Golf lessons south dublin

jackal

Hi lads I am a beginner, and I want to take lessons. I live around the stillorgan area, so leapordstown is where I am going at the moment by default. I asked about lessons and the 45 Euro per 1/2 hour struck me as very expensive. What do you think, is this a fair rate or a bit much? Any alternatives or recommendations. If I have to spend that kind of money I would like to get lessons with someone who will really make it worth the money. I work out in west dublin, near grange castle in fact so lessons out there on weekday evenings would not be out of the question either.

ShriekingSheet

jackal wrote: »

Hi lads I am a beginner, and I want to take lessons. I live around the stillorgan area, so leapordstown is where I am going at the moment by default. I asked about lessons and the 45 Euro per 1/2 hour struck me as very expensive. What do you think, is this a fair rate or a bit much? Any alternatives or recommendations. If I have to spend that kind of money I would like to get lessons with someone who will really make it worth the money. I work out in west dublin, near grange castle in fact so lessons out there on weekday evenings would not be out of the question either.

That's pretty much the going rate for standard 30 min lessons. And much cheaper than the lessons with more renouned teachers. Michael Allen in Leopardstown is reported to be very good. Some good feedback on him on the board here recently. Dave Lavelle in Spawell is also very good with beginners.

If you are seeking to make it really worth the money it's best to get regular lessons over a set period, ensuring that you actually work on the lesson-tips in between. If you take one lesson to begin with and ensure you like the guy, then book maybe another 3 lessons over the following 6 weeks, provided that you can commit to a couple of hours work on the range and at least one round a week between lessons.

A one off lesson isn't a whole lot of use. 4 lessons of 7 or 8 weeks would give you great benefit and ask the pro about doing a deal on bulk booking.

jackal

Ok If thats the price, fair enough.

GreeBo

bringing up an old post
Im thinking I want to book maybe 3 or 4 video lessons with someone in south dublin.
Im down to 11 since last year but my ball striking with my irons is too inconsistent. My driving is what keeps me in the game.

Who would u recommend? Im actually only 10 mins from spawell but I dont think her does videos. I want to be able to come away with a copy of the video so I can look/work at it.

cheers lads.

BUACHAILL

If your looking to get a lesson around stillorgan I will suggest a pro called Kevin Foy. He is excellent. he fully focuses on what your swing needs as opposed to what he feels is the perfect swing. Dont get me wrong I'm not saying others dont but I just found him great.

If you want his number from I will route it out for you.
Price wise he is right on que with your first quote but I found he does you a deal if you book a few lessons from him.

GreeBo

Does he do video analysis?
And if so, does he let you take a copy of it home. From what I can see most of them dont let you take a copy home (except BPG so far)

gerp

Hi GreeBo i find i so hard to believe that more pros dont put you on camera and give you at least a 5 - 10 second clip of your swing to look over.

So we can cry in private.
I live on the southside what pro's do put you on camera on the southside.

I am thinking of getting some lessons and finally getting to single figures ( 11 hcap )is there any pro that gives you a programme of sorts.
Interestingly enough as someone said a 1 off lesson might show you whats wrong but what about the future.

By the way b p g not PGA i like to get my lessons from a good source.

So any one had a lesson on the southside with video analysis can you give the pro's name please.

Cheers guys

ShriekingSheet

Lads,

There's a couple of reasons not many guys video you and hand you a tape afterwards. 1) it's likely that there's no real benefit in you looking at your own swing on a TV and going out the back garden then to "correct" it. If you ask me, you're more likely to disimprove this way.

Secondly, the above constitutes a reduced likelihood of you returning to the pro for Lesson #2 anytime soon, so for obvious reasons they're reluctant to facilitate the DIY method.

Despite the cynical natue of my second point, I think pros are spot on not to give out DVDs in most cases. Their job is to make you better - giving you a DVD is not going to make you better and could make you worse.

I'm sure one or two of them (someone who's already been mentioned on the thread) would be happy to do it for you. But they most likely see their job as telling you whatever you want to hear for 30mins. Frankly, once they get their €45 they don't give a sh*t.

Anyone who does give a sh*t will not have you at home analysing your own swing and applying your own theories or what you remember from the 30 min lesson the week before.

I've been to Brendan McDaid for a year who is one of the elite coaches in Ireland and among the first to introduce video analysis here. He's great and I learned a huge amount about the golf swing and how my own works. These days I go to a very knowledgable and experienced guy and we use absolutely no technology. He's also great. We process things verbally, maybe work through the physical positions slowly and get a feel for whats required, then he'll show me a drill to practice with if i need to.

IMO Brendan is great for guys around a 5 handicap and down. The second type of pro I mentioned is very common and is cheaper and more suitable for most of us. Better technology does not mean a better lesson.

If you want to see what you look like, get a mate to hold any decent digi camera or phone camera as you swing. Don't pay someone €45 per half hour to do it!

GreeBo

I would disagree that there is no benefit in me being able to look at a collection of my own swings over the course of a couple of lessons.
I would much prefer to know exactly what it is I am doing rather than what I think I am doing, with a high quality camera you can see each position you get into, with your mates camera you get a collection of blurs surrounded by a nice setup and nice finish pose.

One lessons rarely made anyone better, at least not anyone who had more than a trivial problem to solve so Im not advocating that you go, get a video lesson to take home and never go back again.

Im not paying €45 just to get a video, I want a lesson with something I can take home and look at, work on. You made the point yourself "applying .....what you remember from the 30 min lesson the week before."
With a video lesson you will have the video to refer to so u know exactly what was said.

Maybe its just horses for courses but I certainly think there is some benefit to it.

Berti Vogts

I completely agree with Shrieking Sheet.

I'm a seven handicapper changing my swing with the aid of a few lessons at the moment. There's no video involved. You need to get a feel for those changes and being able to see your swing on video is of very little assistance in my view.

ShriekingSheet

GreeBo wrote: »

I would disagree that there is no benefit in me being able to look at a collection of my own swings over the course of a couple of lessons.
I would much prefer to know exactly what it is I am doing rather than what I think I am doing, with a high quality camera you can see each position you get into, with your mates camera you get a collection of blurs surrounded by a nice setup and nice finish pose.

One lessons rarely made anyone better, at least not anyone who had more than a trivial problem to solve so Im not advocating that you go, get a video lesson to take home and never go back again.

Im not paying €45 just to get a video, I want a lesson with something I can take home and look at, work on. You made the point yourself "applying .....what you remember from the 30 min lesson the week before."
With a video lesson you will have the video to refer to so u know exactly what was said.

Maybe its just horses for courses but I certainly think there is some benefit to it.

Good argument, and I won't disagree with you on the positives you've mentioned above.

What I was and am getting at, is that the negatives out-weigh these positives.

This kind of technical analysis and breakdown of mechanics has been popularised by television coverage of professional golf. It can make great entertainment and interesting viewing when the experts go through the frame-by-frame shots of the top players. It's not just in golf - look at Andy Gray for the football. In both cases, I agree that it's both entertaining and interesting viewing.

However, this is a way of making good tv - it's not a way of improving your golf game. I'm firmly of the belief that golfers who really go in for this scientific approach will more often than not over-complicate and become far too technical and mechanical. Most clubs have a a guy or two, usually off a 3 or 4 handicap, that swings it like a tour pro but can also shoot 80+ on other days. Most clubs also have the scratch or 1 h'cap players that get relatively few lessons, may not have quite as impressive a swing etc. The former guy usually finds himself puzzled and frustrated as to why he can't get to the next level despite putting in the hours. The latter guy maybe hasn't shot higher than 78 since that storm in '97
Ok I'm using loose analogies here but only to elaborate on what I'm getting at.

To boil it down, the more technical and mechanical you become, the harder it will be for you to feel confident and free to hit the ball to your target. In my view, watching yourself on a screen is a surefire way to make yourself more analytical and technical. It may suitable for elite players on tour or in the higher echelons of amateur golf. But for you and I, I think taking two or three clear pieces of instruction from a lesson and working on those on the practice area, playing some rounds with maybe one of them as a swing-thought, then returning for further instruction is the way to go.

The racing film, Days of Thunder is a (inadvertantly) perfect example of this way of approaching sport. He didn't know anything about how a car worked or the terminology, he just sat in a drove. Of course it's good to know how the golf-swing works and to practice some specific mechanics as advised, but when it comes to game day, you have to forget about mechanics and just sit in and drive. This will be hard to do if you've trained yourself to be analytical.

This is all my POV and in the Bob Rotella school of thought. Your POV is the Ben Hogan approach, so don't take the above as me completely rejecting the mechanical approach. I mean, who am I to disagree with Ben Hogan? I just think Hogan's approach was geared towards the elite golfers of the world who were going from good (tour-pro journeymen) to great (major winners). Our "good" is more like an 8 handicap and "great" might be scratch.

I guess I'm saying between a good local pro and Rotella books you can learn to crawl, walk and run. Then you can deepen your analysis and go to an elite coach who'll fine tune your mechanics and teach you to fly.

As you might guess, learning to fly costs more than €45 per 30 mins

thewing

I'm a beginner too, and have had two lessons with Kevin Foy - for €35 you can't go wrong. The video analysis is of great benefit, but he keeps it simple and just gives you one thing to work on.

BUACHAILL

I see the benefits of having video analasis and I also think for me I work better without this aid. I am more of a feely person and as Thewing has said Kevin keeps it very simple and gets you working on one aspect at a time.

That said he works out of stepaside range and I know their is a bay up there with video in it so I am sure he would have no problem letting you video the lesson.

Nothing a quick phone call couldnt sort out !!

03mcgs0

Lads does anyone know what the pro's in Elmgreen are like at teaching??

Anyone have any lessons from them before??

PhilipMarlowe

I just got a spangly new camcorder recently... must set it up and take a video of my swing for a good cringe.

20goto10

Just when I started thinking golf lessons were recession proof I found a bargain. 8 weeks, 1 hour sessions, max 8 in a group. €160

gerp

Seeing your golf swing does not make your swing more complex for me it makes it so easy to see what's wrong with my swing.

Secondly it would be great to be able to go home and sit back and look at your golf swing on tape ideally with some notes on a note pad of the lesson.

As for what you said about a pro telling you what you want to hear no offence thats a stupid comment.

If i see my golf swing on camera what i see is real

If i get a lesson without being placed on camera surely there is a worse chance of a pro telling you what I want to hear.

Over the years i have got lessons with camera and without and i have to say i am just one of those people that a pro could spend 10 mins explaining whats wrong with my swing and 30 seconds on screen and i would see his/her point straight away.

Remember a lesson is only 30 mins i dont want to waste precious time.

I except your point that feel is very important in terms of learning but why cant we have both.

Pro's always use the excuse that a camera makes things more complex thats a real cop out as far as i am concerned.

My brother in law came home from a holiday in Florida 2 years ago and got a lesson at the David Leadbetter academy and came home with his lesson on DVD with the pros voice audio over the footage.

Not trying to have ago at you but i think we should be getting alot more for our money.

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Lads,

There's a couple of reasons not many guys video you and hand you a tape afterwards. 1) it's likely that there's no real benefit in you looking at your own swing on a TV and going out the back garden then to "correct" it. If you ask me, you're more likely to disimprove this way.

Secondly, the above constitutes a reduced likelihood of you returning to the pro for Lesson #2 anytime soon, so for obvious reasons they're reluctant to facilitate the DIY method.

Despite the cynical natue of my second point, I think pros are spot on not to give out DVDs in most cases. Their job is to make you better - giving you a DVD is not going to make you better and could make you worse.

I'm sure one or two of them (someone who's already been mentioned on the thread) would be happy to do it for you. But they most likely see their job as telling you whatever you want to hear for 30mins. Frankly, once they get their €45 they don't give a sh*t.

Anyone who does give a sh*t will not have you at home analysing your own swing and applying your own theories or what you remember from the 30 min lesson the week before.

I've been to Brendan McDaid for a year who is one of the elite coaches in Ireland and among the first to introduce video analysis here. He's great and I learned a huge amount about the golf swing and how my own works. These days I go to a very knowledgable and experienced guy and we use absolutely no technology. He's also great. We process things verbally, maybe work through the physical positions slowly and get a feel for whats required, then he'll show me a drill to practice with if i need to.

IMO Brendan is great for guys around a 5 handicap and down. The second type of pro I mentioned is very common and is cheaper and more suitable for most of us. Better technology does not mean a better lesson.

If you want to see what you look like, get a mate to hold any decent digi camera or phone camera as you swing. Don't pay someone €45 per half hour to do it!

ShriekingSheet

gerp wrote: »

Seeing your golf swing does not make your swing more complex for me it makes it so easy to see what's wrong with my swing.

Secondly it would be great to be able to go home and sit back and look at your golf swing on tape ideally with some notes on a note pad of the lesson.

Many of us are educated folk these days. We've learned to analyse and solve problems. Your post above is a good description of how you might study for an engineering degree, or prepare for a science project. You learn learn the theories and apply them. What's wrong? Why is it wrong? How can I fix it?
Logical stuff right?

The same does not apply to golf.

gerp wrote: »

As for what you said about a pro telling you what you want to hear no offence thats a stupid comment.

Sigh. If you ask certain pros to film you they'll be happy to oblige... for a fee of course. What have I got to gain from telling you it can be a destructive experience and encourages an analytical approach.

gerp wrote: »

Over the years i have got lessons with camera and without and i have to say i am just one of those people that a pro could spend 10 mins explaining whats wrong with my swing and 30 seconds on screen and i would see his/her point straight away.

Let's be clear. I'm arguing against sending you home with a DVD to ponder. Using video during the lesson as you describe above is great for explaining things. But using as a in-lesson tool is one thing. Handing the DVD to you to watch in your own time is another.

gerp wrote: »

Pro's always use the excuse that a camera makes things more complex thats a real cop out as far as i am concerned.

And sure what would pros know?

gerp wrote: »

Not trying to have ago at you but i think we should be getting alot more for our money.

My advice, which you can take or leave, is that you should be getting what you want for your money. From your posts, it seems to me what you want is to learn about and perfect the golf swing. DVD analysis and mechanical breakdowns are ideal for this purpose. If this is your objective, you and I are talking about different things.

But if, like me, your objective is to take less shots at the weekend, find a reputable pro and let him guide you to achieving this end. Do what thousands of good and great golfers have done before you without the aid of DVDs and before SkySports and markers that draw lines on the screen.

Club fitters might adjust a 28 handicappers irons by 1 degree "for a more consistand strike", a driving range pro is likely to work on 7 irons off a matt for 30 mins, when the student can't chip and putt to save his life and the lads in the golf shop will tell my dad who hits an 80 yard slice that the Ping G10 "Draw" will keep him on the straight and narrow - more so than the G5 he already has. There's no shortage of people out there who'll take your hard-earned off you.

At least most of these things are harmless to your golf - if not your wallet - but what I genuinely think the DVD thing can be harmful to your approach to the game, reducing your enjoyment and chances of success. And I've nothing to gain from telling you that.

1916_clan

wow, great posts, it's great to read interesting posts instead of those 1-2 liner posts with no substance,

Great subject, video analysis with take home DVD VS no DVD or video analysis

I have had lessons with and without video analysis. I find that video analysis golf lessons are far superior, you see where your going right and wrong, the pro can convey how you need to correct your swing, you can visually see your improvement after you have been taught and you never forget the points the pro gives you because it's on take home dvd.

I think the term video analysis makes it seem complicated when its really very simple and enlightening, they should probably come up with a new name for it.:)

body {margin:8px} .tr-field {font:normal x-small arial} I completely disagree with shriekingsheet, he sounds like 1 pro i went to and when I asked him did he give a video golf lesson with a DVD he got stroppy and explained to me that it was useless and when I told him David leadbetter believes it's the only way to give a lesson he still disagreed instead of saying "ohhh i must look into it" or "it might be good for my clients":mad:

So far only 2 places in Ireland do the DVD like the leadbetter academy, 1 guy in north Dublin(i had lessons with him) and the other guy in Belfast(would like to get 1 there too)

arg

Very interesting thread. It's great to hear the different perspectives on the use of video analysis and focusing on the mechanics. Here's my experience.

I went for my first pro lesson last summer after I developed a slice I couldn't get rid of. I got the video analysis of my swing; from which I was told that my right foot should be turned 10 degrees further to the right and I should 'reach out' further when I address the ball (fairly exact feedback). I have to admit that I thought the DVD was great, and while I wasn't convinced about the verbal feedback I thought that the DVD would be a great help. I convinced myself that by analysing the video of myself I could work out all my swing flaws (idiot!). For me this was a complete disaster; my swing fell to pieces fairly quickly; my scores got progressivly worse and really struggled to break 90 (more often scoring 100+). I then stumbled across the Bob Rotella book and read about his perspectives on the game and how you should trust your swing and focus on a target when you play rather than think about the mechanics. The improvements were fairly dramatic within a few weeks I was far more consistent and regularly broke my best score.

I'm not saying that DVD's aren't useful for certain golfers; but in my case it caused me to over analyse my swing and led me to obsess about mechanics.

DonkeyPokerTour

arg wrote: »

Very interesting thread. It's great to hear the different perspectives on the use of video analysis and focusing on the mechanics. Here's my experience.

I went for my first pro lesson last summer after I developed a slice I couldn't get rid of. I got the video analysis of my swing; from which I was told that my right foot should be turned 10 degrees further to the right and I should 'reach out' further when I address the ball (fairly exact feedback). I have to admit that I thought the DVD was great, and while I wasn't convinced about the verbal feedback I thought that the DVD would be a great help. I convinced myself that by analysing the video of myself I could work out all my swing flaws (idiot!). For me this was a complete disaster; my swing fell to pieces fairly quickly; my scores got progressivly worse and really struggled to break 90 (more often scoring 100+). I then stumbled across the Bob Rotella book and read about his perspectives on the game and how you should trust your swing and focus on a target when you play rather than think about the mechanics. The improvements were fairly dramatic within a few weeks I was far more consistent and regularly broke my best score.

I'm not saying that DVD's aren't useful for certain golfers; but in my case it caused me to over analyse my swing and led me to obsess about mechanics.

I think Shreik will be chalking one up for himself, but i'll save him the time and do it for him .

I have never done the video analysis of my golf swing but tried it for my goal kicks in GAA and it made them worse also. Now i just kinda forget about it, walk back and just kick it. Going alot further and mostly where I want them to go!

PhilipMarlowe

I'd have to agree to some extent on the lack of 'need' for video analysis.
I rarely get lessons.. like less than a handful ever but when getting a putting analysis done once, I took a full swing with a 7 iron that was captured on video.
I was put on a split screen versus Mike Weir (because I'm a leftie too).
It was obvious that setups were similar and legs etc ok but I wasn't completing my shoulder turn and hence my backswing.
That sort of technical thought got into my wee head and pretty much wrecked my long game for a while because I knew that if I wanted to swing like a pro, I'd have to complete the shoulder turn... never mind that I am an inflexible yoke at the best of times.
It took me quite a while to lose that thought and get completely focused on BALANCE and TARGET again. Like sheet says, there is the beautiful way to swing a club and there is the beautiful scorecard and they aren't always linked!

ShriekingSheet

Thanks for the replies guys. While it's good of you to back up my suggestion, I'm sorry for your troubles I assure you, I too was that soldier, and it's not an enjoyable place to be. But it seems that we have all learned from it, and are likely to be better for it.

1916_clan wrote: »

Great subject, video analysis with take home DVD VS no DVD or video analysis

Man, I've repeatedly said I think that video analysis during a lesson is a great thing in moderation. Packing some one off with a DVD to replay over and over is a different kettle of fish.

1916_clan wrote: »

I completely disagree with shriekingsheet, he sounds like 1 pro i went to and when I asked him did he give a video golf lesson with a DVD he got stroppy and explained to me that it was useless and when I told him David leadbetter believes it's the only way to give a lesson he still disagreed instead of saying "ohhh i must look into it" or "it might be good for my clients":mad:

So far only 2 places in Ireland do the DVD like the leadbetter academy, 1 guy in north Dublin(i had lessons with him) and the other guy in Belfast(would like to get 1 there too)

Well that's poxy behaviour for any service provider. But saying to him "David Leadbetter does it" to prove him wrong was a childish argument if you ask me. Does the fact that Butch Harmon didn't send Tiger Woods home with a DVD after each lesson mean Leadbetter was wrong?

Just logically take a look at it like this...
Of the only two people you can find providing this service, one is widely rumoured to be not fully qualified as a PGA teaching pro and the second is a huge american franchise that has come to Ireland to make money off a brand name. Would you like fries with that DVD?

Look, I'm not posting this for you in a "put that in your pipe and smoke it" way. I don't need to reassure myself that I'm right by convincing you. I've just been in that technical mindset and I know what it's like. Find a golfer near you, the best golfer in your club or some really low guy you admire, ask him who he gets lessons off and go to that pro. Don't ask the pro to teach you in a certain way or whatever, just go with an open mind and do what he says. And read Golf is Not A Game of Perfect while you're at it

gerp

Looking over the comments i have to say that yes it is important not to get over complicated in your mind about your swing.

I think it takes a very strong minded golfer to make important changes to there golf swing.

Most golfers as soon as they get in any way worse go back to the old swing and are really putting off there progress.

I think when getting a lesson the most important thing for me is understanding whats wrong with my swing and thats where the video camera is just so helpfull.

There is no point in fooling yourself into thinking that your swing is good when it might be crap.

2 years ago when i was out playing with a guy one day i told him that i was getting regular lessons the first thing he said to me was did the pro put you on camera and i said no and he said that i really need to see my swing on camera.

So i asked a mate if he would put me on his camera when i saw my swing i felt like shooting the pro i was seeing at the time, my swing looked brutal but the pro said i was doing great and my swing looked really good.

I am going to book a lesson with K F in stepaside and start this years golf with a bang and hopefully get down to single figures.

Before i book it does any other pro on the southside offer Video analysis or take home tape.

ShriekingSheet

gerp wrote: »

There is no point in fooling yourself into thinking that your swing is good when it might be crap.

2 years ago when i was out playing with a guy one day i told him that i was getting regular lessons the first thing he said to me was did the pro put you on camera and i said no and he said that i really need to see my swing on camera.

So i asked a mate if he would put me on his camera when i saw my swing i felt like shooting the pro i was seeing at the time, my swing looked brutal but the pro said i was doing great and my swing looked really good.

I know I really should just drop this but it's wrecking my head.

Here's what you're saying:
1) your pro was wrong to tell you you were making progress and your swing was looking good. Would you prefer he said "in fairness mate, that's garbage, give up the game"?
2) You're saying you should be realistic with yourself and your attitude should be "my swing is crap, why fool myself?"
3) Some guy you played with two years ago told you you need to see your swing on camera? If you're gonna take advice from whoever offers it, chances are you'll end up hugely confused.

You can disregard everything else I've said but believe me when I tell you this: without even seeing your swing, if you improved your attitude alone, leaving your technique exactly as it is, you would be a more confident player and would shoot lower scores. This mindest is costing you shots without a shadow of a doubt. If you can play off 11 thinking like this, there's a seriously handy single figure golfer in you who's being held back by poor thinking.

Now think for a second, if you took this on board, read GINAGOP and put a few points of it into practice, as well as getting lessons from a good pro, trusting him and making gradual sound improvements, imagine how good you could be...

GreeBo

Even the best of the "feel" teachers will say that you must have a sound swing/setup to begin with.
You can put all the trust in the world into a crap swing and you swill still get inconsistent results out of it.
You said yourself that you need lessons from a pro as part of believing in your swing, a lesson with something to takehome is just a different type of lesson.

I can agree that sitting at home and slowmo-ing your swing in an attempt to cure all the problems is a disaster. But its no more of a disaster than trying to over analyse each piece of your swing in a mirror.
Any lesson is really only supposed to work on 1 or 2 things at a time. For example the pro might have you over-exaggerate a move in an attempt to counteract another bad move that you are making, trying to make other swing changes at the same time aint going to work out too well.

Do you not think there is some grey are between "in fairness mate, that's garbage, give up the game"? and "yeah dude, looking perfect!"
If you are a 50 year old 20 h'cap player then the pro needs to set a realistic goal with you. If that means lower scores with an ugly swing, so be it. Naturally if you are a 20 year old 15 h'cap then you have very different goals and abilities.

I video lesson highlighting your swing at the start of the lesson and comparing it with your (hopefully) better swing at the end of the lesson give you the ability to keep practicing the right thing at home.

Perhaps the reason few pros offer this service is that they are either unwilling or unable to foot the setup costs?

ShriekingSheet

GreeBo wrote: »

Even the best of the "feel" teachers will say that you must have a sound swing/setup to begin with.
You can put all the trust in the world into a crap swing and you swill still get inconsistent results out of it.
You said yourself that you need lessons from a pro as part of believing in your swing, a lesson with something to takehome is just a different type of lesson.

I can agree that sitting at home and slowmo-ing your swing in an attempt to cure all the problems is a disaster. But its no more of a disaster than trying to over analyse each piece of your swing in a mirror.
Any lesson is really only supposed to work on 1 or 2 things at a time. For example the pro might have you over-exaggerate a move in an attempt to counteract another bad move that you are making, trying to make other swing changes at the same time aint going to work out too well.

Do you not think there is some grey are between "in fairness mate, that's garbage, give up the game"? and "yeah dude, looking perfect!"
If you are a 50 year old 20 h'cap player then the pro needs to set a realistic goal with you. If that means lower scores with an ugly swing, so be it. Naturally if you are a 20 year old 15 h'cap then you have very different goals and abilities.

I video lesson highlighting your swing at the start of the lesson and comparing it with your (hopefully) better swing at the end of the lesson give you the ability to keep practicing the right thing at home.

Perhaps the reason few pros offer this service is that they are either unwilling or unable to foot the setup costs?

Jesus. Is this all one person posting under various usernames to wind me up today?

Nah just kidding. It's a common question that Rotella addresses a few times in different books. "How can i trust a swing if it's flawed?"

There's isn't much of a gulf in the way I see it and the way you do. It's 4pm on Friday though so I'm not gonna get into it.

gerp

GreeBo wrote: »

Even the best of the "feel" teachers will say that you must have a sound swing/setup to begin with.
You can put all the trust in the world into a crap swing and you swill still get inconsistent results out of it.
You said yourself that you need lessons from a pro as part of believing in your swing, a lesson with something to takehome is just a different type of lesson.

I can agree that sitting at home and slowmo-ing your swing in an attempt to cure all the problems is a disaster. But its no more of a disaster than trying to over analyse each piece of your swing in a mirror.
Any lesson is really only supposed to work on 1 or 2 things at a time. For example the pro might have you over-exaggerate a move in an attempt to counteract another bad move that you are making, trying to make other swing changes at the same time aint going to work out too well.

Do you not think there is some grey are between "in fairness mate, that's garbage, give up the game"? and "yeah dude, looking perfect!"
If you are a 50 year old 20 h'cap player then the pro needs to set a realistic goal with you. If that means lower scores with an ugly swing, so be it. Naturally if you are a 20 year old 15 h'cap then you have very different goals and abilities.

I video lesson highlighting your swing at the start of the lesson and comparing it with your (hopefully) better swing at the end of the lesson give you the ability to keep practicing the right thing at home.

Perhaps the reason few pros offer this service is that they are either unwilling or unable to foot the setup costs?

I think you are Bang on Greebo.

Over the last 10 years golf has boomed and golf pros surely made good money so why not invest in a good camera and software.

I think its shows a real lack of Drive and ambition by most pros unless of course most pros dont like teaching ??

I have a feeling this wont be the last time we have a thread about this topic.

Xander1971

the pro out in my course, Joe Murray (Hollsytown) is doing a special at the mo for around €200, you get around 9 holes of on course management and a few lessons (don't know finite details). He's a great teacher and a damn fine golfer. Well worth the cash in my opinion, I have him booked in for March to try and find my summer swing again

Also the guys in Leopardstown (Dave in particular) is excellent.

jackal

OP here. I am booked in with Michael Allen, and looking forward to it. The snow put my plans on hold for a while there.

I am glad the discussion went off topic, because I have to say, the over analysis and focusing obsessively on the technical side is a curse. I am a beginner, nearly 30 and played a bit of pitch and putt in my teenage years, so I am rubbish. I had a "good natural swing" when I played my first game six months ago. I bought golf mags, books etc and started trying to focus on minute details to the detriment of my overall swing, and I have to say, enjoyment. Of course books can help with basics: grip, stance, ball placement etc, but they all seem to quickly degenerate into tiny details, how to do x better and cures for common ills which I may or may not have!

Going to try forget everything I have read and put my swing in the hands of the pro without trying to think too hard about it, and see what he says.

jackal

Went for my first lesson. You really cannot beat it. I learned more in a 1/2 hour with someone who knows what they are doing than in the previous 6 months of hacking it off the mats in the driving range and reading mags etc. I have 4 lessons left, and will be needing more!

Went to golf vision also on saturday after the lesson for a friends birthday. Very interesting set up there. Really enjoyed it. They have some seriously good equipment for the people that are interested in the whole camera analysis thing. We only got though about 12 holes in 3 hours. Probably spent as much time drinking coffee etc as you would walking so it works out much the same speed as real golf. The better players in our group seemed to be hitting the right distances on the simulator as they would in real life.

Pebble beach is harder than it looks on tiger woods 09 though.:(

erratic

I've seen recommendations for pros for low single figure handicappers, can any of you recommend a pro on the southside for a 12 handicaper?
I've been playing for over a decade, never had a lesson, I've been an inconsistent 13-14 for the last 8 years, got to 12 for the first time at the end of last season.
My primary aim is consistency, if that delivers 11, great!

Berti Vogts

erratic wrote: »

I've seen recommendations for pros for low single figure handicappers, can any of you recommend a pro on the southside for a 12 handicaper?
I've been playing for over a decade, never had a lesson, I've been an inconsistent 13-14 for the last 8 years, got to 12 for the first time at the end of last season.
My primary aim is consistency, if that delivers 11, great!

A good teaching pro is a good teaching pro regardless of your handicap in my opinion. Any of the recommendations made by others should be equally suitable to you. And anyway, it's not like you're a beginner off 12!

thegen

Ive nevr had a lesson but have heard very good reports on Raymie Burns in South County.

GreeBo

erratic wrote: »

My primary aim is consistency, if that delivers 11, great!

Have you been keeping track of where you are actually dropping the shots?
I used to think it was the missed fairways & greens but even the best in the world do that. Assuming you have the basics of a swing a better short game is going to be what separates you from a single digit handicap IMO.

erratic

Thanks for the suggestions so far.
I make as many up and down pars as regulation pars.
My chipping is sharp (on home turf at least), my putting is just about average.
I read "Golf is not a game of perfect", last year and it was definitely worth a couple of shots per round.
I hit way fewer greens in regulation now than I did in 2000 when I went from 19 to 13. My chipping was poor then (a dose of the unmentionables).
My irons are fair up to 150m, long irons and fairway woods are poor.
I'd say I hit less than half the fairways on average, with the odd one landing on the far side of dividing spinney.
My home course (parkland with no water and short rough) has a number of parallel holes where you get away with waywardness. Thats kills you when on away courses, links in particular.

I'm open to changing my swing entirely, spend some time in the range between lessons, but would like to evolve my current swing rather than destruct it and start from scratch.

GreeBo

erratic wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestions so far.
I make as many up and down pars as regulation pars.
My chipping is sharp (on home turf at least), my putting is just about average.
I read "Golf is not a game of perfect", last year and it was definitely worth a couple of shots per round.
I hit way fewer greens in regulation now than I did in 2000 when I went from 19 to 13. My chipping was poor then (a dose of the unmentionables).
My irons are fair up to 150m, long irons and fairway woods are poor.
I'd say I hit less than half the fairways on average, with the odd one landing on the far side of dividing spinney.

How many putt are you taking per round. If its more than 30 then you need to work on it.
If your long irons and woods are poor then as well as practicing them, try not to hit them when you are playing. Off a 13 handicap you dont really need to hit them at all during a round. Play the longer holes as a bogey hole and at least you wont be dropping shots.

If you think your short game is good enough then the next thing to check is your course management. Its quite possible that you are putting yourself into trouble needlessly.

arg

GreeBo wrote: »

How many putt are you taking per round. If its more than 30 then you need to work on it.

30 putts per round would be quite good I think. Most people would have between 30-36 per round. I do agree that placing emphasis on putting practive is generally very rewarding.

GreeBo

arg wrote: »

30 putts per round would be quite good I think. Most people would have between 30-36 per round.

I would disagree with this Im afraid. I think the "average" golfer takes 36 putts. The problem in golf is that there are far more crap players than good players. This swings the average up. In theory you should only be taking 36 putts if you are hitting 18 greens. If you are not hitting 18 greens and still taking 36 putts then you are never getting up and down, so its either your short game or your putting but probably both.
I would consider anything over 32 putts a bad day on the greens and Im off 11.

The worst PGA player last year had an average of 30.8 putts per round and the best 27.9 for a difference of 700 more putts that year.

arg wrote: »

I do agree that placing emphasis on putting practice is generally very rewarding.

Most definitely. Its arguable the easiest way to shoot lower scores. There is no reason why anyone cannot putt as well as Tiger Woods does.

Iceman78

GreeBo wrote: »

Most definitely. Its arguable the easiest way to shoot lower scores. There is no reason why anyone cannot putt as well as Tiger Woods does.

Absolutely clueless about golf if you think like that. If most average players could putt like the worst pro on tour, they would drop 2/3 shots no problem.

GreeBo

Iceman78 wrote: »

Absolutely clueless about golf

Yep, you got me.:rolleyes: