Christmas

midlandsmissus

Hello my atheist friends

Just wondering, and i'm preparing to get blasted , do atheists acknowledge christmas?
Do you ignore the whole thing seeing as you don't believe in Christ, or do you give in to social pressure and celebrate it?

And yes I'm aware that there was originally a pagan celebration on the same date, but the christian celebration has taken over it, so I don't see the argument there really,

goodwill to all

asdasd

This one has been done :-)

blubloblu

It would seem the commercial materialistic festival has now taken over the christian festival in many aspects

AtomicHorror

blubloblu wrote: »

It would seem the commercial materialistic festival has now taken over the christian festival in many aspects

And for that I celebrate it.

I love matter.

The Mad Hatter

I'm quite happy to celebrate it as a chance to be with my family and give/receive gifts.

midlandsmissus

asdasd wrote: »

This one has been done :-)

Oohh where? I'd like to read it

Dave!

With my family and friends it's pretty far from a religious holiday. We all go to church on Christmas morning but that's the extent of it really. That's more tradition than anything, as we spend the whole time making jokes about the sh*tty choir...

Other than that:

Break from college + family all get together + give and recieve gifts + excuse to gorge myself with food and drink = Happy Jesusfest chaps!

AtomicHorror

Dave! wrote: »

We all go to church on Christmas morning but that's the extent of it really.

Gah. I can't imagine a better way to ruin GiftMatter Day.

Stercus Accidit

Watch the adverts on television.

If you find gifts, meteor, santa etc. mentioned more than christ, jesus, baby jesus, holy father etc. you wont be the only one.

If the religious aspect is mention once among 20 buy this that the other adverts I'll be surprised.


"christmas" as it once was is no longer the case. It is a public holiday, based around buying things and making money, there is barely a religious connotation in it any more.

I'll take the time off, see friends and family, get drunk, and if religion crosses my mind at any stage it will be fleetingly. Ask any child what christmas is about, and they will mention santa or presents, ask any business man, and its the profit margin.
Ask any joe soap, and its the time off, friends and family, and I'll wager most people in reality care more about the break and atmosphere than anything else.

Dave!

It was torture when I was like 10 years old... but now it's just fun!

Stercus Accidit

Dave! wrote: »

It was torture when I was like 10 years old... but now it's just fun!

They must have misinterpreted the request for the iron maiden album.*

*unsure of your age or musical preferences

AtomicHorror

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

They must have misinterpreted the request for the iron maiden album.*

*unsure of your age or musical preferences

I don't think age is relevant when it comes to the torture of listening to Iron Maiden.

Dave!

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I don't think age is relevant when it comes to the torture of listening to Iron Maiden.

:eek:

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And into the valley of death go the 600! Cannons to left of them. cannons to right of them! Fire and Thunder! The Trooperrrrrrrrrrr!

*intro riff*

AWESOME

CerebralCortex

Dave! wrote: »

:eek:

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And into the valley of death go the 600! Cannons to left of them. cannons to right of them! Fire and Thunder! The Trooperrrrrrrrrrr!

*intro riff*

AWESOME

Come on thats like their only good song.

Karl Hungus

I celebrate Festivus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4ip9ZCIM9g

pH

And yes I'm aware that there was originally a pagan celebration on the same date, but the christian celebration has taken over it, so I don't see the argument there really,

ROFL

Things I do related to the pagan year end celebration at this time of year:

• Tree
• Decorations
• dinner
• presents
• cards
• cake
• mince pies
• Santa/Rudolf/Reindeer
• Yule log
• too much food/drink.
• Sales shopping
• TV

Things that I don't do because Christians "decided" to pretend that Jesus was born on the same day

• Go to church/mass*
• Have a baby Jesus playset in my house

How you (and others) figure that means that the Christian celebration has take over it is beyond me.

* In fact most Catholics can't even manage this any more, having invented "midnight mass" as a technical way to get the whole religion rubbish out of the way as soon as possible, then finding that midnight being after pub closing time on xmas eve and the church was full of drunks, Catholics can now get it out of the way at "midnight mass" - now held at the more convenient (and sober) 7pm.

lostexpectation

asdasd wrote: »

This one has been done :-)

yeah but for some reason it keeps coming up again year after year

toiletduck

The annual thread along this line truly marks the begin of the festive season for us.

midlandsmissus

pH wrote: »

ROFL


Things I do related to the pagan year end celebration at this time of year:

• Tree
• Decorations
• dinner
• presents
• cards
• cake
• mince pies
• Santa/Rudolf/Reindeer
• Yule log
• too much food/drink.
• Sales shopping
• TV

Things that I don't do because Christians "decided" to pretend that Jesus was born on the same day

• Go to church/mass*
• Have a baby Jesus playset in my house

How you (and others) figure that means that the Christian celebration has take over it is beyond me.

pH,

Clarify it for me a bit more. I take it you are a fully fledged pagan as you are celebrating a pagan festival. I would like to hear more of what you do as a devout pagan: what do you do other times of the year?

asdasd

starts trollilng

I think we should ban militant atheists from Christmas. Let them have their own bloody day on the 3rd Tuesday in Jan, where the feasting consists of tofu snacks, readings from Dawkins, and a minute glass of organic wine.

Cos there is probably no God.

toiletduck

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I would like to hear more of what you do as a devout pagan: what do you do other times of the year?

Eats chocolate around Easter I wager.

pH

midlandsmissus wrote: »

pH,

Clarify it for me a bit more. I take it you are a fully fledged pagan as you are celebrating a pagan festival. I would like to hear more of what you do as a devout pagan: what do you do other times of the year?

No I said "related to the pagan celebration", meaning that I'm quite happy to partake in ancient feel-good "rituals" if you want to be pedantic and call eating mince pies a pagan festival.

You claimed that the Christian festival had overtaken the pagan one, I pointed out that most things that I do at Christmas have their roots in the ancient pagan/Roman festival, a small amount of it is modern secular tradition and a tiny part (if any) relates to your Christian festival.

Now if any Pagans out there take umbrage to atheists eating turkey and ham then falling asleep in front of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang then fine, bring them on, however your feigned indignation on behalf of Pagans rings very false.

stevencarrwork

Christmas is a reminder that Christians so love each other that they cannot agree even on the date of Christmas. You won't find Russian Orthodox Christians using that Pope's calendar!

Saying that the Spirit proceeds from the Father *and* the Son indeed!

When everybody knows the Spirit proceeds from the Father *through* the Son.

No wonder they don't share Christmas together when they are split over such basic and fundamental and important Christian doctrines as that.

However we atheists are happy to have anybody's holidays. I'll go to 4th of July parties. I don't care...

asdasd

Christmas is a reminder that Christians so love each other that they cannot agree even on the date of Christmas. You won't find Russian Orthodox Christians using that Pope's calendar!

It would presumably be the 25th Dec. in the Julian calander though.

midlandsmissus

pH wrote: »

No I said "related to the pagan celebration", meaning that I'm quite happy to partake in ancient feel-good "rituals" if you want to be pedantic and call eating mince pies a pagan festival.

You claimed that the Christian festival had overtaken the pagan one, I pointed out that most things that I do at Christmas have their roots in the ancient pagan/Roman festival, a small amount of it is modern secular tradition and a tiny part (if any) relates to your Christian festival.

Now if any Pagans out there take umbrage to atheists eating turkey and ham then falling asleep in front of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang then fine, bring them on, however your feigned indignation on behalf of Pagans rings very false.

Oh I wouldnt call myself indignant on behalf of pagans at all. I just find it interesting that you insist on calling a christian festival a Pagan festival, when you are in fact neither Christian or Pagan. If somebody just said to me 'to be honest I dont care where it originated, I just like the tradition of extra grub and parties', i'd have more respect for them

midlandsmissus

stevencarrwork wrote: »

Christmas is a reminder that Christians so love each other that they cannot agree even on the date of Christmas. You won't find Russian Orthodox Christians using that Pope's calendar!

Saying that the Spirit proceeds from the Father *and* the Son indeed!

When everybody knows the Spirit proceeds from the Father *through* the Son.

No wonder they don't share Christmas together when they are split over such basic and fundamental and important Christian doctrines as that.

However we atheists are happy to have anybody's holidays. I'll go to 4th of July parties. I don't care...

This is hardly being a true athiest. A true atheist would shun these, and i am going by an atheists words here. As people have said to me on here, you're either something or you're not.

Gambler

Growing up I never celebrated christmas and never missed it in the slightest. The rest of my family started celebrating it a few years ago and to be honest that kinda drives me nuts, why suddenly start celebrating something 20+ years later?!

Anyway, first christmas after I started seeing my wife I did my usual (stayed at home watching TV and playing games drinking beer and eating Pizza - Maybe there is a Heaven after all!) and herself got really upset at the idea of me spending the day alone. She thought it must be horrible for me to be alone despite my protests and since then I've been invited to her family's house on Christmas day. If I'm honest I'd probably still prefer to spend the day at home but I do enjoy it and the big meal is certainly something you wouldn't want to be cooking every week!

Karl Hungus

Frankly... You can celebrate Christmas because it has a very real meaning for you and your family, as a time of happiness and celebration. Connection and joy with one's family and loved ones is frankly a much better reason for celebration than some nonsense about a magic Jewish zombie.

pH

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Oh I wouldnt call myself indignant on behalf of pagans at all. I just find it interesting that you insist on calling a christian festival a Pagan festival, when you are in fact neither Christian or Pagan.

I find it interesting that you insist on calling a Pagan festival a Christian festival. I find it interesting that you're narrow minded enough to post a trollish thread here insinuating that atheists are somehow hypocritical and deep down a forced to celebrate your "Christian" festival.

Christmas (as it is today) has very little to do with Christianity, and this isn't as Fox news and others like to claim some secular agenda to "take the Christ out of Christmas", it's because it never was in the first place.

Christians openly admit that the 25th December isn't the birthday of Jesus, they stuck a celebration mass on the date of existing celebrations. Even then it was (to use a modern phrase) "Epic Fail", with Christmas day falling in prominence as a holiday or feast for most of Christian history.

The whole Christmas thing is in fact a lie about a lie, with gospels in total disagreement about the time of his birth, and biblical scholars mostly agreeing that Luke is in error (therefore invalidating most of the "Christmas" story celebrated at this time of year).

The modern festival/traditions we recognise as "Christmas" being pretty much a secular Victorian invention, very much about money and merchandise, and very little about religion.

midlandsmissus

pH wrote: »

I find it interesting that you insist on calling a Pagan festival a Christian festival. I find it interesting that you're narrow minded enough to post a trollish thread here insinuating that atheists are somehow hypocritical and deep down a forced to celebrate your "Christian" festival.

Christmas (as it is today) has very little to do with Christianity, and this isn't as Fox news and others like to claim some secular agenda to "take the Christ out of Christmas", it's because it never was in the first place.

Christians openly admit that the 25th December isn't the birthday of Jesus, they stuck a celebration mass on the date of existing celebrations. Even then it was (to use a modern phrase) "Epic Fail", with Christmas day falling in prominence as a holiday or feast for most of Christian history.

The whole Christmas thing is in fact a lie about a lie, with gospels in total disagreement about the time of his birth, and biblical scholars mostly agreeing that Luke is in error (therefore invalidating most of the "Christmas" story celebrated at this time of year).

The modern festival/traditions we recognise as "Christmas" being pretty much a secular Victorian invention, very much about money and merchandise, and very little about religion.

For a start i'm not trolling. If you read the whole thread up until your first post you will find it was good mannered. Don't dish it out if you can't take it back. Never mind the whole "Christ wasnt born on this day' which we can save for a later argument . The point here is 'Are you an atheist or a pagan or what?' How can you be an atheist and decide to celebrate a Christian/Pagan festival? Surely this is going against atheist views?

stevencarrwork

midlandsmissus wrote: »

For a start i'm not trolling. If you read the whole thread up until your first post you will find it was good mannered. Don't dish it out if you can't take it back. Never mind the whole "Christ wasnt born on this day' which we can save for a later argument . The point here is 'Are you an atheist or a pagan or what?' How can you be an atheist and decide to celebrate a Christian/Pagan festival? Surely this is going against atheist views?

I can go to 4th July parties and I'm not even American.

midlandsmissus

stevencarrwork wrote: »

I can go to 4th July parties and I'm not even American.

That's not a religious celebration stevencarrwork, so doesnt really conflict with a religious belief as such, as christmas does with atheism.

Dave!

midlandsmissus wrote: »

That's not a religious celebration stevencarrwork, so doesnt really conflict with a religious belief as such, as christmas does with atheism.

Not American -> still celebrates 4th July

Not Christian -> still celebrates Christmas

midlandsmissus

Dave! wrote: »

Not American -> still celebrates 4th July

Not Christian -> still celebrates Christmas

Dave celebrating the 4th of July hardly compromises your atheist beliefs does it. No comparison there at all.

stevencarrwork

midlandsmissus wrote: »

That's not a religious celebration stevencarrwork, so doesnt really conflict with a religious belief as such, as christmas does with atheism.

I think you are confusing atheists with Puritans, good Christians, who launched a war on Christmas.

Dave!

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Dave celebrating the 4th of July hardly compromises your atheist beliefs does it. No comparison there at all.

Are you intentionally missing the point?

Celebrating 4th July compromises your lack of American [heritage]

Celebrating Christmas compromises your lack of Christian beliefs

If I listen to Christian music does that make me a hypocrite too? If I enjoy looking at Da Vinci's paintings?

condra

Christmas for me is a cultural festival. People do it differently in different parts of the world, and people call it different things, but its origins are in the shifting axis of the Earths rotation - the seasons.

The combination of good food, gifts, family, alcohol, music, dancing, bright lights, decoration etc, is all very hedonistic.

What better time of year to celebrate than the coldest, darkest period (in the Northern Hemisphere), when everything is about to change?

The whole Earths axis has stopped tilting, and is beginning to tilt in the opposite direction, and will do so for 6 months.

It is the middle of deep Winter, and we're still alive. Now we have so much to look forward to.

Humans have recognised (and celebrated) this cosmic event for thousands of years, indeed the ancients in this small island copped onto it at least 5000 years ago.

If Christianity we're to disappear tomorrow, humans would continue to celebrate the solstice for thousands of years still.

midlandsmissus

Dave! wrote: »

Are you intentionally missing the point?

Celebrating 4th July compromises your lack of American [heritage]

Celebrating Christmas compromises your lack of Christian beliefs

If I listen to Christian music does that make me a hypocrite too? If I enjoy looking at Da Vinci's paintings?

Are you deliberately missing the point? How does celebrating 4th July compromise your lack of american heritage. eh, no it doesnt.

The point is, one of those celebrations is religious and the other isn't. And therfore being an atheist, celebrating one of those makes you a hypocrite. Whereas celebrating the other one of them just makes you a bit idiotic. Why celebrate something that has absolutely nothing to do with you.

Dave!

Any number of reasons... tradition... fun... taking advantage of a public holiday...

Why listen to music that is intended to praise god, etc.? Why look at paintings that are supposed to be a homage to jesus?

Perhaps because you don't have to be religious to appreciate aspects of them?

Can you perhaps draw a parallel there with any upcoming religious holidays...?

midlandsmissus

midlandsmissus wrote: »

And therfore being an atheist, celebrating one of those makes you a hypocrite.

How does enjoying a solstice / mid winter party make you a hypocrite?

What do you want us to do? Sit at home and not watch any TV cos it's christmas TV. Go to work?

Even the guys I work with in Dubai will be off that day so there is no point going in.

condra

Lots of secular people take part in religious rituals and celebrations, out of respect for tradition, curiosity, cultural integration etc. It's all part of not being bigoted.

Either way, "Christmas" is not an appropriate word for it anymore, not that I care much. I love Christmas.

midlandsmissus

Deleted User wrote: »

How does enjoying a solstice / mid winter party make you a hypocrite?

What do you want us to do? Sit at home and not watch any TV cos it's christmas TV. Go to work?

Even the guys I work with in Dubai will be off that day so there is no point going in.

How does enjoying a solstice/mid winter party make you a hypocrite.

Because you would have seached for that term to justify it to yourself.

Yes personally if I wasnt a christian, I wouldnt mark the day at all. Especially, if i was an atheist.

hairyheretic

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Clarify it for me a bit more. I take it you are a fully fledged pagan as you are celebrating a pagan festival. I would like to hear more of what you do as a devout pagan: what do you do other times of the year?

If you really want an answer to that, why not drop by the paganism forum and ask?

toiletduck

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Yes personally if I wasnt a christian, I wouldnt mark the day at all. Especially, if i was an atheist.

Why not?

RayMc

midlandsmissus wrote: »

How does enjoying a solstice/mid winter party make you a hypocrite.

Because you would have seached for that term to justify it to yourself.

Yes personally if I wasnt a christian, I wouldnt mark the day at all. Especially, if i was an atheist.

This is going to be your first year celebrating christmas? Fun times for you

midlandsmissus

womoma wrote: »

Lots of secular people take part in religious rituals and celebrations, out of respect for tradition, curiosity, cultural integration etc. It's all part of not being bigoted.

Either way, "Christmas" is not an appropriate word for it anymore, not that I care much. I love Christmas.

Womoma you have come on the christian board and been very extreme and said 'I am trying to save at least one person from the deception that is christianity', and there you are 'taking part in religious rituals and celebrations, out of respect for tradition, curiosity, cultural integration'. It kind of belittles what you said earlier.

condra

MLM with all due respect, it is starting to sound to me like you have a real issue with atheists the people, aswell as atheism, the viewpoint.

Suggesting that atheists have no place in celebrating or enjoying Christmas is quite absurd.

midlandsmissus

And Womoma, i dont want that to sound too harsh, because you have also been very nice to me on here, it's just the spirit of the argument

midlandmissus - what did you do at halloween?
Did you get dressesd up? Did you take the kids trick or treating?

midlandsmissus

womoma wrote: »

MLM with all due respect, it is starting to sound to me like you have a real issue with atheists the people, aswell as atheism, the viewpoint.

Suggesting that atheists have no place in celebrating or enjoying Christmas is quite absurd.

But how is it absurd, when athiests on here make sure Christians adhere to every single aspect of Christianity or say we are being flippant christians, and yet it is okay for atheists to do what ever they want, and even celebrate religious festivals?

Quid pro quo, you said it to me, i'll say it to you.

Dave!

midlandsmissus wrote: »

How does enjoying a solstice/mid winter party make you a hypocrite.

Because you would have seached for that term to justify it to yourself.

Yes personally if I wasnt a christian, I wouldnt mark the day at all. Especially, if i was an atheist.

What would you do when your family all come up for dinner? Go to your room?

You seem to think that not believing in something means that you have to actively oppose it.

I'm not a Buddhist, but I'd be interested in going to a temple.

I'm not a Catholic, but I'd love to see the Vatican.


BTW feel free to address my point about religious music and art