Kevin Myers Action

bean

Hi All,
I know that there are other media related forums this could be moved to but i was hoping to get as many people as possible to react to this.

Keving Myers article today on suicide: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/suicide-victims-are-really-perpetrators-of-heartbreak-1542920.html

and previously his article on Africa: Africa is giving nothing to anyone -- apart from AIDS
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/africa-is-giving-nothing-to-anyone--apart-from-aids-1430428.html

I will be one of the more fortunate though still enraged individuals
writing about Myers words, in so far as I have not lost anyone to this dark and terrible deed or witnessed first hand terrible poverty.

In recent times I have read his attacks on the most vulnerable and
lost people, the impoverished, the ill and the despairing.
At best his attack is careless at worst utterly devoid of humanity. To
constructively criticise the methods and means to eliminate
poverty or to acknowledge the dark void and misery left behind by
suicide is a worthwhile exercise. However this was not the case.

Mr Myers spewed contempt for the vulnerable, giving credence and
ammunition to those who would wish to give into humanities baser
instincts. The absence of any compassion balance or pity was palpable.

There was nothing magnanimous or insightful in these articles, only
hate.

I have written to irish independent but also to press ombudsman
http://www.presscouncil.ie/v2/pressombudsman/portal.php?content=_includes/complain.php

Please, if you feel the same disgust for the article as i do please let them know. I queried the ombudsman that "Africa is giving nothing to anyone -- apart from AIDS" may be incitement to hate or failing that inaccurate.

If you disagree, perhaps i misinterpreted Mr Myers article or im overlooking something, let me know

dr.bollocko

Kevin Myers is a grand ould chap. You leave him be with your powerful yet nasty rhetoric.

Sharpshooter

Now that I'm asked to feel disgust....
Nope afraid I can't/ AH affliction

Dudess

I can't stand Myers generally but I think he makes some reasonable points in those two articles. I think they're actually two of his less sh1t-stirring pieces. I've a problem with the John Waters thing he references - I know I'm a feminist but I have been to a John Waters talk and found him excellent... however, blaming the epidemic of male suicide on the "triumph of feminism"... Please. :rolleyes:

Kevin Myers is right: suicide does destroy families, it is quite a cruel thing to do... however he's not looking at the other side: some people are in such unbearable pain that it's cruel to force them to live.

CreepingDeath

bean wrote: »

and previously his article on Africa: Africa is giving nothing to anyone -- apart from AIDS

Nah, there's been a couple of good Tarzan movies and nature documentaries. So, you don't believe in free speech then ?

Effectively, you want to use brute force to silence someone because you don't like what they're saying ?

At some stage, political correctness actually crosses the line into censorship and thought police.

Yes, he's being incredibly insensitive, but maybe that's his objective/journalistic brief he was given to get more readers.

But, I think political correctness does go a bit too far at times.

AlmightyCushion

Kevin Myers writes some controversial tripe? I never thought I'd see the day. In fairness to him, I can kinda see the point he is trying to make in the two articles you mention, doesn't mean he's not a bit of a twat though.

mike65

Its an opinion piece, and I'm not sure what there is to argue with tbh.

Mike

truecrippler

mike65 wrote: »

Its an opinion piece, and I'm not sure what there is to argue with tbh.

Mike

Don't do that man!!!

4zn76tysfajdxp

truecrippler wrote: »

I only thanked you because I'm pretty sure you didn't read any of that... nor did I *cough*.

Very astute of you.

Caoimhín

So just because you disagree with his opinion you are trying to silence him?

One of the pillars of modern democracy is the freedom of the press and the freedom for people to express their opinions. It disgusts me when i see people trying to suppress and silence others opinions.

Op, if you disagree with Myres (I often find myself in disagreement with his opinions) then DONT READ HIS ARTICLE.

stovelid

I think the suicide article is par-for-the-course Myers really. It has a basically offensive / hysterical context and title, but when you read the article itself, the basic premise is not actually that offensive, if admittedly objectionable and provocatively couched.

He's paid to wind up challenge sacred cows and that's what he does. He seems to be the favourite bug bear of left liberals (as I would class myself) but I often can't see what the fuss is about, or more accurately, I think there are far more objectionable opinions about.

I'm probably a bit biased as -even though I dislike about 80% of what he says- he's a fine writer when he wants to be, as Watching the Door attests.

Sharpshooter

truecrippler wrote: »

I only thanked you because I'm pretty sure you didn't read any of that... nor did I *cough*.

* cough * * cough *.:o

Robbo

bean wrote: »

Please, if you feel the same disgust for the article as i do please let them know. I queried the ombudsman that "Africa is giving nothing to anyone -- apart from AIDS" may be incitement to hate or failing that inaccurate.

If you disagree, perhaps i misinterpreted Mr Myers article or im overlooking something, let me know

What do you hope to achieve through manufacturing this outrage, some kind of Brand/Ross witch-hunt? If you solicit enough complaints of the press ombudsman the beastly Mr Myers can be driven back to Leicester?

XJR

I cant say I'm a great fan of Myers but I don't find anything offensive about the article. Certainly I dont' see anything that warrants a complaint to the press ombudsman or whatever he's called.

Maybe I missed something so perhaps you could point to what you found so offensive about it.

RichMc70

I don't see where the problem is.

He's only giving an opinion, which a lot of people would agree with.

Whilst I don't agree with everything he writes I still believe we are just about living in a free society, so if you don't like it then don't read his column.

bean

Robbo wrote: »

What do you hope to achieve through manufacturing this outrage, some kind of Brand/Ross witch-hunt? If you solicit enough complaints of the press ombudsman the beastly Mr Myers can be driven back to Leicester?

Fair enough, i guess im letting my personal outrage get the best of me.
I think it crossed a line though. Saying that Africa has brought nothing to the world but aids is inaccurate unfair and does spread a kind of hatred that i cant take.

tedstriker

Suicide is selfish. I have two friends who have had parents that committed suicide. Brothers of people I went to school with have committed suicide. Other people from my home town have committed suicide and in most cases it has had a mammoth impact on the family and friends of the family. It brings a sense of shame on top of the massive loss of a young and unexpected death. Whatever the reasons for it are, you cannot get over the fact that it is selfish. Myers might be blunt to someone who is sensitive but he is right on many points.

stovelid

To be honest, when he wrote in the Times, this kind of stuff created a furore because of the IT readership. I fail to see how it is that incongruent with the Indo/Sindo.

bean

XJR wrote: »

I cant say I'm a great fan of Myers but I don't find anything offensive about the article. Certainly I dont' see anything that warrants a complaint to the press ombudsman or whatever he's called.

Maybe I missed something so perhaps you could point to what you found so offensive about it.

suppose a highly read journalist in a widely read news paper telling everyone that africa is no good and all its done is spread aids. I found it offensive

4zn76tysfajdxp

bean wrote: »

suppose a highly read journalist in a widely read news paper telling everyone that africa is no good and all its done is spread aids. I found it offensive

I find your post offensive.

bean

tedstriker wrote: »

Suicide is selfish. I have two friends who have had parents that committed suicide. Brothers of people I went to school with have committed suicide. Other people from my home town have committed suicide and in most cases it has had a mammoth impact on the family and friends of the family. It brings a sense of shame on top of the massive loss of a young and unexpected death. Whatever the reasons for it are, you cannot get over the fact that it is selfish. Myers might be blunt to someone who is sensitive but he is right on many points.

id say that i agree with you ted, its tragic and it just brings bad things to everyone involved.

Its just that i have known of guys my own age (not very close) who were bullied and in some instances mentally unwell when they killed themselves, i didnt consider it an act of selfishness.

bean

Tenley Powerful Shelter wrote: »

I find your post offensive.

touche

carlybabe1

personally, I think he's right, on all counts..including the outrage of the moralists....
Seriously not making a joke but a friend recenty pointed out, in regards to one of those "jacinda has to walk twenty miles every day just to get clean water" adds
What the ****?... why dont they just move? its not like they cant, they live in tents for **** sake.....:eek:
talk about a tena moment

Kirnsy

carlybabe1 wrote: »

personally, I think he's right, on all counts..including the outrage of the moralists....
Seriously not making a joke but a friend recenty pointed out, in regards to one of those "jacinda has to walk twenty miles every day just to get clean water" adds
What the ****?... why dont they just move? its not like they cant, they live in tents for **** sake.....:eek:
talk about a tena moment

quote of the day...

RichMc70

Kirnsy wrote: »

quote of the day...

+1

bean

carlybabe1 wrote: »

personally, I think he's right, on all counts..including the outrage of the moralists....
Seriously not making a joke but a friend recenty pointed out, in regards to one of those "jacinda has to walk twenty miles every day just to get clean water" adds
What the ****?... why dont they just move? its not like they cant, they live in tents for **** sake.....:eek:
talk about a tena moment

id say that it has something to do with the fact that the water supplies in these places dry up and appear somewhere else and living beside a mosquito ridden putrid water source with wild animals nearby isnt healthy

Blackjack

Best way to have an impact on myers is not to read what he writes and not to buy the Rag he writes for.

Why anyone would pay for the Indo is beyond me in any case, but I realise it serves a purpose.

carlybabe1

bean wrote: »

Fair enough, i guess im letting my personal outrage get the best of me.
I think it crossed a line though. Saying that Africa has brought nothing to the world but aids is inaccurate unfair and does spread a kind of hatred that i cant take.

Ok so shift the balance by telling us what it has brought to the world? And I dont think that the spouting of a journalist is going to spread hatred, confirm what oher people are secretly thinking maybe, but I dont think its going to suddenly induce racism in a rational person...maybe I'm niave

stovelid

carlybabe1 wrote: »

What the ****?... why dont they just move? its not like they cant, they live in tents for **** sake.....:eek:
talk about a tena moment

Mad Africans.

Why wouldn't they want to live right beside a river.

Sheer laziness.

Caoimhín

carlybabe1 wrote: »

"jacinta has to walk twenty miles every day just to get clean water" adds

Your thinking of Tallagh.

bean

Blackjack wrote: »

Best way to have an impact on myers is not to read what he writes and not to buy the Rag he writes for.

Why anyone would pay for the Indo is beyond me in any case, but I realise it serves a purpose.

thats a fair point

carlybabe1

bean wrote: »

id say that it has something to do with the fact that the water supplies in these places dry up and appear somewhere else and living beside a mosquito ridden putrid water source with wild animals nearby isnt healthy

And again....move..

Caoimhín

carlybabe1 wrote: »

And again....move..

One cant move a tent and a family of 23 when one is riddled with the AIDS...

carlybabe1

stovelid wrote: »

Mad Africans.

Why wouldn't they want to live right beside a river.

Sheer laziness.

Touche...;)
However, I dont think that image is a fair representation of africa,
for starters your mans shorts look far too hip and trendy, not to mention expensive

bean

carlybabe1 wrote: »

Ok so shift the balance by telling us what it has brought to the world? And I dont think that the spouting of a journalist is going to spread hatred, confirm what oher people are secretly thinking maybe, but I dont think its going to suddenly induce racism in a rational person...maybe I'm niave

Yep, true. Its not like he invented this kind of tirade. Its not going to change the heart and minds of all the people who read it but there are a few folk out there who will see it as gospel

4zn76tysfajdxp

Caoimhín wrote: »

One cant move a tent and a family of 23 when one is riddled with the AIDS...

Don't get AIDS then. Does this really need to be spelt out to people?

pablomakaveli

Kevin myers is just another one of many delibrately controversial columnists. These guys try to be as contreversial as possible to sell more papers which in turn earns them more money. If you don't like him don't buy the paper.

And for people who are talkin ****e about suicide being selfish get a bit of cop on. If someone is pushed to a point where they want to take their own life they are obviously suffering incredible pain or stress. I hardly doubt someone would make that decision just to hurt the people who care about them. That kind of attitude is only going to discourage suicidal people from coming forward and getting help.

Caoimhín

Tenley Powerful Shelter wrote: »

Don't get AIDS then. Does this really need to be spelt out to people?

FFS, Why these people cant buy bottled water in Tesco is beyond me. And i know they are poor, but thats what Lidl and Aldi are for.

bean

carlybabe1 wrote: »

And again....move..

perhaps into a warzone or into a city scape that has no employment food or shelter or into a the midst of ethnic cleansing war or perhaps back to another ridden dangerous putrid water supply

Caoimhín

bean wrote: »

perhaps into a warzone or into a city scape that has no employment food or shelter or into a the midst of ethnic cleansing war or perhaps back to another ridden dangerous putrid water supply

Mmm, your thinking of Ballymun...

bean

Caoimhín wrote: »

Mmm, your thinking of Ballymun...

picture..?

bean

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Kevin myers is just another one of many delibrately controversial columnists. These guys try to be as contreversial as possible to sell more papers which in turn earns them more money. If you don't like him don't buy the paper.

And for people who are talkin ****e about suicide being selfish get a bit of cop on. If someone is pushed to a point where they want to take their own life they are obviously suffering incredible pain or stress. I hardly doubt someone would make that decision just to hurt the people who care about them. That kind of attitude is only going to discourage suicidal people from coming forward and getting help.

I agree, i dont read the paper but i heard it everywhere and couldnt ignore it. I think that the statement that africa has only brought aids to the world has such gravity and has been spread so much on such a popular mainstream media that everything to say that this statement is untrue should be done

Edit: The same should be said for Mr Myers assessment of those who have killed themselved

Sharpshooter

Caoimhín wrote: »

Mmm, your thinking of Ballymun...

bean wrote: »

picture..?

They used them all for roll ups.

4zn76tysfajdxp

bean wrote: »

I agree, i dont read the paper but i heard it everywhere and couldnt ignore it. I think that the statement that africa has only brought aids to the world has such gravity and has been spread so much on such a popular mainstream media that everything to say that this statement is untrue should be done

Edit: The same should be said for Mr Myers assessment of those who have killed themselved

But why did you complain to the paper?

qwertplaywert

In the end though, it all comes down to Freedom of Speech- he has exercised his, just like you are excising yours right now.

bean wrote: »

I think that the statement that africa has only brought aids to the world has such gravity and has been spread so much on such a popular mainstream media that everything to say that this statement is untrue should be done

I dislike the sound of that. One man's true is another man's lie. Let people who voice one opinion have their say, and let people who voice another have theirs.


Btw I agree with many of you, Myers is[and has in the past] just stirring up controversy for sales.

bean

all of them?

bean

qwertplaywert wrote: »

In the end though, it all comes down to Freedom of Speech- he has exercised his, just like you are excising yours right now.



I dislike the sound of that. One man's true is another man's lie. Let people who voice one opinion have their say, and let people who voice another have theirs.


Btw I agree with many of you, Myers is[and has in the past] just stirring up controversy for sales.

Thought about that too, i believe that he has had his say in the statement that africa has only brought aids to the world and how all suicides are selfish, i also believe that the statements have no truth in it and are not fit for publishing.

XJR

bean wrote: »

I think that the statement that africa has only brought aids to the world has such gravity and has been spread so much on such a popular mainstream media that everything to say that this statement is untrue should be done

If there's going to be a discussion about it lets at least get it right; what he said was . .

They are now -- one way or another -- virtually all giving aid to or investing in Africa, whereas Africa, with its vast savannahs and its lush pastures, is giving almost nothing to anyone, apart from AIDS.

He is in fact trying to make a broader point which it seems is being missed, his second paragraph give a clue when he says:

So why on earth should I do anything to encourage further catastrophic demographic growth in that country?

He does however go on to explain that this thought is tempered by both his conscience and the imagery or "another wide-eyed child".

The real point of his article is to question why the west should pour money into countries when it is not really improving them but is instead he says perpetuating the current situation.

I am not saying I agree with what he has to say however there's no point in selectively misquoting him, the article should be looked at in it's entirety rather than distilled to a selective misrepresentation.

qwertplaywert

bean wrote: »

are not fit for publishing.

But who gets to decide that?

bean

XJR wrote: »

If there's going to be a discussion about it lets at least get it right; what he said was . .

They are now -- one way or another -- virtually all giving aid to or investing in Africa, whereas Africa, with its vast savannahs and its lush pastures, is giving almost nothing to anyone, apart from AIDS.

He is in fact trying to make a broader point which it seems is being missed, his second paragraph give a clue when he says:

So why on earth should I do anything to encourage further catastrophic demographic growth in that country?

He does however go on to explain that this thought is tempered by both his conscience and the imagery or "another wide-eyed child".

The real point of his article is to question why the west should pour money into countries when it is not really improving them but is instead he says perpetuating the current situation.

I am not saying I agree with what he has to say however there's no point in selectively misquoting him, the article should be looked at in it's entirety rather than distilled to a selective misrepresentation.

I agree with the idea that countries should not pour money blindly into corrupt regimes who make their citizens suffer. However this is not the tone of the article or the damning title of the article.

bean

qwertplaywert wrote: »

But who gets to decide that?

Statements that are untrue or inaccurate are unpublishable according to the press council