VHI to increase premium by 23%...

ncmc

... This despite the fact that they benefited massively from the change in tax credits announced last week. Meanwhile, Quinn, who have been adversely affected by this change have 'only' increased their premiums by 16%.

How long before we have a system like the US, where only the wealthy can afford healthcare and the rest can go to hell?

Nehaxak

23% is a massive increase, wtf

Dinter

Yeah it's pretty bad all right. I'll still pay it though as it means I'm guaranteed (pretty much) some semblance of health care. You have to have your priorities right. What's more important than your health?*


*Apart from your ma of course. Zzzzz

Roadend

Try not getting sick or injured, problem solved.....

Phototoxin

What are yo uon abour like america, its practically the same with the exception of some medicines being paid for. We have always had a 2 Tier System.

deisebabe

i think they should give us a no claims bonus. Have been with them for 9 years and never claimed. rip off.

Nehaxak

deisebabe wrote: »

i think they should give us a no claims bonus. Have been with them for 9 years and never claimed. rip off.

I could kneecap you and we go halves on the claim ?

mikemac

Private health insurance isn't needed for most people, the state will look after you :pac:

But seriously, there are many young people in their 20's & 30's paying for this and they'll never use it. I know it's insurance.......

It helps for some things but if you are not near a private clinic and it won't get you seen any faster in A&E
But I think there a lot of people terrified at being without it

Professey Chin

I really hate VHI. Oh we have old people give us money from other companies, we need more money, money,money,money,money,money,money,money,money.
And the government isn't gonna say no for obvious reasons so they just bend over for them.
Glad im not with them anymore.fuppers

oztots

I've heard people who pay for the thing still saying it takes them ages to get treated anywhere anyway.

It would make more sense to just sort the bloody hospitals so people dont feel the need to throw money at health insurance.

As a question, if you get sick more often do you get a higher qoute? Or is it a one sizue fits all system, where the scrawny hemophiliac butcher pays the same as somebody driving a desk?

seamus

Sucks to be a VHI customer.

Get a better insurer.

freddy15

I work a large US Corporation, one of our only 'perks' is that they pay our vhi. Now since they have been threathening to pull out there production end of things for some time, would ye think this may effect their choice. this company employs 4000 in ireland. Any ideas as to whether they would be obliged to pay increase. I'm concerned.

Nehaxak

Another option of course for everyone, even as an added extra to your own health insurance, is the "Hospital Saturday Fund". If you cannot afford VHI or Quinn then the HSF is a real alternative for a lot of things, including dental and eyesight problems also I might add.

Kashkai

Private health insurance is a bloody joke imo. They practically blackmail you into taking it out "or else you'll have to wait ages to be seen in the public system". Right let me put that argument to bed with two examples:

1. My daughter broke her arm last year and spent 14 hours overnight in a & e (in considerable pain). The next morning they finally get round to fixing the arm up. We are asked if we have private health insurance and we tell them that we're with Quinn. Then 2 weeks later we get a bill for €950 for anaesthetist and doctors fees which was paid by Quinn healthcare. My nephew breaks his arm a month later, goes into hospital, gets seen straight away and goes home. Cost as a public patient - €60, yes thats not a typo, its sixty euro.

2. My wife goes semi private when she's pregnant. She has to wait between 1 - 3 hours to see the consultant which is a different doctor each time. In pre-natal, she's in a small cubicle with another woman and her partner so privacy goes out the window. When she has the baby, she's put into a ward with 7 other women and screaming babies. We get the bill for over €2,300 paid again by Quinn. My sister in law goes in to have a baby as a public patient, sees the same doctor each time and ends up in a ward with 5 other women. Better care as a public patient.

Moral of the story, if they know you have private healthcare, they'll charge the earth and you'll not receive any better care for the money.

With the latest increase, we as a family of 6 are now looking at a bill of approx €2,600. We have decided to quit private healthcare and just put this money aside in our own bank in case its needed. If we don't have any major medical bills over the next few years, we'll have a tidy sum saved up. From a quick poll in my job, 5 out of 6 people are quitting private health insurance as the cost is getting too exhorbitant for mere mortals. Perhaps a poll should be attached to this thread to see who is staying and who is quiting private healthcare.

Cookie_Monster

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

<snip
>Long Story, Ne Need to repeat

Thats shocking.

On the upside I'm now saving an extra 23% by not being insured with VHI, excellent:D

Lizzykins

That's a great idea and I know a few people who do that. We gave up VHI two years ago and just put myself and the OH on a policy with Hibernian. Left the kids off it altogether as we would be facing a bill of about 3k for us and 4 kids. Kids never ever used VHI. I was covered to a certain extent when I had the kids in a private hospital. OH had a kidney stone last year and he might as well have been public as he didn't get a private room-not that he cared. I'm only staying with Hibernian in case he needs a heart op being a 50 something!

Nehaxak

Well I'm cancelling my own VHI later when I get home or Monday if it's too late by the time I do get home. Fck them and their 23% rise !

Let's see what happens when they lose 23% of their customers instead.

seamus

Nehaxak wrote: »

Let's see what happens when they lose 23% of their customers instead.

Because they're devoid of any business acumen, they'll just increase prices again for the other 77% because "business is bad".

Kashkai

I've just did a rough calculation of what I've paid in private health insurance in the past 10 years and it comes to approx €15,000. We claimed approx €7,000 (about 90% of which was incurred when having 4 kids as a "semi private patient") so we're down by €8,000 which we'll have to write off as "peace of mind" while covered under private health care. Jeez, we could use that €8,000 now.

Anyways, I think if you can afford to, and have the discipline to do it, you should take the money you pay on private health care and put it in a special account and only touch it if you incur medical bills. This will have 2 benefits:
1. You might end up with a nice nest egg
2. It might make VHI, Quinn etc wise up and realise that they are losing customers in droves and so they'll talk tough with consultants, hospitals etc and keep costs and thus premiums down.

ejmaztec

Difficult choices sometimes. If you want a nice set of teeth implants and a kidney transplant, you have to decide whether you want to look good and piss blood, or get a new kidney and not smile at anybody.

I don't know of any consultants who are not so far up themselves, that they would ever consider dropping their fees.

Smart Bug

I have VHI but I'm beginning to realise I don't actually need it - I'm heading for an x-ray soon as a public patient (free), and I have to see a consultant (which I think may also be free). WHat the bloody hell am I paying my premium for?!!

Gah!

Fighting Irish

ncmc wrote: »

... This despite the fact that they benefited massively from the change in tax credits announced last week. Meanwhile, Quinn, who have been adversely affected by this change have 'only' increased their premiums by 16%.

How long before we have a system like the US, where only the wealthy can afford healthcare and the rest can go to hell?

some people just need to get their priorities right, health insurance isn't that expensive if you look at the money you spend on some other things

Fighting Irish

Smart Bug wrote: »

I have VHI but I'm beginning to realise I don't actually need it - I'm heading for an x-ray soon as a public patient (free), and I have to see a consultant (which I think may also be free). WHat the bloody hell am I paying my premium for?!!

Gah!

Nobody is forcing you, but anything could be around the corner so.....

Smart Bug

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Nobody is forcing you, but anything could be around the corner so.....

Yeah, I guess. But I don't like dolin out the cash for a what if, y'know?

I reckon I'll have to work on whippin up a nice dose of the syphillis to justify my health insurance expenditure.

techdiver

One of the reasons for the price hike is the disparity between what hospitals charge individuals and what they charge VHI for the same service.

The hospitals, especially the private hospitals have to shoulder some of the blame for this because of the crazy prices they charge.

Listening to the radio today, one individual claims that his sister was charged €12,000 for one night B&B in the Blackrock Clinic!!!

That charge was for the accommodation only and was extra on top of the treatment cost.

How they can justify that charge is beyond me!

Smart Bug

techdiver wrote: »

How they can justify that charge is beyond me!

Well that is the problem really. They don't have to justify any charges to anyone. They charge, insurance companies pay, and the government buries it's collective heads in the sand.

Fighting Irish

Smart Bug wrote: »

Yeah, I guess. But I don't like dolin out the cash for a what if, y'know?

I reckon I'll have to work on whippin up a nice dose of the syphillis to justify my health insurance expenditure.

I taught the same, and this year i need my insurance big time. Glad i kept it going now

ncmc

I am just so annoyed by this price increase, as a previous poster said, you feel pressured in to having health insurance because you hear horror stories of people waiting months and months for treatment. Yet my hubby has a long term illness and never has to wait to see his consultant on a public basis, i'm not sure if he's an exception to the rule. It seems that the hospitals charge the insurers stupid money for basic services (like 12k for an overnight stay or €250 for a 5 min taxi trip) and VHI et al just pay it without question, they then pass on these massive costs to the customers in their premium. Why aren't the insurance companies querying these charges and then passing the savings on to the customer?

biko

They must have spent all the extra money they made a year ago, 70 million.

July 20, 2007 – The Board of Vhi Healthcare has approved its Annual Report and Accounts of Vhi Healthcare for the year end 28th February 2007 and they have been submitted to Government. The accounts show a surplus of €70.3 million which represents a welcome recovery from the deficit of €32.3 million reported last year. The surplus consists of two elements – an operational surplus of €34.7 million on day-to-day operations and the release of €40.7 million, less tax of €5.1 million, from the unexpired risk reserve.

SimpleSam06

seamus wrote: »

Because they're devoid of any business acumen, they'll just increase prices again for the other 77% because "business is bad".

Its not just insurers either, I'm seeing the same behaviour from businesses across the board. Unreal. The only silver lining is that these businesses will be wiped out shortly.

Cookie_Monster

ncmc wrote: »

Why aren't the insurance companies querying these charges and then passing the savings on to the customer?

Because I am sure they operate in the exact same way as FAS and are too busy deciding how to waste customer money on management haircuts then doing anything about it.

If they did kick back to the hospital, the hospital in turn would go crying to the government and a whole rake of dodgy practice would come to light and everyone except the customer would loose out on the gravy train they all enjoy currently

PeakOutput

everyone is going to blame vhi as usual and yet again fianna fail and the government in general will get off scot free

the two tier system is a symptom of a **** public health service

its not the private clinics fault they can charge whatever they want

its not vhi's they can charge whatever they want / need to pay the private clinics for their customers as promised in the policy arrangement
is anyone going to demand the resignation of the minister for health for putting all the power in the private clinics hands by as good as forcing people to go private due to ridicolous waiting lists? i wouldnt hold your breath

i dont know alot about it but i hear france has a great system that treats everyone equally and well

techdiver

PeakOutput wrote: »

its not vhi's they can charge whatever they want / need to pay the private clinics for their customers as promised in the policy arrangement

The VHI could remove or at least threaten to remove cover for Blackrock Clinic as they do for Galway Clinic (at least on Plan . This will do the Blackrock Clinic a great deal of harm and they may re-consider their pricing position.

PeakOutput

techdiver wrote: »

The VHI could remove or at least threaten to remove cover for Blackrock Clinic as they do for Galway Clinic (at least on Plan . This will do the Blackrock Clinic a great deal of harm and they may re-consider their pricing position.

but having blackrock clinic on their books or whatever they call their books is better for the customer when the time comes to have something done as it is an excellent clinic.

i used to work in car insurance and all that was complained about was us not paying out for things......now in health insurance its being complained that they are paying out for things(even though they expect to makes loss's this year). my point is it appears that vhi cant win and the government gets off scott free for piss poor management

techdiver

PeakOutput wrote: »

but having blackrock clinic on their books or whatever they call their books is better for the customer when the time comes to have something done as it is an excellent clinic.

i used to work in car insurance and all that was complained about was us not paying out for things......now in health insurance its being complained that they are paying out for things(even though they expect to makes loss's this year). my point is it appears that vhi cant win and the government gets off scott free for piss poor management

I am not complaining about VHI paying out, far from it. I have had to use my VHI from time to time over the last few years and was very satisfied with the convenience of their service.

I just think the VHI should try to play hardball in a bid to get more value for their/our money.

MisterAnarchy

ejmaztec wrote: »

I don't know of any consultants who are not so far up themselves, that they would ever consider dropping their fees.

Well they should be forced to do so by the Government.
These parasites are ripping off the state by charging outrageous prices for a few minutes work.
This country is a joke,an absolute joke.
What other developed country would accept a 23% increase in subs ?
The Govt need to squeeze the balls of alot of the people in the health service and overhaul it but they dont have the balls or intelligence to do so.

Darragh29

Just heard a little rumour from someone in the know in this particular industry, that there is a rumour circulating this evening that one of the three private health insurance companies in Ireland is going to be put into administration next week...

phantom_lord

blame old people imo.

iPlop

deisebabe wrote: »

i think they should give us a no claims bonus. Have been with them for 9 years and never claimed. rip off.

agree i've never claimed for fcukall and im payin the cnuts 2 grand every year cos i have kids now it's goin up 500 euro for me in the middle of a poxy recession ,all this has to do with is the fact that the STATE owned
Very Hungry Imbosiles are bieng used as a way of bumping up the fcukin' tax reciepts for this year --we should be like the frence ,go mad ,start a riot arrrrhhhhh!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:

SimpleSam06

Darragh29 wrote: »

one of the three private health insurance companies in Ireland

Well theres your problem right there.

thefinalstage

When the apocolypse comes it will be the people not on private health care who survive. We have stronger immune systems.

ART6

According to Quinn their increase is due to Mary Harney's new tax dodge to replace the equalisation scheme that the courts threw out. All the health insurers will have to pay the new tax, and will be able to claim some tax refunds. Surprise Surprise!! VHI will get back more in refunds than it pays in tax, while the others will face a net deficit. Surely the first step to establishing a modern world health system here is to get rid of Mary Harney before she completely destroys what little we have now.

Super Sidious

Im paying less that €2 a day... 23% isnt going to break the bank for peace of mind with health care, and dirt cheap yearly travel insurance...

galwaydude

Shouldnt be complaining as it could be alot worse.

I have family health insurance here in the US for myself, the wife and my daughter and i pay over 500 dollars a month while the company i work for pays the rest.

looder

ART6 wrote: »

According to Quinn their increase is due to Mary Harney's new tax dodge to replace the equalisation scheme that the courts threw out. All the health insurers will have to pay the new tax, and will be able to claim some tax refunds. Surprise Surprise!! VHI will get back more in refunds than it pays in tax, while the others will face a net deficit. Surely the first step to establishing a modern world health system here is to get rid of Mary Harney before she completely destroys what little we have now.

Vhi pay out .93 cent in claims for every €1 they take in in premiums. the other 7 % is for the running of the business. thats a fact!! they have a significantly higher age profile and paid out over €1 billion last year in claims (85% of all health insurance claims in Ireland.).
yes Vhi are getting more from tax levy, yes it is basically Risk Equalisation in a roundabout way but for older people(my parents and a lot of your parents too), it would no longer be possible for them to be insured without the tax levy. check your gross amount at your health insurance renewal and check it against your parents - you will see why we needed the tax levy then.


I done a college project on all this a few weeks ago. all of above are facts!!

Also before people go Vhi bashing, for added value services , they are without doubt the best health insurer in Ireland. For yonger people, who just want "to be insured for the cheapest price possible" - go to Vivas - you'll get basic insurance, no extras - there like the ryanair of health insurance. talk to their call centre in India or east banglahore or wherever and see how you get on trying to claim.

Quinn are very good also IMO. haven't as many added value produscts as Vhi but are a mile better then Vivas/Hibernian.

Also as was noted before, It's not the health Insurers fault that the hospitals are ripping them off. Start writing letters to the blackrock clinic and the beacon clinic complaining about their prices. this might drive them down. I'm not happy that I've to pay Vhi €850 for plan B next march but I'll put up with it as the public system is a joke.

please see attached graph for average amounts paid out by health insurers for certain age groups

Trampas

Is the whole idea behind private health insurance is when you need a procedure where you can jump years in waiting list if you go public, instead of standard broken limb or something similar.

broker2008

Increase in premiums from VHI & Quinn.Hibernian Health have publicly stated that they guarantee not to increase premiums before December 31st at least as they have already increased their premiums recently. Premiums are now:

VHI (PlanB): €828
QUINN (Essential Plus Excess): €642
Hibernian Health (we plan level 2): €589

(source: Irish Independent 29th November)

looder

broker2008 wrote: »

Increase in premiums from VHI & Quinn.Hibernian Health have publicly stated that they guarantee not to increase premiums before December 31st at least as they have already increased their premiums recently. Premiums are now:

VHI (PlanB): €828
QUINN (Essential Plus Excess): €642
Hibernian Health (we plan level 2): €589

(source: Irish Independent 29th November)

Vhi and Quinn's premiums aren't increasing until Janurary 1st either so if you want to save a few euro's ring your insurance company, and ask to change the renewal date on your policy to Dec 1 or dec 22nd, this way, you won't have to pay the price increase until next dec, hence saving a few hundred euros

eamon234

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

2. My wife goes semi private when she's pregnant. She has to wait between 1 - 3 hours to see the consultant which is a different doctor each time. In pre-natal, she's in a small cubicle with another woman and her partner so privacy goes out the window. When she has the baby, she's put into a ward with 7 other women and screaming babies. We get the bill for over €2,300 paid again by Quinn. My sister in law goes in to have a baby as a public patient, sees the same doctor each time and ends up in a ward with 5 other women. Better care as a public patient.
.

Absolutely - when my wife got pregnant we looked at the so called benefits from VHI - turned out better and cheaper to go public, which we did (my aunt who is a senior maternity nurse recommended this too) - better still because she had complications and had to stay in for 3 weeks so it would have cost a fortune if we went private as their benefits wouldn't have covered a fraction of it - what's the bloody point in paying them a fortune every year?

I think the whole "Money for GP bills" thing is a ripoff too unless you're constantly going there (I think we've been there twice this year) - plus they make it so awkward to claim it back I'd say most people don't bother.

ART6

looder wrote: »

Vhi pay out .93 cent in claims for every €1 they take in in premiums. the other 7 % is for the running of the business. thats a fact!! they have a significantly higher age profile and paid out over €1 billion last year in claims (85% of all health insurance claims in Ireland.).
yes Vhi are getting more from tax levy, yes it is basically Risk Equalisation in a roundabout way but for older people(my parents and a lot of your parents too), it would no longer be possible for them to be insured without the tax levy. check your gross amount at your health insurance renewal and check it against your parents - you will see why we needed the tax levy then.


I done a college project on all this a few weeks ago. all of above are facts!!

Also before people go Vhi bashing, for added value services , they are without doubt the best health insurer in Ireland. For yonger people, who just want "to be insured for the cheapest price possible" - go to Vivas - you'll get basic insurance, no extras - there like the ryanair of health insurance. talk to their call centre in India or east banglahore or wherever and see how you get on trying to claim.

Quinn are very good also IMO. haven't as many added value produscts as Vhi but are a mile better then Vivas/Hibernian.

Also as was noted before, It's not the health Insurers fault that the hospitals are ripping them off. Start writing letters to the blackrock clinic and the beacon clinic complaining about their prices. this might drive them down. I'm not happy that I've to pay Vhi €850 for plan B next march but I'll put up with it as the public system is a joke.

please see attached graph for average amounts paid out by health insurers for certain age groups

Since you have studied this issue and I haven't I'm prepared to accept that you know more about it than I. However, it's my understanding that no health insurer can charge anyone a higher premium or reject them due to age. If that's the case why do we need the Risk Equalisation scheme that Mary is so determined on, other than to defend the state VHI?

There is no doubt that the medical industry is ripping the guts out of health insurance, but in view of the revelations lately of wild financial mismanagement and waste in other state departments, I wonder if VHI is any different? I recall that Mary Harney was the minister responsible for FÁS and is now responsible for Health. We have already seen examples of FÁS financial management in her watch.

And if the health service, a state body, is deliberately overcharging the health insurance sector, then who is responsible for that? Is it possible that the whole business is simply seen by FF as another opportunity to raise revenue while claiming that Ireland is a low tax economy?

broker2008

broker2008 wrote: »

Increase in premiums from VHI & Quinn.Hibernian Health have publicly stated that they guarantee not to increase premiums before December 31st at least as they have already increased their premiums recently. Premiums are now:

VHI (PlanB): €828
QUINN (Essential Plus Excess): €642
Hibernian Health (we plan level 2): €589

(source: Irish Independent 29th November)

Hibernian Health have now reduced their premiums if cover put in place or switched on 2 dates in December by knocking another 10% off for the 1st year.

Hibernian Health (we plan level 2): €589 to €530 :eek: