Should it be okay to be allowed make unsubstantiated accusations against another team

bobbysands81

on this forum if it is my opinion?

There's a lot of tripe written about Celtic on here by folks who are not Celtic fans. When they are asked to substantiate their arguments they refuse to do so yet their lies remain. If I wrote lies about Liverpool or ManU I'm sure these would be dealt with appropriately. I believe that people have even gotten bans on here for referring to ManU as ManUre.

Look at the James McCarthy thread that has been locked by Mods. Would it not be better to deal with the offending posters and leave the thread open rather than close it due to a few bad apples posting lies on it?

People have to be allowed have their opinions on stuff but they must be able to back these opinions up with some kind of facts and not just be stirring to wind other folks up.

There seems to be a lot of unevenhandedness (is that a word?) on this forum, which in general is a good forum. A bit more consistency would make it even better.

OhNoYouDidn't

Rule number one on the charter.

ABUSE: Prejudice will not be tolerated.

If you support certain teams abuse is designated as a legitimate opinion if directed at certain other clubs.

A mod actually told me he 'didn't give a crap' if a post was racist when I reported it. Thankfully another one took it down.

Its blindingly obvious that there is a bias towords certain teams on here.

bobbysands81

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Its blindingly obvious that there is a bias towords certain teams on here.

It's the bias against some teams that seems very obvious to me.

_blank_

Not to be a "Moany Michael" or a "Brian The Back Seat Mod" or a "Tommy Tragedy".

but this post should be in either Helpdesk or Feedback, tbh.

Come on lads.

Xavi6

I'm not so sure Des. I'd rather have somthing like this debated here rather then in Feedback where every Tom, Dick and AH clown can weed in with pointless tripe and lolcats.

premierstone

Des wrote: »

Not to be a "Moany Michael" or a "Brian The Back Seat Mod" or a "Tommy Tragedy".

but this post should be in either Helpdesk or Feedback, tbh.

Come on lads.

I would have went more with ''Pedantic Patricia''

_blank_

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm not so sure Des. I'd rather have somthing like this debated here rather then in Feedback where every Tom, Dick and AH clown can weed in with pointless tripe and lolcats.

Rules are rules though.

You think the mods will leave this here?

rofl.

Xavi6

True, though it'll be a lot more hassle for them over there than here.

_blank_

Xavi6 wrote: »

True, though it'll be a lot more hassle for them over there than here.

Less hassle in helpdesk though.

Villain

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm not so sure Des. I'd rather have somthing like this debated here rather then in Feedback where every Tom, Dick and AH clown can weed in with pointless tripe and lolcats.

Benedict XVI

I don't think so

I believe that Celtic has within their support world wide a large number of fans who are pro IRA

this is based on watching celtic fans behavior in pubs in Boston, hearing them chant IRA slogans and seeing them wearing tee shirts that praise the killing for 'Brits'

I do not have photography or audio evidence of this but I have seen and heard it.

Therefore I can express my opinion based on what I have seen and heard and should not have to supply evidence here, other wise I would have to walk around recording and photographing everything I see.

_blank_

^^

this is where this thread starts to get messy.

bobbysands81

Des wrote: »

^^

this is where this thread starts to get messy.

I won't be biting... well not yet anyway!

OhNoYouDidn't

Benedict XVI wrote: »

I don't think so

I believe that Celtic has within their support world wide a large number of fans who are pro IRA

this is based on watching celtic fans behavior in pubs in Boston, hearing them chant IRA slogans and seeing them wearing tee shirts that praise the killing for 'Brits'

I do not have photography or audio evidence of this but I have seen and heard it.

Therefore I can express my opinion based on what I have seen and heard and should not have to supply evidence here, other wise I would have to walk around recording and photographing everything I see.

But you said that "most Celtic fans are anti-Protestant bigots" and refused to elaborate as to why.

But your baseless allegation in itself is not the issue. If you said "most Liverpool fans are murderers" do you think the post would have been left there? Thats the problem. Celtic are open season for abuse on this site, wheras Man U and Liverpool are protected species. Its not on.

_blank_

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I won't be biting... well not yet anyway!

Someone else did though.

Villain

Benedict XVI wrote: »

I don't think so

I believe that Celtic has within their support world wide a large number of fans who are pro IRA

this is based on watching celtic fans behavior in pubs in Boston, hearing them chant IRA slogans and seeing them wearing tee shirts that praise the killing for 'Brits'

I do not have photography or audio evidence of this but I have seen and heard it.

Therefore I can express my opinion based on what I have seen and heard and should not have to supply evidence here, other wise I would have to walk around recording and photographing everything I see.

EVERY football club has a minority of fans that behave in ways the majority of fans don't like. Also BTW I have been in a hell of a lot pubs in Ireland and heard people chanting IRA slogans etc etc so if you want to slag off Celtic for that you may slag off ALL Irish people!!

dfx-

premierstone wrote: »

I would have went more with ''Pedantic Patricia''

"Difficult Des"?

I was hoping this thread would be like my vote for rant of the year..there's potential similarities

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56423135&postcount=1

bobbysands81

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But you said that "most Celtic fans are anti-Protestant bigots" and refused to elaborate as to why.

But your baseless allegation in itself is not the issue. If you said "most Liverpool fans are murderers" do you think the post would have been left there? Thats the problem. Celtic are open season for abuse on this site, wheras Man U and Liverpool are protected species. Its not on.

Purrrrrcisely.

Benedict XVI

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I won't be biting... well not yet anyway!

sorry
I'm just using an example (from personal experience) of how every opinion or experience from people on this board cannot be backed up with documentary evidence.

I am not wishing to start a pro\anti Celtic debate

bobbysands81

Des wrote: »

Someone else did though.

I will bite eventually (I always do!), but I'd like to see the general point debated first with some input by the Mods.

_blank_

Good luck with that.

I'm not allowed to discuss modding on this forum anyway.

OhNoYouDidn't

Benedict XVI wrote: »

sorry
I'm just using an example (from personal experience) of how every opinion or experience from people on this board cannot be backed up with documentary evidence.

I am not wishing to start a pro\anti Celtic debate

Fine, and its good that you are involved in this. The issue is not your opinion. Its that you made an inflammitory allegation (even a Protestant Celtic fan telling you you were wrong didn't dissuade you), its that the mods refused to deal with it in the manner they deal with other posts.

Look at any LoI thread for the usual suspects trolling and ruining every thread with no sanction. Compare that to how the English club threads are policed.

OhNoYouDidn't

Des wrote: »

Good luck with that.

I'm not allowed to discuss modding on this forum anyway.

I think the mods would be childish in the extreme and provoke a backlash if they sancitoned people over this thread.

Dub13

Moved to Feeback.

We all no the whole Celtic/Rangers thing is as political as it gets in football.Its hard to discuss things without it very quickly getting into non football areas very fast.

People have to be allowed have their opinions I agree but the soccer forum is not the place for politics,sectarianism etc etc.IMO these kind of things have no place in football but unfortunately its part and parcel of football in Glasgow.If the mods taught we could have a open and frank debate on the subject without it getting out of hand we would have no problem with it.

I can see who its frustrating as a fan of one of the Old Firm clubs and you think Liverpool/Man Utd to name two are given preferential treatment.This is not the case,If things got out of hand on any thread then it will be locked.

_blank_

Dub13 wrote: »

I can see who its frustrating as a fan of one of the Old Firm clubs and you think Liverpool/Man Utd to name two are given preferential treatment.This is not the case,If things got out of hand on any thread then it will be locked.

So.

If you assert that this is the case, why then were my reported posts and PMs about the LoI threads roundly ignored?

A reported post of mine was only acted upon A WEEK after I reported it, and I actually had to PM one of the senior soccer mods to get it acted on.

And it was personal abuse, not an opinion.

(someone was called a "cúnt of the highest order", took a week for the charter breech to be dealt with. Acceptable? No)

Dub13

Des wrote: »

So.

If you assert that this is the case, why then were my reported posts and PMs about the LoI threads roundly ignored?

A reported post of mine was only acted upon A WEEK after I reported it, and I actually had to PM one of the senior soccer mods to get it acted on.

And it was personal abuse, not an opinion.

(someone was called a "cúnt of the highest order", took a week for the charter breech to be dealt with. Acceptable? No)

I agree Des that a response of one week for a straight forward personal abuse is not acceptable,I don't no what happened in that case maybe it was one that slipped through the net.

_blank_

Slipped through the net, or ignored like all the other reported posts from LoI threads?

I'm going to copy my original PM to all the Soccer Mods, from 2 weeks ago, in this thread, maybe I'll get some answers after being stonewalled by the Mods, and the Sports CMod.

_blank_

I have to bring this up with you over PM as I, and others, have become quite frustrated with the level of moderation in the Soccer Forum of late.

I am referring particularly to the moderation (or non moderation) of the League of Ireland Threads, in which there have been trolls and personal abuse over the past week or so, which while has been reported, has gone ignored.

At the same time, the precious Liverpool and United fans are protected from a little bit of name calling (referring to Manchester United as "manure" warrants a 2 week ban, while another user was referred to as a "cnut of the highest order", the post reported, and subsequently ignored by mods).

If the moderators are going to pick and choose when and where they are going to moderate, then this is not good enough.

Why are supporters of Irish football treated as second class users, while supporters of Liverpool, Manchester United and the EPL as a whole handled with kid-gloves?

Would it have anything to do with the fact that three of the four active mods are supporters of said clubs? I think so.

Since the departure of kdjac the LoI has not had "representation" on the mod panel, and I feel that this is to the detriment of the forum, because the current batch of mods have no interest in the LoI and cannot moderate threads on it effectively. Or, in fact, ignore it altogether.

Also, I would like to point out that no mod at all has been present in the morning times this week. This was an issue on the forum before, and needs to be addressed.

I find it funny that when the Liverpool and Manchester United supporters started complaining they were pandered to by getting a "one of their own" mods appointed, but the LoI is roundly ignored by the moderation team.

Thanks for taking the time to read this

I never received any reply from any mod, and was then taken to task for making the same points in reported posts, and eventually banned for back-seat modding.

Any answers forthcoming now?

Maximilian

I find it amazing that the sports forums generate so many feedback threads.

I mean there's been how many Pro-Wrestling ones? Seriously how is it even possible to take that so seriously?

stovelid

Not just Liverpool and United.

As pointed out already, people are definitely allowed to derail genuine LOI threads, with the usual armchair advice, generalizations, and subtle trolling, without censure.

_blank_

Maximilian wrote: »

I find it amazing that the sports forums generate so many feedback threads.

I mean there's been how many Pro-Wrestling ones? Seriously how is it even possible to take that so seriously?

I find it amazing that people who have nothing to do with the discussion constantly feel the need stick their oar in to feedback threads, trying to derail them.

Villain

Oh jesus lads, lets not get too excited here, you do remember the good times when the soccer forum was closed?

I have a solution create a new sub forum for LOI and let all the LOI fans post there and mod it themselves

_blank_

stovelid wrote: »

Not just Liverpool and United.

As pointed out already, people are definitely allowed to derail genuine LOI threads, with the usual armchair advice, generalizations, and subtle trolling, without censure.

"it's not trolling it's 'opinion'" is the usual line trotted out about this

_blank_

Villain wrote: »

Oh jesus lads, lets not get too excited here, you do remember the good times when the soccer forum was closed?

I have a solution create a new sub forum for LOI and let all the LOI fans post there and mod it themselves

There would be no issue if that section of posters wasn't ignored by the mods, while other sections of the users are pandered to and handled with kid gloves.

Since the disappearance of the only "LoI-minded" moderator, it has gone downhill, imo.

He was never replaced.

OhNoYouDidn't

Des wrote: »

So.

If you assert that this is the case, why then were my reported posts and PMs about the LoI threads roundly ignored?

Thats the key here Dub13. You can profess otherwise, but complaints made about abuse towords LoI and Celtic fans are treated differently to ones made about certain English clubs.

Do you stand over one of the mods telling me that he "didn't give a crap that a post was racist" and not remove it? And then I get a two week ban for responding to abuse with the phrase ManUre? Where is the consistancy in that?

OhNoYouDidn't

Villain wrote: »

Oh jesus lads, lets not get too excited here, you do remember the good times when the soccer forum was closed?

I have a solution create a new sub forum for LOI and let all the LOI fans post there and mod it themselves

not a bad idea, but it being boards.ie, its the foreign football that should get the subforum....

_blank_

Very bad idea.

It's bad enough that the EPL-fanbois cry at the thought of an LoI thread, get away with trolling it and then get pandered to by the mods.

No.

Why should there be a sub forum?

Villain

Right don't have a sub forum, accept what the mods do or don't do and suck it up then.

_blank_

Villain wrote: »

Right don't have a sub forum, accept what the mods do or don't do and suck it up then.

Put up with bad moderation?

Why?

Villain

Des wrote: »

Put up with bad moderation?

Why?

Its boards.ie you have the choice to post and accept what happens or not to post, this is not a democracy, trust me I know

stovelid

Villain wrote: »

Right don't have a sub forum, accept what the mods do or don't do and suck it up then.

People are right to get annoyed at your suggestion, even if you meant it in good faith. Why should the LOI threads be marginalized on an Irish forum? Strangely enough, LOI threads actually need more moderation because of contributions from non-LOI fans. There is usually far more camaraderie between (even rival) LOI fans than other factions.

Villain

stovelid wrote: »

People are right to get annoyed at your suggestion, even if you meant it in good faith. Why should the LOI threads be marginalized on an Irish forum? Strangely enough, LOI threads actually need more moderation because of contributions from non-LOI fans. There is usually far more camaraderie between (even rival) LOI fans than other factions.

Make LOI the main forum so and have a sub forum for PL, I really don't mind which is the sub forum

KevIRL

Maximilian wrote: »

I find it amazing that the sports forums generate so many feedback threads.

I mean there's been how many Pro-Wrestling ones? Seriously how is it even possible to take that so seriously?

Pro-Wrestling? Sport? hmmmmmm

KevIRL

Very well made point Des.

I believe I reported something similar from an LOI thread and nothing seemed to happen about it. I hope this thread can have some reasonable discussion and not descend into a feedback slopfest.

Oh FWIW, I believe the sub-forum idea to be unneccessary

Maximilian

Des wrote: »

I find it amazing that people who have nothing to do with the discussion constantly feel the need stick their oar in to feedback threads, trying to derail them.

That was a little nasty. I wasn't trying to de-rail anything. Get up on the wrong side of the bed?

_blank_

KevIRL wrote: »

Very well made point Des.

Pity it was ignored and escalated to a CMod then, without any discourse from the moderators in between.

I tried to go the PM route with this, the first step to resolve issues, but I was ignored.

When I asked the same questions of the sports CMod I was fobbed off with "we're looking at these issues".

And nothing else.

I didn't want to go the "feedback route", but I'm afraid I've been forced into it.

I don't feel "Helpdesk" would be helpful here, as everyone who has issues can't contribute on the same thread.

_blank_

Maximilian wrote: »

That was a little nasty. I wasn't trying to de-rail anything. Get up on the wrong side of the bed?

I do apologise.

It's just that with every feedback thread about soccer there are smartarses who can't help themselves.

If you aren't one of them, then I'm sorry for being nasty to you.

_blank_

Also, it would be nice if the mods didn't ignore my questions, again, because they "aren't related" to the name of the thread.

As I have seen happen in the past.

Dub13

Des wrote: »

Slipped through the net, or ignored like all the other reported posts from LoI threads?

I'm going to copy my original PM to all the Soccer Mods, from 2 weeks ago, in this thread, maybe I'll get some answers after being stonewalled by the Mods, and the Sports CMod.

Your PM has been and is still been discussed by the Soccer mods and the CMod,to say it was ignored/stonewalled is simply not true.

Des wrote: »

There would be no issue if that section of posters wasn't ignored by the mods, while other sections of the users are pandered to and handled with kid gloves.

Since the disappearance of the only "LoI-minded" moderator, it has gone downhill, imo.

He was never replaced.

We deal with all reported posts the same,can anybody show clear cut examples of different treatments to different sets of fans..?I personally try to deal with each situation on its own merits.


I can only speak for myself but I would have no problems with a 'LOI firenidley mod' been apointed.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Thats the key here Dub13. You can profess otherwise, but complaints made about abuse towords LoI and Celtic fans are treated differently to ones made about certain English clubs.

As I said I don't think this is the case,a few of you seem to think it is an issue but as I said I have not seen any evidence of this.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Do you stand over one of the mods telling me that he "didn't give a crap that a post was racist" and not remove it? And then I get a two week ban for responding to abuse with the phrase ManUre? Where is the consistancy in that?

Without knowing the context of the comment I would not like to say to much but it does not seem like a productive comment.

_blank_

Dub13 wrote: »

Your PM has been and is still been discussed by the Soccer mods and the CMod,to say it was ignored/stonewalled is simply not true.

Then why was it ignored? Not one mod even acknowledged receipt of it.

Next thing I know, the CMod is involved, and I'm getting banned for back seat modding (just to note, I have no issue with the ban, I WAS back seat modding, but with, imo, good reason. Nobody has been "front seat modding" either).

Dub13

Des wrote: »

Then why was it ignored? Not one mod even acknowledged receipt of it.

Next thing I know, the CMod is involved, and I'm getting banned for back seat modding (just to note, I have no issue with the ban, I WAS back seat modding, but with, imo, good reason. Nobody has been "front seat modding" either).

I just had a re read of the thread and one of the Soccer Mods has a comment 'PM sent' 10-11-2008, 15:40.

My assumption was this PM was to deal with 2 things your PM and then the back seat modding which produced the ban.I cant speak for all the soccer mods but that was my assumption.