Any chance of non-religious stamps ffs

Zamboni

I bought a book of stamps in my local post office today and walking up the road I opened them to find baby jesus wriggling in his nest on each of them. :rolleyes:
I had to go back and ask did they have any others.
'But they're Christmas stamps' said the Post Office Teller. I said 'Great, any chance of a few snowmen instead?' No, they're the only ones we have other than the normal stamps.
So I got a book of normal stamps and said 'It's a disgrace they're still putting religious icons on the stamps of this state'. She said we were Catholic country. I said, we were as in past tense and walked out.

Call me pedantic, call me scrooge but what a crock of s**t that they still do this. Surely they could just use non-religious christmas stamps with snowmen, snow landscape, polar bears drinking coke etc.?

This type of thing makes me want to attend this Atheist Assoc thingy tomorrow.

Fanny Cradock

Well done for completely over-reacting to a collection of stamps released for Christmas - a Christian holiday. Fight da powa!

I'd suggest hoarding stamps throughout the year so you wont be affronted by such terrible things again. Oh, wait! They already have non-religious stamps.

jhegarty

So you have a choice of Christmas stamps or normal stamps but you want non-religious Christmas stamps ?

Are you not just getting offended for the sake of it...

Galvasean

There are more important things to get worked up over than stamps.

Zamboni

It'd take more to offend me to be honest.
Its just retarded that an office of the state produces anything religious anymore.
Its one small point in a very big picture.

Even got a mention from the lads...

Section 3.18

http://irishhumanism.org/resources/HAIDialogueGov_070705.pdf

Micky Dolenz

Zamboni wrote: »

I bought a book of stamps in my local post office today and walking up the road I opened them to find baby jesus wriggling in his nest on each of them. :rolleyes:
I had to go back and ask did they have any others.
'But they're Christmas stamps' said the Post Office Teller. I said 'Great, any chance of a few snowmen instead?' No, they're the only ones we have other than the normal stamps.
So I got a book of normal stamps and said 'It's a disgrace they're still putting religious icons on the stamps of this state'. She said we were Catholic country. I said, we were as in past tense and walked out.

Call me pedantic, call me scrooge but what a crock of s**t that they still do this. Surely they could just use non-religious christmas stamps with snowmen, snow landscape, polar bears drinking coke etc.?


This type of thing makes me want to attend this Atheist Assoc thingy tomorrow.

Your gas.

It is Christmas Season, so You will see a lot of the baby Christ, (the hint is the name really)

Oh and you are pedantic

Fanny Cradock

Zamboni wrote: »

It'd take more to offend me to be honest.
Its just retarded that an office of the state produces anything religious anymore.
Its one small point in a very big picture.

Really, you can only but laugh away the intolerance. Very amusing

jhegarty

I am offended by birds, where can i get stamps without one on it ?

Micky Dolenz

jhegarty wrote: »

I am offended by birds, where can i get stamps without one on it ?

Funny that, birds seem quite offended by me :pac:

Hivemind187

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Well done for completely over-reacting to a collection of stamps released for Christmas - a Christian holiday. Fight da powa!

I'd suggest hoarding stamps throughout the year so you wont be affronted by such terrible things again. Oh, wait! They already have non-religious stamps.

I'm going to keep a list of how often you miss the sodding point.

Secular state with no provision of protection for a specific theology + putting images unique to that theology on official state stationary = abuse of power by the government of that nation.

I'm paying for this stuff to be designed and I dont remember being asked if they could slap the sacred images of a death cult on the national correspondence. Innocuous things like snowmen etc would reflect the fact that christmas is celebrated less as a specific rleigious holiday these days but more as an excuse to relax, have a knees up and generally enjoy yourself for 48 hours out of the year.

Sorry that we terrible non-believers have hijacked your holiday but in fairness you guys didnt exactly worry about thieving it from the pagans you were happily burning at the stake.

... And yes, it is sillyto get upset over this kind of thing but its even more silly to think it's ok to defend it.

cooperguy

Hivemind187 wrote: »

I'm going to keep a list of how often you miss the sodding point.

Secular state with no provision of protection for a specific theology + putting images unique to that theology on official state stationary = abuse of power by the government of that nation.

I'm paying for this stuff to be designed and I dont remember being asked if they could slap the sacred images of a death cult on the national correspondence. Innocuous things like snowmen etc would reflect the fact that christmas is celebrated less as a specific rleigious holiday these days but more as an excuse to relax, have a knees up and generally enjoy yourself for 48 hours out of the year.

Sorry that we terrible non-believers have hijacked your holiday but in fairness you guys didnt exactly worry about thieving it from the pagans you were happily burning at the stake.

... And yes, it is sillyto get upset over this kind of thing but its even more silly to think it's ok to defend it.

Luckily your not the only person in the state. Therefore nobody gives a toss what you want its what a majority want (or dont mind - alot of people dont care whats on the stamps). At the end of the day it is a religous/christian event and wouldnt have existed without them. Lets not bury your head in the sand and pretend its anything else.

I suppose you's like us all to go around and start calling it the "Holidays" next!

Zamboni

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Really, you can only but laugh away the intolerance. Very amusing

I am intolerant that a modern state where I pay taxes produces relgious art on a stamp.
You find that laughable. Good for you.
I don't. Its a symptom (albeit a small one) of the archaic hold that an idiotic religion has on this country.

They must have updated that stamp to be more fitting in the current climate.
He looks strangely white and fat for a Jewish child from the middle east.

eoin5

Cant you look at it like halloween? It used to be some kind of religious thing going back years ago but for most its a different sort of event now. For me christmas time is about family and the baby jesus story is a nice family story, even if its entirely bogus.

PDN

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Secular state with no provision of protection for a specific theology + putting images unique to that theology on official state stationary = abuse of power by the government of that nation.

Which secular state are you referring to? Surely not the Republic of Ireland whose Constitution begins with the following preamble:

BUNREACHT NA h&#201 wrote: »

In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,
We, the people of Éire, Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our
Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial, Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation, And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity,
so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations, Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution.

I agree that Ireland should be a secular state, but it is not. Maybe you should start by challenging the Constitution rather than complaining about stamps?

Fanny Cradock

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Secular state with no provision of protection for a specific theology + putting images unique to that theology on official state stationary = abuse of power by the government of that nation.

I'm paying for this stuff to be designed and I dont remember being asked if they could slap the sacred images of a death cult on the national correspondence. Innocuous things like snowmen etc would reflect the fact that christmas is celebrated less as a specific rleigious holiday these days but more as an excuse to relax, have a knees up and generally enjoy yourself for 48 hours out of the year.

Sorry that we terrible non-believers have hijacked your holiday but in fairness you guys didnt exactly worry about thieving it from the pagans you were happily burning at the stake.

... And yes, it is sillyto get upset over this kind of thing but its even more silly to think it's ok to defend it.

An Post is a Limited Liability Company that answers to the Minister for Finance. It has been tasked with providing a service to the State and and is expected to be run as an efficient, profitable business. The increased quantities of mail attributed to the Christmas rush is part and parcel (boom, boom!) of running a profitable business. Therefore, on a purely business level, I see no reason why An Post should forgo potential profit by not catering to public association of Christmas with Christ. Why maybe they should consider moving into other secular events and religious holidays. I won't be stopping them.

Apparently you feel quite strongly that the state is abusing it's power by protecting Christianity (we are talking about stamps, right?). I suggest you take your bitter protests to the streets.

Galvasean

PDN wrote: »

I agree that Ireland should be a secular state, but it is not. Maybe you should start by challenging the Constitution rather than complaining about stamps?

First we take back the stamps...
Then we go for the Irish Constitution...
Then the world!!!!!!

condra

Wait till you see the stamps next year.

Zamboni

womoma wrote: »

Wait till you see the stamps next year.

LOL

Don't start me...

The Mad Hatter

Hivemind187 wrote: »

I'm going to keep a list of how often you miss the sodding point.

Secular state with no provision of protection for a specific theology + putting images unique to that theology on official state stationary = abuse of power by the government of that nation.

I'm paying for this stuff to be designed and I dont remember being asked if they could slap the sacred images of a death cult on the national correspondence. Innocuous things like snowmen etc would reflect the fact that christmas is celebrated less as a specific rleigious holiday these days but more as an excuse to relax, have a knees up and generally enjoy yourself for 48 hours out of the year.

Sorry that we terrible non-believers have hijacked your holiday but in fairness you guys didnt exactly worry about thieving it from the pagans you were happily burning at the stake.

... And yes, it is sillyto get upset over this kind of thing but its even more silly to think it's ok to defend it.

If anyone kicks up a fuss about it you'll get heaps of old sots and fools writing to the nationals about POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAAAD, and if I hear that idiotic phrase one more time I will actually punch the person who says it.

Sorry, I may be venting...

condra

I'm tempted to get into a funny photoshop war, but it would only end up with a stamp with a picture of Mohammad with a bomb on his head, and that never ends well.

Galvasean

womoma wrote: »

I'm tempted to get into a funny photoshop war, but it would only end up with a stamp with a picture of Mohammad with a bomb on his head, and that never ends well.

*incites hatred*

Do it.

Dades

Next year let's campaign for Satanic Slut stamps!

Dades

womoma wrote: »

I'm tempted to get into a funny photoshop war, but it would only end up with a stamp with a picture of Mohammad with a bomb on his head, and that never ends well.

You're right - it's wouldn't end well.

condra

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAAAD[/B]

"That is political correctness gone mad."
I've been thinking about this recently. It's one of those terms that can be used for good or evil. And the same can be said for the opposite term, which might be something like:
"this is a secular country".

What I mean is, I think both arguments can be used by fanatics or bigots, who can twist them for their own purpose, for example the Christian who wants the hijab banned because "this is a secular country", but doesn't want to see the nativity play banned because that would be "political correctness gone mad".

Sorry, that wasn't explained very well. Hopefully someone will get my point.

Spyral

Its CHRISTmas.

If you have an issue just get normal ones.

I'm against the death penalty but some people should be killed for the torture they inflict via bullsh*t...

Galvasean

Spyral wrote: »

I'm against the death penalty but some people should be killed for the torture they inflict via bullsh*t...

Hypocrite.

The Mad Hatter

womoma wrote: »

"That is political correctness gone mad."

*punches*

Nothing personal, sorry.

I've been thinking about this recently. It's one of those terms that can be used for good or evil. And the same can be said for the opposite term, which might be something like:
"this is a secular country".

What I mean is, I think both arguments can be used by fanatics or bigots, who can twist them for their own purpose, for example the Christian who wants the hijab banned because "this is a secular country", but doesn't want to see the nativity play banned because that would be "political correctness gone mad".

Sorry, that wasn't explained very well. Hopefully someone will get my point.

Yeah, you have a point. According to one of the Google results I just got before I got bored reading, the phrase is more frequently used by the right. (Hardly surprising.)

condra

Spyral wrote: »

Its CHRISTmas.

It's the winter solstice.

Looking at this thread earlier reminded me I needed to get some cards and stamps pronto. I asked for Christmas stamps specifically.

The only thing that shoked me was the price.

I do like An Post's ads at the minute - the moment you send a card it's Christmas.

condra

This is the most relaxed thread round here in ages.

Better stir some emotions up...

ok...





Also.. NSFW! (explicit language-you've been warned)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYvB25-qPK4
^I love the superimposition of the torture victims between shots of Pats face^

SAVE_ME.222

Surely the OP is some sort of windup no.. ?

brianthebard

This must be what happens when white people find out no one is oppressing them...

Zillah

jhegarty wrote: »

So you have a choice of Christmas stamps or normal stamps but you want non-religious Christmas stamps ?

This comment really clinched it for me. I'm going to be untypically tolerant here and say that its just some bloody stamps get over it. Yes, technically I don't like seeing the State show preference for any religion but it's just some stamps in the middle of their holiday.

And PDN is absolutely correct about the constitution. It is indeed filled with Theistic nonesense. I'm embarassed by our constitution to be quite honest.

Micky Dolenz

brianthebard wrote: »

This must be what happens when white people find out no one is oppressing them...

, that made me laugh. Do you mind if I use that one?:D

brianthebard

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

, that made me laugh. Do you mind if I use that one?:D

Just remember to reference my post correctly.

robindch

Zillah wrote: »

And PDN is absolutely correct about the constitution. It is indeed filled with Theistic nonesense. I'm embarassed by our constitution to be quite honest.

Likewise.

The 1922 Constitution was a liberal document, and seems to my eyes, a much better document than the than the unashamedly conservative and pro-catholic one of 1937, influenced as it was by the baleful hand of John Charles McQuaid.

The text of the 1922 Constitution is here, and it's worth comparing it against the American one, and our current one:

http://acts.oireachtas.ie/zza1y1922.1.html

Hivemind187

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

An Post is a Limited Liability Company that answers to the Minister for Finance. It has been tasked with providing a service to the State and and is expected to be run as an efficient, profitable business. The increased quantities of mail attributed to the Christmas rush is part and parcel (boom, boom!) of running a profitable business. Therefore, on a purely business level, I see no reason why An Post should forgo potential profit by not catering to public association of Christmas with Christ. Why maybe they should consider moving into other secular events and religious holidays. I won't be stopping them.

Apparently you feel quite strongly that the state is abusing it's power by protecting Christianity (we are talking about stamps, right?). I suggest you take your bitter protests to the streets.

An Post receives monetary support from the treasury. It is (for all intents and purposes) a monopoly (UPS, parcelforce etc are couriers and by no means the same thing). An post is only a limited company so that it can provide an income for itself - it is still a government operation in the same way that Telecom Eireann was and ESB still is.

Since the constitution was changed to remove the special position of the Catholic church in Ireland and that same constitution prevents the establishment of a state religion it is a secular state (i.e. the vested interests of religions should have no bearing on public policy). The state should not be stamping (ha!) it's stationary with any religious gobbledegook for any reason including, but not limited to; Mohammad, dradels, stars of david, swastikas, trees of life, green cresents, yellow stars, or blokes nailed to sticks.

Do I have a strong opinion of this? Yes, I certainly do and no ammount of dismissive hand waving from the god-squad is likely to change that. If it's being done in my name I want an actual say in the process.

Hivemind187

PDN wrote: »

Which secular state are you referring to? Surely not the Republic of Ireland whose Constitution begins with the following preamble:

You are ignoring the fact that the same constitution prevents the establishment of a state religion and that the speicial position of the dominant form of christianity was removed from that constitution.

But I'll grant you that it seems to have made no difference and that those in authority act as though they did live in theistic state.

PDN wrote: »

I agree that Ireland should be a secular state, but it is not. Maybe you should start by challenging the Constitution rather than complaining about stamps?

I have challenged this problem in the constitution a number of times, stamps are only a symptom of a greater disease infecting the state.

Galvasean

Saw a poster advertising the stamps. Guess whose holding the stamps in it?

A snowman!

:pac:

lostexpectation

this post has an official reply from an post about its crib display
http://www.atheist.ie/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1798&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
in relation to this and the angelus and schools
they claim that they don't endow any particular relgion but all of them, we know this to be a lie as the overwhelmingly endow catholicsm.

have you ever seen a display for yom kipper and yule, saturnalia and soltisce in the gpo? no?

jhegarty

lostexpectation wrote: »

.
have you ever seen a dispaly for yom kipper and yule, saturnalia and soltisce in the gpo? no?

Try again when people start to post millions of cards for any of the above

Nevyn

Every year I try and get yule cards or just season's greeting cards, if I could get them I would send them.

condra

Down with images of baby zombie prophet! Down I say!

What we need are sexy solstice cards



I'm feeling very festive and giddy. I just put up our Christmas tree. When I put the angel up on top, I saw up her frock.

I LOVE CHRISTMAS!

lostexpectation

jhegarty wrote: »

Try again when people start to post millions of cards for any of the above

well i was talking about the display rather then the stamps or postcards.

Galvasean

The want to endow all religions eh?

*waits patiently for Star Wars stamps*

PDN

So where does it stop?

An Post issues 35 sets of special stamps each year. These include sets for Christmas and Valentine's Day (maybe single people should start protesting about that one!). Are we saying that it is OK to mark every popular event except those that have a religious connection?

What about music. Is it OK for RTE to play music from Handel's Messiah? Should a State-sponsored broadcaster be allowed to screen The Vicar of Dibley?

Rev Hellfire

PDN wrote: »

So where does it stop?

An Post issues 35 sets of special stamps each year. These include sets for Christmas and Valentine's Day (maybe single people should start protesting about that one!). Are we saying that it is OK to mark every popular event except those that have a religious connection?

What about music. Is it OK for RTE to play music from Handel's Messiah? Should a State-sponsored broadcaster be allowed to screen The Vicar of Dibley?

Since atheists and fringe 'religions' remain a significant minority compared to the main stream theist population (and I'm including those who simply don't care in that camp for convenience) subject of a religious nature seem unlikely to go away any time soon.

Your vicar of Dibley is quite safe for the time been, though I would still like to see it banned for crimes against humour.

Goduznt Xzst

OP when does a religious symbol become a cultural symbol? There is plenty of pagan religious imagery in our society that I'm sure you'd never consider protesting against, so why have a problem with Christian imagery?

How far back do you imagine we should go to uproot religion from our cultural past?

Zamboni

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

OP when does a religious symbol become a cultural symbol? There is plenty of pagan religious imagery in our society that I'm sure you'd never consider protesting against, so why have a problem with Christian imagery?

How far back do you imagine we should go to uproot religion from our cultural past?

Don't over confuse the issue. The point is that the Post Office does not need to produce religious pictures to issue a stamp.

I like snowmen :pac:

Goduznt Xzst

Zamboni wrote: »

Don't over confuse the issue. The point is that the Post Office does not need to produce religious pictures to issue a stamp.

I like snowmen :pac:

I'm curious would you have started this thread if they'd released a stamp with Celtic Knots on it?

ChocolateSauce

Look on the bright side, since they're paid for by the person who buys them it means the state isn't directing our tax money to religious icons.