Graduate enrty to medicine and fee's abroad

Tind777

Hey
Anyone have info on people getting say a 4yr medical degree in eastern europe eg prauge, poland, hungary or even the UK etc. and also what fee's do they have to pay. I know that fees for budapest are €7500 per year but think it takes 6 yrs:(

taram

I'm pretty sure in the UK it's only those holding relative undergraduates that can apply for the 4 year medicine program. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=520793 this might help?

eth0_

And some require your primary degree to be in a science or science-allied discipline.

Also don't forget that if you go to Poland, Prague etc to study you will be expected to become fluent in their language as you will have to deal with real patients on your own and you won't have your own personal translator! You may have to do more exams after you graduate to allow you to work as a doctor in Ireland or the UK then.

Traumadoc

Try to talk to some Irish graduates of these medical schools.

Chunky Monkey

taram wrote: »

I'm pretty sure in the UK it's only those holding relative undergraduates that can apply for the 4 year medicine program. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=520793 this might help?

Do you mean relevant? Not necessarily. One of my friends on my course was an archaeologist before coming here. Kings College London, for example, AFAIK don't care what your primary degree was in as long as you have a decent GAMSAT score. Leicester however looks for a health related primary degree. UCAS website is best place to start to find out individual requirements.

ashlingm

Im currently studying veterinary in hungary and i know this course is actually better internationally recognised then the irish one. I know of a few people on the Dentistry and Medicine courses too - if you want to get in touch please PM me.

It is expensive but if its something you really want to do then id go for it! the fact is so recognised also pushed in my favour. accomodation and cost of living is very cheap here too. it probably works out alot less then the english courses. PM me if you need more information.

Tind777

what fees you paying, you get home often

ashlingm

my fees are about 10,000 a year. its expensive although there is an option of doing 4 years instead of 5 if you have a degree and also you can apply for a transfer to UCD if your in veterinary ...although noone here has applied as they all seem to enjoy the course here.

there is grants available i think from your council or city corporation. i never applied for one (was too late).

flights are grand. i know some people who go home once every 3 weeks or so as flight could be about 60 euro return...does depend on the time of year but ryanair usually have good deals

Tind777

can you do medicine in four years, do you need to know hungarian for the clinical side of the medical course? is there many graduates and irish people in the course, fees of 10k arent that expensive when you compare it to 12.5k for graduate entry medicine. do medicine graduates secure internships in ireland

ashlingm

Tind777 wrote: »

can you do medicine in four years, do you need to know hungarian for the clinical side of the medical course? is there many graduates and irish people in the course, fees of 10k arent that expensive when you compare it to 12.5k for graduate entry medicine. do medicine graduates secure internships in ireland

i dont tihnk u can do medicine in 4 years, its a 6 year course so with a degree you could probably get it to 5 years. doctors and dentists have to learn hungarian as part of the course so when it comes to practising in your final years you can communicate with patients...vets dont for some reason- we have maths instead! but its meant to be quite manageable...and sure you can practice all the time!

theres a good lot of irish over here..not sure of the exact numbers. the vet course has over 40 people in first year, i think medicine is the same. dentistry has very few - but there all english courses so at least other people in your class with have excellent english. we have people from everywhere in ours - sweden, norway, greece, ..etc

theres meant to be no problem with getting work experience or jobs in ireland.

Tind777

do you mean 40 irish students or 40 english speaking students, and are the majority of them graduates or school leavers, is the course intence?

ashlingm

Tind777 wrote: »

do you mean 40 irish students or 40 english speaking students, and are the majority of them graduates or school leavers, is the course intence?

there 120 in my year of which 40 are irish. there are 3 veterinary courses currently being run in our college - hungarian, english, and german. the english course is the largest (120 a year). the irish would be the bigges group in the year from a single country. the rest are made up of everywhere else.

theres a big mixture of graduates and school leavers. id say about 60% school leavers and 40% graduates...although because its such a small year everyone just gets along with everyone and we all socialise with each together. the graduates and school leavers get on really well - but then again it depends on the people! but this seems to be the case for every year.

the course is pretty intense, but im sure this is the same everywhere. although we have heard its slightly tougher then the irish course but this proably relates to the course being more internationally recognised then the irish course. Its tough but do-able, you need to work though. Its a bonus that you have 4 chances to pass every exam so it takes alot of pressure off. You also get to pick and choose dates for your exams so its flexable as in it works around you.

I can put you into contact with a medical student if you wish...but i am happy to answer any questions

eth0_

4 chances to pass every exam worries me somewhat. If it took someone 4 goes to pass their finals i'm not sure i'd want them treating me or treating my pets..

ashlingm

yea but the standard here is also higher then that of ireland...also theres things like that going on in the irish colleges too!

Fionnanc

I dispute the standard is higher than Irish institutions. Cash rich students paying high fees, probably means the institutions are better funded , not the standard of graduate is better.
Lastly echoing the moderater's post, 4 attempts at exam is a joke. You should have only2 attempts the 2nd attempt allowing for illness or bereavement, and no i do'nt consider the pressure being to high , wimping out and failing the exam to be grounds for an extra repeat.
Maybe noone applied to transfer to UCD because they wouldn't meet the requirements? Though it is very appealing to live as a student in Budapest

Tind777

and what grids school did you attend may i ask fionnac???:D:D:D

Fionnanc

No grind schools, one and only leaving cert sitting and no repeats in university. I have been lucky with my health.
Though a very high proportion of entrants would be the products of repeat LCs in grind schools

ZorbaTehZ

Tind777 wrote: »

and what grids school did you attend may i ask fionnac???:D:D:D

Believe it or not but there are actually people who can get in to medical school without having to repeat or go to a grind school...

Tind777

i agree there are a few intelligent ppl in medical school, but for 70% of medical students its not a case of how well they do in the LC, but a case of how many times they does the LC, deciding to repeat the LC is not a reason why someone should be allowed to become a doctor, when for 95/96% of ppl the LC the first time is the LC the last time, repeats LC'S have nothing to be snobby about

ZorbaTehZ

It's more 50%-50% tbh, and I don't really see a problem with having repeaters etc. going to medical school, getting in is the easy part, it's getting all the way through the course that's hard

Fionnanc

The LC is not an intelligence test. A good work ethic can get gr8 results with an average intelligence in the LC.

sillymoo

ZorbaTehZ wrote: »

It's more 50%-50% tbh, and I don't really see a problem with having repeaters etc. going to medical school, getting in is the easy part, it's getting all the way through the course that's hard

So true :rolleyes:

Tind777

A good work ethic can get gr8 results with an average intelligence in the LC.


then 50% of tomorrows docs are lazy or have a below average intelligence, vast majority of medical students in ireland are academically incapable of gaining entry to nation school teaching and physcology in mary I

ashlingm

in fairness were all here because we adore animals or people depending on the course. Personally i think all the people who are here are truely dedcated to becoming a vet or doctor...for example how many people in ireland get into the course simply because they got the points and have no interest in the subject at all? personally i know of a few off hand. So many people here have travelled from across the world to fulfill their dream...

We also get repeats as 80 out of 120 people are doing the vet course in their second language. Some of them really know their stuff in practice but to translate it in exams lets them down...picture doing it through irish...get my point?!?

Fionnanc - im taking it your neither a vet nor a doctor. One week studying either and im sure ull appreciate all the exam option you can get - its a 5 year course with somedays starting at 8am and finisheing at 7pm...as much as you study sometimes you need more time! i know i did for one of my exams...not every student repeats 4 times...and those that do usually end up dropping out anyway.

How do you know that all our foreign doctors in our hospitals dont have the same education system in their country??? perhaps they get more chances...and to be honest some of them i have come across are far better and more caring then our irish doctors? Please get your facts in order Fionnanc before you come on here slating foreign colleges, would you turn down a doctor simply because they trained in a different country? perhaps took a while to pass a few exams?! bearing in mind I have to do maths , physics, botany, to name but a few 'useless' but exams none the less.....

Also thought you be interested to know that a few years ago that the irish veterinary college in UCD was stripped of its european status because it wasnt up to standard with other european colleges....

ZorbaTehZ

Tind777 wrote:

vast majority of medical students in ireland are academically incapable of gaining entry to nation school teaching and physcology in mary I

Wth are you talking about... you need 560+ points to get into medicine ergo they would obviously be able to get into national school teaching.

ashlingm wrote:

not every student repeats 4 times...and those that do usually end up dropping out anyway.

I'm sorry but there's absolutely no way you can justify giving students 4 opportunities to pass an exam, that is a farcical state of affairs.

ashlingm

ZorbaTehZ wrote: »

I'm sorry but there's absolutely no way you can justify giving students 4 opportunities to pass an exam, that is a farcical state of affairs.

its 4 times altogether,...however you cannot go into 3rd year without passing all your exams. so its pretty much for first and second year only! i perhaps didnt make this very clear...it encourages the student to settle and as the majority of student are from abroad i think its a great idea. In fairness the college is the second oldest in europe. you saying there doing something wrong? its accepted by the european union so of course its acceptable! funny how the irish college lost its european status a few years back though...:eek:

I know for a fact ill make a good vet, i excel at science and have a keen interest in the welfare of animals, however i didnt get the 570 points required to get in? does that mean i should miss out on the chance to the only career ive ever wanted to? because i cant completely grasp irish or english literature?

Tind777

ZorbaTehZ wrote: »

Wth are you talking about... you need 560+ points to get into medicine ergo they would obviously be able to get into national school teaching.



nation ed and physcology in mary I is 540, i know loads of repeat LC'S who got around 450 who repeated and got into medicine

Fionnanc

MIC awards bonus points for Maths in their BA
"it encourages the students to settle". It still is a lower standard, ridciulous to have that many repeats. As a practicing doctor/vet you and your patients have to deal with your f*ckups. No repeats.
I said a good work ethic with ana verage LC can get the results not that they will get the results
Consider getting up at 7am, studying from 7:30 to 8:30, studying at each lunch break, getting home at 16:15 to continue studying until 11pm, repeated every day with even more study at weekends. Say 8 am to 11pm with relevant small breaks of 30 minutes. Try this for 1 year before LC. Study actively-do every possible exam paper without books and then correct with books.
You want to be a doctor so work vets/'doctors' hours when preparing for your LC, not get average LC, then repeat in Grind school then pay the big bucks to continue the doss in central Europe.
Lastly teacher training is a great option now- job for life, very difficult to get fired, loads of holidays to earn the extra cash, and in the current climate the points will shoot up. Anecdotally there are many successful people in the private sector doing H Dips, as they want to be with their young families.

mardybumbum

Tind777 wrote: »

repeats LC'S have nothing to be snobby about

Us repeats have to be snobby now. Why wasnt I informed earlier.
I really must start looking down on people more often.

eth0_

Tind777 wrote: »

then 50% of tomorrows docs are lazy or have a below average intelligence, vast majority of medical students in ireland are academically incapable of gaining entry to nation school teaching and physcology in mary I

That's a really offensive comment to make about medical students.
I agree the LC is nothing more than a memory test but if medical students couldn't hack the course they'd drop out within the first year.

And no offense but i'm sure all medical students in Ireland can spell "psychology"...

Tind777

eth0_ wrote: »

And no offense but i'm sure all medical students in Ireland can spell "psychology"...

well explain this then
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/1999/03/05/ihead.htm

eth0_

Human error is unpreventable.

Tind777

mmmm!!!

eth0_

Please explain how you could make human error never occur again? Everyone is fallible.

Traumadoc

Fionnanc wrote: »

Lastly echoing the moderater's post, 4 attempts at exam is a joke.

Most postgraduate exams allow you at least 4 attempts often more, I have no problem with multiple exams as there is less pressure on the examiner to get the student through and the student often knows the subject a lot better than if they had got it the first time.
Some of the best doctors I know had difficulties with undergraduate exams and took " the scenic route" through college.

Chunky Monkey

Woah four attempts?? Bloody hell I think we only get two attempts at exams then we have to repeat the year and same goes with assignments- if we are late handing them in three times, we have to repeat the year.

I'd imagine the main reason for not allowing students to repeat many times is funding more than anything.

tallaght01

We used to get 3 attempts to pass.

I know lots of people who utilised the repeats a lot, and I know lots of people who've taken a long time to get their postgrad exam.

There's very little correlation with how a good a doctor they are.

Most people who are actually qualified will tell you that.

Vorsprung

Tind777 wrote: »

well explain this then
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/1999/03/05/ihead.htm

This incident occurred because someone had mistakenly placed a vial of KCl in with the NaCl vials. When the antibiotic was mixed up, the SHO has mistakenly picked out the KCl.

Ban the troll tbh.

onetrueone

I'd bet the labels and packaging for the KCL and NaCL are very similar or identical.
Several pharmaceutical companies produce their various products with identical packaging.
Roche is a big culprit in this regard.

Tind777, that was just a really stupid comment to make, you have no idea of the circumstances of that error (Workload factors, tiredness, lack of suitable back up staff etc).

Don't throw stones if you live in a glasshouse.

Vorsprung

onetrueone wrote: »

I'd bet the labels and packaging for the KCL and NaCL are very similar or identical.
Several pharmaceutical companies produce their products with identical packaging.
Roche is a big culprit in this regard.

Yea the old ones in the hospital I work in were exactly the same, apart from a subtle difference on the label. Now the few vials of KCl that are kept on the ward are locked away, and have to be signed out when needed.

onetrueone

And they wonder why errors occur, suitable legislation should be enacted to outlaw companies from producing similar packaging/labels on their different products.

Btw to reduce errors in my Job I talk aloud each product e.g. picking up the KCL I would read aloud "KCL x%" if someone is with me I get them to double check as well.

People look at you like are a nutter but it cuts down almost completely on selection errors.

This method works because sometimes our minds read a label the way we would like it to be, not what it actually is. Talking a loud the product forces our brains to be used in a different way. i.e. using another sense - speach.
Speach and vision is more effective than vision alone.

Hope this helps.

Tind777

<snip> anyone who uses this forum knows I very very rarely interfere with a thread. I'm not into warnings or bannings. But Tind777 is taking the piss a bit. This post contributes nothing to the debate, and seems to be designed only to wind up other posters. Like I said, I'm not into bannings, so I'm happy to let it go with just a deletion as long as it doesn't keep happening. Tind, feel free to PM me if you think I've taken you up the wrong way. Cheers. Tallaght01 <snip>

Vorsprung

onetrueone wrote: »

And they wonder why errors occur, suitable legislation should be enacted to outlaw companies from producing similar packaging/labels on their different products.

Btw to reduce errors in my Job I talk aloud each product e.g. picking up the KCL I would read aloud "KCL x%" if someone is with me I get them to double check as well.

People look at you like are a nutter but it cuts down almost completely on selection errors.

Nurses always double check things with another nurse - even vials of NaCl, but they're absolutely right, it cuts adverse incidents. It should be widespread, and if doctors picked up the habit it wouldn't be half bad at all.

Traumadoc

Its a good point, I remember the Galway incident. It happens every so often, generally when more senior staff get junior staff to perform relatively mundane tasks. Like calling the intern up at 3 am to give IV antibiotics and not explaining to the intern which line is which.
There was an intern on a manslaughter charge in the north a few years ago, from such an incident, I think it was thrown out.

EDIT:here it is

The young Malaysian doctor accused of the manslaughter of a patient
at Belfast's Royal Victoria Hospital was acquitted by a jury which
took just 45 minutes to reach its verdict. In February 1994 Samuel
Beers (36) died when penicillin was injected into a tube leading to
his brain rather than a tube connected to his wrist. The jury
accepted Dr Yin Yin Teoh's explanation that, because the two tubes
were identical, she had to disentangle them and follow them to their
source to establish which was which. She believes that she must have
got the two mixed up again as she reached for a syringe.

Traumadoc

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_/ai_n14488673

onetrueone

I will add that most Pharmacists working in a communty setting do not get Lunch breaks, I work 9 to 10 hours a day with no Lunch break.
Why is this "no breaks culture" so tolerated in the Medical field?

Traumadoc

You would get in the way of the managers at the trough, sorry i mean canteen.

DrIndy

sure there's never any space in the canteen between 1-2pm! I always grab my 15 minute lunch around that time.

eth0_

Traumadoc wrote: »

because the two tubes
were identical, she had to disentangle them and follow them to their
source to establish which was which. She believes that she must have
got the two mixed up again as she reached for a syringe.

I really don't think that is an acceptable excuse.
Yes she was tired but obviously not so overcome with sleep that she didn't realise she needed to trace each IV line back to source...and then turned round to pick up a syringe and forgot which tube she was holding? I wonder if you asked her colleagues, would they point out any other incidents of incompetence.

Also - isn't that a massive single point of failure? Shouldn't the lines be colour coded or labelled?

Traumadoc

I remember at the time the hospital introduced new protocols for the labeling and colour coding of the various lines- after the fact, and after shafting the intern.

eth0_

Shafting her? I take it she no longer works in medicine?