Making a complaint against a GP

Red Sleeping Beauty

What is the process for making a formal complaint against your GP ? And who do you make it to ? Is it the HSE ?

I've had a pretty questionable experience with my GP, in fact I'm utterly flabergasted at his treatment. Don't want to post details here, but I feel that he has definately made a gross error. I don't know what to do, I've had the same doctor fr the last 15 years. I'm need of medical treatment and his response was very negative and not helpful at all.

Can I just walk into another doctor's practise and say "I have X wrong with me, I need help" . Or will I be required to explain what has happened with my GP ?

What happens if/when you make a complaint ? I'm assuming that there would be an investigation and I would need to make a statement to someone. Basically I want someone else's opinion on wether or not my GP was wrong in his medical opinion. I've always wondered wether or not people making complaints just added extra pressure on the health service or if it actually improves it.

I'm not sure how relevant this is, but at the start of the year my GP was ill himself and took quite a lot of time off. He has since cut down his hours from about 22 hours per week to about 11hours per week.

RobFowl

You're first point of call would to make a verbal or written complaint to your GP. You are entitled to a second opinion which he/she may arrange or you can on your own. The HSE has no complaints procedure for GP's .
The next point of call is the medical council. You can make a complaint directly to them, if you are unsure you can phone them (Irish medical council) and they have a section which advises you on your option. They will investigate all written complaints. GP's are advised that answering and responding to complaints as soon as possible is the best way of dealing with them.
So in short you can complain directly to the GP /Practice or else the medical council.
Hope this helps

RobFowl

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I've always wondered whether or not people making complaints just added extra pressure on the health service or if it actually improves it.

All the professional medical bodies say complaints/feedback should be encouraged and responded to. The consensus is that complaints/feedback does improve the standard and quality of services.
By the way I am in the medical field and personally welcome feedback positive and negative

dinneenp

there's a form you can get online and complete and submit. Google it.

Red Sleeping Beauty

RobFowl wrote: »

You're first point of call would to make a verbal or written complaint to your GP. You are entitled to a second opinion which he/she may arrange or you can on your own. The HSE has no complaints procedure for GP's .
The next point of call is the medical council. You can make a complaint directly to them, if you are unsure you can phone them (Irish medical council) and they have a section which advises you on your option. They will investigate all written complaints. GP's are advised that answering and responding to complaints as soon as possible is the best way of dealing with them.
So in short you can complain directly to the GP /Practice or else the medical council.
Hope this helps

Cheers. Have you any more info on this Medical Council ? Who are they? What do they do ?
I don't really see the point of making a complaint to my GP (his practise is his own and he's the one doctor there) as he's given his opinion to me on the issue and knows that how I feel about it.

mardybumbum

All the information required on making a complaint is here.

406C

mardybumbum wrote: »

All the information required on making a complaint is here.

Alan not really worth the time or effort given the amount of iatrogenic issues and more occurring within the medical system. GPs are overwhelmed full stop as is the hospital system.

Best bet is to switch doctors and let it go since it will be time involving, personally drawing on you and your doc, and in the end nothing will happen - you won't be compensated for nor will your doctor be pulled up in any significant way. Sorry to put it bluntly but this is how it is.

If it is a major issue for you speak to a solicitor and leave it with them to pursue for you, this way you will be compensated for and the issue will be resolved between your solicitor and your doctors leaving you both free to get on with life.

Kwekubo

The process has changed slightly in recent months, but in essence, on receipt of the complaint the Medical Council will decide whether there is a prima facie case for investigating professional misconduct; if so, it proceeds to a formal fitness-to-practise investigation with a court-style hearing. If you can resolve the matter by dealing with your GP first then try that, but if you're not happy then the process is there.

Red Sleeping Beauty

406C wrote: »

Alan not really worth the time or effort given the amount of iatrogenic issues and more occurring within the medical system. GPs are overwhelmed full stop as is the hospital system.

Best bet is to switch doctors and let it go since it will be time involving, personally drawing on you and your doc, and in the end nothing will happen - you won't be compensated for nor will your doctor be pulled up in any significant way. Sorry to put it bluntly but this is how it is.

If it is a major issue for you speak to a solicitor and leave it with them to pursue for you, this way you will be compensated for and the issue will be resolved between your solicitor and your doctors leaving you both free to get on with life.

How is that going to help improve GP's service or the health service as a whole if sub-standard treatment is being given and everybody just ignores it and says nothing about it ?

RobFowl

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

How is that going to help improve GP's service or the health service as a whole if sub-standard treatment is being given and everybody just ignores it and says nothing about it ?

Completely agree with this comment Alan. Just to show your opinion is seen as valid in medical circles I,ve included a few links from the BMJ (a UK medical journal which is very highly regarded). Doctors don't like complaints, none of us do, but often they are valid and point out failings and deficiencies which would otherwise be left alone. In an extreme case Shipman and Neary in less severe cases a failure to fully discuss a problem or communicate all the options. I am a medic and while i would prefer the complaint be made to me first, I would not have a problem if someone felt they prefered to go direct to the medical council. Even in cases where the doctor gives the correct advice communication is often poor.
Do what you feel is right. The medical council are more patient friendy than they were BTW. Even it if does not decide to go to a fitness to practice enquiry they will investigate each and evry written complaint.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/318/7198/1567?maxtoshow=&HITS=80&hits=80&RESULTFORMAT=1&title=complaint&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/309/6953/544/a?maxtoshow=&HITS=80&hits=80&RESULTFORMAT=1&title=complaint&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7388/557/a?maxtoshow=&HITS=80&hits=80&RESULTFORMAT=1&title=complaint&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/332/7549/1092?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&title=complaint&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

Red Sleeping Beauty

I've discussed it with a few friends and after thinking about it a lot, I am in no doubt that the doctor was wrong in how he handled me and what he said. He knows that I was unhappy from how I reacted so I've no interest in going back to him as theres a good chance of the same outcome. It wasn't just this one incident either, it's how he's treated over the last year for this ailment.

It's more than just a petty little disagreement that should be brushed over.

I'm not expecting miracles from this Medical Council . I suspect that there may be an issue with how GPs are trained as a whole rather than just the one doctor. Perhaps I can shed some light onthe situation , either that or I'll be told I am in the wrong and that's that.

RobFowl

Alan a colleague of mine says there is no such thing as a "complaint" but that it is all "feedback" which can be positive of negative .
Either way it give you a chance to get your concerns across and the GP a chance to either defend him/herself or else learn form thier mistakes.

Red Sleeping Beauty

RobFowl wrote: »

Alan a colleague of mine says there is no such thing as a "complaint" but that it is all "feedback" which can be positive of negative .
Either way it give you a chance to get your concerns across and the GP a chance to either defend him/herself or else learn form thier mistakes.

A yeah fair enough, it doens't bother me if you call id feedback or complaint.

I'm not looking for compensation, I'm not looking to have a strke against the doctor. He's treated me for all sorts of other things and has been competant before. I think there's a hole there that needs seeing to. I just want my treatment and to inform the appropriate people that there needs to be something done .

406C

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I just want my treatment and to inform the appropriate people that there needs to be something done .

which feedback will inform the GP alone and a complaint to the medical council will alert no-one. You will most probably feel unable to face the GP nor confident enough to return to them and perhaps feel ostracised within that practice.

The fact is Alan even if you were simply given the wrong advice or more seriously the wrong meds, had the wrong kidney or leg removed or had an incident that sriously injured you, you have no recourse other than to suck it up, forget about it or move it to legal recourse and remove yourself from the problem and move on.

I know this is isn't what medics amongst us like to hear but it is a problem right now that the squeezing of the health care system causative of increased iatrogenic issues, injuries and death has no rebound back on those squeezing it - government.




.

RobFowl

406C wrote: »

which feedback will inform the GP alone and a complaint to the medical council will alert no-one. You will most probably feel unable to face the GP nor confident enough to return to them and perhaps feel ostracised within that practice.

The fact is Alan even if you were simply given the wrong advice or more seriously the wrong meds, had the wrong kidney or leg removed or had an incident that sriously injured you, you have no recourse other than to suck it up, forget about it or move it to legal recourse and remove yourself from the problem and move on.

I know this is isn't what medics amongst us like to hear but it is a problem right now that the squeezing of the health care system causative of increased iatrogenic issues, injuries and death has no rebound back on those squeezing it - government.




.

Fundimentally disagree with you here 406c. I know from a previous thread that you have a caring and rightly cautious and questioning intellect.
The Neary case was only highlighted by a complaint , Harold Shipman was only found out after a family expressed concerns.
Thallidomide's side effects were only brought to light after critical case reports were published.
The Irish system has a serious deficit in that there is no body you can complain to between the GP and the Medical council. That is probably somthing that should be looked into.
Persionally if I were doing something wrong I might not find out unless it were brought to my attention. I would prefer it to come to me first but if that was not the case it would be better to have problems highlighted than simply left !

406C

In truth so would I.

I simply think that we need to realise the reality that there are too many unrealistic expectations of the system and the medical council.

People like Alan are dissatisfied all round the country with doctors, hospitals, with a lack of leadership on health issues and lack of alternative other than prescription drugs or the risk of surgery. Do you think the medical council is going to change this dissatisfaction or correct expectations?

The medical profession in this country is beginning a journey that the Catholic Church and the Gardaí underwent and that loss of authority.

However for the medical profession this has not come about primarily by abuse of power but through pressure of finances: lack of it from public funding and greed from those producing equipment, medicines and facilities. Then add into that an arrogance seen in many consultants and doctors, like bishops and priests before them that they were right and that Joe public had no recourse.

Rob you cite the Neary case. It came to the fore with a whistle blower not by a complaint by the public. Brought before the Medical Council he gets his wrists slapped and a few women deemed to be worth it get a nominal compensation. As far as I know it Mr Neary still has not been charged with anything criminal. Nor has anyone been charged with obstruction of justice in relation to record changing and removal of records.

Last month a child had the wrong kidney removed in a hospital in Dublin despite the parents speaking directly to the surgeon prior to the surgery. The child will require life long dialysis or a transplant and immune suppressing drugs that will probably kill him with cancer in the long run. Will that surgeon face criminal charges? No.

And like the paedophile priest moved to another parish, this surgeon will move to another hospital and this is what I was pointing out there is no recourse other than to suck it up and move along.

I disagree with your point Rob there needs to be another area to register complaints with. They are already there. Firstly the practice manager and in relation to more serious issues, the Gardaí and the DPP.

Changes are coming but right now Alan is between a rock and a hard place. I will agree to disagree with you Rob but my advice to Alan remains as it was.

406C wrote: »

Alan not really worth the time or effort given the amount of iatrogenic issues and more occurring within the medical system. GPs are overwhelmed full stop as is the hospital system.

Best bet is to switch doctors and let it go since it will be time involving, personally drawing on you and your doc, and in the end nothing will happen - you won't be compensated for nor will your doctor be pulled up in any significant way. Sorry to put it bluntly but this is how it is.

If it is a major issue for you speak to a solicitor and leave it with them to pursue for you, this way you will be compensated for and the issue will be resolved between your solicitor and your doctors leaving you both free to get on with life.

tallaght01

I definitely think people should report concerns that they have.

I reckon that if the GP at least finds out about the complaint, then that's at elast somehting.

The practise manager works for the GP, so may not be in the ideal position to be objective, plus they are unlikely to have the knowledge to make judgment on a clinical matter.

Just because criminal proceeding haven't been instigated, doesn't mean a procedure isn't worthwhile. For example, the report on the kid who got the wrong kidney removed showed multi-system failures. If the surgeon can go to jail for operating poorly in a dreadful system, then there's something seriously wrong, or else a lot of other people should do time, too.

Also, one of the real strengths of a complaints system is that feedback can be given to the complainee regarding why a particular course of action was taken. I don't know anything about the OPs case, but sayhe wantedto continue his NSAIDS, for example. His GP sees that his U+Es have become markedly deranged, so wants to use somehthng else. But the patient says those NSAIDS are the only things that workfor his pain. It could all get nasty, especially as poor communication is said to bebehindmostcomplaints.

So, I reckon the procedure isn't perfect, but it should still be used.

Red Sleeping Beauty

RobFowl wrote: »

Fundimentally disagree with you here 406c. I know from tprevious thread that you have a caring anc rightly cautious and questioning intellect.
The Neary case was only highlighted by a complaint , Harold Shipman was only found out after a family expressed concerns.
Thallidomide's side effects were only brought to light after critical case reports were published.
The Irish system has a serious deficit in that there is no boby you can complai to between the GP and the Medical council. That is probably somthing that should be looked into.
Persionally if I were doing something wrong I might not find out unless it were brought to my attention.
I would prefer it to come to me first but if thay was not the case it would be better to have problems highlighted tahn simply left !

There's lots of typos there Rob.

406C wrote: »

In truth so would I.

I simply think that we need to realise the reality that there are too many unrealistic expectations of the system and the medical council.

People like Alan are dissatisfied all round the country with doctors, hospitals, with a lack of leadership on health issues and lack of alternative other than prescription drugs or the risk of surgery. Do you think the medical council is going to change this dissatisfaction or correct expectations?

The medical profession in this country is beginning a journey that the Catholic Church and the Gardaí underwent and that loss of authority.

However for the medical profession this has not come about primarily by abuse of power but through pressure of finances: lack of it from public funding and greed from those producing equipment, medicines and facilities. Then add into that an arrogance seen in many consultants and doctors, like bishops and priests before them that they were right and that Joe public had no recourse.

Rob you cite the Neary case. It came to the fore with a whistle blower not by a complaint by the public. Brought before the Medical Council he gets his wrists slapped and a few women deemed to be worth it get a nominal compensation. As far as I know it Mr Neary still has not been charged with anything criminal. Nor has anyone been charged with obstruction of justice in relation to record changing and removal of records.

Last month a child had the wrong kidney removed in a hospital in Dublin despite the parents speaking directly to the surgeon prior to the surgery. The child will require life long dialysis or a transplant and immune suppressing drugs that will probably kill him with cancer in the long run. Will that surgeon face criminal charges? No.

And like the paedophile priest moved to another parish, this surgeon will move to another hospital and this is what I was pointing out there is no recourse other than to suck it up and move along.

I disagree with your point Rob there needs to be another area to register complaints with. They are already there. Firstly the practice manager and in relation to more serious issues, the Gardaí and the DPP.

Changes are coming but right now Alan is between a rock and a hard place. I will agree to disagree with you Rob but my advice to Alan remains as it was.

What angle are you coming from ? Are you a GP yourself ?
Your analogy between GP doctors and the Guards and Priests is utterly baffling and confusing.

MY doctor provided a "Poor professional performance" and it needs to be brought to his attention. If I were to just go back to him and say "I think you were wrong in how you treated me" what's he going to say ?

This issue needs to be highlighted to the medical community and if the medical council are the only people that are listening then I'll tell them because I suspect that the treatment and attitude of my GP was not a solely unique case.


Here's the types of complaints considered by the Medical Council :


The PPC considers complaints about medical practitioners (doctors) under one or more of the following grounds:-

• Professional misconduct
• Poor professional performance
• Medical disability
• Failure to comply with one or more condition(s) attached to the doctor’s registration
• Failure to comply with an undertaking given by the doctor to the Medical Council or to take any action specified in a consent given by the doctor in the context of a previous inquiry.
• Contravention of a provision of the Medical Practitioners Act 2007
• Conviction in the State for an offence triable on indictment (or if convicted outside the State for an offence which would constitute an offence triable on indictment in this jurisdiction).

What the Council cannot do

The Medical Council cannot:-

• Look at complaints about professionals other than doctors.
• Provide legal advice or representation to complainants.
• Consider complaints about hospitals, clinics or other healthcare institutions (we only deal with complaints about individual doctors).
• Help you make a claim for compensation.
• Contact a doctor on your behalf and ask him or her to do something (i.e. forward a medical report, write a prescription).
• Give you a detailed explanation of what happened to you – this can only come from the doctor or the relevant healthcare organisation.
• Compel a doctor to apologise to you.
• Provide or arrange medical treatment or counselling for you.

What powers does the Medical Council have?

The Fitness to Practise Committee’s report will usually be considered by the Medical Council within eight weeks of the completion of the inquiry. If the Committee finds that allegations against the doctor have been proven, the Council may consider imposing one or more of the following sanction(s) on the doctor:-

• - Advise, admonish or censure the doctor in writing;
• - Censure the doctor in writing and fine the doctor up to €5,000;
• - Attach conditions to the retention of the doctor’s name on the Register;
• - Transfer the doctor’s name to another division of the Register (once this provision has been commenced);
• - Suspend the doctor’s registration for a specified period;
• - Cancel the doctor’s registration;
• - Prohibit the doctor from applying to restore their name to the Register for a specified period

.




This issue needs to be brought to the attention of my GP and he needs to see how serious the matter is. He knows how I feel about how he treated me and me reitterating my feelings and opinions will not achieve what I want . And what I want is to highlight a gross flaw in this treatment and perhaps an incompetence by the GP medical community as a whole.

Perhaps the medical council don't have any powers to do anything if how my GP acted is repeated by all other GPs. But what am I to do ? Sit around until they get the finger and move out of the dark ages ?

RobFowl

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

There's lots of typos there Rob.

You're not wrong

406C

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

But what am I to do ? Sit around until they get the finger and move out of the dark ages ?

pretty much and thats my point

Red Sleeping Beauty

406C wrote: »

pretty much and thats my point

You didn't answer my question .
What side are you coming from ? Are you a GP doctor yourself ? Or are you just playing devil's advocate for the hell of it ?

RobFowl

tallaght01 wrote: »

I definitely think people should report concerns that they have.

I reckon that if the GP at least finds out about the complaint, then that's at atleast somehting.
I reckon the procedure isn't perfect, but it should still be used.

Sorry to part quote but I fully agree with this.

Let us know what you do Alan, and how you get on.

Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

406C

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

You didn't answer my question. What side are you coming from ? Are you a GP doctor yourself ? Or are you just playing devil's advocate for the hell of it ?

Alan this post may seem somewhat blunt but what difference does it make whether I am a GP, consultant, nurse or layworker? I do not feel the need to qualify my postings here. I did not give you any medical advice

Your OP did not ask for such qualification either, it asked:

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

What is the process for making a formal complaint against your GP ? And who do you make it to ?

This was clearly answered.

My point was that it did not really address grievances nor serious incidences, nor does it produce mechanisms for change as per your OP statement:

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I've always wondered wether or not people making complaints just added extra pressure on the health service or if it actually improves it.

Yes adds pressure and no doesn’t improve anything

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Can I just walk into another doctor's practise and say "I have X wrong with me, I need help"

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Basically I want someone else's opinion on wether or not my GP was wrong in his medical opinion.

And I simply have suggested you get another GP to assess your need for whatever it is you wish for.

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I'm need of medical treatment.

I am agreed with Tallaght01 and Robfowl – if you want to resolve the situation with your GP then the best place to start is with your GP.

If you want to get another opinion go to another GP.

If you want to make a formal complaint, and add to the pressure you outlined your GP is already under, and not get another opinion, well then go to the medical council as per the link in a previous post.

Bruno68

I've had a problem with a doctor over the last year myself. After several visits & getting no where I decided to make a complaint, I got the info from http://www.complaints.ie , a very helpful site by the way. I would suggest however that if you do have a problem with your GP & they are not listening, just get a new GP, its alot less hassle.

tallaght01

<snip> post edited, as warning no longer required as firetrap deleted his post <snip>

woop

Id love to know what he did

Jumboman

Its a bit of a joke having the medical council ie doctors investigating themselves. They are likely to take the side of a doctor in any dispute. Unless your dealing with a harold shipman type character its unlikely the medical council will go after a Doctor. I cant see them doing anything about a Doctor who happens to be rude and ignorant.

L1011

Jumboman wrote: »

Its a bit of a joke having the medical council ie doctors investigating themselves. They are likely to take the side of a doctor in any dispute. Unless your dealing with a harold shipman type character its unlikely the medical council will go after a Doctor. I cant see them doing anything about a Doctor who happens to be rude and ignorant.

Have you actually read any Medical Council judgements? Or are you just flying off the handle on an assumption?

If the former, how did you get that viewpoint, seeing as the majority of cases which proceed to a hearing result in finding(s) against the doctor?

If its the latter, why did you bounce a five year old thread just to say that?

http://www.medicalcouncil.ie/News-and-Publications/News/2013/Fitness-to-Practise/

http://www.medicalcouncil.ie/News-and-Publications/News/2012/Fitness-to-Practise-/

May be worth reading through.

Vorsprung

Jumboman wrote: »

Its a bit of a joke having the medical council ie doctors investigating themselves. They are likely to take the side of a doctor in any dispute. Unless your dealing with a harold shipman type character its unlikely the medical council will go after a Doctor. I cant see them doing anything about a Doctor who happens to be rude and ignorant.

You do know the Medical Council is the first in Europe to have less doctors than other professions on it since Nazi Germany? Please google "irish medical council misconduct guilty" to read some recent judgements against doctors.

Feel free to start a new thread but I'm going to lock this.

Jumboman

MYOB wrote: »

Have you actually read any Medical Council judgements? Or are you just flying off the handle on an assumption?

If the former, how did you get that viewpoint, seeing as the majority of cases which proceed to a hearing result in finding(s) against the doctor?

If its the latter, why did you bounce a five year old thread just to say that?

http://www.medicalcouncil.ie/News-and-Publications/News/2013/Fitness-to-Practise/

http://www.medicalcouncil.ie/News-and-Publications/News/2012/Fitness-to-Practise-/

May be worth reading through.

I'm looking to complain about a doctor but I think its a waste of time.

I cant see the point about complaining about a doctor to another doctor when he has done nothing crimmal. Its like the old days of the gardas investigating themselves before their was an ombudsman.

Vorsprung

Doctors aren't charged with criminal acts by the medical council, they're charged with misconduct, poor professional performance, negligence among others.

Closed for the reasons above.

sam34

Jumboman wrote: »

Its a bit of a joke having the medical council ie doctors investigating themselves.

actually, there's a lay/non-medical majority on the medical council.