Kicked off of the 56A!

Unregistered.

Hi all,
Apologies in advance for rambling but I need to get this off my chest!

I am a student, in Trinity College and every day I get the bus from Crumlin to Dame Street, costs €1.50 each way. 5 buses go down that route. (50, 55A, 77, 77A, 150)

Today however, I was in a lab down the east end until 5 p.m. and decided to walk down Pearse street. Thought I could catch a bus there before the crowds packed on. Hopped on a 56A, paid my €1.50 and sat upstairs...

The bus gets to Dolphins Barn, 3 stops away from mine. Then the bus driver starts calling "Dolphin's Barn, Dolphin's Barn!" before announcing via intercom that I had to get off because my ticket said dolphin's barn! I was shocked! He came upstairs, pointed me out, told me to check me ticket and said he will not move until I get off! I had not realized that the fare should have been 1.70, and besides that I only had the 1.50.
I told him this is not my stop and he said "fine, we'll wait for the guards". I refused to get out and walk for 10-15 minutes in the rain!
So I ended up confronting him downstairs, ask him why he is being like this, to which he replied "I didn't like your attitude" I offered to pay the extra 20 cent (which I didn't have), and he refused. Other passengers came down and asked how much the fare was and he refused.
He stayed in his cab, and started reading the Herald. I gave out to him for forcing me to walk in the rain and holding everyone up.

"I don't care, I get paid €28 per hour!"

He was really brash, and smart-alecky about it. He wouldn't give me his name, but shouted back - a well rehearsed - procedure for making a complaint.

Against all my principals, I got off the bus for 2 reasons.
1) The Gardai have far more important things to do than respond to the call out of this incident.
2) It would be unfair on the other passengers, as he made it clear he didn't care.

As he pulled off he looked out and me grinning and waved.

I took down the bus registration and immediately phone Dublin Bus, which was ringing through to the complaints line for 15 minutes before I hung up!


I accept that the fare from from Pearse street to my stop is €1.70.
What I do not accept is that if there are junkies shooting up, people drinking or smoking on the bus, often nothing is done about it! His behavior was ridiculous and waaay out of line In my opinion!! Surely it is a bus inspectors decision to decide to kick somebody off the bus?

To quote a passenger, "He's bent on power, a little Hitler!"

Victor

The driver was perfectly right, and entitled to do what he did. Fare evasion is the slippery slope to other anti-social behaviour.

AugustusMaximus

Victor wrote: »

The driver was perfectly right, and entitled to do what he did. Fare evasion is the slippery slope to other anti-social behaviour.

What right did the bus driver have to refuse the 1.70 being offered from other passengers on the OP's behalf. It is a public service.

If this is true, its obvious to me anyways that the driver was on a pure power trip.

MagicMarker

Victor wrote: »

The driver was perfectly right, and entitled to do what he did. Fare evasion is the slippery slope to other anti-social behaviour.

Me arse tbh.

The driver was completely out of line.

OP, you REALLY need to report this, and not back down until you get a satisfactory answer!

AugustusMaximus

This is the sort of story that Joe Duffy would absolutely lap up. Name and shame I say.

Hope you get satisfaction out of whichever path you decide to take.

L1011

If you do complain, they'll manage to be unable to tell what driver was on that shift that day, as happened when I complained about a driver verbally abusing me when I queried why he changed route after boarding. Got a 'we'll make sure it doesn't happen again' type response (despite them saying they didn't know who the driver was....).

Gave up complaining to them since. Given up using them, actually.

zAbbo

sarcasm radars on the blink lads?

patrickc

I think the driver was right in what he did, you didn't pay the full fare.. simple as

passive

patrickc wrote: »

I think the driver was right in what he did, you didn't pay the full fare.. simple as

You can't be serious? Firstly, that isn't the driver's job at all, that's what inspectors are for. He just didn't like the OP and decided to pull a power trip. Secondly, the OP didn't realise he had underpaid, and offered to make up the difference, which the driver rejected. Other passengers were willing to give them the entire cost of a new fare, which the driver had no right to reject, unless the OP was being drunk, abusive or causing problems to others, which he was not. Thirdly; The driver stopped the bus and disrupted the journey of everybody else on board, arrogantly stating that he was being paid either way and didn't give a **** about the service he was providing.

You can't actually think this was justified over a 20c error. Seriously... There's no way in hell you actually believe that. Please retract that post.

Victor wrote: »

The driver was perfectly right, and entitled to do what he did. Fare evasion is the slippery slope to other anti-social behaviour.

Don't be a troll...

TheDublinMan

patrickc wrote: »

I think the driver was right in what he did, you didn't pay the full fare.. simple as

Even when the fare was offered the driver refused.
Which sounds more like he was having a pox of a day and decided that little fecker that always paid 20cent less than he's supposed to was going to walk those extra two stops in the rain. (cue evil laugh)

Unregistered.

Victor wrote: »

The driver was perfectly right, and entitled to do what he did. Fare evasion is the slippery slope to other anti-social behaviour.

I do not think he was right to single me out like that! I am not saying that i agree with fair evasion, but how often do you find that the driver hasn't pushed the "stage button" and issues you a ticket from a completely different stop? Nobody ever says anything about that coz it's not really a big deal! And why have i been on countless number of buses with people smoking and drinking on them and be allowed to stay on??

MagicMarker wrote: »

Me arse tbh.

The driver was completely out of line.

OP, you REALLY need to report this, and not back down until you get a satisfactory answer!

I pretty much emailed them this post word for word. Will probably have to follow it up with a letter.

patrickc wrote: »

I think the driver was right in what he did, you didn't pay the full fare.. simple as

But he wouldn't even accept the fare(that other passenger offered) up to my stop! He had already made up is mind and was not gonna back down

Unregistered.

Thanks for your support everybody.

Pride Fighter

You go to Trinity. The bus driver was just taking out a bad day on someone who he knows is far superior to him mentally and probably in every other way as well. I see it in UCD as well.
You have to remember though that most bus drivers are sound, pricks like this bus driver ruins the name of the good ones.

BluntGuy

patrickc wrote: »

I think the driver was right in what he did, you didn't pay the full fare.. simple as

But it's not "simple as"...

Yes, he was correct to to insist that the full fare be paid and refuse to allow the passenger to continue...

He came upstairs, pointed me out, told me to check me ticket and said he will not move until I get off! I had not realized that the fare should have been 1.70, and besides that I only had the 1.50.

But he had no right to refuse money from the other passengers to cover the measley 20 cent fare...

Other passengers came down and asked how much the fare was and he refused.
He stayed in his cab, and started reading the Herald.

Think of it this way. Say you were getting on a bus and your ticket was 1.50. You had 1 euro in your hand, so you dig for the other 50 cent in your pocket. You don't have 50 cent, so you ask somebody (your friend, another passenger etc.) for 50 cent. The bus driver accepts the 1 euro but doesn't accept the 50 cent because "somebody lend it to you". Would you consider that a fair reason not to accept money?

If not then certainly there is a valid case to be made...

I don't like to see people "shrugging" this off when clearly, if the truth is being told here, the man was out-of-order and completely unlawful.

Not to mention the fact that he sounds like an arrogant tosser, but that is beside the point... if he did genuinely refuse to accept the 20 cent from other passengers and forced you to walk in the rain, then you do have a case against him.

the boss of me

You can look at this a couple of ways. The driver was either a very conscientious employee , or a dickhead. But no matter what you think he has the law on his side and the op was in the wrong.

I refused to get out and walk for 10-15 minutes in the rain!

You didn't have a valid ticket to travel any further and therefore had no right to be on the bus.

I gave out to him for forcing me to walk in the rain and holding everyone up.

You were the one holding up the bus,you were the one that refused to get off and then started arguing.

I accept that the fare from from Pearse street to my stop is €1.70.

Sounds like you know you were in the wrong.

Surely it is a bus inspectors decision to decide to kick somebody off the bus?

Driver is entitled to ask you to leave the bus and it is an offence to refuse. You were actually lucky there was no inspector around as if you had travelled without a valid ticket , you would have been liable for the standard fare of €50.

"He's bent on power, a little Hitler!"

Most likely very true and you will meet many people like this in all walks of life. Don't give them the satisfaction. That's something you can't learn in Trinity, welcome to the university of life.

_Kaiser_

Victor wrote:

The driver was perfectly right, and entitled to do what he did. Fare evasion is the slippery slope to other anti-social behaviour.

passive wrote: »

Don't be a troll...

+1 Especially from a mod of this forum! :rolleyes:

The driver in question was way out of line and (since we're talking about adhering to the letter of the law here) shouldn't have left his cab in the first place if I'm right? As for the whinging from a few posters here about the OP "evading" the fare.. he paid the fare, just apparently not enough but with DB's ridiculously overcomplicated fare structure how is anyone supposed to know what the fare is - he already mentioned it wasn't his normal journey.

Just another CIE jobsworth that thinks he's clever and unfortunately there's plenty more like him. €28 an hour?? If that's true then it's no wonder public transport is in the state it's in with having to keep people like that in a job.

I'd advise you to follow up on it OP, but the reality is that even if you do get through to someone that'll take the complaint (best bet is to call the depot directly rather than Head Office - RINGSEND Depot. Telephone (01)703 4533), then you'll never know if anything is ever actually done as "it's an internal matter" but it might give you some satisfaction anyway.

Yet another reason why people avoid public transport unless they've no other option.

Unregistered.

the boss of me wrote: »

You didn't have a valid ticket to travel any further and therefore had no right to be on the bus.

My ticket was valid up the stop that we were at. So why wouldn't he accept the fare for another journey?

Sponge Bob

Next time do try to sound like a Tallaghtfornian .

StAAAWry Budhhhh !!!

He will leave you alone then .

BluntGuy

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Yet another reason why people avoid public transport unless they've no other option.

I agree with what you said, but to be fair, I doubt this happens to that many people.

But I'm sure there are rules regarding how the driver must handle a situation like this, and from the sounds of it he was way out-of-line. I am sure other bus drivers would've handled the situation a lot more reasonably...

Unregistered.

BluntGuy wrote: »

I agree with what you said, but to be fair, I doubt this happens to that many people.

But I'm sure there are rules regarding how the driver must handle a situation like this, and from the sounds of it he was way out-of-line. I am sure other bus drivers would've handled the situation a lot more reasonably...

I don't think it would have ever happened otherwise! I can't believe this was even a "situation". I have never seen this happen before, and I find it REALLY hard to believe that i am the only person EVER to have "evaded the fare" if you want to put it like that.
I just think that it is unacceptable for a a person like this to be treating the public with such lack of dignity. He was very unreasonable.

Quint

Can't believe some people are actually siding with the bus driver! Obviously common sense and courtesy aren't part of a bus drivers job.
I know all bus drivers aren't like this, but I was on a bus at a terminus in Finglas a while ago and the driver wouldn't let the 1 pensioner on the bus till 10am. They had to stand in the rain while the bus driver read his paper. I was allowed on no problem, and when the drivers watch went past 10 he let the old guy on!
But some of the posters here would probably think that's grand, the driver was following the rules. :rolleyes:

the boss of me

Unregistered. wrote: »

My ticket was valid up the stop that we were at. So why wouldn't he accept the fare for another journey?

He didn't want to back down at that point because he might have lost face. Now it's arguable that your behaviour could have been interpreted as "soliciting alms" which is prohibited on buses and is another reason to remove someone from the bus.

the boss of me

BluntGuy wrote: »

I agree with what you said, but to be fair, I doubt this happens to that many people.

But I'm sure there are rules regarding how the driver must handle a situation like this, and from the sounds of it he was way out-of-line. I am sure other bus drivers would've handled the situation a lot more reasonably...

Something similar happened my wife last year. Bus driver stopped and told her this was her stop. When she told him she wanted to go further he asked fo another .45c. She was very embarrassed and apologised and paid the extra few cent. As someone already pointed out the fare structure is too complicated and passengers can easily make a mistake and not pay the correct fare.

Run_to_da_hills

If you are quick enough DB should have every piece of this episode on cam. Could be fun to watch, driver chasing up the stairs, reading Herald, etc.

HydeRoad

I worked in Dublin Bus for nearly four years. I left for a number of reasons, but one of the reasons, was guys like this. There are too many of them in Dublin Bus, and they are always protected by the union.

There is no excuse for this kind of behaviour, it is against every shred of proper customer service training, and Dublin Bus, and all the good, decent, customer orientated employees, are ruined by it.

By all means complain, and complain by letter, preferably personally to the District Manager or somebody at that level, but do not expect any satisfaction.

More time should be spent prioritising customers, streamlining the route network, and achieving more efficient operation, and less time protecting guys like this and keeping them in a job they do not deserve and are totally unsuited for.

Arathorn

Driver was an idiot, should have taken his picture with your camera phone to send to dublin bus, also would have riled him up a bit id say.

TirEoghain

Forgetting about everything else, is the driver leaving the cab unattended with passengers on the bus not a disciplinary offence in itself?

If you were to take any photos, thats the one you would want to have been taking.

Vic_08

The simple fat is that this happened because the passenger was in the wrong, he overtravelled (or attempted to do so) which is against the conditions of carriage and despite the nonsense some people here are saying the driver was well within his rights to confront him about it.

It is the passenger's responsibility to ensure they have the correct fare for the journey they intend to take. The suggestion that the thread starter was not at fault because of the complex fare structure is also nonsense, if he was unsure about the fare then he should have told the driver his destination on boarding the bus and he would then have been told the correct fare.

Of course he admitted in his first post that he didn't have the correct fare anyway so not finding out the correct fare was very convenient for him until the driver decided to pull him up on it.

The idea that the driver should have or HAD to accept the extra money either from the evader or other passengers is total nonsense. If it was offered before he had travelled or voluntarily when he got to the last stop he had paid for then yes but it was only after he was caught attempting to evade. If the consequence for being caught overtravelling was just to pay the extra to make up the correct fare then why would anybody bother paying more than the lowest fare and take their chances?

The penalty for fare evading is the standard fare which is a hell of a lot more than 20c. failing that the passenger had come to the end of his paid journey and the driver had every right to ensist he left the bus.

As for not backing down he was dead right, once he had insisted the evader leave the bus he would have been a fool to capitulate because the passenger resisted and got agressive.


BTW, I am a bus driver myself, for Bus Eireann so I have some experience with these type of situations. I would point out that in this we have one side of an altercation, no doubt if the driver involved were to give an account of the same situation it would read very differently.

I have never worked for Dublin Bus and our ticketing procedures are different but from what I know it would be fair to say the poster was unlucky to be caught, overtravelling is a common occourence on Dublin Bus and mostly goes unchallenged. That however is no excuse and just because he was singled out where others have got away with it does not mean what he did was acceptable.

I am not going to pass judgement on the driver's actions, maybe he was out of line, maybe not. In my experience it is usually a case of a situation escalating to a point where a relatively minor problem turns into a large scene because both sides refuse to back down, sometimes that is because the driver mis-handles things and sometimes it is simply unavoidable. Once the decision is made to confront someone rather than turn a blind eye it is always a risk but once the decision is made it is better to stand your ground than to capitulate.

Not bothering to confront anyone over anything seems to be the done thing now in Dublin Bus and it would appear to be endorsed by management also. On an day-to-day basis it is I am sure the best approach for most drivers who just want to do their job and go home with the least aggro possible but in the wider picture that attitude has contributed to the situation where a large minority of bus users consider the upper deck of city buses a place where they are free to do anything they like from fare-evading to shooting up.

Vic_08

TirEoghain wrote: »

Forgetting about everything else, is the driver leaving the cab unattended with passengers on the bus not a disciplinary offence in itself?

No, it isn't, there are numerous reasons why a driver would have to leave his cab while in service.

As for taking photos, there are security cameras dotted around the bus so it would be rather pointless.

meanmachine3

Unregistered. wrote: »

Hi all,
Apologies in advance for rambling but I need to get this off my chest!

I am a student, in Trinity College and every day I get the bus from Crumlin to Dame Street, costs €1.50 each way. 5 buses go down that route. (50, 55A, 77, 77A, 150)

Today however, I was in a lab down the east end until 5 p.m. and decided to walk down Pearse street. Thought I could catch a bus there before the crowds packed on. Hopped on a 56A, paid my €1.50 and sat upstairs...

The bus gets to Dolphins Barn, 3 stops away from mine. Then the bus driver starts calling "Dolphin's Barn, Dolphin's Barn!" before announcing via intercom that I had to get off because my ticket said dolphin's barn! I was shocked! He came upstairs, pointed me out, told me to check me ticket and said he will not move until I get off! I had not realized that the fare should have been 1.70, and besides that I only had the 1.50.
I told him this is not my stop and he said "fine, we'll wait for the guards". I refused to get out and walk for 10-15 minutes in the rain!
So I ended up confronting him downstairs, ask him why he is being like this, to which he replied "I didn't like your attitude" I offered to pay the extra 20 cent (which I didn't have), and he refused. Other passengers came down and asked how much the fare was and he refused.
He stayed in his cab, and started reading the Herald. I gave out to him for forcing me to walk in the rain and holding everyone up.

"I don't care, I get paid €28 per hour!"

He was really brash, and smart-alecky about it. He wouldn't give me his name, but shouted back - a well rehearsed - procedure for making a complaint.

Against all my principals, I got off the bus for 2 reasons.
1) The Gardai have far more important things to do than respond to the call out of this incident.
2) It would be unfair on the other passengers, as he made it clear he didn't care.

As he pulled off he looked out and me grinning and waved.

I took down the bus registration and immediately phone Dublin Bus, which was ringing through to the complaints line for 15 minutes before I hung up!


I accept that the fare from from Pearse street to my stop is €1.70.
What I do not accept is that if there are junkies shooting up, people drinking or smoking on the bus, often nothing is done about it! His behavior was ridiculous and waaay out of line In my opinion!! Surely it is a bus inspectors decision to decide to kick somebody off the bus?

To quote a passenger, "He's bent on power, a little Hitler!"

lets look at this from both points. firstly the o.p. point.
he gets on a bus a few stages earlier than where he normally gets on. doesn't pay the correct fare and when he's asked to leave the bus refuses and go down to confront the driver and only after a while does he leave.

now the drivers point of view.
passenger gets on pays a fare, somehow came across as someone who was going to overstay their stages, and was confronted when asking a passenger to leave the bus.

the o.p. should've asked what the fare was to where he was going and if he didn't have the correct fare explain this to the driver. most drivers use common sense but at the same time not take responsability for for a passenger overstaying their fare. the o.p. said it wasn't his stop when confronted instead of saying he made a mistake about the fare.
personally i do not entertain passengers giving money to another for their fare when it's on a bus.
the worst thing the o.p. did was to confront the driver. he should've held his hands up and said he was wrong.
there are signs on buses pointing out about correct fare, stating destination and having a valid ticket.

the o.p. goes on about other behaviour and other posters go on about the driver leaving their cab. unless soemthing is brouight to our attention there is noting we can do about it. as for leaving the cab, drivers are not ensured if anything happens after leaving the cab but we can leave the cab for any number of reasons ,those ranging from people interfering with emergency exits to dealing with a complaint. i have on many occassions left my cab to remove smokers this being the last resort of course anmd will continue to do so in the future should the need arise.

mikemac

Can't realy add much to this thread except:

Proposed new fare:

1 euro short journey
2 euro long journey (maybe 7 stages, I don't have the technical details)
50c for a child
Lots of incentives for electronic tickets to cut down on cash

This is offtopic but would cut down on messing!

If was a passenger on the bus, I'd be raging at both the driver and the OP. Both of ye held up 50 plus people, though you don't state how many were on the bus.

The OP should have put on a rough accent, smoked and been fighting. Sure this goes on my bus every day and the driver doesn't seem to care! :mad:
Did I forget to blare dance music from your mobile!
Maybe the driver went after an easy target but wouldn't target anti-social behaviour at all