Splitting weight training over a single day?

AARRRGH

Hello

I hope someone can give me some advice or share their experience on this issue.

I train three times a week. Currently I do no leg training (knee injury) so I work shoulders, chest, back, biceps and triceps.

I work my shoulders very hard; so hard in fact that by the end of my session they are fairly dead. This is holding back my training somewhat (or, it's not allowing me to train as hard as I'd like.)

To combat this I am considering working (some of) my shouders during my lunch break, as well as my chest.

I'd follow this up in the evening with my arms and back work, and the remainder of my shoulder work.

Obviously I'd eat a lot of food before, between and after my workout, with three protein shakes in total during the day.

So my day would look something like this:

9.00 - Porridge
12.00 - 1 x chicken breast, brown rice, some vegetables, protein shake
Workout - some shoulders and chest
14.00 - 2 x chicken breast, brown rice, some vegetables, protein shake
18.00 - 1 x chicken breast, cous cous, some vegetable
Workout - some shoulders, biceps, triceps, back
21:00 - 2 x chicken breast, cous cous, some vegetables
Sleep

As you can see, two workouts per day (first one is about 30 minutes long, the second one is about 60 minutes long.)

Is this sort of split workout a good idea? Any comments?

Thanks.

amazingemmet

If you are going to split your training up am/pm then its better to keep it so the same muscle group is worked in both sessions. So it has more days to recover. The generally reccomended way of doing this is having heavy type lifts in the morning session and more isolation type ones in the second session.

Ie for shoulders maybe 10sets fo 3reps on bb military press in the am

then say

one arm db seated press 3-4sets 10-12 reps
db lateral raises 3-4sets 12-15reps
face-pulls 3-4 sets of 12-15reps

make sense?

AARRRGH

Well, I do a full body workout in one session. I don't want to change this as I get good results and it allows me to have a normal life.

So basically what I want to do is instead of doing everything in a single two hour session, I'd like to do it over two small sessions, but still within the same day.

amazingemmet

Sounds like you are doing too much for your shoulders, Can you post up what you're doing in the two hour session?

AARRRGH

Sorry for the delayed reply. This is (roughly, I add/remove things every now and then) my upper body workout.

I use dumbells for everything.

Shoulders: shoulder press, lateral raise, upright raise
Chest: chest press, chest fly
Bicep: bicep curl, hammer curl
Tricep: dips, lying tricep extension, kickback
Back: bent over row

I use a combination of very heavy weight (~2 reps) and medium weight (<8 reps). I tend to do about 3 - 4 sets of each exercise, with a breather of about 60 seconds between sets. I also do a lot of weight stripping, depending on how I'm feeling that day.

I do very little cardio (I lose weight too easily) and very little lower back and stomach work.

I would consider my workout to be quite intense.

Cheers!

amazingemmet

I'm going to be blunt here, your program is sh!t real sh!t. There's too much redundant exercises, no balance to it, not enough back work, too many exercises that internally rotate your shoulder, your rep ranges if you're doing doubles and higher reps is not a good mix unless its thought out properly.

AARRRGH

I get great results from it though!

What would you change?

amazingemmet

If you have anything under two years serious training you'll get great results from any program.

Personally I'd change the whole thing. I'm feeling nice tonight so if you want I'll do you up a program

AARRRGH

Yes please, I'd be interested in seeing what I can improve.

amazingemmet

Ok can you post your goals,
weight
height
Can you lie on the floor with your arms over your head forearms on the floor and your back relxed not arched?
Can you touch the bottom of your shoulder blade with the opposite arm on each side?
Will you post a relaxed shot of you from the front? if you don't want to post it on the forum pm me it.

AARRRGH

Ah... I'm grand. I'm happy with what I'm doing. I didn't include my forearm work and lower back work as I don't do them every session. I get great results so it works.

Thanks for your replies anyway.

g'em

AARRRGH wrote: »

Ah... I'm grand. I'm happy with what I'm doing.

amazingemmet really knows his stuff. If he's generous enough to offer to look at shaking up your programme I'd take him up on it tbh.

amazingemmet wrote:

There's too much redundant exercises, no balance to it, not enough back work, too many exercises that internally rotate your shoulder

This would particularly worry me if it was said about a workout I was doing - just because you see results now, it doesn't mean it's the best course of action. Imbalanced programmes (esp in relation to shoulder work) can majorly fcuk you over at a later point in time.

He offered, accept it

AARRRGH

g'em wrote: »

Imbalanced programmes (esp in relation to shoulder work) can majorly fcuk you over at a later point in time.

OK. What kind of problems can it cause?

EDIT: I don't really see how my programme is totally imbalanced. The only areas I do little work on are my stomach and lower back (however I would not call either of these areas weak.)

Surely I am doing fairly standard exercises?

Reyman

I'd say Amaz is dead right, your programme is way out of kilter with anything I've ever seen. For a presumably slim guy who has trouble putting on weight I'd drop most of the fiddly exercises like kickbacks and lateral raises. If you're doing a full body session you're best to stick with compound exercises.

Also you're doing far more work on your shoulders than your back which doesn't make any sense. You have no pull down type exercise to balance the shoulder push exercises which long term will give you injury problems.

You seem to be doing more work on you triceps than on your chest - again this just does not make sense! If you're making progress on this programme you'll be a 'champ' on a decent routine

dannyd20

AARRRGH wrote: »

Ah... I'm grand. I'm happy with what I'm doing.

Sheesh, look a gift horse in the mouth why don't ya? :rolleyes:

Why post in the first place if you're going to ignore comments/advice anyway because 'you get great results' ??

As the saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and some ways are better than others. Be openminded when it comes to your training program, you might be surprised by the results.

AARRRGH

Reyman wrote: »

For a presumably slim guy who has trouble putting on weight I'd drop most of the fiddly exercises like kickbacks and lateral raises.

Well, I'm slim but I'm also 13 stone. I'm in good shape.

Reyman wrote: »

If you're making progress on this programme you'll be a 'champ' on a decent routine

I really am making great progress (very visible results every month - even with my focus on strength rather than size), but I will take your suggestions and increase chest and back work, and introduce some pulling type exercises to balance all the pushing stuff.

Thanks for the advice.

dannyd20 wrote: »

Sheesh, look a gift horse in the mouth why don't ya? :rolleyes:

If a stranger asks you for topless photos on the internet, do you comply? Seriously, try to have some perspective on things.

dannyd20 wrote: »

Why post in the first place if you're going to ignore comments/advice anyway because 'you get great results' ??

Did you even read my posts?

I am asking for opinions on splitting my workout over a single day.

You're a bit angry, don't you think? I have already said I am open to suggestions and improvements.

Arsenal1986

Listen to amazingemmet man seriously, I really really wouldnt advise splitting a workout over a day. Its fine to do maybe once in a while when things are hectic in life and you know youll be too busy over next coule of days to get to the gym then by all means you could train twice in the day but doing that week in week out is a surefire way to get injured,overtrained, stall out etc.....Just by your choice of some of the exercises your using Front Raises and Lateral Raises,Chest Press, Flyes its clear your quiet new to weight training?Really you would get so much out of a properly structured training program have a look at some of these links for more info;
www.defrancotraining.com
www.t-nation.com
www.teamtestforum.com

AARRRGH

Arsenal1986 wrote: »

Listen to amazingemmet man seriously, I really really wouldnt advise splitting a workout over a day. Its fine to do maybe once in a while when things are hectic in life and you know youll be too busy over next coule of days to get to the gym then by all means you could train twice in the day but doing that week in week out is a surefire way to get injured,overtrained, stall out etc.....Just by your choice of some of the exercises your using Front Raises and Lateral Raises,Chest Press, Flyes its clear your quiet new to weight training?Really you would get so much out of a properly structured training program have a look at some of these links for more info;
www.defrancotraining.com
www.t-nation.com
www.teamtestforum.com

Thanks for the reply. I'm not new to training (I used to be big into weights a few years ago) but I took a break for a while and I'm back at it.

I know my routine sounds a bit odd, but it really does work for me. As stated though, I am always open to improvement, and of course I want to maximise my time in the gym.

Part of my policy in the gym is I try to minimise the amount of exercises I dislike. The main reason for this is I try to keep my time in the gym as enjoyable and fun as possible. This ensures I see the gym as something I like doing, rather than something I have to do. Note though I do perform exercises I dislike, but generally only half of the time I'm in the gym.

I am not trying to develop a full bodybuilder physique, so I am happy with having some parts of my body underdeveloped and other parts overdeveloped by comparison.

My current physique could be described as a swimmers physique - strong arms, shoulders and upper back, with a slim, flat waist. I am happy with this. In general I am more interested in strength than size.

But I agree - there is always room for improvement. I'm a regular on t-nation but I don't know defrancotraining. I will check it out!

Cheers

Arsenal1986

Cool man no worries some great stuff on defrancos enjoy!:D

celestial

Given that Emmet is a gymnast since age 4 or something, only ever posts really constructive stuff and has the thumbs up from a competing powerlifter and all round studious boffin like g'em you really are looking a gift horse in the mouth - why would you ever not accept info from someone like that? Bottom line is everyone has something to learn. Plus based on the above what's with the stranger asking you for topless photos on internet comment?

Just because a programme is 'working' for you in terms of size/strength etc, does not mean it is optimal, or even that it is not going to cause you injury further down the line by its nature. Shoulders are nearly always the first body part to get injured and from what I can see you are doing too much shoulder work. Revising it like something like this would not be as excessive and more balanced imo:

Bench press/dips
Dbell rows
Shoulder press
Deadlift

Plus some assistance work now and again.

g'em

AARRRGH wrote: »

What kind of problems can it cause?

Essentially rotator cuff problems. This is why (I *think*) Emmet was getting you to try the flexibility exercises, to test what kind of range of motion you have in your shoulders.

Oh and fyi it's v. common for a trainer to request photos of clients to see postural weaknesses and imbalances, I've had to supply them many times myself.

AARRRGH

OK, I had no idea he was gymnast or a trainer or whatever (he didn't introduce himself as any of those things.) I think it is unfair to say I am ungrateful when I don't know who he is.

I'm not sure how I am expected to know who he is if he doesn't introduce himself. You know, this is the Internet so most people are fairly anonymous!

Anyway, enough of that.

I'll look into some of the suggestions I've gotten already, thanks.

amazingemmet

As an fyi the photo didn't need to be topless I just needed to see your shoulder and arm position in relation to your torso. If you don't want me to do a program thats fine, my advice for yours would be simple really for every exercise that you push away from the body have one that pulls towards it and for every one that pushes up (shoulder press) have one that pulls down.

As for spliting the training up I'd advise against it as it would be too much work and not enough recovery time if not thought out properly

AARRRGH

Balancing the pushing and pulling sounds sensible. I will look into that.

Cheers.