what if Extra-Terrestrial life is found?

MrDaithi

So how do you think the main religions will react if irrefutable proof of extra-terrestrial life is found?

two scenarios:
1. primitive life form on Mars or some moon of Jupiter or Saturn, being fossil or still alive.

2. intelligent life form via outer space signals or spaceship landing on the white house loan.

I'd say about #1 I'm sure they will say this isn't incompatible with holy texts ... bla bla bla ... after all Man was only created on earth.

About #2 I still think they will try to twist it to their advantage.

marco_polo

What sort of life would be very important, if it were chemically not identical to the kind of life here on Earth that would pose some problems I would imagine.

I am sure it would not be so big a problem that a reinterpretation of scripture couldn't solve it quite nicely though.

DanCorb

"God put them there to test our faith".

Dave!

Doubt it would bother most of them... They're probably preparing for it as we speak!

"Ahh sure we knew all along! Just look here, the Book of Aliens, chapter 6, verse 4: 'oh yeah, and humans aren't the only life form btw' "

Dades

Dave! wrote: »

Doubt it would bother most of them... They're probably preparing for it as we speak!

The Pope certainly has it covered!

Extra-terrestrial life is possible, Vatican astronomer says...


I think if ET life was found, it would be surprising how quickly mankind would get over it, and get on about it's usual business of oppression and conflict.

Scruff

Agree with Dades
Irrefutable proof or not the statistical chance of there being other life out there is enough for me, especially when you see that there are literally millions of other galaxies out there
And thats from only a small portion of the sky!

faceman

As a Christian i would be more worried about my faith if there wasnt life out there other than us!

Goduznt Xzst

As was said, Alien life would pose no treat to religions on this planet, they will just re-understand the scriptures to make allowances for it.

There is really nothing conceivable that could happen that would tell people of any religion that they are wrong. Religion likes to always sit in a comfortable state of grey, being able to swing which ever way it pleases to accommodate changing cultures and norms.

One of the questions I like to ask religious people is "What would have to happen for you to accept your religion is wrong"... they always look at me blankly and say nothing, as the indoctrination of their minds does not allow for the chances that they could ever be wrong.

rockbeer

MrDaithi wrote:

So how do you think the main religions will react if irrefutable proof of extra-terrestrial life is found?

Try to convert the little green men of course

I thought they already had found fragments of life on Mars, I saw it on a different forum.... maybe it was the conspiracy one.

From the BBC - this is what I was thinking of - it's not conclusive
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/life/looking/mars.shtml

The Martian meteorite


Are these fossilised bacteria - or just mineral deposits?
In 1996, NASA scientists announced that they may have proof of life on Mars. They had found what looked like fossilised bacteria in a meteorite that had once been part of the Red Planet.

The scientists knew the meteorite was from Mars because it contained traces of gas similar to that found in the Martian atmosphere. By studying it, there were able to tell that it had once had liquid water flowing through it. They also detected organic chemicals similar to those found when bacteria decay.

But many experts are still not convinced that the objects in the meteorite are fossils. They are a lot smaller than bacteria on Earth. They are also a similar shape to many naturally occurring mineral deposits. The argument rages on.

F.A.

I think it depends on how advanced these aliens are and how they'd treat us. If life far advanced to ours were to be found, I think that would seriously shake up some people's belief system. What with man being the hight of evolution creation. As for treating us: Milan Kundera toys with the idea in The Unbearable Lighntess of Being. If aliens landed here, they would obviously be far more advanced technically/knowledge-wise than we are, and they might well consider us as rather worthless beings, bit too stupid to be taken seriously. In fact, we might be to them what chimpanzees are to us.

Let's just say that when trying to establish our intelligence, I for one would hope they don't opt for a religious person as their guinea pig...

DapperGent

Many many years from now a vehicle carrying humans will be about to engage in faster than light travel, the captain will call the crew together and lead them in prayer to beseech the almighty to make their journey a safe one. There will be a scientist in the back, double checking the engines, hating them.

CerebralCortex

F.A. wrote: »

I think it depends on how advanced these aliens are and how they'd treat us. If life far advanced to ours were to be found, I think that would seriously shake up some people's belief system. What with man being the hight of evolution creation. As for treating us: Milan Kundera toys with the idea in The Unbearable Lighntess of Being. If aliens landed here, they would obviously be far more advanced technically/knowledge-wise than we are, and they might well consider us as rather worthless beings, bit too stupid to be taken seriously. In fact, we might be to them what chimpanzees are to us.

Let's just say that when trying to establish our intelligence, I for one would hope they don't opt for a religious person as their guinea pig...

Ooh from past experience you are asking for trouble with that statement good luck.

toiletduck

Dades wrote: »

I think if ET life was found, it would be surprising how quickly mankind would get over it, and get on about it's usual business of oppression and conflict.

Couldn't agree more. I'm always amused by stories or films which shows humanity uniting in peace and harmony when first contact is made.

faceman

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

One of the questions I like to ask religious people is "What would have to happen for you to accept your religion is wrong"... they always look at me blankly and say nothing, as the indoctrination of their minds does not allow for the chances that they could ever be wrong.

I have more atheist/agnostic friends than religious but of those that consider themselves religious they would answer your question without that blank look!

Anyway, i think you are asking your question wrong. For a start, its condescending in its wording. It implies the individual is wrong in the first place. But you also need to understand the individual's spiritual beliefs rather than making an assumption on your interpretation of the Bible, Koran etc.

The ultimate and only acceptable answer to your question from an Atheist's point of view, is that when we die we will know what is right and what's wrong. And by that logic, if there is no God (and just a purple light and a hum as someone arty once said! ), there wont be anyone around to claim victory.

I re-found my faith after an experience that I had, that frankly i cant and wont explain. I didnt have to experience stigmata or witness a possessed 12 year old girl vomit pea soup for me to find my peace with my God. Everyone is different. But just like football supporters, there are whackos in religion that do it no favours either.

CerebralCortex

faceman wrote: »

I re-found my faith after an experience that I had, that frankly i cant and wont explain.

You don't have to explain the experience, but which faith? Or faith in what?

F.A.

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Ooh from past experience you are asking for trouble with that statement good luck.

Why would that be offensive? Think about it logically. If aliens far superiour to us come to earth and want to establish how intelligent we are, and they go for a religious man who tells them that he is the height of all beings because that's what his God says - he says that into the face of a being who is obviously more advanced - how exactly do you think our alien friends would take to that?

CerebralCortex

F.A. wrote: »

Why would that be offensive? Think about it logically. If aliens far superiour to us come to earth and want to establish how intelligent we are, and they go for a religious man who tells them that he is the height of all beings because that's what his God says - he says that into the face of a being who is obviously more advanced - how exactly do you think our alien friends would take to that?

I agree but the religious might not see it that way.

pgroarke

The really interesting question is if the alien life was intelligent and it they had something to say about religion(s) on our planet.

What would be the reaction of the religions if for example, the aliens claimed to have visited us and to have manufactured miracles with their advanced technology ?

While far fetched, at least this scenario is theoretically possible (unlike the possibility of miraculous magic which many religions appear to utilize)

ChocolateSauce

I think it would have a detrimental effect on religion, especially if the aliens were secular. If a vastly more advanced race totally dismissed our religions (which they probably would), it would make many people realise how provincial and backward such concepts are. Yes, there would be a large portion unaffected (mainly fundies), but the moderate majority would take a big hit, I think.

Dades

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I agree but the religious might not see it that way.

Or the mods here.

Tread lightly, F.A. This forum welcomes everyone.

steve-hosting36

It would certainly be interesting

Any species sufficiently advanced to 'visit' us would also likely have advanced beyond the 'need' for religion or superstition.

Then again, we all saw what happened in Star Gate with the Ori?!

Goduznt Xzst

faceman wrote: »

I have more atheist/agnostic friends than religious but of those that consider themselves religious they would answer your question without that blank look!

Anyway, i think you are asking your question wrong. For a start, its condescending in its wording. It implies the individual is wrong in the first place. But you also need to understand the individual's spiritual beliefs rather than making an assumption on your interpretation of the Bible, Koran etc.

I re-found my faith after an experience that I had, that frankly i cant and wont explain.

I really don't know how I could word it differently. By saying "what would have to happen" I am refering to an event that has not yet happened therefore the implication that their religion would be false would rest on the occuring of this event. As the event has not happened, the questions assumes that their belief is not yet false.

Your last sentence is pretty much what causes the blankness in their faces. People don't like to imagine their beliefs could ever be wrong because they are tied to emotional events or fears. To ask someone to reason logically on what their beliefs hinge on opens up the chance that they could be proved wrong one day.

I also frankly don't accept any posthumous explanations, because that in itself assumes a posthumous existence.

faceman

CerebralCortex wrote: »

You don't have to explain the experience, but which faith? Or faith in what?

Christianity, Catholicism being closest but one of the Christian groups have hit the nail on the head yet! (IMO!)

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Your last sentence is pretty much what causes the blankness in their faces. People don't like to imagine their beliefs could ever be wrong because they are tied to emotional events or fears. To ask someone to reason logically on what their beliefs hinge on opens up the chance that they could be proved wrong one day.

I also frankly don't accept any posthumous explanations, because that in itself assumes a posthumous existence.

Im not at liberty to divulge my experience to the masses here as it doesnt matter anyway. however my experience has bog all to do with a traumatic/emotional or fear based experience.

I understand your point. However with most spiritual beliefs, you are accepting powers beyond scientific proof or understanding. thats the basis of faith. You believed in Santa Clause as a child for many years quite happily until you were shown otherwise. While its an over simplisitic analogy, it has some relevence. When you find out truly if your beliefs have any basis of truth, it will either be too late or a time to rejoice, no matter what your faith. Either way, those spiritual beliefs offer many people hope, light and comfort throughout life. Setting out to disprove it is paradoxial given if atheists are correct, it wont make any difference anyway.

There are plenty of whackos who are religious. There are plenty of whackos with influence who are religious. But the vast majority of people are not. To many of us, its not about proving who is right or wrong. Logic and religion never goes hand in hand if you want someone to right a formula to the existance of your God.

200 hundred years ago we couldnt ask a scientist to write a formula that explains dark matter, as no one knew it existing. There will never be any proof that there is no God based afterlife or beginning, if there is no God. There is a greater likelihood of proof of God or an afterlife being discovered than proof of no God at all.

Getting back to the topic aliens, when scientists are looking for life on other planets, they look at solar systems and planets with similar conditions to our own. The assumption is that for life to exist in the universe, similar conditions to earth must prevail. Its a fair enough theory given the circumstances. But what would it mean to the scientific world if life was found on Pluto for example?

toiletduck

faceman wrote: »

Getting back to the topic aliens, when scientists are looking for life on other planets, they look at solar systems and planets with similar conditions to our own. The assumption is that for life to exist in the universe, similar conditions to earth must prevail. Its a fair enough theory given the circumstances. But what would it mean to the scientific world if life was found on Pluto for example?

Well more interesting is the idea that bacteria can survive in space. Watched a documentary on it earlier this year, can't remember the name for the life of me. Started off by investigating reports of "Red rain" falling in India which some claimed was bacteria from outer space and then went into the debate on Panspermia. Some interesting stuff was discussed, notably the controversy surrounding the apparent survival of bacteria on the moon.

Zillah

faceman wrote: »

Im not at liberty to divulge my experience to the masses here as it doesnt matter anyway.

Of course you're at liberty! You clearly don't want to, and I'd imagine the reason is that you secretly know it's very silly and that we'd tear it apart.

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I agree but the religious might not see it that way.

pgroarke wrote: »

The really interesting question is if the alien life was intelligent and it they had something to say about religion(s) on our planet.

What would be the reaction of the religions if for example, the aliens claimed to have visited us and to have manufactured miracles with their advanced technology ?

While far fetched, at least this scenario is theoretically possible (unlike the possibility of miraculous magic which many religions appear to utilize)

I've pondered this question before. I'd imagine that the (xeno)sociology/economics of a race drastically more advanced than ours would benefit from a certain perspective our species still lacks. I'd guess they'd have a check list of items that they'd need checked off before considering a species sufficiently advanced enough to engage with as equals. Stuff like:

1 - Has the species transcended factional conflict between artificial identities such as states and minor genetic variances?
2 - Has the species developed a uniform degree of economic, technological and industrial development across their world?
3 - Has the species transcended defunct supernatural world views?

And many more questions of that variety. As you can guess, we're not doing too well.

"Hey Blorg, will we make contact with the humans today?"
"What?! No way, most of them are still praying to supernatural entities ahahaha"
"Really? Ahahaha, stupid humans."
"I also heard they have yet to establish a global government operated by unilaterally agreed principles.
"No! You're kidding me?"
"Nope. I even heard they've used nuclear weapons against each other."

And so on.

Zillah

toiletduck wrote: »

Some interesting stuff was discussed, notably the controversy surrounding the apparent survival of bacteria on the moon.

Seems pretty clear to me:

"One of the implements being used to scrape samples off the Surveyor parts was laid down on a non-sterile laboratory bench, and then was used to collect surface samples for culturing. To quote Jaffe, 'It is, therefore, quite possible that the microorganisms were transferred to the camera after its return to Earth, and that they had never been to the Moon."

I remember reading all about the red rain years ago. Didn't they conclude that the most likely explanation was desert sand transported to the vicinity and mixed with atmospheric water?

CerebralCortex

faceman wrote: »

Christianity, Catholicism being closest but one of the Christian groups have hit the nail on the head yet! (IMO!)

Are you serious? Christianity? Do you mean with a sqeaky hammer?

faceman wrote: »

Im not at liberty to divulge my experience to the masses here as it doesnt matter anyway.

Well no actually kinda does matter.

faceman wrote: »

I understand your point. However with most spiritual beliefs, you are accepting powers beyond scientific proof or understanding. thats the basis of faith.

Well then they could be just ellaborate dellusions and most certainly not true because they are complete unfounded.

faceman wrote: »

There are plenty of whackos who are religious. There are plenty of whackos with influence who are religious. But the vast majority of people are not. To many of us, its not about proving who is right or wrong. Logic and religion never goes hand in hand if you want someone to right a formula to the existance of your God.

200 hundred years ago we couldnt ask a scientist to write a formula that explains dark matter, as no one knew it existing. There will never be any proof that there is no God based afterlife or beginning, if there is no God. There is a greater likelihood of proof of God or an afterlife being discovered than proof of no God at all.

Getting back to the topic aliens, when scientists are looking for life on other planets, they look at solar systems and planets with similar conditions to our own. The assumption is that for life to exist in the universe, similar conditions to earth must prevail. Its a fair enough theory given the circumstances. But what would it mean to the scientific world if life was found on Pluto for example?

Meh I can't be bothered......

Dades

faceman wrote: »

Im not at liberty to divulge my experience to the masses here as it doesnt matter anyway. however my experience has bog all to do with a traumatic/emotional or fear based experience.

I for one think you're dead right not to be spilling your guts in this thread.

Zillah

Dades wrote: »

I for one think you're dead right not to be spilling your guts in this thread.

You lack the killer edge Dades. You're soft. It's only a matter of time before a meaner, tougher atheist takes over the forum. To the dueling pit!

GothPunk

If many people did tire of religion post first contact, what's the likelyhood of the aliens taking the place of gods or religion? Seems like they could become very good authority figure replacements, in the way good aul Yahweh does for people when they fail to grow up right.

faceman wrote: »

There is a greater likelihood of proof of God or an afterlife being discovered than proof of no God at all.

I would have thought that was a bit of a no brainer. How exactly do you find proof of nothing? You either have evidence that something exists, or you don't entertain the existence of anything until such a time as evidence arises.

Zillah

GothPunk wrote: »

If many people did tire of religion post first contact, what's the likelyhood of the aliens taking the place of gods or religion? Seems like they could become very good authority figure replacements, in the way good aul Yahweh does for people when they fail to grow up right.

Mostly dependent upon the personality of said aliens. If they were, for some bizarre reason, possessed of the intention to masquerade as Gods, it's most likely they'd be interpreted according to existing religions rather than founding new ones.

GothPunk

Zillah wrote: »

Mostly dependent upon the personality of said aliens. If they were, for some bizarre reason, possessed of the intention to masquerade as Gods, it's most likely they'd be interpreted according to existing religions rather than founding new ones.

I have this image in my mind of some teenage aliens getting pissed and playing tricks with us for some cheap thrills.

Goduznt Xzst

Zillah wrote: »

1 - Has the species transcended factional conflict between artificial identities such as states and minor genetic variances?
2 - Has the species developed a uniform degree of economic, technological and industrial development across their world?
3 - Has the species transcended defunct supernatural world views?

And many more questions of that variety. As you can guess, we're not doing too well.

"Hey Blorg, will we make contact with the humans today?"
"What?! No way, most of them are still praying to supernatural entities ahahaha"
"Really? Ahahaha, stupid humans."
"I also heard they have yet to establish a global government operated by unilaterally agreed principles.
"No! You're kidding me?"
"Nope. I even heard they've used nuclear weapons against each other."

And so on.

I'd agree with this. If aliens do exist and know of earth I doubt they'd want to have anything to do with us. It's like if we found a planet with a species at around the evolutionary stage of Homo Erectus, there'd be no point trying to reason with such a primitive being.

Actually scratch that, being Human, we'd probably enslave the life on that planet, and start exporting all its resources back to Earth until it was bled dry.

I imagine Aliens in Orbit looking down on earth and saying:

- "It seems they are all fighting and killing over whos religion is more loving?"
- "How peculiar!"

Dades

Zillah wrote: »

You lack the killer edge Dades. You're soft. It's only a matter of time before a meaner, tougher atheist takes over the forum. To the dueling pit!

I'll see you in the dueling pit... but I must warn you - you will be sporting a red uniform!

faceman

Zillah wrote: »

Of course you're at liberty! You clearly don't want to, and I'd imagine the reason is that you secretly know it's very silly and that we'd tear it apart.

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Are you serious? Christianity? Do you mean with a sqeaky hammer?

Well no actually kinda does matter.

But sure ye are Atheists, what am i going to do with my story - convert you!

wrote:

Well then they could be just ellaborate dellusions and most certainly not true because they are complete unfounded.



Meh I can't be bothered......

Yes you can, go for it!

Joking aside, someone's religion or personal beliefs are their own business. As long as they arent oppressing someone or pushing an agenda, they aint doing no harm. As much as I enjoy debate with all you hell bound evil doers atheists, I always feel that there are some people in this forum and athesit world (altho not in this thread) that try oppress religious people with their beliefs.

CerebralCortex

faceman wrote: »

But sure ye are Atheists, what am i going to do with my story - convert you!

It would be interesting to see if you could. Something is going on here that you're not admitting. Like your reason for whatever you believe is convincing to you but would just fall flat on its face here.

faceman wrote: »

Yes you can, go for it!

No arguing with someone who doesn't understand that the spiritual can be a manifestation of a completely physical universe is cyclically futile and tedious. Your beliefs are completely protected because you place them outside the realm of scrutiny just so can keep them. So theres no point really.

faceman wrote: »

Joking aside, someone's religion or personal beliefs are their own business.

Agreed says nothing about their truth nor qualifies them for protection against scrutiny.

faceman wrote: »

As long as they arent oppressing someone or pushing an agenda, they aint doing no harm.

By living life in mixed community by your certain dogma your always pushing your agenda.

faceman wrote: »

As much as I enjoy debate with all you hell bound evil doers atheists, I always feel that there are some people in this forum and athesit world (altho not in this thread) that try oppress religious people with their beliefs.

Thats rubbish, and it speaks volumes about your insecurity in your beliefs if you feel someone who says your beliefs are unfounded and worthy of scrutiny as oppression. I've never heard of an atheist jihad have you?

Doctor DooM

faceman wrote: »

But what would it mean to the scientific world if life was found on Pluto for example?

Here we are again

Science would go "Oh look, we were wrong, isn't that interesting!" and move on.

Please note no one died over this disagreement.

Zillah

faceman wrote: »

But sure ye are Atheists, what am i going to do with my story - convert you!

Feed us.

Goduznt Xzst

Dades wrote: »

I'll see you in the dueling pit... but I must warn you - you will be sporting a red uniform!

I'll bet 20 Quatloos on Dades *gloyvin flyvin*

faceman wrote: »

Im not at liberty to divulge my experience to the masses here as it doesnt matter anyway. however my experience has bog all to do with a traumatic/emotional or fear based experience.

I never said it had anything to do with Trauma, I said it was emotive. You might of experienced something that went coincidentally in your favour and thought that there was a power behind it, or witnessed the birth of a child and thought there must of been a power to give it life... etc.

I respect that you don't wish to divulge your experience with us, but you should question yourself why such an evident proof of the existence of a God is not worth sharing. If it is purely personal and easily refuted then you need to question your true motives for accepting it as a proof.

Ask yourself why you would have a problem being told that your experience is not good enough.

faceman wrote: »

You believed in Santa Clause as a child for many years quite happily until you were shown otherwise. While its an over simplisitic analogy, it has some relevence. When you find out truly if your beliefs have any basis of truth, it will either be too late or a time to rejoice, no matter what your faith. Either way, those spiritual beliefs offer many people hope, light and comfort throughout life. Setting out to disprove it is paradoxial given if atheists are correct, it wont make any difference anyway.

Yes and I also believed that some cars driving around might be Transformers, but you grow up and accept the sad, sad reality

You've shot yourself in the foot with that analogy because it accepts that it is possible to convince an individual through indoctrination to believe lies. As whole souled as you believed Santa existed you now believe that a God exists. If you could believe lies before how can you be sure you aren't believing them now also?

Also, I resent your last comment there. I am not trying to "disprove" anything, that is impossible. What I am trying to do is show you that there is enough reasonable doubt to accept that in all likelyhood God does not exist. Further to this, IMO it will make a huge difference. Ridding the world of mind numbing and bigotry supporting religion will go one step closer to uniting the world. Arguing over which lies we should believe has a historical record of getting us nowhere.

Plus how do we ever hope to prepare ourselves for our Alien overlords if we don't prove ourselves worthy first

Also, in regards to your supposed benefits of belief, I give you this quote:

"Saying a religious man is happier than an atheist is no more to the point than saying a drunk man is happier than a sober man"

faceman

CerebralCortex wrote: »

It would be interesting to see if you could. Something is going on here that you're not admitting. Like your reason for whatever you believe is convincing to you but would just fall flat on its face here.

There would be nothing interesting about it. Unless science convinces you there is a God you will remain atheist no?

My experience can be explained Im sure no different that any post in the paranormal forum, the UFO forum and the like. what do you mean by falling falt on your face? Just because you may have a theory to explain something, which is all it will ever be, does not automatically denouce all other theories or possibilities.

wrote:

No arguing with someone who doesn't understand that the spiritual can be a manifestation of a completely physical universe is cyclically futile and tedious. Your beliefs are completely protected because you place them outside the realm of scrutiny just so can keep them. So theres no point really.

Again your assumption is based on your assumption of what my beliefs are based on your interpretation of christianity and the bible, which I presume you havent read in full? Or the Koran?

wrote:

By living life in mixed community by your certain dogma your always pushing your agenda.

What is my agenda so and who am I pushing it on?

wrote:

Thats rubbish, and it speaks volumes about your insecurity in your beliefs if you feel someone who says your beliefs are unfounded and worthy of scrutiny as oppression. I've never heard of an atheist jihad have you?

I fail to see what relevence your analogy is? Atheism appears to use propoganda no different than any other group in society. You dont believe in a god or an afterlife. Thats fine, yet you seem sentenced to push your agenda on any non atheist who posts here [in this thread, I dont follow this forum that often]. you are alluding to the non atheist poster to justify their beliefs. You might explain how my post demonstrates an insecurity?

faceman

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

I never said it had anything to do with Trauma, I said it was emotive. You might of experienced something that went coincidentally in your favour and thought that there was a power behind it, or witnessed the birth of a child and thought there must of been a power to give it life... etc.

I respect that you don't wish to divulge your experience with us, but you should question yourself why such an evident proof of the existence of a God is not worth sharing. If it is purely personal and easily refuted then you need to question your true motives for accepting it as a proof.

Ask yourself why you would have a problem being told that your experience is not good enough.

What is my experience being shared hear going to achieve? I have told my experience to anyone who has asked me in real life? Like i said it was a personal experience. Do you post pictures of yourself in the nude in the net? I expect not.

wrote:

Yes and I also believed that some cars driving around might be Transformers, but you grow up and accept the sad, sad reality

You've shot yourself in the foot with that analogy because it accepts that it is possible to convince an individual through indoctrination to believe lies. As whole souled as you believed Santa existed you now believe that a God exists. If you could believe lies before how can you be sure you aren't believing them now also?

If we took that attitude in life we wouldnt trust or believe in anything or anyone.

wrote:

Also, I resent your last comment there. I am not trying to "disprove" anything, that is impossible. What I am trying to do is show you that there is enough reasonable doubt to accept that in all likelyhood God does not exist. Further to this, IMO it will make a huge difference. Ridding the world of mind numbing and bigotry supporting religion will go one step closer to uniting the world. Arguing over which lies we should believe has a historical record of getting us nowhere.

Is that not the same thing?
So religion is the cause of all evil in the world?

Doctor DooM

faceman wrote: »

Is that not the same thing?
So religion is the cause of all evil in the world?

thats not what he is saying, people have the capacity for great atrocity and religion is one excuse which is used to perform such atrocities. I am sure even the most ardent fundy would agree (even if only about religions that aren't their own).

Zillah

faceman wrote: »

What is my experience being shared hear going to achieve?

We're curious. Why not satisfy that curiosity?

So religion is the cause of all evil in the world?

No but it's certainly a big one.

Dades

I much preferred this thread when it involved space-aliens, and not faceman's personal beliefs.

Accordingly please include reference to ET's in your responses. It could even have some relevance to whatever you are typing.

CerebralCortex

faceman wrote: »

There would be nothing interesting about it. Unless science convinces you there is a God you will remain atheist no?

Of course but apparently according to you god/beliefs are outside the realm of science. If you have actually been touched by god then it has to be tangible to make you have faith(which is unnecessary because you have proof supposedly) specifically in christianity or else your doing nothing more than pretending cause it feels good which of course you're entitled to do.

faceman wrote: »

My experience can be explained Im sure no different that any post in the paranormal forum, the UFO forum and the like. what do you mean by falling falt on your face? Just because you may have a theory to explain something, which is all it will ever be, does not automatically denouce all other theories or possibilities.

Falling flat on its face the faith giving "experience" that is when put up to scrutiny. So you gotta ask yourself do you actually hold a belief about the truth of the universe because it feels good or because its conclusive which means it wouldn't be the same as any of the posts in the paranormal forum?

faceman wrote: »

Again your assumption is based on your assumption of what my beliefs are based on your interpretation of christianity and the bible, which I presume you havent read in full? Or the Koran?

No you've quite clearly stated that logic, reason and religion can't go hand in hand and thats the context in which I've responded.

faceman wrote: »

What is my agenda so and who am I pushing it on?

That religion, belief can't and shouldn't be scrutinised which is completely wrong regardless of the findings and on those of us he would like to see a force as powerful as religion questioned.

faceman wrote: »

I fail to see what relevence your analogy is? Atheism appears to use propoganda no different than any other group in society.

Really? I find that hard to believe, considering atheism isn't an ideology. Care to explain how you would herd cats?

faceman wrote: »

You dont believe in a god or an afterlife.

Never said I don't believe there's an afterlife. Ever hear of the immortal gene?

faceman wrote: »

Thats fine, yet you seem sentenced to push your agenda on any non atheist who posts here [in this thread, I dont follow this forum that often]. you are alluding to the non atheist poster to justify their beliefs. You might explain how my post demonstrates an insecurity?

Simple you don't want to share the experience and you don't have to but why mention at all and then use as validation for your beliefs?

rockbeer

faceman wrote: »

If we took that attitude in life we wouldnt trust or believe in anything or anyone.

Absolutely not. If we take that attitude in life, we end up trusting and believing in things and people for which there are good reasons and evidence to justify our decision to trust and believe. We can approach things sceptically but with an open mind - as I believe an advance alien might (happy Dades? )

What's the alternative? If you go round trusting everything you hear or read indiscriminately, good luck - you'll be a long time looking for the truth.

The Santa Claus analogy is perfect. What lesson do you draw from having believed in him and discovered it was a lie?

Zillah

I saw an alien once. It was hideous. Did you ever see Alien, with Sigourney Weaver? That's what the alien looked like. Not a big insect, no. It looked like Sigourney Weaver.

toiletduck

Zillah wrote: »

Seems pretty clear to me:

"One of the implements being used to scrape samples off the Surveyor parts was laid down on a non-sterile laboratory bench, and then was used to collect surface samples for culturing. To quote Jaffe, 'It is, therefore, quite possible that the microorganisms were transferred to the camera after its return to Earth, and that they had never been to the Moon."

I remember reading all about the red rain years ago. Didn't they conclude that the most likely explanation was desert sand transported to the vicinity and mixed with atmospheric water?

I just remembered, it was a horizon show. There was no clear cut explanation, although the guy who was proposing the bacteria explanation has lost a lot of credibility due to recent findings.

As for the moon lander, maybe you're right. What I think is the bigger point is that scientists have to take the contamination scenario seriously, hence the sterilisation of various probes so there may just be something to the theory that they can survive in the vacuum of space.

I reckon that if extra terrestrial bacterial life is ever discovered, this will not impact negatively on religions. I imagine half will claim it's compatible with their holy books and the other half will claim that contamination occurred.

faceman

Dear Lord the void, i give up! I concede, Im a converted atheist. damn you for hitting me with your science! I rejoice in the black and while reality of life.

I saw a UFO once above a church in tallaght. I dont think the aliens were visiting the church but it was about as religious as them greys got i guess.

Zillah

faceman wrote: »

Dear Lord the void, i give up! I concede, Im a converted atheist. damn you for hitting me with your science! I rejoice in the black and while reality of life.

What a bizarre and childish thing to say.