my opinion, that some people under financial pressure are deciding to torch their car or have it "stolen", in order to basically liquidate their asset to alleviate financial pressures and bypass the obvious hassle of selling the car with the market the way it currently is.

I'd be the same though, if I was accused in the wrong, I'd go off the deep end, and as sugggested, I think it is right that you go to the Garda Ombudsman with this and make a formal complaint, because recession or no recession, I don't agree that an insurance company should be able to effectively accuse you of a crime by default. Unfortunately, there is an unsavory alliance between the Gardai and insurance companies in this state...

In your favour though, I used to do insurance assessing and there was a rule whereby if your vehicle was not found, your no claims bonus was unaffected...

January

I'm so afraid of this happening it's unbelieveable... I bought a new car last week (well 07 car) and the dealer told me he'd ring me when he got the spare key in. I'm afraid that my car will be stolen and the only thing that could be used is the spare key!!

Voodoomelon

Where's the key coming from?

January

They say it's coming from the previous owner...

SLIM19198

adrieanne__x wrote: »

They say it's coming from the previous owner...

How do you know if they ever had an EXTRA key cut????

You can never be sure!!!

January

SLIM19198 wrote: »

How do you know if they ever had an EXTRA key cut????

You can never be sure!!!

How would I find out???

Darragh29

adrieanne__x wrote: »

I'm so afraid of this happening it's unbelieveable... I bought a new car last week (well 07 car) and the dealer told me he'd ring me when he got the spare key in. I'm afraid that my car will be stolen and the only thing that could be used is the spare key!!

Very unlikely. What happened to the OP is different, he/she let the guard down and opportunity knocked...

mumhaabu

A relation of a friend of mine had his car stolen with his own key and it was taken using a fishing rod with hook attached through the letterbox as the keys were left in the hall up on the key rack.

Moral of the story keep your keys safe!
Burglaries for keys are becoming more and more common, I'd also fit a tracker if the car is valuable.

leon8v

Sorry to hear it OP, Would suspect that it may have been stolen for parts to repair a crashed car as I wouldnt have thought there would be a huge demand for an 05 Golf 1.6 (no offence!). Fingers crossed all goes well for you.

Victor_M

Sorry to hear that OP, hope it all works out for you.

I had my car stolen with a spare key 4 years ago, I never received a spare key with the car, but the garage supplied a new one for me. The car was recovered and I had the garage run a diagnosis to see if any keys not in my possission were used and low and behold the original spare key was used, it must have been taken by someone in the garage as the previous owner assured me that he had supplied a full set of keys back to the garage.

Moral of the story, if you are buying a car from a garage, get them to wipe every key from the immobiliser and recode only the keys physically in your possession, it won't help the op's situation as the key was nicked but it might help someone else.

Henry Ford III

Sounds like a distressing case OP. Obviously I hope it works out ok for you, but in the circumstances I can see why the insurers are suspicious.

I'd echo the sentiment never ever buy a car withut all the keys.

bbq

leon8v wrote: »

Sorry to hear it OP, Would suspect that it may have been stolen for parts to repair a crashed car as I wouldnt have thought there would be a huge demand for an 05 Golf 1.6 (no offence!). Fingers crossed all goes well for you.

I thought exactly the same. Why go to the trouble of taking an 05 Golf with the back door bashed in? I'm well aware that it's not a 'top of the range' car (though it was to me). It had a nice set of 16" alloys on it (it had the base wheels when I bought it) so we wondered if they took it for them.

In my dealings so far with the insurance company, they haven't sounded like they doubt me (though they probably do). It's the cops who made it quite clear that they did. And my Garda friend confirmed that that's always the case. If I hadn't spoken to her, I wouldn't have realised that. I suppose it's different if your house is broken into and the keys taken. Which mine effectively was but as others have said, I let my guard down and therefore made it easier for them. In my case, the fact that the car was taken from somewhere else rather than my house seems to have led to suspicion of me.

There seems to be two lines of thought on leaving your keys on the hall table or at least within reach of the front door. Some people say they leave them there because they don't want to be held at syringe or knife point if they get into your house and can't find the keys. Others take them upstairs with them because they don't believe the scum will go that far. I'm not so sure. Some people on the VAG board were talking about the scum ringing at the doorbell and asking for the keys. Others being accosted on the street with a knife and told that they might as well hand over the keys because they were going to get the car anyway.

Lovely world we live in eh? And worst of all, you can't be sure that you're going to get any help from the relevant authorities when you become a victim of this stuff.

Darragh29

I'd make a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman anyway OP. I know the circumstances on the face of it might warrant suspicion but at the same time, if we start accepting this as the norm, then it's game over for all of us.

bbq

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'd make a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman anyway OP. I know the circumstances on the face of it might warrant suspicion but at the same time, if we start accepting this as the norm, then it's game over for all of us.

You've said it. That's it in a nutshell.

I'll see what happens with the insurance company this week and then I will contact the Garda Ombudsman. Will keep you posted and many thanks for all of your comments and advice.

Anan1

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'd make a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman anyway OP. I know the circumstances on the face of it might warrant suspicion but at the same time, if we start accepting this as the norm, then it's game over for all of us.

I dunno that that's not a bit of an oveereaction. Much as we all sympathise with the OP, we can also see how the Gardai have to keep a close eye on potential cases of insurance fraud. I think the best way forward here is for the OP to accept that it's nothing personal, and that the Gardai are just doing the job we pay them for. At the end of the day, the OP will get their payout.

Darragh29

bbq wrote: »

You've said it. That's it in a nutshell.

I'll see what happens with the insurance company this week and then I will contact the Garda Ombudsman. Will keep you posted and many thanks for all of your comments and advice.

I wouldn't be so forgiving on the insurance company either. Check this out...

https://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2007/apr/01/revealed-how-gardai-and-solicitors-helped-irelands/

Anan1

What have the ins. co. done wrong?

Darragh29

Anan1 wrote: »

I dunno that that's not a bit of an oveereaction. Much as we all sympathise with the OP, we can also see how the Gardai have to keep a close eye on potential cases of insurance fraud. I think the best way forward here is for the OP to accept that it's nothing personal, and that the Gardai are just doing the job we pay them for. At the end of the day, the OP will get their payout.

Yeah, but what of his right to make a complaint with regard to the theft of his car and have that complaint acted upon??? I think escalating issues like this to a higher authority is a good way of keeping the system honest.

Darragh29

Anan1 wrote: »

What have the ins. co. done wrong?

I'm not saying that they have, just I read an article in the Tribune a while ago about an insurance company paying current Gardai to do behind the scenes investigative work on their behalf. If the Gardai are putting more of an emphasis on the OP rather than his complaint, I'd be wondering if the insurance company are telling him one thing and the gardai another. At the end of the day, if it subsequently turns out that he was involved in the theft/disappearance of his car, they could have him charged and get the money back...

Anan1

Darragh29 wrote: »

Yeah, but what of his right to make a complaint with regard to the theft of his car and have that complaint acted upon??? I think escalating issues like this to a higher authority is a good way of keeping the system honest.

I agree with you in principle. But, in this particular case, what do we have? The word of a Garda friend of the OP that the Gardai are not looking for the car is all, really.

bbq

Anan1 wrote: »

I agree with you in principle. But, in this particular case, what do we have? The word of a Garda friend of the OP that the Gardai are not looking for the car is all, really.

Well, it certainly looks like that. Two Gardai came to the shopping centre after the car was taken. I've already described their demeanour. Frankly, they seemed disinterested. I went home to discover that the spare key was gone. I rang the Garda Station to tell them but talked to a guard who had only just come on duty and knew none of the details. He said the two guards I had dealt with were out in the car and usually checked in about every two hours. He said he'd get them to contact me.

By that evening, I hadn't heard anything from them. I rang the Garda station again and talked to yet another guard who'd just come on duty. I told him the whole story again and he said he'd get them to contact me. I haven't heard from them since. The only contact I've had with that Garda Station was when they sent the two guards to the shopping centre after the car was reported stolen and phone calls made by me. Nobody returned my calls, nobody asked that I make a statement, nobody has contacted me from there since the day the car was taken.

My Garda friend arranged that I make a statement at my local Garda station as the initial crime - the taking of the key which led to the theft of the car - happened in their jurisdiction. The guy from the insurance company asked me who had dealt with the reporting of the theft. I told him and he said he'd contact them.

I think that sounds like nobody's looking for the car.

Darragh29

bbq wrote: »

Well, it certainly looks like that. Two Gardai came to the shopping centre after the car was taken. I've already described their demeanour. Frankly, they seemed disinterested. I went home to discover that the spare key was gone. I rang the Garda Station to tell them but talked to a guard who had only just come on duty and knew none of the details. He said the two guards I had dealt with were out in the car and usually checked in about every two hours. He said he'd get them to contact me.

By that evening, I hadn't heard anything from them. I rang the Garda station again and talked to yet another guard who'd just come on duty. I told him the whole story again and he said he'd get them to contact me. I haven't heard from them since. The only contact I've had with that Garda Station was when they sent the two guards to the shopping centre after the car was reported stolen and phone calls made by me. Nobody returned my calls, nobody asked that I make a statement, nobody has contacted me from there since the day the car was taken.

My Garda friend arranged that I make a statement at my local Garda station as the initial crime - the taking of the key which led to the theft of the car - happened in their jurisdiction. The guy from the insurance company asked me who had dealt with the reporting of the theft. I told him and he said he'd contact them.

I think that sounds like nobody's looking for the car.

The sad thing is that a stolen car doesn't even seem to register in their heads as a crime anymore. If someone broke into your house and stole 6K of cash from the house, it would be a different story but when it comes to a stolen car, it's like a hinderance to them.

Anan1

bbq wrote: »

Well, it certainly looks like that. Two Gardai came to the shopping centre after the car was taken. I've already described their demeanour. Frankly, they seemed disinterested. I went home to discover that the spare key was gone. I rang the Garda Station to tell them but talked to a guard who had only just come on duty and knew none of the details. He said the two guards I had dealt with were out in the car and usually checked in about every two hours. He said he'd get them to contact me.

By that evening, I hadn't heard anything from them. I rang the Garda station again and talked to yet another guard who'd just come on duty. I told him the whole story again and he said he'd get them to contact me. I haven't heard from them since. The only contact I've had with that Garda Station was when they sent the two guards to the shopping centre after the car was reported stolen and phone calls made by me. Nobody returned my calls, nobody asked that I make a statement, nobody has contacted me from there since the day the car was taken.

My Garda friend arranged that I make a statement at my local Garda station as the initial crime - the taking of the key which led to the theft of the car - happened in their jurisdiction. The guy from the insurance company asked me who had dealt with the reporting of the theft. I told him and he said he'd contact them.

I think that sounds like nobody's looking for the car.

It certainly sounds less than courteous, but I can't see any reason for you to presume from this that they're not looking for the car. Still, though, I do think from what you said that you have grounds for making a complaint.

robtri

[just reading the thread here, I doubt the guards are actually looking for the car, they generally don't look for cars, if it turns up and they are made aware of it they will inform you, like somebody reports a car on the side of the road, a burnt out car is found, used in a robbery and caught etc....
The guards do not look for cars, they can't hopefully soon they will as they start to use the number recognition camera's found in the UK police cars...
Also the guards know that if they stole your car like that, i.e. followed you around for two days to get the car, they weren't after it for a joy ride, it was either shipped out already or its in parts somewhere...

I have a bit of experience in this field.. And no I am not a guard....
Not wishing to dump on the OP here, but if you where a guard, somebody reports a car stolen (especially the newer models) and they have the original keys.... well the first thing that comes into your head is... this guy has something to do with it, its a scam its not right... say what you want to say, all the evidence points in that direction..
Then you ring the guards later that day and tell them the spare key is missing... seriously how suspect is this looking
I have every sympathy for the OP here, but look at it from the guards point of view....
as to them not returning calls etc... thats wrong and out of order....

bbq

I'm becoming more depressed by the minute here.

robtri

bbq wrote: »

I'm becoming more depressed by the minute here.

Don't get too depressed, if its all above board and no charges are brought against you, and its over 30 days... press your insurance company for a payout... at least you will get your money back and have learned a valuable lesson....

Buffman

bbq wrote: »

I'm becoming more depressed by the minute here.

Ye, don't get depressed, the insurance will pay and you can replace it.

Your car would have been listed as stolen as soon as you reported it, whatever the Garda may or may not have have taught. Its their job to be suspicious of everything so I wouldn't take it personally.

smash

So if it was stolen from a shopping centre was there no security cameras around the carpark or on roads/buildings near by?

bbq

steve06 wrote: »

So if it was stolen from a shopping centre was there no security cameras around the carpark or on roads/buildings near by?

I spent 45 minutes in the security office looking at CCTV with the security guy. I had described the area I parked to him initially. He said he couldn't see anything so I asked him if I could look at it. Turned out he was looking at the wrong area. Of course, the cameras weren't trained on the area I parked. So we watched the exit of the car park where they would have exited. The quality was useless as confirmed by the retired detective who I spoke to from the insurance company. I saw a number of black cars leaving the car park and only had to look at a window of 45 minutes as that was the maximum amount of time I was there. But the pictures were from a distance and blurred to the extent that it was almost impossible to make out even the shape of the car.

bbq

Still no sign of the car. It was taken from Donaghmede Shopping Centre so, going on what I've read here and on other boards, I wonder if it could be in a car park somewhere nearby.

05 D 85833. Black Golf 1.6 FSI. Damage to back door on driver's side where someone reversed into it (traces of red paint).

Please pm me if you have any information.

Traumadoc

Similar thing happened to my mother a few years ago, The car was stolen when she was in the Spar in Milltown, the car was found a few weeks later with the engine and gearbox removed and burnt out. ( dunsink lane)

A couple of years later the dealer who she bought the car off was convicted for dealing in stolen engines.

cul99

Bad luck mate. My R32 golf was taken from my house last week from behind electric security gates. They took the whole pane of glass out of a window - it doesnt open so there are no alarm contact sensors on it. They searched the kitchen for the keys, opened the gate from the button inside the hall door and out they went. Best part is - this is the second time this year they've robbed it.

bbq

cul99 wrote: »

Bad luck mate. My R32 golf was taken from my house last week from behind electric security gates. They took the whole pane of glass out of a window - it doesnt open so there are no alarm contact sensors on it. They searched the kitchen for the keys, opened the gate from the button inside the hall door and out they went. Best part is - this is the second time this year they've robbed it.

I talked to somebody yesterday who had exactly the same thing happen i.e. the double glazed unit removed from the frame of the window. I wondered if it was an urban legend. Her DH heard voices downstairs at 4 a.m. and thought it was his daughter. He opened the living room door to find a guy standing in the room and another guy holding the glass he'd just removed. After all that, they scarpered when they saw him. They seemed to be after the keys of his BMW. They haven't tried again, so far.

bbq

And I hope you get your car back. How did you get it back the first time?

cul99

Yeah mine was done at 430. The hour before dawn. Only there were three of them. I saw the third getting into the car and he saw me but they were halfway down the road at that stage. And the question is, if you make it harder for them to steal, trackers, gates, immobilisers etc. Will they not just be quicker to go up to your room and threaten you?

I refuse to let the scum dictate what car I drive. But safety has to come first?

Gardai found it 10 days later in an underground car park just down the road from my house the first time.
This time they found it abandoned in Sally Gap. I think the engine went on them.

dioltas

Fuppin backstards. Makes me sick. Hope everything works out for you OP.

ResDub

Sorry Op to hear about your motor. Just wondering can your key be read by a Vw garage to prove its the key being used constantly ? As in you have the original and therfore your spare was used. Would be up to your insurance company investigator to do this for you. Dont know if this can be done but it might help.

By being up front with your insurance will probably help and ensure a pay out, if they don't i think there is an insurance ombudsman.

No harm either checking on line to see golfs that are advertised for sale you might recognise a photo of your own golf.

Best of luck hope it turns up in one piece.

bbq

cul99 wrote: »

Yeah mine was done at 430. The hour before dawn. Only there were three of them. I saw the third getting into the car and he saw me but they were halfway down the road at that stage. And the question is, if you make it harder for them to steal, trackers, gates, immobilisers etc. Will they not just be quicker to go up to your room and threaten you?

I refuse to let the scum dictate what car I drive. But safety has to come first?

Gardai found it 10 days later in an underground car park just down the road from my house the first time.
This time they found it abandoned in Sally Gap. I think the engine went on them.

I didn't realise you got it back this time. I'm very happy to hear it and I identify with everything else you have to say. Like everyone on here I suspect. Don't know what the answer is.