Buggiest game ever??

evil-monkey

Is football manager the buggiest game ever??

Supposedly FM09 has given rise to boycotting petitions in light of people becoming increasingly p*ssed off with the amount of bugs.

Is it a question of, as soon as a decent competitor hits the shelves, FM is goosed??

It appears FM09 is just as bug ridden, if not more so, than its predecessors. Any thoughts??

TheAlmightyZeus

Bug-ridden? Really?

I have noticed a few small bugs in the game but nothing serious. The game hasnt crashed once and I'm enjoying the game very much. FM's only real competitor is Championship Manager and that nowhere close to FM. People need to be patient, there will be a patch released and the bugs will be fixed.

glenjamin

Haven't come across anything 'big', just a load of little bugs which are really p!ssing me off!

evil-monkey

TheAlmightyZeus wrote: »

People need to be patient, there will be a patch released and the bugs will be fixed.

but you see that's the thing. for 40 quid of your money you shouldn't have to be patient. you wouldn't pay for a meal that wasn't cooked!! Football Manager has always been riddled with bugs. its success hinges purely upon the fact that, as you pointed out, it has no decent competition.

glenjamin wrote: »

Haven't come across anything 'big', just a load of little bugs which are really p!ssing me off!

exactly. the first patch alone listed off dozens of fixes that had to be made.

TheAlmightyZeus

evil-monkey wrote: »

its success hinges purely upon the fact that, as you pointed out, it has no decent competition.

Not true. Its a successful franchise because it is a great game. FM will always have bugs, if you have played the previous years then you will know that there are a few patches released to fix them. I havent found any bugs that have stopped me playing the game in any way.

glenjamin

Even though its only been out for 2 day and they've already released a patch I think that they could do with releasing another.

Sometimes when you try to make a game too good it becomes bad.

pierrot

to be honest i cant believe that theyve released it as it is. If anyone else has tried to use it on mac, you will have notices that there is a bug with the right click function getting stuck, and the game basically freezes by the time you enter your first game. not good enough

Mitch Connor

been playing on the PC, and while i'm annoyed that i can't get my team to play well, i haven't noticed any problems with the game.

kippy

pierrot wrote: »

to be honest i cant believe that theyve released it as it is. If anyone else has tried to use it on mac, you will have notices that there is a bug with the right click function getting stuck, and the game basically freezes by the time you enter your first game. not good enough

Install the patch,
That issue with the mouse is one which has been specificilly fixed (allegedly)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055418839


I havent played it much yet but the game did lock up last night after about 20 minutes play. Will play it another bit later and see how it goes.The first patch they released seemed to fix a shed load of issues and like almost ANY piece of software now it could be another patch before everything has been fixed.
Its pretty harsh to single out the makers here when the trend with software has been to release it as it is and patch to resolve any issues that crop up. Everything from operating systems (Including non MS ones), Office productivity Suites and even BIOS' get patches and updates in order to improve stability and in this instance the makers have done nothing that is different from the norm. It is a pity, but nothing different from other software releases and other manifestations of this game for the past few years.

Daemonic

I'm sure in an ideal world the games creators wouldn't release knowing their software had bugs but with the games industry now being bigger than the movie industry in terms of revenues they can't delay a release. All the promotional work has been done and to delay now is even more unthinkable than releasing a buggy game.
Doesn't make it right, but thats just the way it is. Games are victoms of their own success.

leninbenjamin

kippy wrote: »

Its pretty harsh to single out the makers here when the trend with software has been to release it as it is and patch to resolve any issues that crop up.

it's not harsh. you will find that the industry does not condone it and by and large it is severely discouraged. The general trend is that it tends to happen with the very strong IPs, who's developers it has to be said tend to get very lazy and sloppy over time as they already have something of a guaranteed sale. MS for example messed up the release of Vista doing crap like this, although i think you'll find they've admitted their errors and are doing everything possible to ensure the release of Windows 7 doesn't fall foul of the same bad practices. In the short run companies with strong IPs can get away with this, but let it happen a few times in a row and watch the value of a strong IP fade to nothing...

I'm really surprised though that Microsoft allowed this game to pass their QA and assume the 'Games for Window's' label. If this had to go through Sony QA there's no way it would have been released in it's current state.

Eamo87

Is anybody else having problems with the 3d match? I only have it set for showing goal replys but it just doesnt work. The screen freezes for a good few minutes and then just returns to the match. Ive turned off the replys now. Im just wondering if anyone else has this problem.

glenjamin

Eamo87 wrote: »

Is anybody else having problems with the 3d match? I only have it set for showing goal replys but it just doesnt work. The screen freezes for a good few minutes and then just returns to the match. Ive turned off the replys now. Im just wondering if anyone else has this problem.

The 3d match engine was doomed from the start. Lots of people complaining about it.

pierrot

kippy wrote: »

Install the patch,
That issue with the mouse is one which has been specificilly fixed (allegedly)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055418839

they havent released one for mac yet i think

evil-monkey

TheAlmightyZeus wrote: »

Not true. Its a successful franchise because it is a great game. FM will always have bugs, if you have played the previous years then you will know that there are a few patches released to fix them. I havent found any bugs that have stopped me playing the game in any way.

i have played Football Manager since Championship Manager 3, and I have never come across one that at some point didn't reach a point where I had to wait a few weeks for a patch before I could play on. It is totally unacceptable, and FM2009 seems to be no different. The level of patching required in FM2009 to make it playable is beyond anything I have ever seen. And how they can repeat this year after year is beyond me; where do they get their developers from?? It is a successful franchise, and sure a great game were it not for the bugs. But if there was a game close to it that was developed properly, FM would die a very sudden death.

pierrot wrote: »

to be honest i cant believe that theyve released it as it is. If anyone else has tried to use it on mac, you will have notices that there is a bug with the right click function getting stuck, and the game basically freezes by the time you enter your first game. not good enough

exactly. how they release them in the state they are, every year, is a wonder. they have never, as long as i can remember, gotten one bug free. and I'm not talking about the small bugs, i'm talking about the dump crashes that occur at the same point every season and keep you from playing the game for 3 weeks.

Daemonic wrote: »

Games are victoms of their own success.

a good point. the fact is, FM is going to sell, and make money, even if it is riddled with bugs. until there is a game as good as it, playability wise, they can continue with their amateur production, and continue to make money. i don't know though, after FM2008's numerous major bugs, and the early ones emerging in FM2009, I'm curious to see how the sales of next year's rendition will go...



this forum alone has dozens of people complaining it is crashing, they can't get it installed, they need a patch etc etc etc...go onto the FM official forums, and there are 1000s of people with problems. it's the same every year. maybe not so during the early days of the game. but the last 4 or 5 or so have been absolutely atrocious when it comes to bugs. I'd like to think that I've played most games out there, and I've never come across something as buggy a FM...

Legend_DIT

I haven't got FM09 yet but isn't it the case that the game is too openended and so the fans who buy on the first day become games testers that are paying for the privilege. I think it normally takes two patches before the game is mostly free of problems and if past indications are anything to go by this will be after Christmas.

In all honesty, for them to get the game released without problems on schedule would require a huge testing staff imo, and they have been well served by doing it this way for so many of the FM releases why would they bother?

evil-monkey

i think pierrot summed it up nicely with this comment;

Given that the game as it is doesn't actually work, I'm considering bringing it back.

Well said...

kippy

leninbenjamin wrote: »

it's not harsh. you will find that the industry does not condone it and by and large it is severely discouraged. The general trend is that it tends to happen with the very strong IPs, who's developers it has to be said tend to get very lazy and sloppy over time as they already have something of a guaranteed sale. MS for example messed up the release of Vista doing crap like this, although i think you'll find they've admitted their errors and are doing everything possible to ensure the release of Windows 7 doesn't fall foul of the same bad practices. In the short run companies with strong IPs can get away with this, but let it happen a few times in a row and watch the value of a strong IP fade to nothing...

I'm really surprised though that Microsoft allowed this game to pass their QA and assume the 'Games for Window's' label. If this had to go through Sony QA there's no way it would have been released in it's current state.

To be honest, I havent had any problems from the start apart from the initial delay in getting downloaded. I havent noticed any bugs as of yet however due the the nature of the game there are going to be issues which patches resolve. Almost every game I have ever played has had initial bugs and issues and pretty much ANY operating system and major piece of software I have ever used (MS and Non MS for that matter) has had similiar issues which patches have resolved (including the much lauded XP).
Granted, I appreciate the frustrations of many here but I would rather pay 40 odd euro for a slightly buggy but fixed with patches game than the probably 150-200 for a perfect working piece of software from the start (which is nigh on impossible for the genre of game this is)
Kippy

evil-monkey

kippy wrote: »

Granted, I appreciate the frustrations of many here but I would rather pay 40 odd euro for a slightly buggy but fixed with patches game than the probably 150-200 for a perfect working piece of software from the start (which is nigh on impossible for the genre of game this is)
Kippy

ya but the thing is, every other game for 40 bucks is satisfactory. Football Manager isn't. the majority of other developers wouldn't tolerate their product hitting the shelves in such a state; year after year...

Eamo87

If anybody is having problems with the 3d match, i fixed mine by simply updating the drivers on my laptop. I hope this helps anyone else who had problems with viewing the match.

Pompey Magnus

I'm a few seasons into the game now and I haven't had any major problems (except for the installation). An improvement I have noticed is that there doesn't seem to be near as many disallowed goals from set pieces compared to the last game, I could almost expect one or two goals per game to be ruled out in FM08 because of fouls on the keeper, this seems to be resolved.

All that said, I do have the invisible man in my Reserve squad:

Frisbee

Some times the game crashes on me when I click 'Submit Team' the first time after turning it on. Just means i have to exit out and load it up again.

evil-monkey

Frisbee wrote: »

Some times the game crashes on me when I click 'Submit Team' the first time after turning it on. Just means i have to exit out and load it up again.

which is totally unacceptable if ya ask me...

kippy

evil-monkey wrote: »

which is totally unacceptable if ya ask me...

Yeah totally,
I mean the developers should specificilly make sure that their games works perfectly on every single hardware and software configuration out there......
Or perhaps they should aim to be as cross platform as possible (aiming for the game to work on as much hardware as possible) the spend some time developing patches for the game to work on the other software and hardware configurations.....
Kippy

evil-monkey

kippy wrote: »

Yeah totally,
I mean the developers should specificilly make sure that their games works perfectly on every single hardware and software configuration out there......
Or perhaps they should aim to be as cross platform as possible (aiming for the game to work on as much hardware as possible) the spend some time developing patches for the game to work on the other software and hardware configurations.....
Kippy

what they should do is make sure their game works on whatever platforms it is that they are releasing it on - like other developers do. if you pay 40quid for a game - it should work. a bug or two here or there - fine - all games require the odd patch. but the level at which footie manager has taken patching requirements to - and every single year without fail - is unacceptable. just look through threads across boards and other forums; people are actually returning this game they are so fed up with it!!

kippy

evil-monkey wrote: »

what they should do is make sure their game works on whatever platforms it is that they are releasing it on - like other developers do. if you pay 40quid for a game - it should work. a bug or two here or there - fine - all games require the odd patch. but the level at which footie manager has taken patching requirements to - and every single year without fail - is unacceptable. just look through threads across boards and other forums; people are actually returning this game they are so fed up with it!!

Are you fully aware of what you are saying?
When you speak of platforms you no doubt are refering to Xbox,PS3, and ""PC"".
The XBOX and PS3 have standard hardware and software running on them, hence it is easy to test.
Then you get to the PC level......where MOST of the issues occurs. There are countless combinations of hardware and software on PCs and its NOT POSSIBLE to test the game on all incarnations of PC. The best they can do is test on the most common setups and advise of a "required specification" I dont think you are grasping this concept.
There are hundreds of games out there on PC that will play up in certain circumstances be it incompatible hardware, driver software or application (such as antivirus software) running on the PC.
And to quantify, I personally have had NO issues with this game since I bought it and no major issues that I've noticed on any of the last few incarnations of it either....

Kippy

evil-monkey

kippy wrote: »

Then you get to the PC level......where MOST of the issues occurs. There are countless combinations of hardware and software on PCs and its NOT POSSIBLE to test the game on all incarnations of PC. The best they can do is test on the most common setups and advise of a "required specification" I dont think you are grasping this concept.

i "grasp this concept" very well. as do most game developers who have produced games that haven't had the issues that football manager does. it's not a question of testing the game on all incarnations of the pc - the majority of FM bugs are ingame, careless errors on the part of the coders. as regards hardware, obviously, you can't test on every system configuration; but you don't have to. without getting into the specifics of pc hardware configuration, which would belong in another forum, software does not need to be tested on every single configuration, so i'm not sure what your point here is.

the key point here is this; if other PC game developers can develop games of a high standard, SI should be expected to as well.

you have had no issues - thousands of people have. thousands. it's not a case of the odd person here and there, there have been online petitions set up about FM2009, the SI forums are jammed with complaints. people are returning the game in droves, sick of waiting for patch after patch. and, on a much smaller note, the majority of people in this thread agree that it is ridden with bugs...

Gonzovision

I had absolutley no installation issuses with this game nor have I come across anything more than the odd minor bugs.

I am running this on 3 pc's and it has yet to crash. This is not a buggy game. I have played far worse.

kippy

evil-monkey wrote: »

i "grasp this concept" very well. as do most game developers who have produced games that haven't had the issues that football manager does. it's not a question of testing the game on all incarnations of the pc - the majority of FM bugs are ingame, careless errors on the part of the coders. as regards hardware, obviously, you can't test on every system configuration; but you don't have to. without getting into the specifics of pc hardware configuration, which would belong in another forum, software does not need to be tested on every single configuration, so i'm not sure what your point here is.

the key point here is this; if other PC game developers can develop games of a high standard, SI should be expected to as well.

you have had no issues - thousands of people have. thousands. it's not a case of the odd person here and there, there have been online petitions set up about FM2009, the SI forums are jammed with complaints. people are returning the game in droves, sick of waiting for patch after patch. and, on a much smaller note, the majority of people in this thread agree that it is ridden with bugs...

PC hardware and software is a key element in testing games. I am sure you'll agree that producing games for PC costs far more than the other platforms you speak off due to the amount of testing needed.
Are you a developer who has worked specificilly on this product? If so, can you advise how these "careless errors" are not related to PC hardware and software interactions?
I aint saying that games need to be tested on every specific hardware and software config, just pointing out the difficulty in doing this.

I think you'll find that in general, those with issues with something will always shout loudest (fair enough says I) but that general means that those that dont really dont say anything. You only see one side of the story....the thousands of people who have issues COULD be dwarfed by the silent MILLIONS that don't, putting the actual percentage of issues to a very low level....(Most threads on this site are in general complaints about something or a product, very few actually endorsing something)

There appear to be more and more people getting on this thread who are having no issues at all......

evil-monkey

kippy wrote: »

Are you a developer who has worked specificilly on this product? If so, can you advise how these "careless errors" are not related to PC hardware and software interactions?

list of fixes for the first patch...pretty much 90% of that just down to sloppy developing. ie; invisible player, player getting to register twice for nationality etc etc...

kippy wrote: »

I think you'll find that in general, those with issues with something will always shout loudest (fair enough says I) but that general means that those that dont really dont say anything. You only see one side of the story....the thousands of people who have issues COULD be dwarfed by the silent MILLIONS that don't, putting the actual percentage of issues to a very low level....(Most threads on this site are in general complaints about something or a product, very few actually endorsing something)

There appear to be more and more people getting on this thread who are having no issues at all......

i wouldn't use this thread as an example, as you are correct in saying, the majority of people here with gripes are here for that purpose. but go to the SI forums, where people do tend to get together to talk about the game in general. the amount of people complaining is huge.

and though you claim you haven't had any problems with FM2009, every single person who bought the game did in fact have all these problems from day one;





Crash Fixes
===========
- Fixed crash when claiming the same player from the MLS Waiver Draft more than once

General
=======

- Stopped holiday option applying for jobs at lower division clubs when the user is in charge of a national team
- Stopped players been delighted to have signed a new contract when they are just out on loan
- Stopped non-managerial staff members being marked in landmarks as "Manager <x> leaves <team>" when they take on a manager role at another club
- Don't get asked to appoint club captain immediately when taking over a club if the season is over already
- Fixed Fastest Goal club record not updating
- Stopped manager who sets "International Player" experience having more caps and/or goals than the record holder(s) of that nation
- Fixed Dutch virtual players showing the Dutch language twice in their list of languages in the player personal profile
- Detail Level now remembered correctly for reserve competitions after loading a saved game
- Fixed bug where user would sometimes not be able to team talks to be controlled by assistant manager

Interface
=========
- Team History screen tables now remember scrollbar position when moving between teams
- No more unnecessary spacers on the Quicklinks bar when unemployed
- No more invalid column error in player trials history
- Edit boxes scroll to the cursor
- Transfer listing a player on a team tactics screen now updates the status flags for that player
- Fixed bug where swapping players with light and serious injuries on the tactics panel caused both players to show in the serious injury colour
- Fixed bug where shirt numbers on team tactics panel were clashing with the background colour
- Managers of B clubs now have the option to allow assistant manager to take control of friendlies
- Fixed the stadium condition information label which was showing "unknown" for several stadiums
- When viewing the draw for the Euro Cup group phase, the groups are now shown correctly
- Fixed home/away floating panels not remembering positions.
- Standardised layout of motivation, team ratings and match stats floating panels
- Removed player condition from key player widgets when viewing previous matches as highlight data does not contain condition data
- Fixed missing match time when viewing previous matches.
- Added home page menu item to bookmarks menu.
- Characters no longer sometimes print twice after a key press in full screen mode
- Fixed competition news icon indicator link going to inbox.
- Altered colour of cannot play status icon for non injuries and suspensions
- Any player sent off whilst the user is changing tactics is now removed from the pitch panel
- Fixed a bug where sometimes when changing captain in a match the wrong player would be shown as captain on the player ratings panel
- Fixed bug which would cause the past meetings table to become sorted incorrectly
- Fixed bug where the tooltip on the captain selection panel would say 'Vice-Captain' for all entries below the vice captain
- Fixed bug where some people’s names on the club favoured personnel list would be underlined when they could not be viewed
- Fixed players not playing as strikers being listed on the milestones list during a goal drought
- Fixed bug where players in a reserve team were shown on a squad screen regardless of the filter set.

Match Viewer
============
- Fixed some kick animations not being played
- Fixed possibility of commentary being displayed half a second early unintentionally
- Match time slider can now be used to view the whole match and not just highlights
- Removed assistant feedback link from the match screen when team has no assistant manager present
- Tweaked the assistant feedback for tactical suggestions on opposition instructions at the start of the match
- Fixed assistant manager commenting on language barriers when most of the team is of same (foreign) nationality
- Tweaked the assistant manager feedback levels based on attributes
- Fixed some kit clash issues
- Fixed bug where user isn't taken back to a highlight in split view after making tactical changes
- Fixed bug where if a human watching a match leaves, then comes back, the match time slider was not showing the correct highlights/periods
- Behaviour of team name links in match screen is now consistent across views
- Fixed not being able to go to Tactics screen at half time in extra time in TV view
- Fixed text difference "TV View"/"TV Mode"
- Fixed injury times in the TV view match report widget not fitting properly
- Fixed links in offence notifications
- Fixed linesman’s flag appearing in pop ups for fouls
- Fixed a bug when a tactical change made during a match highlight would sometimes cause the match highlight to disappear from the match time slider.
- Fixed a bug where the team stats panel on the match screen would sometimes not update if the user paused the match then switched to this panel.
- If user views highlights of an old match in the middle of a current match, the current match shows the correct kits in 3d when the user returns
- Fixed user not being able to go to tactics screen at half time in extra time in TV view
- Fixed layout of goal update widget
- Fixed mismatching hint text for tactics button in TV View
- Fixed floating widgets jumping when setting up TV View
- Tactics buttons in TV View go to team talk at full time
- Added hints to the TV View tactics buttons
- Fixed replay speed slider not being visible on classic view
- Added replay speed to TV View
- Fixed "Live" button not updating when dragging highlight slider to non-highlight area
- Exits replay properly when user sets playback to live using method other than "Exit Replay" button
- Fixed scoreboard showing wrong data during match setup when viewing matches from Intro screen

Sounds
=======
- Fixed half time whistles and some other sounds occasionally playing twice when watching a match

Network
=======
- Fixed game freeze when user joins a network game using an empty IP address
- Fixed bug where a match between two human managers may not carry on after a forced tactic change is made

Manager/Player Interaction
===================
- Can no longer train goalkeepers to rifle in free-kicks unless they are a free-kick taking goalie (e.g. Rogerio Ceni)
- Can now discipline players in your reserves and U18's for being sent off in a match
- Fixed problem if a player outright rejects learning a new PPM, you then have to wait a long time before you can request that they learn a new PPM

Player Happiness
================
- Players on loan no long get low morale because they are transfer listed at their parent club

Media
=====
- Fixed bug where the wrong host for the next Confederations Cup was being announced
- Stopped repetitive "Backs manager to win new contract" news item after every game when manager is near the end of his/her contract
- Fixed player bio talking of player having 'done well to come back from serious injury' when the injury wasn't particularly serious
- Fixed match report bug which states that the match 'started tentatively' for the wrong team
- Fixed some grammatical errors in strings
- Fixed some female strings

Press Conferences
=================
- Don't ask question about long gap between games for non-active sides
- Will no longer be asked a question about needed to spend money to gain success outside of transfer windows
- Questions about who will win the title come up less frequently
- Questions about who will win the title not asked when destination of title has already been decided
- Fixed fairly rare occurrence when journalists would ask a follow-up question that had already been asked in the same press conference
- Fixed instance of user being asked who will win the title too often
- Fixed rare instance where journalists would think a score draw was 0-0
- Stopped people from having to interrupt their Christmas dinners to take a press conference
- Assistants now answer opposition dangerman questions
- Fixed bug where extra time and penalty goals not shown in player reaction to post match press conference
- Fixed bug where AI manager could rarely attend a pre-match press conference twice
- Fixed bug where Assistant attending press conference would be asked the same questions in consecutive conferences quite often
- Fixed bug where the PR reactions weren't showing after your assistant takes a press conference
- Made sure you always attend a new job press conference before any other type of press conference
- Stopped big players responding to comments from small club managers
- Fixed defender being chosen as possible threat in a question

Transfers
=========
- Sell-on fees cleared also when the next transfer includes no cash
- Stopped relegated teams offering players well below their asking prices
- Stopped teams make a loan offer for a player despite the fact that he will be injured for the next 4 to 5 months
- Stopped clubs repeating same transfer offer over and over again with no sign of giving up or improving offer
- Stopped clubs initially bidding basic value for key/first team players if no asking price has been set
- Stopped clubs who haven't previously bid on a player from bidding below previously rejected offers of the same type from different clubs
- When a club reject loan bid due to low wage contribution but user is offering to pay 100%, the real reason is that the buying club is a divisional rival
- Stopped Chairmen inappropriately accepting bids because they are "too good to refuse" at high reputation clubs
- Fixed teams reject original offer for a player but after an enquiry they will accept less

Scouts
======
- Fixed a bug when managing Tottenham, scout reports on Jermain Defoe would suggest he "would be a good signing for most League One sides"

Managerial Sackings/Appointments
================================
- Fixed clubs hiring and firing 3 times in 5 days due to manager contract expirations
- Ensured managers who have had a poor start but given time by the board don't get fired once they have been there a short while and are gradually improving the terrible league position

Club Reputations
================
- Club reputations rising instead of dropping properly when a team gets relegated

Contracts
=========
- Fixed wages asked and wages allowed for Israeli players aged 18-21 in Israel
- Fixed low reputation player rejecting contract offer as he wants a more lucrative salary, but he is being offered exactly what he is asking for

Finances
========
- Fixed custom expenditure setup in the database from spiralling when renewed
- Adjusted cash balances of inactive clubs with sugar daddies
- New MLS kit sponsorships only to start after the first season
- Adjusted MLS wage budgets to allow budgets higher than the cap
- Tweaks to club bankruptcy limits and chairmen willingness to cover losses
- Enabled loans setup in the DB to have future repayment start dates in the game
- Adjusted building costs of new stadiums in developing countries
- Adjusted stadium sponsorship deals for new stadiums
- Adjusted the high end wages in France
- Adjusted the level of extra wage budget board will allow at rich clubs if requested and accepted
- Adjusted the Belarus league ticket prices to better match the values set in the DB
- Fixed Huddersfield season ticket prices and sales to revert to normal levels after the first season where season tickets are on special sale

Board Takeovers
===============
- Non-active clubs now have chairman changes listed on their history landmarks panel
- Improved board takeover frequency and balance
- Fixed issue where board members weren't moving/leaving clubs properly, previously identified by corrupted club records e.g. Bobby Charlton at Man Utd
- Increased chance of ambitious directors becoming chairmen at other clubs
- Improved selection of nationality for tycoon chairmen
- Slightly reduced reputation boost for consortium and tycoon takeovers
- Fixed bug where B clubs where having board takeovers.

Miscellaneous
=============
- Fixed some Hints and Tips
- Fixed Danish Tutorial headline
- Updated Credits

Nationalities
============
- Players can now gain Hong Kong citizenship
- Fixed Brazilian player is considered as Home Grown for an English side despite only joining them six weeks ago
- Fixed bug where a Non-EU player wouldn't want to gain British nationality

Competitions
============

International

---

- East Timor get placed in a valid group in Asian Under 20 Championships Qualifiers
- African Cup of Nation hosts for 2010, 2012 and 2014 added
- Paraguay South American U-20 2009 hosts
- Fixed CONCACAF World Cup Qualifiers being played on the wrong dates in the first season causing fixture clashes with league games
- Vietnam now doesn’t qualify directly for Asian Nations Cup 2011 as they take part in the qualifiers
- Fixed Asian/Oceania World Cup Qualifying playoff for 2010 World Cup clashing with club league fixtures
- Fixed International friendlies incorrectly played 13th August 2008
- Correct age rules used when picking squads for U21 European Championships
- South American U20 Championship winners now get an achievement added

North America

---

- Correct teams now entered for the CONCACAF Champions Cup in 2008

Asia
----
- Fixed North Korea host the Asian President's Cup.

Australia

---

- Australian Institutes should not receive any compensation when Youth contract players move.
- Fixed bug in A-League (regular season) where wrong team is mentioned as the winner of the competition

Bulgaria

---

- Bulgarian TV revenue update.

Croatia

---

- Updated Croatian First Division, Second Division and Cup schedules

Czech Republic

---

- Amended Czech Summer Transfer Window

Denmark

---

- Fixed Danish Premier Division scheduling clashing with the Euro competitions

England

---

- Fixed there being no TV games on the last day of the season in the English Championship
- Fixed duplicate 'long term loan' rule sentence in the rules screen for the Blue Square North/South
- English Conference leagues now deduct 10 points for teams going into administration
- Community Shield no longer called the "Community Shield Final"
- England's away game against Andorra in September 2008 should be played at Espanyol's stadium
- Should not have to register players for reserve team matches

Finland

---

- Premier/ Division 1 schedule update
- Finnish Cup third round added

France

---

- French transfer window changed to 01/09/2008 for the first season
- French cup match squad must have no more than four non-EU players
- French League 2 maximum two non-EU players in squad
- 5 subs can be named in French cup until 1/4 finals, 7 from 1/4 finals onwards
- French league cup final set to Saturday 25/04/09
- French National schedule updated
- French loan rules updated
- Fixed French U18 Cup amount of subs
- Ligue 1 Midweek TV dates added

Greece

---

- Updated Greek Prize Money

Iceland

---

- Fixed Icelandic league dates

Indonesia

---

- Indonesian Prem/First schedule updated

Israel

---

- Promotion/Relegation Play-off Matches 1 leg 2009/2010 onwards
- Israeli Leagues minimum Stadium capacities changed
- Fixed transfer window

Italy

---

- Updated Coppa Italia Serie C Third Round Schedule
- Avellino's 3 point deduction cancelled

Mexico

---

- Fixed an issue which sometimes qualified the wrong team for the NACL

Norway

---

- Fixed incorrect text being used for maximum number of non home grown players rule
- Removed home-grown player match rules for Norwegian 2nd division

Romania

---

- Fixed teams being allocated to the wrong Romanian Second League Group

Russia

---

- Changed Premier Division squad rule to U21 instead of U20 and moved the age check day to 31st December

Scotland

---

- Fixed Scottish Second Division relegation playoffs are played on the incorrect dates

Singapore

---

- Last 4 sets of fixtures not played at the same time
- Changed the display order of Singapore competitions

South Korea

---

- Fixed duplicate and incorrect disciplinary rules for South Korean competitions

Spain

---

- Fixed Spanish 2nd Division B - Promotion playoff to 2nd Division draw

Sweden

---

- Added prize money for Swedish Premier League teams

Turkey

---

- Fixed Turkish teams not being able to sign Foreign based U18 players with Turkish nationality
- Turkish B-style feeder club relationships now send more players on loan each year

United States

---

- Allocation funds from sales outside the MLS are now correctly awarded
- Fixed an issue which sometimes qualified the wrong team for the NACL
- Fixed wrong prize money in US Cup
- Increased AI teams interest in players inside the Superdraft
- Generation Adidas players no longer require the user to offer them a contract as they now get give one automatically
- Stop players requesting contract clauses that can't be offered in the MLS
- Stopped teams signing players from the Development League when the player hasn't already been in a draft
- Designated players no longer reject terms they ask for
- AI teams should increase their transfer activity to sign Designated Players
- Stopped AI teams from going over the squad restrictions

Uruguay

---

- Fixed bug where a team may get a Uruguayan First Division championship achievement both after winning the Playoff match and the Championship match
- Basáñez removed from Uruguayan Second Division

Match Engine v725

---

- Fixed throw in taker being over pitch line when throwing
- Fixed players standing 2 yards outside area at penalties instead of right on line
- Improved short free kicks taken at 30 yards out or more
- Fixed commentary stating distance of shot when scoring from clean through at edge of area
- Created some limited ball and player movement When players stand and hold ball up waiting for options
- Reduced ratio of serious injuries compared to light ones in match
- Reduced instances of players not closing down ball player slightly
- Fixed bug where player could be described by commentary and animation as taking a throw in during open play
- Made team shape support ball player a little better when attacking
- Fixed bug where defenders continued marking strikers too long when ball clearly in their teams possession
- Encouraged certain players to try risky dribble when out of options in attacking area
- Encouraged shot when player cutting in at edge of area and on good foot ( or confident )
- Made players attack penalty area quicker when team mate is on wing and in crossing position

Match v726

---

- Removed some confusion created by small deflections that can cause players to react illogically
- Fixed rare bug where keeper can fumble save as result of foul off ball between 2 other players
- Reduced extreme curve on kicks with high target point
- Improved perception of when player is in semi clean through situation
- Fixed players clean through drifting too wide too easily
- Fixed bug where player chasing ball can suddenly move at superhuman speed
- Made defenders a little more careful about going to ground prematurely
- Made players a little more willing to turn having received ball to face opposition goal depending on tactical instructions etc
- Toned down number of shots on target slightly
- Fixed players making unnatural passes similar to how it works for shots in v724

Match v727

---

- Fixed dodgy use of squad rotation by some teams mid season
- Increased accuracy of ball to player deflections
- Fixed AI managers being overly defensive in some lower league games
- Fixed AI managers illogical use of 424 when no need
- Fixed occasional instance of goalkeeper not picking ball up when able to
- Fixed possibility of lesser goalkeepers parrying ball that is easy to catch
- Fixed rare instance of keeper leaving save until ball is already over the line
- Lowered number of passes ahead of team mates that give receiver too much to do to get there
- Player marking post at corner will now leave it to mark free opponent who is near if no-one else can do it
- Player marking opponent with ball near own corner flag now positions better to block the cross
- Less shots from free kicks in wide areas
- Encourage run with ball when acres of space to move into
- Encourage pass to player in more advanced position when attacking
- Reduced instances of player kicking ball against opponent for throw in unrealistic position
- Slight reduction in shots going over bar rather than wide
- Slight reduction in condition drop through match
- 3 man midfield or attack with no wide players now spreads more when in possession

Match v728

---

- Made AI managers with low attacking ratings a little less negative at home when not underdogs
- Fixed some saves described as superb when they were routine
- Stopped some instances of defenders trying to move in for tackle before they are in position
- Made players a little more likely to cross when well placed to do so
- Made players a little more likely to shoot when well placed to do so

Match v729

---

- Stopped players deserting the player they had stayed back to mark at their own team's corner
- Fixed AI managers making illogical subs when players get injured in the first half
- Fixed possibility of throw in causing immediate throw in for opposition due to v725 moving taker behind the line
- Fixed tackle in own area triggering illogical "must score" commentary
- Made players more likely to shoot first time when presented with close range chance
- Made players more likely to lay ball off first time when back to goal and under pressure
- Fixed keeper dropping ball to avoid taking it out and then taking too long to recover and grab it again
- Made attacking minded players a little more adventurous when running with ball in opposition territory
- Stopped players taking ball under control when its too far from their feet
- Made players in defensive wall more likely to block ball
- Fixed players in defensive wall not facing ball
- Fixed bug where player sometimes stands close to but never picks up a motionless ball
- Fixed keeper changing mind about letting ball run out at last minute and as a result fumbling it and risking losing it to attacker
- Fixed bug causing keepers not to dive on some penalties
- Toned down effectiveness of penalty takers in pressure situations like shootouts
- Fixed bug where player can get near zero match rating for no obvious reason
- Fixed bug where player makes pass to team mate that is too hard for him to pick up
- Tuned v727 change to 3 man midfields in possession
- Improved position of 3 man midfields when out of possession

Match v730

---

- Made players a little more effective when clean through on goal
- Reduced players "running through" opponents to win back ball
- Made keepers a little better and more likely to make effort to save ball at least
- Fixed bug where keepers allow back passes that are deflected to go into goal

Match v731

---

- Fixed keeper coming for backpass and missing it altogether
- Fixed match getting stuck assert due to bug in receiving ball code
- Fixed player diving and moving for ball while diving animation plays out
- Fixed player standing still with ball for ages and ignoring obvious pass
- Further small tweak on # of injuries

Match v732

---

- Fixed striker diving to head ball out of keepers hands when yards away
- Fixed back header being hit unnaturally powerfully in for own goal






Now I removed from that most of adjusted etc things, tweaks to the game that are just tweaks. But 90% of what's left (I got bored going down through the list) were FIXES!! Things that were wrong with the game. And how many more patches are there to come?? How long were the MAC users waiting for the patch so they could play the game at all??

CiaranC

Thats not a long list of bug fixes. Most of these are trivial, cosmetic and to be expected.

Youve obviously never worked on a software project.

Also, your claims of 'every other €40 game just works' is hilarious. Im running the game on old hardware, on XP embedded, with hardly any drivers with ZERO issues.

evil-monkey

CiaranC wrote: »

Thats not a long list of bug fixes. Most of these are trivial, cosmetic and to be expected.

no, they are bugs that require fixes. fixes are not cosmetic, adjustments and tweaks are. fixes are not.

CiaranC wrote: »

Also, your claims of 'every other €40 game just works' is hilarious. Im running the game on old hardware, on XP embedded, with hardly any drivers with ZERO issues.

but if you were using a MAC you'd probably be still waiting to play it. and yes, most games do work from the offing. at least to some level of playability. the volume of people that can't say this for Football Manager is totally unacceptable.

Seanot

just because it's working for ye. for the majority of people it isn't. this game is amateur. bug ridden and amateur!

Vokes

Seanot wrote: »

just because it's working for ye. for the majority of people it isn't. this game is amateur. bug ridden and amateur!

Sorry, that's untrue. As has been said by a previous poster, for the majority the game is working just fine.

You will only hear complaints from the minority for whom teh game is not working well or not working at all. And complaining is fine - if you're having issues, then a person has every right to complain and get their issue sorted.

However, the others - the silent majority - you're not hearing from them cos they're away happily playing the game!

---

Just to add to the ontopicness - I don't believe FM09 is the buggiest game ever. Putting aside the DRM issue, I remember FM08's initial release being much much worse than '09. The closing-down bug was a complete showstopper in 08. The FM2009 release puts it to shame.

kaimera

Game continually freezes on gameday while in fullscreen mode.

Only fix I've found is to run in windowed mode :rolleyes: Not how the game is to be played.

Running the 9.1 patch as well.

Gonzovision

kaimera wrote: »

Game continually freezes on gameday while in fullscreen mode.

Only fix I've found is to run in windowed mode :rolleyes: Not how the game is to be played.

Running the 9.1 patch as well.

Happened to me once. Try hit the windows key to minimize it and click it in the taskbar. Hasn't happened me since.

evil-monkey

SofaK wrote: »

Sorry, that's untrue. As has been said by a previous poster, for the majority the game is working just fine.

You will only hear complaints from the minority for whom teh game is not working well or not working at all. And complaining is fine - if you're having issues, then a person has every right to complain and get their issue sorted.

However, the others - the silent majority - you're not hearing from them cos they're away happily playing the game!

perhaps the game is working fine the majority. but the volume for which it isn't is still unacceptable imho...

kaimera

gonzovision wrote: »

Happened to me once. Try hit the windows key to minimize it and click it in the taskbar. Hasn't happened me since.

windows key doesnt do anything.

I have to ctrl+alt+del and access task manager and even then I cant tab to the desktop.

x64 vista business btw.

pablomakaveli

My version was freezing up a lot. I went to graphics and unchecked the box with 3D next to it and i have'nt had any problems since.

evil-monkey

60 - 40 in favor of it being too bug ridden...

kippy

60 - 40 in favor of it being too bug ridden...

Eh, so what does that tell us then??

evil-monkey

kippy wrote: »

Eh, so what does that tell us then??

that the majority of people here think it's too bug ridden...

kippy

Eh No.....
It means that 23 people out of a total of 36 (people who have decided to reply to a poll on one website) so far believe it to be the "buggiest game ever"
I would argue that to properly make that a fact one would have to have played every single game "ever".
I know for a fact it is by far nowhere near the worst (buggy) game I have ever played.
Kippy

leninbenjamin

kippy wrote: »

I know for a fact it is by far nowhere near the worst (buggy) game I have ever played.
Kippy

I also know for a fact that I've seen more amateur mods with better QA than the last few football manager releases. now why should a bunch of hobbyists, most of whom would have proper 9-5s be able to build a more reliable game than what is one of the best selling commercial series of all time (well for PC anyway afaik)?

evil-monkey

kippy wrote: »

Eh No.....
It means that 23 people out of a total of 36 (people who have decided to reply to a poll on one website) so far believe it to be the "buggiest game ever"

:rolleyes: eh ya...that would be what majority means...

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I also know for a fact that I've seen more amateur mods with better QA than the last few football manager releases.

+1. very good point.

kippy

"Buggiest game ever" is not what people are voting for here....to suggest so is to suggest people here have played every single game ever, which I think you'll agree is suggesting a bit much.
Also, the "majority" you suggest is of a total of less than 40 people. Do you think that only 40 people out of the total usergroup of boards (a few hundred thousand I think) have bought the game?
As I said, you'll only ever hear the negative comments, those who are happy out with their experience have nothing to complain about and in general you wont hear from them.

evil-monkey

kippy wrote: »

"Buggiest game ever" is not what people are voting for here....to suggest so is to suggest people here have played every single game ever, which I think you'll agree is suggesting a bit much.

What people are voting on is the question; "Is Football Manager too bug ridden??" As you can see if you read the poll...it's the question just over where you click yes or no...

kippy wrote: »

Also, the "majority" you suggest is of a total of less than 40 people. Do you think that only 40 people out of the total usergroup of boards (a few hundred thousand I think) have bought the game?

I never said it was the majority of every person who plays the game. I simply said it was the majority of people here in this poll. Which it is. I don't know why you have majority in inverted commas - it is a majority. More people have said Yes than No - what exactly is the confusion here? Is that not a majority?

I wanted the opinion of people on boards playing this game, hence the poll. If I wanted the opinion of every FM player on the planet I'd probably have taken a different route. Whenever I post on boards.ie I'm looking for the opinion of people on boards.ie, I would have thought that's why any of us come here at all...

kippy wrote: »

As I said, you'll only ever hear the negative comments, those who are happy out with their experience have nothing to complain about and in general you wont hear from them.

Which everyone here accepts. The point many people have been making is that this fact doesn't take from the high volumes of people who do complain and do have issues with the game. No one is suggesting that there aren't people happy with the game. The problem is, there are thousands who aren't.

happyoutscan

I bought it by download and it seems ok although a couple of minor glitches are obvious.

I don't know anything about the online gaming aspect of this game though, can anyone give me a bit of info? I'd be interested in joining an irish CM09 community (etc) but have no idea how. Any help?

kippy

evil-monkey wrote: »

What people are voting on is the question; "Is Football Manager too bug ridden??" As you can see if you read the poll...it's the question just over where you click yes or no...



I never said it was the majority of every person who plays the game. I simply said it was the majority of people here in this poll. Which it is. I don't know why you have majority in inverted commas - it is a majority. More people have said Yes than No - what exactly is the confusion here? Is that not a majority?

I wanted the opinion of people on boards playing this game, hence the poll. If I wanted the opinion of every FM player on the planet I'd probably have taken a different route. Whenever I post on boards.ie I'm looking for the opinion of people on boards.ie, I would have thought that's why any of us come here at all...



Which everyone here accepts. The point many people have been making is that this fact doesn't take from the high volumes of people who do complain and do have issues with the game. No one is suggesting that there aren't people happy with the game. The problem is, there are thousands who aren't.

Eh, whats the thread title?

Three peope in a room. Two say that black is white. The majority say black is white, therefore black is white. Discuss.

Beau

Is it a bug when your assistent says every game that the gap between defence and midfield is to big?

evil-monkey

kippy wrote: »

Eh, whats the thread title?

Three peope in a room. Two say that black is white. The majority say black is white, therefore black is white. Discuss.

:rolleyes: oh well, now that you put it that way...

If you're trying to argue that the majority of people here didn't think the game was too bug ridden then you my friend have an up hill struggle. The name of the thread hasn't much to do with it. The poll's question is pretty clear.

Exactly what is your issue here?? That the majority of people were against your opinion, or do you still have issue with the concept of majority??

I just don't see the confusion - I stuck up a poll, people gave their opinion. That opinion came down some 60% in the favor of Yes - Football Manager is too bug ridden. Do you not think the poll is valid?? Do the opinions of the 40 or so that voted not count?? As I said earlier, I was looking for a gauge of what FM fans on boards thought, and felt that this was the best option. I think the results are pretty clear.