M7 - Nenagh to Limerick

limklad

Sponge Bob wrote: »

We have plenty of the shaggin things and this list does not include SACs or SPAs

Limerick

NHA 002186 - Grageen Fen & Bog

NHA 002361 - Moyreen Bog

NHA 002399 - Carrigkerry Bogs

NHA 002454 - Lough Gay Bog

Tipperary

NHA 000564 - River Little Brosna Callows

NHA 000640 - Arragh More Bog

NHA 000642 - Ballymacegan Bog

NHA 000648 - Killeen Bog

NHA 000652 - Monaincha Bog / Ballaghmore Bog

NHA 000890 - Cangort Bog

NHA 000937 - Scohaboy Bog

NHA 001684 - Lorrha Bog

NHA 001853 - Nore Valley Bogs

NHA 002385 - Mauherslieve Bog

NHA 002388 - Slievenamon Bog

NHA 002450 - Bleanbeg Bog

How many of those bogs are deep bogs? As Far as I am aware they are blanket (raised) bogs which are covered by previous old EU directives (EU Habitats Directive (92/43/EEC) not latest unimplemented Environment directives (Environmental Impact Assessment Directive The Environmental Impact Assessment Directive 85/337/EEC, as amended by 97/11/EC and 2003/35/EC) regarding development activities which are already old at this stage in which the EU Commission is hammering us about, see latest Dail debates on this in the post I mentioned earlier. I worried by Our Government continued incompetence that they will cost us more out of inaction of their part by not protecting the Environment as they agreed to do so, when they passed the EU Directives and regulations at EU Level over the last 20 years. We do not need this extra expense (fines) on our badly needed road building projects.

limklad

roosterman71 wrote: »

I know its technically a different matter, but its the same impact.

I'm sure when the preferred route was chosen that the NRA had all this checked out and that by building over the bog was not going to rile up the EU. This bog is not a raised bog as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong here) , and its the raised bogs that the EU are whinging about

The Road planners did not know that the bogs were deep bogs. No body did a proper survey of the two bogs in question. The Government was meant to implement many proper surveys along with many other environment & wildlife surveys as they agreed to do at EU Level.

If the Planners knew that these were deep bogs they would have planned a different route. It would probably save us all a lot of money in the long run (if the EU Fines us on it) and the road would have been opened by now.

Wild Bill

We have waaay too many bogs in this country. If we really want to "protect the environment" we should drain most of them. :cool:

A raised bog needs a basin to develop in - there may be one down there, somewhere. The blanket bogs grew down the slopes and the raised bog rose up to meet it. They mated.....forming... the.... BOG of DOOM :eek:

Carawaystick

I thought there were loads of threads complaining about there not bein enough bogs on our new motorways so the nra was spending millions building new ones at Lusk and Enfield....

I'll get me coat...

Wild Bill

Carawaystick wrote: »

I thought there were loads of threads complaining about there not bein enough bogs on our new motorways so the nra was spending millions building new ones at Lusk and Enfield....

I'll get me coat...

They are building bogs at Lusk and Enfield?! Very droll . They say sphagnum moss makes a great toilet paper substitute (I know some weird things). So I guess it all makes sense :cool:.

limklad

Wild Bill wrote: »

We have waaay too many bogs in this country. If we really want to "protect the environment" we should drain most of them. :cool:

We already did over the past two centuries. It is typical of people poor knowledge of history and ignorance of our environment. Here is a quick summary, Europe used to have many more bogs long ago. They destroyed them long ago as we did later during the last two centuries. Europe foolishly destroyed many environments and polluted many rivers over the last few centuries and they have been regretting it ever since.

Scientific research. We need the environment for scientific research. The bogs have been poorly researched. They may even hold cures for illness and cancers or even engineering advancements in the way they grow, like what happen in the Amazon Jungle where researchers found cures and medicines from the plants and insects there. Once you destroy the environment where rare plants grow, you may be killing your future chance of survival by killing the plant or insect that may have the cure of our future survival.

Weather and History. Bogs also hold key to our previous weather history since the plants do not decay as fast on normal soil, we can get the history of the weather over recent times and the type of plants that grew. Many ancient trees, bodies, jewellery, etc, have been found in bogs preserved.

C02 & Global Warming. It is estimated that the world’s peatlands contain more than three times the amount of carbon that is in the world’s tropical rainforests. Drain out this peatland and it will eventually start to rot and give off methane (worst than C02) and when it (carbon material) burns it will add more C02 into the Air adding to Global warming.

Wild Bill wrote: »

A raised bog needs a basin to develop in - there may be one down there, somewhere. The blanket bogs grew down the slopes and the raised bog rose up to meet it. They mated.....forming... the.... BOG of DOOM :eek:

Incorrect. The bog of doom formed within an ancient deep lake as we recently found out that it was deep. All the fauna and plants fell into it from it surrounding land and built it up forming the bog over many centuries from top down. The water within the bog slowed the decay of vegetation which led to the bog forming. It grew downwards as new plants grow on top forcing the previous plants growth down underneath it, into the water. This is an ongoing progress over time and because of this process which made the Dromin bog very difficult to build a road on since it is a deep bog as we recently found out.

Like most buildings which are built on Bogs, they must have a floating foundations, otherwise the house especially two story will sink into the bog. The house sitting on a foundations can move side to side over time depending on the slow movements of the bog, especially when it rains as it absorb water making it more fluid. This same effect is happening with the road as it settles. Early work on this road (M7) as soon as they dug out the peat, the following day or hours it filled in again with peat nearby and also when they put in piles, the pile disappears the following morning as it sank into the bog. Bogs has poor foundations as they float on water. It what happen in Galway a few years back when Wind farms where been built nearby. The (floating) roads construction that led to the Wind farm helped to unsettle the containments soil around the bog and that load shifted the bog around and heavy rains that October 2003 then triggered the slide down the hill causing devastation to houses, rivers and roads in it path. It diverted and polluted the river.

Building on any bog carries many risks. I bet the Road contractors are regretting they did not carry out a proper survey before signing the contracts.

Listen to the following mp3. It has some information and history of bog and it uses that our ancestors used bogs for. The Information in the early part of the mp3
http://www.slievebloom.ie/podcast/slievebloom.mp3

marmurr1916

limklad wrote: »

Building on any bog carries many risks. I bet the Road contractors are regretting they did not carry out a proper survey before signing the contracts.

I bet they're regretting the fact that they dismissed the advice of the locals not to build the road through the bog.

Bog ignorance I think it's called.

Wild Bill

limklad wrote: »

It is typical of people poor knowledge of history and ignorance of our environment.

Eeeeeasy on. I hazard I know as much about bogs, their history, formation and exploitation as you. Don't assume.

And knowing as much I doubt the prosperous and populous countries of Europe have any regrets about the exploitation and drainage of their bogs; creating the capital that led to our current prosperity. bar the usual handful of greens.

Certainly, were it not for Bord na Mona my ancestors would have had to leave Ireland in the 1950s. Regrets? Hardly. I celebrate the use we made of these otherwise useless expanses of land.

So I fully understand the points you are making and reject most of what you say as bog-standard ('scuse pun) Green gobbledygook.

I am prepared to go to an appropriate thread and tackle all the points you make in detail.

Deedsie

With the imminent opening of the Limerick Tunnel and the public now paying a toll to use the amazing new roads around Limerick. Does anyone think the NRA will be forced to give an update on the progress and estimated opening date of the Birdhill to Limerick stretch?

People will be a little annoyed to pay €1.80 and then have to drive on the crappy old N7 from finnegans roundabout to the birdhill roundabout.

gryff

Deedsie wrote: »

With the imminent opening of the Limerick Tunnel and the public now paying a toll to use the amazing new roads around Limerick. Does anyone think the NRA will be forced to give an update on the progress and estimated opening date of the Birdhill to Limerick stretch?

People will be a little annoyed to pay €1.80 and then have to drive on the crappy old N7 from finnegans roundabout to the birdhill roundabout.

Didnt stop them opening the Toll plaza on the M8 at Fermoy before the next section bypassing Mitchelstown was open ..now that was annoying..
I dont think the work being carried out at the Anaholty bog will take too long - they were working away today as I was passing.

The work they are doing seems to be casting a fairly hefty concrete platfrom strengthened by a lot of rebar...and this will sit on top of the numerous piles underneath... this is what they did on the Drominboy section ( see back to earlier pages on this thread to see pictures... think it was around last Dec) Question is why did they not do this at Anaholty in the first place..???

crappy pic was taken around an hour ago...

gryff

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62298458&postcount=459

Tech2's pics of the concrete platform that was cast in the Drominboy section of the motorway from last year ... This is what they are doing now at Anaholty I think...

DWCommuter

Carawaystick wrote: »

I thought there were loads of threads complaining about there not bein enough bogs on our new motorways so the nra was spending millions building new ones at Lusk and Enfield....

I'll get me coat...

I found a new one on the M8 south of Fermoy this morning. Cold and drafty, but it did the trick.;)

lukejr

gryff wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62298458&postcount=459

Tech2's pics of the concrete platform that was cast in the Drominboy section of the motorway from last year ... This is what they are doing now at Anaholty I think...

In August 2009 they started to get ready for the slab of concrete solution:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61604677&postcount=361


It was late March 2010 before the bog section was finished:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65118250&postcount=1221


That's 8 months from start to finish. Lets hope that they can finish the current section quicker, 100% of their energy should be going into just this 300m of road.

gryff

Ya.. i think they will finish a lot faster....they were blazing away tonight after 6... is that triple time?... couple of pics attached..

gryff

another one..

lukejr

Great photos, they are working flat out on this section alright. Hopefully they'll get the concrete poured soon.

Is there going to be expansion joints in the slab to stop it buckling, or is there a need for them in such a massive slab. Is it 300m long?

Carawaystick

While it's good to see work being done, the scene from the Quest for the Holy Grail where Michael Palin describes how his father built a castle and it sunk and then another one..... springs to mind, especially with the fresh piles...

Rovi

Carawaystick wrote: »

While it's good to see work being done, the scene from the Quest for the Holy Grail where Michael Palin describes how his father built a castle and it sunk and then another one..... springs to mind, especially with the fresh piles...

Here you go, first minute or so:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3YiPC91QUk

D.L.R.

Carawaystick wrote: »

While it's good to see work being done, the scene from the Quest for the Holy Grail where Michael Palin describes how his father built a castle and it sunk and then another one..... springs to mind, especially with the fresh piles...

Hehe exactly, or the Simpsons scene with Grandpa trying to free the other aul lad's beard from the pencil sharpening machine...

gryff

Carawaystick wrote: »

While it's good to see work being done, the scene from the Quest for the Holy Grail where Michael Palin describes how his father built a castle and it sunk and then another one..... springs to mind, especially with the fresh piles...

I know what you mean - they are putting in new piles to the side of the road ( left hand side facing Limerick) and to be honest it looks to the untrained eye as if they are just slamming them in where they can... while I was watching tonight they were bashing ( not sure what the technical term is here) a pile down and it was slow for awhile - then it dropped about 10 feet after one 'hit' as if it hit quicksand!.. all the was left was about 2 feet of pile above ground - he hit that a few taps and moved on !

gryff

lukejr wrote: »

Great photos, they are working flat out on this section alright. Hopefully they'll get the concrete poured soon.

Is there going to be expansion joints in the slab to stop it buckling, or is there a need for them in such a massive slab. Is it 300m long?

Ya.. about 300m ...the length of the working 'section' is about 500m..so there is about 100m either end of this concrete slab.. not sure about expansion joints as there is so much rebar... do you need to worry about expansion when the concrete is buried... anyway - a few cracks will be the least of their problems...I think completion might be end of August... September opening..especially if they keep working Sunday nights !!

Deedsie

gryff wrote: »

Ya.. about 300m ...the length of the working 'section' is about 500m..so there is about 100m either end of this concrete slab.. not sure about expansion joints as there is so much rebar... do you need to worry about expansion when the concrete is buried... anyway - a few cracks will be the least of their problems...I think completion might be end of August... September opening..especially if they keep working Sunday nights !!

That would be class, it's great to hear of them working sundays. They must be anxious to get it open asap.

lottpaul

gryff wrote: »

Ya.. about 300m ...the length of the working 'section' is about 500m..so there is about 100m either end of this concrete slab.. not sure about expansion joints as there is so much rebar... do you need to worry about expansion when the concrete is buried... anyway - a few cracks will be the least of their problems...I think completion might be end of August... September opening..especially if they keep working Sunday nights !!

That would be fantastic. I love Birdhill etc but I'm sure the good people there would be glad to see the back of us.

Hope they won't be too long finishing the tie in at the northern end of the Nenagh bypass.

serfboard

While it's great to see them cracking (;)) on with this, is it just me or do other people get a sinking (:D) feeling that give it six months worth of traffic and this will indeed start cracking and sinking into the bog again.

i.e. how confident are people that what they are doing will actually work and be sustainable?

gryff

serfboard wrote: »

While it's great to see them cracking (;)) on with this, is it just me or do other people get a sinking (:D) feeling that give it six months worth of traffic and this will indeed start cracking and sinking into the bog again.

i.e. how confident are people that what they are doing will actually work and be sustainable?

Have to agee..if the road couldnt sustain its own weight without cracking then it doesnt fill you with confidence for the future - Presume there's 12 months parts only warranty at the very least... Hopefully any retention for whatever length of time is big enough to keep the contractor interested once gone from the site...

veryangryman

Incidentally, who first coined this "bog of doom" phrase? Starting to hear it in the media now too!

Its only a bog that when sorted will shave ~10 minutes off a journey. The alternative is hardly resulting in "doom"

Funny nickname all the same

slinky2000

veryangryman wrote: »

Incidentally, who first coined this "bog of doom" phrase? Starting to hear it in the media now too!

Its only a bog that when sorted will shave ~10 minutes off a journey. The alternative is hardly resulting in "doom"

Funny nickname all the same

At least 10min! That'll bring my time to Dublin to under 2 hrs now!

I'll be able to make it to my home in the north from Limerick in 3.5 hrs!

Chris_5339762

I thought Spongey christened this one the Mire of Gloom and the other bog the Bog of Doom.

tinkerbell

I've heard a month for the Birdhill to Borris-in-Ossory to open and three months for the bog of doom part to open.

Sponge Bob

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I thought Spongey christened this one the Mire of Gloom and the other bog the Bog of Doom.

That is correct. The Bog of Doom is section is not only finished it is also in one piece.

Bog of Doom = Drominboy Bog.
Mire of Gloom = Annaholty Bog

Stop mixing yeer bogs up there lads and I am really disappointed at whoever mod erroneously renamed this thread