why don't not single file or at least give way??

baza1976

Hi all,

Why oh why don't ye people on bikes move over when ye here cars comng behind ye??

ALright, I know you have just enough right to be on the road as anyone .. Which i agree with. But just some respect would be lovely:)

today (not for the first time :mad:) while driving the Newport to Limerick road there were a bunch of people on bikes,at least 8 of them with all the fancy gear . Thsi road is a single carriage i.e. one lane each way. They were taking over the entire lane. I waited for tehm to move into single file, nothing happened (i'm right behind them at this stage doing 15 MPH!), then there is a pub on a bend where they could have pulled in with out having to stop and i could have been on my merry way......... but no...... I have my wife and 3 kids in the car so I'm not going to take a chance and over take with on coming traffic.......... Anyway after 10 minutes of looking at their ar##s there was an opening on the road where i had a chance to over take safely.. I'll also point out that there was approx 12 cars waiting behind me...

Do you realise what potenial for an accident this kind of cycling could cause. On this road and others I have come across (many times) 2 people on their bikes cycling 2 abreast !!! why for the sake of a second can one not pull behind another ????

TinyExplosions

Oh dear....

harly1516

Seen the same a hundred times no respect for other users what so ever I dont care what any one says they should read the rules of the road

petethedrummer

You're legally entitled to cycle 2 abreast and it is often safer. Anyways all road users are guilty of not obeying the rules of the road. Which is partly caused by attitude and partly caused by the state of our roads.

I could go to the motoring section and write a complain about how motorists drive in the cycle lanes but it would be futile. You'd be better served if you wrote a letter of complaint to your local authorities/councillors about how this road can't accomodate both cyclists and motorists.

In the meantime seeing as how all cyclists are part of a grand conspiracy to hold up motorists, we'll pass on your comments to the Limerick division.

Lumen

harly1516 wrote: »

I dont care what any one says

Why would you bother using boards if you were not interested in what other people have to say?

Is the internet just a wall over which you vomit your opinions on the way back from the pub?

baza1976 wrote: »

I have my wife and 3 kids in the car so I'm not going to take a chance and over take with on coming traffic.......... Anyway after 10 minutes of looking at their ar##s there was an opening on the road where i had a chance to over take safely..

I understand and share your frustration. However....

The ROTR site also says:

You should give extra space when overtaking a cyclist, as they may need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles. This is particularly important on wet or windy days.



In this picture, you see that the car is overtaking slightly into the oncoming lane. If you have oncoming traffic, there is not sufficient space for this, so you will have to "squeeze" the cyclist(s) as you go past. Additionally, if there a long line of them, during your overtake you may find that the traffic conditions change and you are forced to move back in, at best encroaching on the safe space, and at worst knocking off the cyclists at speed.

This is why cyclists tend to "take the lane" - it forces a safe overtake (rather than an unsafe skim) so bad things are less likely to happen. If you have to use the oncoming lane, it really doesn't matter how wide the group is.

The only problem for you is that you were held up for a few minutes. If the cyclists all got off their bikes and did the same as you, you'd end up stuck in more Sunday traffic, which you hold you up too. I mention this only because cyclists don't usually hold up traffic overall - they create a "temporary hole" in the traffic in front which soon fills up when the overtake is complete. Over the course of a long journey, you're more likely to be held up by the dithering old idiots doing limit - 20kph on a dry sunny day than a bunch of cyclists, so best just to chill out a bit.

All that said, I always go to single (or at least double) file when there is traffic, depending on the road width, number of lanes etc.

Chips Lovell

harly1516 wrote: »

I dont care what any one says they should read the rules of the road

Perhaps you should

S.I. No. 182/1997:ROAD TRAFFIC (TRAFFIC AND PARKING) REGULATIONS, 199747.

(1) A pedal cyclist shall not drive a pedal cycle on a roadway in such a manner as to result in more than two pedal cyclists driving abreast, save when overtaking other pedal cyclists, and then only if to do so will not endanger, inconvenience or obstruct other traffic or pedestrians.


(2) Pedal cyclists on a roadway shall cycle in single file when overtaking other traffic.

cyclopath2001

baza1976 wrote: »

Why oh why don't ye people on bikes move over when ye here cars comng behind ye??

OK, so, henceforth cyclists will give way to motorists and motorists will no longer park on roads.

kenmc

baza1976 wrote: »

Hi all,

Why oh why don't ye people on bikes move over when ye here cars comng behind ye??

ALright, I know you have just enough right to be on the road as anyone .. Which i agree with. But just some respect would be lovely:)

today (not for the first time :mad:) while driving the Newport to Limerick road there were a bunch of people on bikes,at least 8 of them with all the fancy gear . Thsi road is a single carriage i.e. one lane each way. They were taking over the entire lane. I waited for tehm to move into single file, nothing happened (i'm right behind them at this stage doing 15 MPH!), then there is a pub on a bend where they could have pulled in with out having to stop and i could have been on my merry way......... but no...... I have my wife and 3 kids in the car so I'm not going to take a chance and over take with on coming traffic.......... Anyway after 10 minutes of looking at their ar##s there was an opening on the road where i had a chance to over take safely.. I'll also point out that there was approx 12 cars waiting behind me...

Do you realise what potenial for an accident this kind of cycling could cause. On this road and others I have come across (many times) 2 people on their bikes cycling 2 abreast !!! why for the sake of a second can one not pull behind another ????

What an absolutely rediculous post. You come on here asking about a specific incident, the chances of any of us being in are so remote!

First of all a group of cyclists like that 'in all the fancy gear' are easily capable of maintaining 35-40kmh, which is a lot more than your 15mph you claim to be stuck at. This is also faster than a lot of tractors and elderly people drive at - who would you go moaning at if that was a tractor and trailer or an OAP you were stuck behind rather than a group of cyclists?

Secondly if the road is so narrow that you could not perform a safe overtaking manouver, then you should not attempt an overtaking manouver.If you were not able to overtake a group of cyclists then you would not have been able to overtake a single cyclist/tractor/OAP either

Thirdly, you go on about how the cyclist should have done this and could have done that - but why? Why should they pull into a pub just to let you get past? You're the one in the hurry, why should they put themselves out?

Why don't you ask yourself other questions. Like why you didn't leave the house one minute earlier than you did, then you would possibly have been ahead of the cyclists all day! Why didn't you ask the oncoming traffic to stop for you, so you could overtake the cyclists safely. Why don't you go and ask all the other drivers in the country why they insist on overtaking cyclists so dangerously that the cyclists feel they need to bunch up to protect themselves? Why don't you go and get the driving skills needed to perform a safe overtaking manouver at 15mph like you say you were going - at that speed it would be a very quick overtake.

mikemac

This rant isn't uncommon. Every summer the motors forum is full of threads venting about tractor drivers and why oh why won't they get off the roads.

Hey OP, if every cyclist got pissed off and drove cars everywhere, you'd soon be wishing they were back cycling when the traffic problems worsen.
They are doing you a favour even if you can't see it

A cyclist being overtaken on a narrow road could very well get clipped by your wing mirror if you try to force your way past. And it's a disaster waiting to happen if you overtake a long line of cyclist and you have to veer to the ditch if a large vehicle is oncoming.
By cycling two abreast this forces traffic to wait for a suitable overtaking opportunity. Much the same way as you'd wait for a suitable overtaking place for other traffic.

You wouldn't try to squeeze past an OAP on a Sunday morning drive or a tractor so why is it ok to squeeze past a cyclist?

And for the record, this happens scooters every day in cities as drivers accelerate and squeeze past them, even in the same lane :mad:
Defensive driving ftw!

Hermy

The OP is talking about a bunch of cyclists taking up an entire lane and causing a backlog of traffic. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the cyclists to cycle in single file for a brief distance to allow the vehicular traffic to pass. Unfortunately, as with many other road users, there are plenty of cyclists who only think of themselves.

baza1976

kenmc wrote: »

What an absolutely rediculous post. You come on here asking about a specific incident, the chances of any of us being in are so remote!

First of all a group of cyclists like that 'in all the fancy gear' are easily capable of maintaining 35-40kmh, which is a lot more than your 15mph you claim to be stuck at. This is also faster than a lot of tractors and elderly people drive at - who would you go moaning at if that was a tractor and trailer or an OAP you were stuck behind rather than a group of cyclists?

Secondly if the road is so narrow that you could not perform a safe overtaking manouver, then you should not attempt an overtaking manouver.If you were not able to overtake a group of cyclists then you would not have been able to overtake a single cyclist/tractor/OAP either

Thirdly, you go on about how the cyclist should have done this and could have done that - but why? Why should they pull into a pub just to let you get past? You're the one in the hurry, why should they put themselves out?

Why don't you ask yourself other questions. Like why you didn't leave the house one minute earlier than you did, then you would possibly have been ahead of the cyclists all day! Why didn't you ask the oncoming traffic to stop for you, so you could overtake the cyclists safely. Why don't you go and ask all the other drivers in the country why they insist on overtaking cyclists so dangerously that the cyclists feel they need to bunch up to protect themselves? Why don't you go and get the driving skills needed to perform a safe overtaking manouver at 15mph like you say you were going - at that speed it would be a very quick overtake.

HI Kemmc,


I was only asking for a reason as to why they wouldn't cycle single file or make way.

I can see the way they were thinking now. You have opened my eyes. I must say that i'm surprised, I thought people on bikes were alright....... Do they all have your attitude???

baza1976

Hermy wrote: »

The OP is talking about a bunch of cyclists taking up an entire lane and causing a backlog of traffic. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the cyclists to cycle in single file for a brief distance to allow the vehicular traffic to pass. Unfortunately, as with many other road users, there are plenty of cyclists who only think of themselves.

Hi Hermy,
A voice or reason and understanding. I was begining to think my post made no sense.

Thank you,

tunney

baza1976 wrote: »

HI Kemmc,


I was only asking for a reason as to why they wouldn't cycle single file or make way.

Research has proven that it is safer for cyclists to be two abreast than single file. Thats the reason that on most roads I won't single out. I value my safety over your convience.

Macha

baza1976 wrote: »

Hi Hermy,
A voice or reason and understanding. I was begining to think my post made no sense.

Thank you,

Well done for ignoring all the other sensible posts and clinging onto the one other poster who agrees with your unfounded rant.

I think this quote is relevant:

If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.

Bertrand Russell
British author, mathematician, & philosopher (1872 - 1970)

baza1976

tunney wrote: »

Research has proven that it is safer for cyclists to be two abreast than single file. Thats the reason that on most roads I won't single out. I value my safety over your convience.

Relax Tunney,

I wasn't so worried about my convience. I was more worried about my wife and 3 kids thats why i waited!!!

What if it was a driver who wasn't thinking about the safety of his passengers or other people and decided to take a chance!!!! what then??it would ave taken bout 10 seconds at most for me to pass?? Maybe It is people like me who are worried about safety, and the cyclists who are more worried about convience!!!

Depends on what side of the fence you are on.

where is this research you mention??

baza1976

taconnol wrote: »

Well done for ignoring all the other sensible posts and clinging onto the one other poster who agrees with your unfounded rant.

I think this quote is relevant:


Bertrand Russell
British author, mathematician, & philosopher (1872 - 1970)

Well that quote would speak for every opinion on boards...

I didn't ignore all other posts... just see how many i have replied to.. thats not how you ignore!!!!

penexpers

baza1976 wrote: »

I wasn't so worried about my convience. I was more worried about my wife and 3 kids thats why i waited!!!

If you weren't so worried about your convenience then you wouldn't have started this thread in the first place.

Hermy

Am I the only cyclist here who thinks it is not unreasonable for a bunch of cyclists causing obstruction to vehicular traffic to cycle in single file to allow said traffic to pass safely?

penexpers

Hermy wrote: »

Am I the only cyclist here who thinks it is not unreasonable for a bunch of cyclists causing obstruction to vehicular traffic to cycle in single file to allow said traffic to pass safely?

It depends on the quality of the road. If it's a twisty, narrow country road, no way. If it's straight, wide road then I would be inclined to think that cyclists should single file.

baza1976

penexpers wrote: »

If you weren't so worried about your convenience then you wouldn't have started this thread in the first place.

If you bothered to read the start of this thread I never mentioned the word convenience I mentioned saftey... It was a cyclist who was the first to worry about convenience...

This is all petty talk. I asked a question as to why there was such behavour and I gave an example as to a situation I encountered yesterday.

I now have an answer. I have no need to come back and read this thread.

Thank you to all who have given their opinion.

Hermy

penexpers wrote: »

It depends on the quality of the road. If it's a twisty, narrow country road, no way. If it's straight, wide road then I would be inclined to think that cyclists should single file.

On a twisty, narrow country road I wouldn't cycle in a bunch as on-coming traffic is gonna be a problem.
But regarding my question, yeah, I obviously mean allowing traffic to pass where it is safe to do so.

Dimitri

As a motorist who covers over 500 miles a week going to and from work i've found that a large portion of cyclists and motorist have absolutely no respect for each other nor have they any idea how to handle the situation when they meet each other on the roads. I always make a point of pulling over briefly and allowing a car who is travelling quicker behind me to pass when i feel it is safe to do so and in my experience most lorry, truck and tractor drivers will do the same, sadly the elderly don't seem to believe in it but thats another story for another thread. However in my experience and i stress that it is only what i've experienced the more professional looking cyclists never show any intention of showing basic courtesy to other road users and allowing them past. Now prehaps its jus the group i come across that seem intent and making my journey home slow and painful because its always appearrs to be the same riders and on the same road at the same time a few times a month. But it appears to me that the seem to think they owe absolutely no courtesy to other road users simply because they are competitive, which as far as i'm concerned is a load o bollucks. Now i agree that cycling two abreast is necessary but do you as a cyclists think it is reasonable or necessary to occupy an entire lane on a busy stretch of road and do you do it?

311

I'm more of a driver than a cyclist ,given I need a van for work.

Theres always the risk when you overtake a cyclist ,that an oncoming car will force you to force them off the road.
If there is a few cyclists ,cycling together. Then you need a definite clearing to overtake and it's safer for everyone.

The only roads that would cause problems for drivers,would be winding roads and thats when cyclists are most at risk.

CheGuedara

Just back from a small spin to see this thread and I know I'm a late joiner but I'm compelled to post.

baza1976 wrote: »

But just some respect would be lovely:)

harly1516 wrote: »

Seen the same a hundred times no respect for other users what so ever

Hermy wrote: »

Unfortunately, as with many other road users, there are plenty of cyclists who only think of themselves.

Lots of demands for respect here but not an iota being shown, and a smilie stuck in such an inflammatory post does nothing to diffuse it. And it is clear that the only reason this thread exists is that some motorists only think of themselves

You say you were delayed for the eternity of TEN, count 'em - TEN whole minutes over a stretch of road of something near 18km by a group of club cyclists cycling in what in the sport is called a 'chain gang'. This particular formation is regarded as one of the safest ways to train and maintains a group in a compact, cohesive bunch in which sharing the work allows the group to travel faster.

I have had friends get brushed by fast moving passing cars and it is a truly shocking experience and as Lumen has said paired cycling

forces a safe overtake (rather than an unsafe skim)

, rather than allowing a speeding motorist to skim by which in the event of a bad stretch of road or gust moving a cyclist from their line could result in tragedy.

baza1976 wrote: »

(i'm right behind them at this stage)

I suspect this is where you went badly wrong. I am a club cyclist. My group when out training will cycle single file if the road is narrow enough to require it i.e. small, winding etc, or drop to single file AT A POINT OF OUR CHOOSING WHEN IT IS SAFE FOR US TO DO SO, but if a motorist comes up behind us and tailgates us (a pointable offence) that blatant lack of consideration or concern is taken into consideration in our actions.

By the way as you may or may not be aware, you are required with cyclists as with other road users allow adequate safe distance beween the road user in front of you and your vehicle

baza1976 wrote: »

Anyway after 10 minutes of looking at their ar##s there was an opening on the road where i had a chance to over take safely..

At this point you are actually complaining about obeying the rules of the road. Now, two members of my club are members of the Gardai, and have on the rare occasion recorded the misbeahaviour of motorists. I suspect we are not the only club in the country that can say the same - something to consider in future when tailgating a group of cyclists.

harly1516 wrote: »

I dont care what any one says they should read the rules of the road

You should, as tonto suggests, also familiarise yourself with the Rules of the Road. Here is a link the the .pdf document http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/pdf-downloads/english/rules-of-the-road%20eng.pdf. Now, there's some Sunday reading for you, section 19 pp.172-174. I can post a link to the legislation itself if you're interested in the nitty gritty. This may also worth your perusal http://www.penaltypoints.ie/the_full_list_of_offences.php

baza1976 wrote: »

Maybe It is people like me who are worried about safety, and the cyclists who are more worried about convience!!!

A fantastical claim considering the initial post and a weak attempt at saving face considering the concern shown over a 10 minute delay posted initially.

Cyclists are entitled to cycle within the rules of the road in a fashion that optimises their safety. This often includes cycling two abreast. Many and indeed most groups of cyclists are courteous to other road users and will move to single file when it is reasonable and safe to do so. However courtesy cuts both ways - a fact which many motorists do not want to admit when it is put to them especially regarding cyclists. Tailgating, intimidatory driving and dangerous overtaking is certainly far from courteous or safe

Bunnyhopper

baza1976 wrote: »

Hi Hermy,
A voice or reason and understanding. I was begining to think my post made no sense.

So only people who happen to agree with you are reasonable, and anyone who disagrees is either unreasonable or doesn't understand your sensible post? Hmm.

The cyclists were proceeding in a manner that was appropriate for their safety. Perhaps you don't cycle and consequently don't understand what is and is not safe for a group of cyclists. You were correct to wait until it was safe for you to overtake, so you clearly have a good sense of what's safe for you to do as a driver. If you were also a cyclist then you might have a similar understanding of the situation from the cyclists' point of view. Some people here have tried to explain that perspective to you, but you don't seem inclined to listen. I'd suggest that that is quite unreasonable on your part and shows some lack of understanding (and of a genuine willingness to try to understand).

We all get delayed by other people, but to come onto this forum and start complaining about how cyclists had the audacity to delay you and then to dismiss some quite sensible responses as unreasonable or ignorant is, frankly, rude.

I could go on to a motoring forum and post some tetchy complaints about how I'm delayed and inconvenienced by motorists. What good would it do? Not much, particularly if I was unwilling to engage sensibly with the responses. (If I had a bad temper then it might let me vent some of my frustration: is that what this is about for you? Is this misguided anger management by way of forum posting?)

Do some cyclists behave badly or inconsiderately? Yes, of course. The same is true of other road users. I drive as well as cycle, and I try to consider situations from the perspectives of other road users. The worst thing about posts like yours is that they entrench us-and-them thinking of the least constructive sort.

If you want understanding and respect from cyclists then you could start by showing some yourself, and a good way to start might be to listen and engage constructively with the responses to your post.

RobFowl

I am a driver and a cyclist. When out I usally cycle 2 abreast. This makes motorist overtake you rather than simply drive by forcing me into the gutter!!
From Baza1976's comments he/she (prob he with that attitude !) it was too dangerous to over take but he wanted to anyway. Good driving !!!!!

Deisetrek

311 wrote: »

I'm more of a driver than a cyclist ,given I need a van for work.

Theres always the risk when you overtake a cyclist ,that an oncoming car will force you to force them off the road.
If there is a few cyclists ,cycling together. Then you need a definite clearing to overtake and it's safer for everyone.

The only roads that would cause problems for drivers,would be winding roads and thats when cyclists are most at risk.

I think the bottom line to this debate is that this motorist's impatience/ frustration or whatever exact wording he prefers to use has the potential to kill .... My frustration ( as a cyclist)on the road behaviour of a motorist certainly has less than no chance of fatal consequences , whereas his frustration could potentially kill somebody .
Whilst I cycle alone ,and not in a group, I find it hard to sympthatise with this guy knowing how we are generally treated by a minority of motorists .

Hermy

I think the bottom line is that the OP's initial question still hasn't been answered.
Why do cyclists not cycle in single file to allow vehicular traffic to pass by safely?

Macha

Hermy, do you really need someone to spell.it.out.for.you?

Lumen wrote: »

The ROTR site also says:

You should give extra space when overtaking a cyclist, as they may need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles. This is particularly important on wet or windy days.



In this picture, you see that the car is overtaking slightly into the oncoming lane. If you have oncoming traffic, there is not sufficient space for this, so you will have to "squeeze" the cyclist(s) as you go past. Additionally, if there a long line of them, during your overtake you may find that the traffic conditions change and you are forced to move back in, at best encroaching on the safe space, and at worst knocking off the cyclists at speed.

This is why cyclists tend to "take the lane" - it forces a safe overtake (rather than an unsafe skim) so bad things are less likely to happen. If you have to use the oncoming lane, it really doesn't matter how wide the group is.

kenmc wrote: »

Secondly if the road is so narrow that you could not perform a safe overtaking manouver, then you should not attempt an overtaking manouver.If you were not able to overtake a group of cyclists then you would not have been able to overtake a single cyclist/tractor/OAP either

Thirdly, you go on about how the cyclist should have done this and could have done that - but why? Why should they pull into a pub just to let you get past? You're the one in the hurry, why should they put themselves out?

<snip>
Why don't you go and ask all the other drivers in the country why they insist on overtaking cyclists so dangerously that the cyclists feel they need to bunch up to protect themselves?

micmclo wrote: »

A cyclist being overtaken on a narrow road could very well get clipped by your wing mirror if you try to force your way past. And it's a disaster waiting to happen if you overtake a long line of cyclist and you have to veer to the ditch if a large vehicle is oncoming.

By cycling two abreast this forces traffic to wait for a suitable overtaking opportunity. Much the same way as you'd wait for a suitable overtaking place for other traffic.

311 wrote: »

Theres always the risk when you overtake a cyclist ,that an oncoming car will force you to force them off the road.
If there is a few cyclists ,cycling together. Then you need a definite clearing to overtake and it's safer for everyone.

The only roads that would cause problems for drivers,would be winding roads and thats when cyclists are most at risk.

CheGuedara wrote: »

You say you were delayed for the eternity of TEN, count 'em - TEN whole minutes over a stretch of road of something near 18km by a group of club cyclists cycling in what in the sport is called a 'chain gang'. This particular formation is regarded as one of the safest ways to train and maintains a group in a compact, cohesive bunch in which sharing the work allows the group to travel faster.

I have had friends get brushed by fast moving passing cars and it is a truly shocking experience and as Lumen has said paired cycling , rather than allowing a speeding motorist to skim by which in the event of a bad stretch of road or gust moving a cyclist from their line could result in tragedy.

I suspect this is where you went badly wrong. I am a club cyclist. My group when out training will cycle single file if the road is narrow enough to require it i.e. small, winding etc, or drop to single file AT A POINT OF OUR CHOOSING WHEN IT IS SAFE FOR US TO DO SO, but if a motorist comes up behind us and tailgates us (a pointable offence) that blatant lack of consideration or concern is taken into consideration in our actions.

By the way as you may or may not be aware, you are required with cyclists as with other road users allow adequate safe distance beween the road user in front of you and your vehicle

<snip>

Cyclists are entitled to cycle within the rules of the road in a fashion that optimises their safety. This often includes cycling two abreast. Many and indeed most groups of cyclists are courteous to other road users and will move to single file when it is reasonable and safe to do so. However courtesy cuts both ways - a fact which many motorists do not want to admit when it is put to them especially regarding cyclists. Tailgating, intimidatory driving and dangerous overtaking is certainly far from courteous or safe

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

The cyclists were proceeding in a manner that was appropriate for their safety. Perhaps you don't cycle and consequently don't understand what is and is not safe for a group of cyclists.

RobFowl wrote: »

I am a driver and a cyclist. When out I usally cycle 2 abreast. This makes motorist overtake you rather than simply drive by forcing me into the gutter!!

If you can't find the answer in there...

Cyclists do it because:

a) they have every right to, according to the rules of the road
b) it goes some way towards guaranteeing their own safety by ensuring that a motorised vehicle only overtakes when it is completely safe to do so

penexpers

Hermy wrote: »

Why do cyclists not cycle in single file to allow vehicular traffic to pass by safely?

Because maybe in this case the cyclists felt it wasn't safe?

baza1976

HI I hope you enjoyed your spin.

CheGuedara wrote: »

Just back from a small spin to see this thread and I know I'm a late joiner but I'm compelled to post.







Lots of demands for respect here but not an iota being shown, and a smilie stuck in such an inflammatory post does nothing to diffuse it. And it is clear that the only reason this thread exists is that some motorists only think of themselves

I'm sorry you thought it was "inflammatory". I was only asking a question and given an account of waht happened

You say you were delayed for the eternity of TEN, count 'em - TEN whole minutes over a stretch of road of something near 18km by a group of club cyclists cycling in what in the sport is called a 'chain gang'. This particular formation is regarded as one of the safest ways to train and maintains a group in a compact, cohesive bunch in which sharing the work allows the group to travel faster.

I have had friends get brushed by fast moving passing cars and it is a truly shocking experience and as Lumen has said paired cycling , rather than allowing a speeding motorist to skim by which in the event of a bad stretch of road or gust moving a cyclist from their line could result in tragedy.



I suspect this is where you went badly wrong. I am a club cyclist. My group when out training will cycle single file if the road is narrow enough to require it i.e. small, winding etc, or drop to single file AT A POINT OF OUR CHOOSING WHEN IT IS SAFE FOR US TO DO SO, but if a motorist comes up behind us and tailgates us (a pointable offence) that blatant lack of consideration or concern is taken into consideration in our actions.

Who said i was tailgating. It's wrong of you to assume this. As I said in my first post i had my wife and kids in the car.. even when on my own safety is first in my mind!!!! I was more than a safe distance behind them. And as i also mentioned I waited for a safe time to over take

By the way as you may or may not be aware, you are required with cyclists as with other road users allow adequate safe distance beween the road user in front of you and your vehicle
See above;)

At this point you are actually complaining about obeying the rules of the road. Now, two members of my club are members of the Gardai, and have on the rare occasion recorded the misbeahaviour of motorists. I suspect we are not the only club in the country that can say the same - something to consider in future when tailgating a group of cyclists.

Again you are assuming. I was complaining about the rules of the road. If anything I abided by them. According to the rules of the road the cyclists should have moved over or made way when safe. There was a few times this coul have happened. And again you were very wrong to assume I was tailgating.



You should, as tonto suggests, also familiarise yourself with the Rules of the Road. Here is a link the the .pdf document http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/pdf-downloads/english/rules-of-the-road%20eng.pdf. Now, there's some Sunday reading for you, section 19 pp.172-174. I can post a link to the legislation itself if you're interested in the nitty gritty. This may also worth your perusal http://www.penaltypoints.ie/the_full_list_of_offences.php

If you read my opening thread you might ave guessed that I'm familer with the rules mentioned above. Was there anything my opening thread where I mentioned I broke these rules???




A fantastical claim considering the initial post and a weak attempt at saving face considering the concern shown over a 10 minute delay posted initially.


Cyclists are entitled to cycle within the rules of the road in a fashion that optimises their safety. This often includes cycling two abreast. Many and indeed most groups of cyclists are courteous to other road users and will move to single file when it is reasonable and safe to do so. However courtesy cuts both ways - a fact which many motorists do not want to admit when it is put to them especially regarding cyclists. Tailgating, intimidatory driving and dangerous overtaking is certainly far from courteous or safe

Where did I do this(re:Tailgating, intimidatory driving and dangerous overtaking)?? Are we on the same thread??? When did I make you assume I did any of them things you mention??

To repeat myself again I asked for peoples opinion as why they would not move over... Now you can nit pick through my opening thread an assume a lot of things. You can disagree with everything it's you choice.

For what it's worth I agree with a some of your points above esp being courteous and so on. I wonder was there anything on my opening thread you agreed with??

I applogise for the colour by the way. Still getting the hang of this.

Hermy

penexpers wrote: »

Because maybe in this case the cyclists felt it wasn't safe?

Absolutely agree with you penexpers when it isn't safe, but what about when it is safe and the group of cyclists still insist on taking up the entire lane? I don't believe it is appropriate for any road user to deliberately obstruct traffic without good reason.

Macha

Hermy wrote: »

That's a helpful comment.

You're right. I took it out. My apologies.

311

For anyone who has a problem with a group of cyclists ,be greatful it's not a 70 year old massey ferguson drving down the road ,with a stink that would knock you out blowing into your car.:D

72hundred

baza1976 wrote: »

I applogise for the colour by the way. Still getting the hang of this.

hah, the incident might have cost you 10 min's but reading and replying to this thread will cost you hours. haha.

DirkVoodoo

Wow, it almost seems like you are trolling the cycling forum, I mean is there an actual point to this thread?

I was dropping my brother to the bus the other night by car, came to the crossroads at foxrock village and stopped behind a megane at the red light.

A car was double parked at the lights, slightly obscuring the young woman pushing a pram who was waiting for the pedestrian filter.

The woman in front of me was obviously not paying attention, or maybe like you she assumed she had some God given right to do whatever she wants on the road and f**k anyone else, but the pedestrian lights all went green.

Cue the megane driver going straight throught the pedestrian light and turning right while the young woman pushing the pram looks on in disbelief as she begins to cross.

Now, aside from using this story to highlight what a fool you are, I did not go on to the boards motoring forum and post a topic about idiot drivers. Really what are you trying to achieve except rile the good people who use this forum to discuss bikes and cycling?

I see idiot drivers, cyclists and pedestrians everyday, I've done a fair few idiotic things myself while either cycling, driving or walking. Yes we need better understanding, better enforcement of the law, etc. but I really for the life of me cannot understand what your post is meant to highlight?

Dimitri

Personally i'm not bothered too much by the time spent waiting behind a group of cyclists, what i find far more frustrating is the extra concentration required to stay safely behind and to overtake them. However thats not really my issue with it as that can be said for being being a bad driver or a poorly loaded trailer or having some prick drive up behind with a headlight out of focus and so many other things. What i can't understand is the trend i've noticed in larger goups of cyclists to not show courtesy by making it easy for people to overtake instead choosing to take up an entire lane and on one occasion recently not to pull into the hardshoulder which really made me mad because it was on a national road at rush hour.

I see idiot drivers, cyclists and pedestrians everyday, I've done a fair few idiotic things myself while either cycling, driving or walking. Yes we need better understanding, better enforcement of the law, etc. but I really for the life of me cannot understand what your post is meant to highlight?

Apologies for jumping into this thread and fuelling things a bit but i'm genuinely curious as to why larger groups feel it necessary to take up an entire lane as opposed to cycling in single file or two abreast?

DirkVoodoo

If larger groups of cyclists start stringing out to let cars pass, invariably what happens is the idiot motorist who happens to be passing tries some dangerous overtaking and has to swerve back in between cyclists when he meets oncoming traffic. I have seen this happen a few times (most of you who I have cycled with know that I end up the back of the bunch!) and it is almost undescribably dangerous. Simply put, bikes dont have the braking capacity of a car and it is much safer for the cyclists to stay in a tight group than in a long single file.

Also, it is one of the rules of the eurocyclist not to show any emotion on your face, that is why they look like the don't care. Nothing personal.

This thread is boring, I'm going back to the xmas drinks one!

RobFowl

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Also, it is one of the rules of the eurocyclist not to show any emotion on your face, that is why they look like the don't care.

Dimitri

Well ya i can appreciate that i've seen a lot of overtaking being done that doesn't show the slightest understanding of the whole "when i pull out and floor i'll hit that car/corner up the road a lot sooner than at my current speed" ! But is it not possible to stagger the larger groups into say groups of 4 two abreast as opposed to an entire bunch to me at least it makes sense from both a safety and courtesy point of view. Also i have to ask and excuse my ignorance but why no emotion?

baza1976

hi Dirkvoodo, I wasn't highlighting anything. I was asking a question. If you had bothered to read any of the replies it would have saved you time on as you put it yourself posting on this "boring thread".
Also when you say" maybe like you she assumed she had some God given right to do whatever she wants on the road and f**k anyone else, but the pedestrian lights all went green" who is you? would it be me?? could you show me where i have given you that impression??

DirkVoodoo

baza1976 wrote: »

If you had bothered to read any of the replies it would have saved you time on as you put it yourself posting on this "boring thread".

baza1976 wrote: »

I now have an answer. I have no need to come back and read this thread

Please, stop trolling. The fact you came on here in the first place is all the proof I need. "Oh, some cyclists p***ed me off today, I know what I'll do, I'll go to the cycling forum and impart some of my wisdom to the uneducated masses".

Where is that ignore button again?

cyclopath2001

Dimitri wrote: »

But is it not possible to stagger the larger groups into say groups of 4 two abreast as opposed to an entire bunch to me at least it makes sense from both a safety and courtesy point of view.

Courtesy may be defined as doing something you're not legally obliged to do, so as to convenience others.

It's quite reasonable of you to request courtesy from cyclists.

What courtesy will motorists show in return?

Can I suggest not bringing a car into heavy traffic unless all seats in the vehicle are occupied? It's extremely frustrating when riding to work to find one's progress blocked the ludicrous amounts of road space used by single occupant cars.

Can I suggest not parking on the road? It adds to the hazards of cycling, having to overtake parked cars, often unavoidably obstructing following cars in the process.

Courtesy is a two-way street, gotta give some to get some.

kenmc

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Please, stop trolling. The fact you came on here in the first place is all the proof I need. "Oh, some cyclists p***ed me off today, I know what I'll do, I'll go to the cycling forum and impart some of my wisdom to the uneducated masses".

Where is that ignore button again?

Well said. He promised in Post 20 at 13:13 not to come back, yet here he is again and again.

baza1976

Hi Dickvoodo,
"some cyclists p***ed me off today, I know what I'll do, I'll go to the cycling forum and impart some of my wisdom to the uneducated masses". where you get this quote from? Didn't think this was the mind reading forum? I came on here to ask why would they not go single file or move aside. simple as that. I have got some good decent answers from both sides of the fence. And then I read some replies ranting and raving for me even thinking of coming into "their" forum and posting!!!

If that question offended you I'm very sorry for upsetting you.

Oh yeah.. you hang up first then I'll hang up

pipeliner

I had an incident a few years ago with a group of cyclists hogging the road with a hard shoulder on it. I felt that this was pure ignorance

baza1976

Hi Kenmc,

lol I tried not to come back. But I'm weak

kenmc

pipeliner wrote: »

I had an incident a few years ago with a group of cyclists hogging the road with a hard shoulder on it. I felt that this was pure ignorance

How so? It's illegal to drive on the hard shoulder.

pipeliner

they could have pulled in to let cars by. It was a straight stretch of road so their safety was more at risk on the road than the hard shoulder

Thomas_S_Hunterson

pipeliner wrote: »

they could have pulled in to let cars by. It was a straight stretch of road so their safety was more at risk on the road than the hard shoulder

:pac:

It's illegal to drive on the hard shoulder.

kenmc

pipeliner wrote: »

they could have pulled in to let cars by. It was a straight stretch of road so their safety was more at risk on the road than the hard shoulder

Fail to see the logic in this. A straight stretch of road is the safest place for a bike. cars can see for miles in both directions, so it's easy to spot a safe place to pass. They *could* have pulled in to let cars pass. Then a police man *could* have pulled them all over for breaking the rules of the road. They *COULD* also have driven instead of cycling. They *COULD* have picked a different route. They didn't. Should have/would have/could have whatever. Let it go. It happened years ago.