Are gaming cafes economically viable?

witnessmenow

Out west here in Galway City 2008 has claimed two gaming cafes (as far as i know of, was clan one aswell?).

At the start of the summer Xcite shut up shop (Was never there but it seemed to be more about 360 gaming than Pc gaming). It was in a pretty poor location for what it was, a good bit out from the city centre.

Now this week Wired is after closing down, barely 1 year after opening. Wired was in a pretty decent spot.

The last one (that im aware of) thats still open Square eyes, is in a very good spot, but its rent must be crazy dear.


I just cant see how a place like them make money? When you throw together a few estimates it just doesn't look good, even if the place is busy. What are ye're thoughts on them?

Overheal

The running costs or Premises, Liability Insurance, Internet Fees, Wages, Hardware Purchase and Protection, Stupidly priced gaming software, versus the couple euro per user you can charge someone to get them in the front door, maybe a couple times a month

= not economically viable. For the very same reason, Atari killed the Arcade: paying thousands to buy a machine to put quarters into, lost out to a machine that cost a couple hundred including games, and could be played indefinitely, in the comfort of your home. with no pants on.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Well with a good business plan and forecast they wouldn't get a penny from the bank, you know? I can see how they might not make a penny, but internet cafes seem to be doing pretty well.

Now what extras would a gaming shop take on? Well there's the hardware, we are not talking about alienware here so the expence is not going to be through the roof. Games are expensive, but you only need one copy for lan. If it's online game play then get people to bring their own copies? Can you purchase extra CD keys from the gaming company for cheaper? I am sure you could arrange some sort of deal...

corcaigh07

the wired to the world francise in Cork does very well, sometimes they are full because they are the best internet places you can get for a euro an hour. as for everywhere else, ive no idea how they survive.

Zillah

Overheal wrote: »

with no pants on.

I have an idea for a viable gaming cafe.

giggsy664

Theres GameTheWorld. Most of them are individual gaming cafes, but my local chartbusters has the phones, tanning, internetz, videos and gametheworld in one building. This might be economically viable? And they run all nighters for ~€25 sometimes so?

http://gametheworld.com

cherryghost

i work in an internet cafe in the midlands, and the last 2 months we've seen customer numbers decrease significantly. our everyday regulars are in once or twice a week now. we we're making profits (albeit about 200 euro or so a day after labour and other costs are taken into account), but lately we're barely breaking even.

whats worse is, the place is leased for a further 4 years with no options to lease it onto anyone else

but i think with a bit of business sense and customer feedback, we believe we can get back in the green after christmas. yes, we're feeling the pinch of recession probably, but we have to get through it, and i believe we will. its just a matter of preparing for a downturn that will keep some of these cafes floating above water.

Zillah

cherryghost wrote: »

whats worse is, the place is leased for a further 4 years with no options to lease it onto anyone else

Is that normal? Sounds a bit mad.

cherryghost

yeah its in the contract. we have to stay put.

seraphimvc

atm,no hope in ireland,end of.:pac:

i couldnt imagine even college students dont play games before i came here.

[insert famous game name,say general warcraft/CS cafe games]
best answer you can expect:
ya,i heard about it,but i never play it,is it any good?

happens 90% among young people.madness i tell ya,madness!!

bikki

Overheal wrote: »

with no pants on.

Ah good old naked gaming.:D

cherryghost

yeah but we got the middleground, where our pcs can cater for anything, thats why we'll be ok

L31mr0d

cherryghost wrote: »

yeah but we got the middleground, where our pcs can cater for anything, thats why we'll be ok

Can I ask you, are you allowed to let people under the age of 16 play games like Counter Strike... etc. I know PEGI ratings aren't enforced but are you legally allowed to let anyone of any age play the games?

My worry in setting up a gaming cafe would be that the people that wouldn't necessarily have uber PC's would be kids, but then you wouldn't be able to cater to them if the games they wanted to play where rated above their age.

Retr0gamer

bikki wrote: »

Ah good old naked gaming.:D

It's the only way to play xtreme beach volleyball.

cherryghost

L31mr0d wrote: »

My worry in setting up a gaming cafe would be that the people that wouldn't necessarily have uber PC's would be kids, but then you wouldn't be able to cater to them if the games they wanted to play where rated above their age.

you know, this may come as a situation to people, but i never tend to think about it, we provide steams gaming cafe, and theres nothing in the terms and conditions regarding underage gameplay, and we aren't 'selling' a game to someone, its technically our property.

a grey area, that i've never thought of to be honest

thebman

I don't think they are unless they are run well. I think most aren't run well.

They have the potential to be the new Arcades but places like a Leisureplex would be better off doing it. Mostly because you go bowling or laser questing or something like that and then go play a game of Halo with your mates for a euro each.

I think the main problem with the XBLA idea in Dublin that I went to was the 360's were clearly overheating all over the place. The TV's were like 26" too I think. They'd be better off going for as big a tv as possible to give the experience that people can't afford at home especially for kids whose parents won't buy a massive tv for them.

I imagine if there is money to be made out of these places, there isn't much money. Better off with a Pc type place where most people don't have the hardware or they just want to have friends around and nobody has room for 30 Pc's networked in their living room so all night gaming sessions with friends will play.

During the day, you could have students if there is a college nearby or just use it as an Internet Cafe during the day for tourists.

Anyway yeah, not a lot of money to be made but you could probably get by if it was the business you wanted to run.

Jazzy

downtown Riga - yes
downtown Dublin - no

Tar.Aldarion

Well I think it's possible, wired looked to be doing well with a lot of regulars, but it was different from most cafes. Wasn't the economy's fault it was closed, although that would contribute. I don't have any idea how much these places make vs the costs, they dont charge too much, usually between 1e and 3e an hour in ones I play. Tried to work it out but would like to see the books.

thebman

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Well I think it's possible, wired looked to be doing well with a lot of regulars, but it was different from most cafes. Wasn't the economy's fault it was closed, although that would contribute. I don't have any idea how much these places make vs the costs, they dont charge too much, usually between 1e and 3e an hour in ones I play. Tried to work it out but would like to see the books.

Wow, that's nothing compared to the XBLA centre where it was like 20 euro each for 4 hours if I remember correctly.

pwd

There's a theory/rumour/urban myth that the web cafes and cheap call shops that seem to be too cheap to survive are in fact often covers for brothels.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was truth to this or that they are used for money laundering or similar.

L31mr0d

I've had a business model for a web cafe in mind for a couple of years. It would be pretty cheap to set up and cater to gamers as well as people without internet. However, I know in my heart it wouldn't be successful and wouldn't make me more than what a day job would so what is the point.

The problem is that more and more places are going to start offering free hotspots, this is going to kill internet cafes.

I'd say if you where planning on setting up an internet cafe you'd need to go somewhere where there are very little options for internet above 56k. That way you could buy a couple of lines, load balance them and offer near DSL speeds for people wanting to check their emails. Setting up in Dublin atm would be business suicide imo.

thelordofcheese

I've always thought of gaming cafes to be the kind of venture you'd undertake if you really hated the concept of having money.

Regular web cafe's make all their money on everything but the internet service, that only exists to get people in the door. After that it's services like printing, photocopying, faxes, selling coffee etc etc that actually bring in the money. A cheap call centre thing also works wonders, both web cafe's owners i know have added this service because they say it's the closest they get to a steady, reliable income stream.


Frankly, i can't see a gaming cafe ever being a viable business venture.

seraphimvc

i have seen it with my own eyes that cyber cafe owner made good money in this way: open close to school+teenage kids long hours in the shop+gamers come in nonstop in 24 hours especially weekend.free soft drinks/coffee etc too!

memories:o

any chance happens here?

Cunny-Funt

Yeah or maybe near or even on a University grounds. (Theres an XBL centre at DCU)

euroman

Has anyone checked out franchises in Ireland? I'm interested in opening a center in Letterkenny ... I've looked at gametheworld.com ... they seem to have a growing network in Ireland.

Are there any others worth checking out? I really like the idea of being part of a network ... gotta be lower risk.

Also, is there an easy way to find out where the existing centers in Ireland are ... particularly in the North-West?

Sabre0001

Franchises can be expensive but quite a bit of the work is done for you so that's a balance you have to weigh up...It's not like a traditional franchise as I don't think there are any KNOWN gaming centres in Ireland - each will have its hub of users but I doubt there's any / many that people have to play at (unlike people who HAVE to eat at McDonalds / Subway for example).

To answer the OP, it's difficult in Ireland especially with so many people on broadband now - there's no real need to go to an internet cafe (unless you're a tourist) or a gaming centre unless there's something on. Rent is expensive but you need to be in that prime location or you won't get business...It's a tough call. You definately need to be able to strike a balance (unlike the 'Omega Sektor' that closed in the UK - Needed to be at 100% capacity, 70% of the time to break even )

Cunny-Funt

Be interesting to see a gaming center that combined the PC lan gaming thing, with the arcade thing by having a few arcade cabs there too. Such as SFIV ones etc.

Problem is they cost so much money.:(

komodosp

Do you have to pay for a special license to use a game in a gaming café? That is, to the game creators?
You know the way video shops have to buy a special copy of a DVD to rent out which is way more expensive than the one you'd find in the shop...

But a gaming cafe carriage on a train might work... Would probably be LAN gaming only, of course. (i.e. not Internet)

Blazer

There's one on Limerick that's doing well.
Of course it helps that Paul (owner) is one of the nicest guys around..remember he never charged me for dvds that were overdue and one time I rented out a PS2..forgot to take it back before christmas and didn't remember till after about it. Was about 6 days overdue but never charged me.
He's since changed it to a cyber shop and from the looks of it seems to be doing well.
All PS3/Xboxes with 32inch LCD's and comfy couches.
Must pay a visit sometime to check it out..not sure if he has pc's though.

fuzzsc00ta

I think gaming cafes can be viable, but it depends on location and unique selling points.

Clan had a good location, but lost the staff who actually knew about gaming and a bit about the PCs they run on. Nothing worse than booking a place for a group of twenty, arriving and being told multiplayer isn't gonna happen. :-/

Xcite was in a ****ty location, but they had a unique selling point in that they offered mostly console gaming.

Wired had built up loyal community and were located close to a number of schools, but their closing seems to have been to do with internal business issues. They were usually busy and if you went once you tended to continue to come back as you could save games/credits to your profile. Plus the owners were incredibly sound.

Squareyes has more than one revenue stream: internet, gaming, and food. They also have a good location, the poeple working there have a good knowledge of the games and the machines and continuously promote themselves. Hopefully, they'll keep their heads above the water.

Overheal

there is also the valve cyber-cafe program. If you began to see more initiatives like that in the industry, it would be a lot easier for cafes to stay open when not drowning in game licensing costs.

RabidDog

Overheal wrote: »

there is also the valve cyber-cafe program. If you began to see more initiatives like that in the industry, it would be a lot easier for cafes to stay open when not drowning in game licensing costs.

Quiet the opposite actually.

Valve charge €10 per seat (computer) per month. That's €2400 a year for just one publisher (only Valve developed games are covered by the scheme, all the other games on Steam aren't included).

It's just not viable.

And Valve's support of the gaming centres in the scheme was so bad that they closed the Cyber Cafes public forum to hide the complaints (for one the Steam server they supplied cafes was underdeveloped and unfit for actual use). They didn't even send the advertising materials they promised (they were supposed to send posters, t-shirts and other promotional items for each new release).

cherryghost

RabidDog wrote: »

Quiet the opposite actually.

Valve charge €10 per seat (computer) per month. That's €2400 a year for just one publisher (only Valve developed games are covered by the scheme, all the other games on Steam aren't included).

It's just not viable.

And Valve's support of the gaming centres in the scheme was so bad that they closed the Cyber Cafes public forum to hide the complaints (for one the Steam server they supplied cafes was underdeveloped and unfit for actual use). They didn't even send the advertising materials they promised (they were supposed to send posters, t-shirts and other promotional items for each new release).

we're paying a fiver per account per month, and the games provided in each account includes all the major valve games, plus flatout 2, all Quake games, all doom games, plus many indie games including darwinia and the likes

RabidDog

Ah well things have obviously changed since they closed the public Cyber Cafe forum over a year ago (which is where I got my info).


I'm glad to hear things have improved. I thought the price might go down considering how weak the Dollar has been, but €5 is a significant drop.

Overheal

cherryghost wrote: »

we're paying a fiver per account per month, and the games provided in each account includes all the major valve games, plus flatout 2, all Quake games, all doom games, plus many indie games including darwinia and the likes

Even at a tenner per seat, that sounds much more cost effective than having bought the software at retail or bulk prices.

RabidDog

Ah yes but look at it this way:

Twenty seats (at €10 a seat) would be €2400. Ok you'd get a good few games but in reality most of those wouldn't be played. So you're spending €2400 on a core group of maybe five games.

To buy those five games outright would be €2000, a once off payment. Even if Valve added five worthwhile games to the list a year (which they generally don't, considering singleplayer games aren't played that much), that would still only be €2000 a year.

Now at €5 a seat it would probably be worth while to join.

cherryghost

yeah we had cleared the old accounts and purchased some new accounts last month, well worth the investment if anyones trying to entice some more people for a reasonably affordable price

Overheal

other than that, are you staying afloat? i mean with all the other costs and considerations as in my post #2

cherryghost

Overheal wrote: »

other than that, are you staying afloat? i mean with all the other costs and considerations as in my post #2

just about we break even on computers daily, sometimes make a profit, everything taken into account, its the western union and alphyra that keeps us up an running

Overheal

cherryghost wrote: »

just about we break even on computers daily, sometimes make a profit, everything taken into account, its the western union and alphyra that keeps us up an running

sell coffee much?

Fracture

euroman wrote: »

Has anyone checked out franchises in Ireland? I'm interested in opening a center in Letterkenny ... I've looked at gametheworld.com ... they seem to have a growing network in Ireland.

Are there any others worth checking out? I really like the idea of being part of a network ... gotta be lower risk.

Also, is there an easy way to find out where the existing centers in Ireland are ... particularly in the North-West?

There is a gaming cafe in letterkenny, its below the 4 lanterns. Now, its been years since i was at it, it wasnt busy at the time (probably because their pc's were crap, and the people working their seemed to care more about playing each other on lan than actually helping their customers out with problems on the pc they are paying to play on), i dont know what the story with it is atm, it would be well worth checking out especially if you are interested in setting up in Letterkenny, a bit of market research would be a good idea if your thinking about setting up anywhere these days.

As for the Gaming cafe's in Galway, its sad to hear wired closed, it was a great spot (nicest staff ever).
Is clan still open? Last time i was near it the owner was to tight to fork out for new systems and they soon lost their crowd to wired.
Square eyes is some spot, really nice inside n all. I went to it once, they charged me 8 quid for an hour to play cs, which wasnt connected to the internet and had to listen to everyone in there because they use speakers instead of headphones
If they fixed the problem of getting some headphones in, took a chunk off the price, and got the net thing sorted then tbh it would be the best gaming cafe in the country.

CutzEr

I think people want to use pc's more than gaming systems..

For example in Scarrff (co clare)

There is an internet cafe that is big, Printing, sells games, Drinks etc..

They have great games on the pc such as minesweeper and hearts.

Boasting speeds of up to 600kb/ps.

Then, ACROSS THE ROAD there is a 'gaming cafe' that does everything, ps3 360 & pc for €1 per hour, And you can buy a 'gaming card' to get discounted rates..

And the gaming cafe went out of buisness a few months ago (closed down)

Wtf!!

CutzEr

I think people want to use pc's more than gaming systems..

For example in Scarrff (co clare)

There is an internet cafe that is big, Printing, sells games, Drinks etc..

They have great games on the pc such as minesweeper and hearts.

Boasting speeds of up to 600kb/ps.

€4.50 per hour.

Then, ACROSS THE ROAD there is a 'gaming cafe' that does everything, ps3 360 & pc for €1 per hour, And you can buy a 'gaming card' to get discounted rates..

And the gaming cafe went out of buisness a few months ago (closed down)

Wtf!!

Overheal

CutzEr wrote: »

I think people want to use pc's more than gaming systems..

For example in Scarrff (co clare)

There is an internet cafe that is big, Printing, sells games, Drinks etc..

They have great games on the pc such as minesweeper and hearts.

Boasting speeds of up to 600kb/ps.

€4.50 per hour.

Then, ACROSS THE ROAD there is a 'gaming cafe' that does everything, ps3 360 & pc for €1 per hour, And you can buy a 'gaming card' to get discounted rates..

And the gaming cafe went out of buisness a few months ago (closed down)

Wtf!!

Look at the business models here:

4.50 an hour for stock standard PC use
1.00 and hour for expensive gaming rig/console/gaming use

Not to mention for regular pc users the gaming cafes are ALWAYS full of noisy mothafukkin kids.

Who the hell did you think was going to go under first?

the_syco

Kimora Delicious Marsupial wrote: »

Games are expensive, but you only need one copy for lan. If it's online game play then get people to bring their own copies? Can you purchase extra CD keys from the gaming company for cheaper? I am sure you could arrange some sort of deal...

This killed any half decent gaming place. They'd spend money on good machines, one license for LAN play, but people would go in, find that they and their mates couldn't play on the same server online, so never went again.

As for "playing with your own account", I did that once. My account then got hijacked 8 months later, and I found out that I had gotten banned from severeal servers. Unless you spent your first 20 minutes doing a scan for virii, malware, key loggers, etc, you're f**ked.

=-=

Also, buying games "once off" is dumb. Someone uses hax in your cafe, gets your accounts banned. That's €50 down the loo in 20 minutes. "Um, [GAME] is not working" "Oh, try the next PC" Another €50 goes down the drain.

Vic Vinegar

Fracture wrote: »

There is a gaming cafe in letterkenny, its below the 4 lanterns.

It's not a gaming cafe anymore! just PCs/printing/international calls etc. All the PCs were replaced last year with new ones!

I work there btw

Sierra Oscar

What do Cafe Owners think of the prices for Valves Cyber Cafe Program?

cherryghost

the_syco wrote: »

This killed any half decent gaming place. They'd spend money on good machines, one license for LAN play, but people would go in, find that they and their mates couldn't play on the same server online, so never went again.

As for "playing with your own account", I did that once. My account then got hijacked 8 months later, and I found out that I had gotten banned from severeal servers. Unless you spent your first 20 minutes doing a scan for virii, malware, key loggers, etc, you're f**ked.

=-=

Also, buying games "once off" is dumb. Someone uses hax in your cafe, gets your accounts banned. That's €50 down the loo in 20 minutes. "Um, [GAME] is not working" "Oh, try the next PC" Another €50 goes down the drain.

heh. we have our PCs ghosted in the netcafe, one game, one cd key, any computer can play any game online regardless of how many peeps are playing the game

the_syco

cherryghost wrote: »

heh. we have our PCs ghosted in the netcafe, one game, one cd key, any computer can play any game online regardless of how many peeps are playing the game

This with using Valves Cyber-Cafe program, as opposed to buying one serial in a shop, and using that one serial for all the computers?

Tar.Aldarion

And also, about your account getting hacked, some cafes have it so that after you log off the computer restarts with a fresh image, no danger in using you accoun there.

cherryghost

the_syco wrote: »

This with using Valves Cyber-Cafe program, as opposed to buying one serial in a shop, and using that one serial for all the computers?

we have the valve cyber cafe program, but some games (COD4/BF2 etc) we legally buy one copy and ghost the programs to all PCs so one key is needed to play online