The JCR: A disgrace

Cantab.

I have to say that the common room facilities for undergrads are pretty poor.

Given that there are so many undergraduates, we should probably have several common rooms: JF, SF, JS and SS common rooms with a much more civilised atmosphere, quiet study areas and recreation areas (snooker, table tennis, chess, cards, table fussball, etc.)

I get the feeling that the undergrads are pushed out into the cold and have nowhere to go. They traips around college with their bags on their backs all day, with continual visits between lockers and baggage rooms. Most departments see undergraduates as pests who should be kept out of the research areas as much as possible. I see no harm in having small groups of undergrads scattered around departments -- just as long as they don't make too much noise! Allowing undergrads into the tea and coffee areas, study areas and providing them with small spaces they can interact in would be a healthy step forward IMO. Imagine if undergrads, postgrads and staff would largely know each other by name: a self-reinforcing community of people with common intellectual interests.

The Graduates' Common room ain't bad, but it's still rather scruffy (despite the rennovation). The new couches from Ikea or wherever are just awful and the room has obviously seen better days. The removal of that awful kitchen is a huge improvement.

Senior Common room is good, although I've only been in it on a couple of occasions and have varying degrees of recollection.

ShoulderChip

thanks for that, anything else to share?

ShoulderChip

ShoulderChip wrote: »

thanks for that, anything else to share?

He does actually make some good points, particularly on the UG part.

AlanSparrowhawk

I would totally agree with everything your man says. I'm not sure how feasble this is though... How does it work in Cambridge and Oxford? Each college has its own common rooms? Obviously much less people per college there.

From my own experiences I was in a 400 student (Science) 1st year with teaching from a number of departments (almost 20) and I never felt any sense of belonging to any particular one. It was very difficult to develop a relationship with staff or post-grads or gain any kind of understanding of what goes on in the departments.

However JS and SS we were split into respective departments of about 20 students and it was much better and we had access to some of the departmental facilites. Genetics for example have their own undergraduate computer room and a open altrium /eating area.

Podge_irl

AlanSparrowhawk wrote: »

I would totally agree with everything your man says. I'm not sure how feasble this is though... How does it work in Cambridge and Oxford? Each college has its own common rooms? Obviously much less people per college there.

Yup. Generally each college has a JCR (undergrad) and an MCR (graduate). These are more than just rooms mind you, they are essentially like societies and organise events etc. so that members of the college can get to know each other. But as you say, the largest college has maybe 600 undergraduates - and most have far fewer.

Scarinae

Isn't that the kind of thing the SU will be addressing when negotiating a student centre? I think they've already sent out a survey to see what facilities people want included in it

Cantab.

This idea of a "student centre" isn't thought through enough. The students driving the idea are completely ignorant of the precedents set by many a great student gone by. They need to re-align themselves to the polarity set by the College's 400 year history: you cannot work against the field, no matter how much momentum the populist ignorami manage to generate.

We don't want a piss-up hall only to be treated like cattle. Nor do we want a glorified student play pen where the emphasis is entirely non-intellectual. I mean the GMB has deteriorated into a comfortable place to "make out" with your bird and I wouldn't be surprised if an orgy were to emerge some hot Spring day.

I don't see why the tradition of the JCR can't be built upon and re-invigorated in a modern context.

Compartmentalizing all student activities into a shoddy and uninspiring building in the most desolate part of campus, complete with 24-hour surveillance would suit many a bureaucrat.

Be careful what you wish for.

Crash

Cantab. wrote: »

This idea of a "student centre" isn't thought through enough. The students driving the idea are completely ignorant of the precedents set by many a great student gone by. They need to re-align themselves to the polarity set by the College's 400 year history: you cannot work against the field, no matter how much momentum the populist ignorami manage to generate.

You do realise that that sentence says a lot of things while saying essentially nothing at all, right? I mean, I agree with you on this, though to be honest i'd disagree with segregation by standing, and instead put a focus on departments providing JCR's for undergraduate collaboration (or hell, even just a place to sit and have a chat, as a collective area), but at the same time what you've stated there makes it very unclear as to exactly where you'd see it going.

Cantab.

Going Forward wrote: »

You do realise that that sentence says a lot of things while saying essentially nothing at all, right? I mean, I agree with you on this, though to be honest i'd disagree with segregation by standing, and instead put a focus on departments providing JCR's for undergraduate collaboration (or hell, even just a place to sit and have a chat, as a collective area), but at the same time what you've stated there makes it very unclear as to exactly where you'd see it going.

I think departments (or "schools"/"vice-deaneries" as they insist on calling them now) facilitating undergraduates in this manner would set a dangerous precedent in that, it goes against the grain of the collegiate tradition. I'm all for undergrads interacting more with their departmental peers and having somewhere where they can discuss/drink tea/study, but this discussion is more about rejuvenating students' collegiate identities. JCRs should be College-wide.

I don't know exactly where I see all this going. Oxbridge pride themselves in making their JCRs and MCRs the best they can be and there's a great inter-college rivalry to have the most luxurious and best facilities. One thing's for certain; the ground floor of Goldsmith Hall (poor Goldsmith) is a disgrace and typical of the general attitude towards students.

I think we should maintain the JCR in Goldsmith and in Tit Hall, but expand the network across campus: e.g. make JCR Goldsmith for JF students and somewhere like the Senior Lecturer's Office in House 27 (which used to be a tea room) a JCR for SS students.

What about that dis-used old house opposite the Westin? That would be a really cool hang-out joint. It's a complete mystery to me -- perhaps it's used for Masonic rituals?

godtabh

Cantab. wrote: »

I think we should maintain the JCR in Goldsmith and in Tit Hall, but expand the network across campus: e.g. make JCR Goldsmith for JF students and somewhere like the Senior Lecturer's Office in House 27 (which used to be a tea room) a JCR for SS students.

What about that dis-used old house opposite the Westin? That would be a really cool hang-out joint. It's a complete mystery to me -- perhaps it's used for Masonic rituals?

Why segregate students from different years?

Cantab.

kearnsr wrote: »

Why segregate students from different years?

I agree.

The reason I would do this is because there are so many students in Trinity. Common rooms should be intimate places -- if they get too large, they become glorified canteens.

Also some 22 year-olds do not necessarily want to listen to 18 year-old, ugg-boot wearing hyenas giggling away about frivolous things.

Yes allow inter-mingling, but on a "members and their guests" basis.

Crash

Well actually, under the current system, with the idea that CR's as well as providing the whole collegiate identity structure (which is nowhere near as possible in Trinity due to the size compared with the seperate smaller colleges of the Oxbridge uni's), surely the other aim of inter-course/department exchange of ideas would be to have school common rooms? Or faculties, or whatever provides the best middle ground for viability? It would essentially allow a free and open meeting place, where there is a rough structured common interest within the school.

Cantab.

Good points.

This discussion is largely academic.

I'd be very wary of tinkering too much with the college tradition.

The beauty of the collegiate system is that you get to interact with people from all backgrounds on a daily basis. I don't think restricting people's mindset to inside their own department is a good idea. In fact, it goes against the grain of the College's history.

Case in point: the Medical School. They've created their own identity separate from everyone else and effectively cut themselves off from the rest of college. They maintain this ridiculous air of superiority and dip in and out when it suits them. The Dental school are almost as bad. I mean, when was the last time you bumped into a dentistry student in the Dining Hall or met one at the Phil? They've effectively got their own College over at Lincoln Place and fly their corporate flag (complete with "logo") with pride on a daily basis.

Scarinae

I thought the collegiate system was largely based on which residences you live in (as an undergraduate anyway)

Anyway, that is besides the point. Why don't you take it up with the SU if you have good ideas? They have suggestion boxes all over campus. They are organising the student centre, whether you like it or not, so you might as well give them your input

Podge_irl

The beauty of the collegiate system is that you get to interact with people from all backgrounds on a daily basis. I don't think restricting people's mindset to inside their own department is a good idea. In fact, it goes against the grain of the College's history.

The collegiate system is certainly more suited to this (though it is by no means without its flaws), but Trinity simply doesnt have a collegiate system and nothing can be done about that now. I think segragating common rooms by year is silly - you need people from later years running the thing so that its not starting afresh every single year. Seperating by faculty/school whatever is also not ideal obviously, though it would be a start. The JCR as a place is not really any worse then any of the MCRs I've come across here, but its very hard for it to act as a common ground for all university students in the same manner as here because there are simply too many students. If there is to be a proper system of CRs they are going to have to be split along some lines.

Cantab.

Fishie wrote: »

I thought the collegiate system was largely based on which residences you live in (as an undergraduate anyway)

Anyway, that is besides the point. Why don't you take it up with the SU if you have good ideas? They have suggestion boxes all over campus. They are organising the student centre, whether you like it or not, so you might as well give them your input

Lol. I wouldn't waste my time. I have no respect for an organisation who mock religous persons and attempt to force their agenda on the general student populace.

The SU are not representative of Trinity students a: nobody votes, b: nobody cares about Coke bans, c: most students are not homosexuals and pill-popping away at Ents events, d: most students think the SU disgrace the College with their mystery bus trips down the country, e: the University Record is indicative of their lack of talent, f: nobody in College cares about national student politics and general USI wankology, etc. The SU should concentrate on presenting serious student issues to the College Board and abandon their cringe-worthy antics and general bad behaviour. Until they cop themselves on and abandon their flawed ideologies, I have no time for them whatsoever.

I hope the idiots walk into the mouse trap and find themselves in the middle of some non-descript office in the Luce Hall like a bunch of complete goons.

We should have a separate election for the student Board member. There's no reason why the SU should control this position.

By the way, I think that GSU Hodson fellow is very good.

Boston

would you ever piss off.

Cantab.

Boston wrote: »

would you ever piss off.

:pac:

Boston

Cantab. wrote: »

By the way, I think that GSU Hodson fellow is very good.

I have to say, that is priceless.

Scarinae

Cantab. wrote: »

Lol. I wouldn't waste my time. I have no respect for an organisation who mock religous persons and attempt to force their agenda on the general student populace.

The SU are not representative of Trinity students a: nobody votes, b: nobody cares about Coke bans, c: most students are not homosexuals and pill-popping away at Ents events, d: most students think the SU disgrace the College with their mystery bus trips down the country, e: the University Record is indicative of their lack of talent, f: nobody in College cares about national student politics and general USI wankology, etc. The SU should concentrate on presenting serious student issues to the College Board and abandon they're cringe-worthy antics and general bad behaviour. Until they cop themselves on and abandon their flawed ideologies, I have no time for them whatsoever.

I hope the idiots walk into the mouse trap and find themselves in the middle of some non-descript office in the Luce Hall like a bunch of complete goons.

We should have a separate election for the student Board member. There's no reason why the SU should control this position.

By the way, I think that GSU Hodson fellow is very good.

Um, I'm not sure what you mean by mocking religious persons, or why you seem to think they're a bunch of pill-popping homosexuals. What basis do you have for thinking that most students think they are a disgrace? As for them not being representative of Trinity students, whose fault is that? If you don't vote in the elections or get involved in any way, you can't turn around and complain about them

I said already, whether you like it or not, they are the ones organising the student centre. Whatever your feelings about the SU, this is a fact. So, if you have suggestions, you should tell them. You're certainly not going to get anything done by whinging on an internet message board.

starn

Cantab. wrote: »

What about that dis-used old house opposite the Westin? That would be a really cool hang-out joint. It's a complete mystery to me -- perhaps it's used for Masonic rituals?

Anyone know what exactly is in there

Cantab.

Fishie wrote: »

Um, I'm not sure what you mean by mocking religious persons, or why you seem to think they're a bunch of pill-popping homosexuals. What basis do you have for thinking that most students think they are a disgrace? As for them not being representative of Trinity students, whose fault is that? If you don't vote in the elections or get involved in any way, you can't turn around and complain about them

I said already, whether you like it or not, they are the ones organising the student centre. Whatever your feelings about the SU, this is a fact. So, if you have suggestions, you should tell them. You're certainly not going to get anything done by whinging on an internet message board.

Lol.

The Fellows and the College Board are under no obligation to give one penny to the SU. In fact, they've had to come to the rescue on a number of occasions and sort out the mess, while the previous officers have abandoned ship and skipped off to the next level of their failed political careers.

If the SU goons had their way, they'd have raves every night of the week, daily STD/pill clinics and a never-ending stream of political brainwashing initiatives dressed up as "awareness" campaigns.

Scarinae

Cantab. wrote: »

Lol.

The Fellows and the College Board are under no obligation to give one penny to the SU.

If the SU goons had their way, they'd have raves every night of the week, daily STD/pill clinics and a never-ending stream of political brainwashing initiatives dressed up as "awareness" campaigns.

So you could do a better job of organising a student centre? And what basis have you got for any of your remarks about the SU in this post, or in the last one (I noticed that you conveniently ignored me highlighting certain comments of yours)

PurpleFistMixer

I usually just hang out in society rooms, but that's assuming one is a member of the society, and they're pretty small in general. The JCR is alright... could do with more sofas, and I seriously doubt anyone but east-end students use it, so maybe something more central that everyone could use would be better, but honestly, expecting all of the undergraduates to use the one common room would be pretty insane, so it makes sense to have regionalised common rooms. Not differentiating on the basis of what course or year or anything, simply... "here is somewhere to hang out if you're in this part of the college". Because I certainly know there's nothing I loathe more than having to walk to house 6.

Scarinae

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

I usually just hang out in society rooms, but that's assuming one is a member of the society, and they're pretty small in general. The JCR is alright... could do with more sofas, and I seriously doubt anyone but east-end students use it, so maybe something more central that everyone could use would be better, but honestly, expecting all of the undergraduates to use the one common room would be pretty insane, so it makes sense to have regionalised common rooms. Not differentiating on the basis of what course or year or anything, simply... "here is somewhere to hang out if you're in this part of the college". Because I certainly know there's nothing I loathe more than having to walk to house 6.

I think you have a good point, if they were putting common rooms across campus they shouldn't be differentiated, cos not everybody wants to hang out just with their year or their course. I mean, I spent many an hour when I was in second year on the pharmacy couches, even though I'm not a pharmacy student

godtabh

Cantab. wrote: »

I agree.

Also some 22 year-olds do not necessarily want to listen to 18 year-old, ugg-boot wearing hyenas giggling away about frivolous things.

Cantab. wrote: »

The beauty of the collegiate system is that you get to interact with people from all backgrounds on a daily basis. I don't think restricting people's mindset to inside their own department is a good idea.

Cantab. wrote: »

Lol. I wouldn't waste my time. I have no respect for an organisation who mock religous persons and attempt to force their agenda on the general student populace.

The SU are not representative of Trinity students a: nobody votes, b: nobody cares about Coke bans, c: most students are not homosexuals and pill-popping away at Ents events, d:

Sonds to me that you already have a mind set where people you dont want in a CR are to be segregated to do there own thing.

Sounds like your mind set is already restricted.

Mark200

Going Forward wrote: »

Well actually, under the current system, with the idea that CR's as well as providing the whole collegiate identity structure (which is nowhere near as possible in Trinity due to the size compared with the seperate smaller colleges of the Oxbridge uni's), surely the other aim of inter-course/department exchange of ideas would be to have school common rooms? Or faculties, or whatever provides the best middle ground for viability? It would essentially allow a free and open meeting place, where there is a rough structured common interest within the school.

You said intercourse :pac:

Cantab. wrote: »

Lol. I wouldn't waste my time. I have no respect for an organisation who mock religous persons and attempt to force their agenda on the general student populace.

The SU are not representative of Trinity students a: nobody votes, b: nobody cares about Coke bans, c: most students are not homosexuals and pill-popping away at Ents events, d: most students think the SU disgrace the College with their mystery bus trips down the country, e: the University Record is indicative of their lack of talent, f: nobody in College cares about national student politics and general USI wankology, etc. The SU should concentrate on presenting serious student issues to the College Board and abandon their cringe-worthy antics and general bad behaviour. Until they cop themselves on and abandon their flawed ideologies, I have no time for them whatsoever.

I hope the idiots walk into the mouse trap and find themselves in the middle of some non-descript office in the Luce Hall like a bunch of complete goons.

We should have a separate election for the student Board member. There's no reason why the SU should control this position.

By the way, I think that GSU Hodson fellow is very good.

Just when you were doing so well......

As said, I don't see the point coming on here telling us what needs to be done with the JCR, coming up with many ideas and then not going and telling the people who actually make the decisions.

If you don't agree with what the SU are doing then go to their meetings and try change it.

You could be like Obama, except I doubt many people will vote for you

goingnowhere

Cantab. wrote: »

The SU are not representative of Trinity students a: nobody votes,

Fully agree with that the promotion of the elections is flawed, unless you pass through the Hamilton or Arts daily you won't see any sign of an election ongoing. The sports charge was rammed through only 2000 odd voted and there was a push by DUCAC to gets its people out which clearly biased the result.

GSU managed to arrange some class of electronic voting last time around. SU with all their hot air still nothing

b: nobody cares about Coke bans,

It really questions what the SU's mandate is, its to the current student body, no one else. Not forgetting the fashion of banning things has really hurt the SU's bottom line

c: most students are not homosexuals and pill-popping away at Ents events,

Most of just want to do a bit of work and have a few drinks with mates. What ever happened to the College Alcohol policy about events without drink?

d: most students think the SU disgrace the College with their mystery bus trips down the country,

This is probably the most valid point of all, total breech of College policies far too many to list. It really send out a very bad image

e: the University Record is indicative of their lack of talent,

To be fair the Trinity News is nowhere as good as it was in its golden age back 5-6 years back so its a general collapse not something specific to the Record

f: nobody in College cares about national student politics and general USI wankology, etc. The SU should concentrate on presenting serious student issues to the College Board and abandon their cringe-worthy antics and general bad behaviour. Until they cop themselves on and abandon their flawed ideologies, I have no time for them whatsoever.

Just remember you are not obliged to pay the USI charge and if everyone refused the SU has no come back on us, College will still let you register

Serious questions should be asked of where all the capitation is going. The SU get a payment based on 15k students, curiously they get capitation for all the postgrads as well what gives?

Cantab.

goingnowhere wrote: »

Just remember you are not obliged to pay the USI charge and if everyone refused the SU has no come back on us, College will still let you register

I know. I went to great lengths to get this impolite number removed from my fees invoice (even though I wasn't paying for it).

Cantab.

Mark200 wrote: »

You said intercourse :pac:



Just when you were doing so well......

As said, I don't see the point coming on here telling us what needs to be done with the JCR, coming up with many ideas and then not going and telling the people who actually make the decisions.

If you don't agree with what the SU are doing then go to their meetings and try change it.

You could be like Obama, except I doubt many people will vote for you

I don't care what the SU get up to at their little meetings (nor do most students given the "election" turn-out).

What does bother me is that the Fellows allow an organisation with a dubious track-record to propose the student board member.

The GSU at least are some-what intellectual and have moved away from this promiscuity-pack and "awareness campaign" mentality. They publish a journal, organise respectable gatherings (such as walks in Howth or wine receptions), operate a decent enough common room, talk serious business at Board meetings and are a gateway for employers looking to employ trustworthy students on a casual basis.

The SU are nothing more than a gateway for the Trinity Arch Hotel looking to organise €3 a drink piss-ups on a Tuesday night.

godtabh

Cantab. wrote: »

I don't care what the SU get up to at their little meetings (nor do most students given the "election" turn-out).

Then you shouldnt be allowed to bitch about it

Cantab.

Cantab. wrote: »

I don't care what the SU get up to at their little meetings (nor do most students given the "election" turn-out).

What does bother me is that the Fellows allow an organisation with a dubious track-record to propose the student board member.

The GSU at least are some-what intellectual and have moved away from this promiscuity-pack and "awareness campaign" mentality. They publish a journal, organise respectable gatherings (such as walks in Howth or wine receptions), operate a decent enough common room, talk serious business at Board meetings and are a gateway for employers looking to employ trustworthy students on a casual basis.

The SU are nothing more than a gateway for the Trinity Arch Hotel looking to organise €3 a drink piss-ups on a Tuesday night.

kearnsr wrote: »

Then you shouldnt be allowed to bitch about it

Nor should someone who has played a pivotal role in the deterioration of their organisation be allowed to bitch at a College Board meeting in the name of the general student populace.

godtabh

Cantab. wrote: »

Nor should someone who has played a pivotal role in the deterioration of their organisation be allowed to bitch at a College Board meeting in the name of the general student populace.

But at least they are participating. You cant have it both was, You either do something about it or put up and shut up

Cantab.

kearnsr wrote: »

But at least they are participating. You cant have it both was, You either do something about it or put up and shut up

No. The College simply take away the rep and have elections separate from the SU.

A few more years of the current trend, and that's the way it's going to go.

Pet

Cantab, I really really love how you love the current GSU president.

Perhaps you should look into the society on whose committee he sits. Still have the same opinion?

Thought not.

AlanSparrowhawk

oh that hodson? that chap's a dote.

do any of the universities in ireland do it better than tcd wrt common areas?

godtabh

Pet wrote: »

Cantab, I really really love how you love the current GSU president.

Perhaps you should look into the society on whose committee he sits. Still have the same opinion?

Thought not.

Whats this all about?

Boston

It's not really fair to be discussing the personal life or privately held views of the chap, especially as they don't relate to, nor interfere with, his position within the GSU.

John

Sounds like TCD has really changed. Where were all these pill-popping orgies organised by the SU a few years ago? I just remember occassional music nights and table quizes. How things change!

godtabh

Boston wrote: »

It's not really fair to be discussing the personal life or privately held views of the chap, especially as they don't relate to, nor interfere with, his position within the GSU.

Wait he is in the GSU?

Boston

kearnsr wrote: »

Wait he is in the GSU?

Ronan Hodson is president of the GSU and the person too whom Pet is making reference.

caffrey

John wrote: »

Sounds like TCD has really changed. Where were all these pill-popping orgies organised by the SU a few years ago? I just remember occassional music nights and table quizzes. How things change!

I Think there are actually very few on campus table quizzes etc in comparison to maybe 4 years ago. ever since the buttery got its revamp there have been no football matches shown, few if any gigs, few table quizzes, blah blah blah, which leaves the piss ups etc, I am not sure about the pill-popping orgies but I think they are refering to .......better read the stickies.

godtabh

Boston wrote: »

Ronan Hodson is president of the GSU and the person too whom Pet is making reference.

Makes no sense to me

godtabh

caffrey wrote: »

, few if any gigs,

werent these banned after some drunken fights a couple of years ago (maybe 4-6 years ago)

Pet

Makes no sense to me

Sigh. Let's play reading comprehension, shall we?

Take Cantab., holder of some ridiculously outdated views, and an individual who is alarmingly bereft of critical thinking skills in certain areas. When it comes to certain types of individual [let's just say, for ****s and giggles, homosexuals], in particular, he is quite outspokenly moronic.

Then,

Cantab. wrote:

By the way, I think that GSU Hodson fellow is very good.

Pet wrote:

Cantab, I really really love how you love the current GSU president.

Perhaps you should look into the society on whose committee he sits. Still have the same opinion?

Also,

Boston wrote:

It's not really fair to be discussing the personal life or privately held views of the chap, especially as they don't relate to, nor interfere with, his position within the GSU.

I haven't discussed or even mentioned anything that isn't knowledge in the public domain or which a quick Google wouldn't proffer.

Agent Smith

John wrote: »

Sounds like TCD has really changed. Where were all these pill-popping orgies organised by the SU a few years ago? I just remember occassional music nights and table quizes. How things change!

They musnt have liked us John, we never heard of them

godtabh

Pet wrote: »

Sigh. Let's play reading comprehension, shall we?

Take Cantab., holder of some ridiculously outdated views, and an individual who is alarmingly bereft of critical thinking skills in certain areas. When it comes to certain types of individual [let's just say, for ****s and giggles, homosexuals], in particular, he is quite outspokenly moronic.

Then,





Also,



I haven't discussed or even mentioned anything that isn't knowledge in the public domain or which a quick Google wouldn't proffer.

With out knowing the people how was any one supposed to figure that out?

Pet

By reading the thread. And perhaps a quick Google of the people involved. Surely that's not beyond you?

John

Agent Smith wrote: »

They musnt have liked us John, we never heard of them

Must have been an "everyone that doesn't hang out on the top floor of house 6" party. Bastards.

Boston

Pet wrote: »

I haven't discussed or even mentioned anything that isn't knowledge in the public domain or which a quick Google wouldn't proffer.

Didn't say you did pet, in fact I didn't even quote you, so its beyond me how you took my comment to be referencing you. From kearnsr's question it did look like the discussion was going that way though, hence my response.

Regardless, just because information is in the public domain doesn't mean it should be open for general discussion. How much information about your private life would be returned by a quick google search?

Jimdw

I like brining my own food in JCR. Don't like their service besides the tables they provide. I've seen some nasty things while they were doing their rolls. :-O