Who is teaching learners to indicate right to go straight on a roundabout.

Berty

Disclaimer: Im not bringing up a long debate on roundabout. If YOU start it everybody should blame YOU

I have noticed more and more learner driver being accompanied by instructors and testers and on their own indicating incorrectly on roundabouts.

They indicate for the 1st exit and the 3rd/4th exit which is all fine.

Who is training them to indicate right(for the 2nd exit) and then indicate left after the 1st exit and take the 2nd exit?

It is so damned annoying when you are in the inner orbital lane. You dont know whether they are going to cut across you.

Jaysoose

I have this problem every day as i need to cross a roundabout to get into mmy apartment block, basically if i dont indicate right when i want to take the second exit and go straight across there is nearly always somebody who will assume im going to turn off at the first exit and cut across the roundabout. Everyone is as bad as each other in this respect and its the only safe option to prevent people making moronic assumptions.

I am from the north and was always told that if im going straight through a roundabout then i dont indicate but the rules of the road seem to be implemented differently down here, i had a heated debate with my work colleagues about this situation were they believe that if you dont indicate then its fair game for people waiting to come on to the roundabout.

handbraker

due to the a couple of near misses i too now indicate right for the 2nd exit and then indicate left after the 1st exit. I know its not correct but feel its now safer to follow what seem to be becoming the convention!

peasant

Whenever I approach a roundabout I just stick on the hazard lights. That way everybody is satisfied

Boskowski

quirke_folder wrote: »

Who is training them to indicate right(for the 2nd exit) and then indicate left after the 1st exit and take the 2nd exit?

I guess the instructors are ... since it's technically correct. You indicate right as long as your desired exit isn't the next exit, after that you indicate left. What's so confusing about that?

Berty

realcam wrote: »

I guess the instructors are ... since it's technically correct. You indicate right as long as your desired exit isn't the next exit, after that you indicate left. What's so confusing about that?

You are Funny

andrewh5

realcam wrote: »

I guess the instructors are ... since it's technically correct. You indicate right as long as your desired exit isn't the next exit, after that you indicate left. What's so confusing about that?

It isn't correct at all and is actually downright dangerous in some cases.

galwaytt

realcam wrote: »

I guess the instructors are ... since it's technically correct. You indicate right as long as your desired exit isn't the next exit, after that you indicate left. What's so confusing about that?

...you mean apart from the fact that you're wrong ??

Specifically, the Rules of the Road tell you NOT to indicate if going straight ahead, and only to indicate left, as you clear a preceding exit. See instructions here: http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

Boskowski

andrewh5 wrote: »

It isn't correct at all and is actually downright dangerous in some cases.

Erm...what is the correct way then in your opinion?

EDIT:
Ok, I was wrong, looked it up on rotr.ie. The way I described it is the technically correct way where I'm from. You don't indicate at all 'til you have pass the first exit then you indicate left.

Berty

realcam wrote: »

Erm...what is the correct way then in your opinion?

RTFM OF D ROTR :D:D:D:D:D :P

smashey

And for all those people taking the second exit, I'd just like to draw attention to the name of what it is you're using.

It's a ROUNDabout, not a STRAIGHT-THROUGHabout. :mad:

mickdw

I wouldnt be indicating right driving around the outside of a roundabout, that is madness. It would cause a pile up with the car on the inside braking incase you are going to continue on around.
Surely if you are indicating left entering the roundabout, you are going first exit and if not indicating, people should know not to pull out in front of you.

In Castlebar they have marked alot of the roundabout entrances with arrows allowing only first exit from left lane and it works well.

SV

realcam wrote: »

Erm...what is the correct way then in your opinion?

Please tell me you don't drive...



first exit, indicate left.
second exit, no indication until past the first exit then indicate left.
all exits after the second exit, indicate right until at your exit then indicate left.


and please don't get me started on the right lanes!

Jaysoose

realcam wrote: »

Erm...what is the correct way then in your opinion?

When approaching a roundabout with 3 possible exits the left hand lane allows the driver to turn left at the first exit or go straight through the second exit (when do you indicate to go straight?) the right hand lane is for any exit after the second only.

Berty

Just so people know. I also e-mailed a number of the main driver testing agencies asking them their honest opinion and linked this thread in the email for their "amusement".

I will let you know their replies when they come in. I just asked them to clarify the correct approach and indication on a standard 4 pronged roundabout.

tv3

quirke_folder wrote: »

Disclaimer: Im not bringing up a long debate on roundabout. If YOU start it everybody should blame YOU

I have noticed more and more learner driver being accompanied by instructors and testers and on their own indicating incorrectly on roundabouts.

They indicate for the 1st exit and the 3rd/4th exit which is all fine.

Who is training them to indicate right(for the 2nd exit) and then indicate left after the 1st exit and take the 2nd exit?

It is so damned annoying when you are in the inner orbital lane. You dont know whether they are going to cut across you.

Would you not become a instructor..?:rolleyes:
Maybe you should read the rules of the road because you are completly wrong and havent a clue !:DHave a good think about it

CJackson

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

Going straight ahead:

* Approach in the left-hand lane but do not signal yet.
* Signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.
* You may follow the course shown in the illustration by the broken red line in situations where:
o the left-hand lane is only for turning left or is blocked or closed, or
o when directed by a Garda.

Going straight ahead
Stay in the left-hand lane, but do not indicate "left" until you have passed the first exit. Where conditions dictate otherwise, you may follow the course shown by the broken red line.

Hal1

Have a look at the ROTR regarding indicating on roundabouts. Seriously :pac:.

craichoe

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

neacy69

Jaysoose wrote: »

When approaching a roundabout with 3 possible exits the left hand lane allows the driver to turn left at the first exit or go straight through the second exit (when do you indicate to go straight?) the right hand lane is for any exit after the second only.

The right hand lane can be used for the second exit when nessecary

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

First Exit -Indicate left and use left hand lane
Second Exit- Do not indicate until you have passed the first exit and then indicate left use the left hand lane or the right hand lane if "conditions dictate"

cooperguy

realcam wrote: »

Erm...what is the correct way then in your opinion?

EDIT:
Ok, I was wrong, looked it up on rotr.ie. The way I described it is the technically correct way where I'm from. You don't indicate at all 'til you have pass the first exit then you indicate left.

Haha there is no correct way in somebodies opinion. There is a correct way according to the rules of the road and that is it. And the correct way is to not indicate coming on to the roundabout and indicate left after the first exit.

SV

neacy69 wrote: »

The right hand lane can be used for the second when nessecary

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

First Exit -Indicate left and use left hand lane
Second Exit- Do not indicate until you have passed the first exit and then indicate left use the left hand lane or the right hand lane if "conditions dictate"

It is never neccesary, you can sometimes get away with it though.
That's all that shows.

Jaysoose

neacy69 wrote: »

The right hand lane can be used for the second exit when nessecary

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

First Exit -Indicate left and use left hand lane
Second Exit- Do not indicate until you have passed the first exit and then indicate left use the left hand lane or the right hand lane if "conditions dictate"

What conditions would they be? 4 in the morning when you are on the roundabout your own...anything else is an accident waiting to happen!! the argument is about indicating right when going straight through.

Berty

Jaysoose wrote: »

What conditions would they be? 4 in the morning when you are on the roundabout your own...anything else is an accident waiting to happen!! the argument is about indicating right when going straight through.

You can use the inner orbital lane when there are two lanes exiting the roundabout.

Vegeta

Ok I know I may get laughed at and abused but what if the second exit is past 180 degrees.

I was under the impression if the second exit was past 180 degrees you did go into the right hand lane (if present), indicate right and then just after passing the first exit, indicate left.

Where did I get that from as it doesn't appear on the roundabouts section in the link provided?

Berty

tv3 wrote: »

Would you not become a instructor..?:rolleyes:
Maybe you should read the rules of the road because you are completly wrong and havent a clue !:DHave a good think about it

*Sighs* Check one more time yourself

neacy69

Jaysoose wrote: »

What conditions would they be? 4 in the morning when you are on the roundabout your own...anything else is an accident waiting to happen!! the argument is about indicating right when going straight through.

I am aware of the topic on debate here....I was simply trying to correct your mistake thats all......cheer up lad! :rolleyes:

Jaysoose

neacy69 wrote: »

I am aware of the topic on debate here....I was simply trying to correct your mistake thats all......cheer up lad! :rolleyes:

What mistake is that? you used a line 'if conditions dictate' which is open enough to the interpretation you want to put across..it doesnt make it true though as there is no definitive list of conditions etc. Im perfectly happy and im glad that you are here to clear up any "mistakes":rolleyes: i alledgedly make.

seamus

Jaysoose wrote: »

What conditions would they be?

There are a couple of scenarios where it is possible and safe to use the right-hand lane to go straight ahead, they're noted in the link above.
There are plenty of roundabouts where arrows dictate what lane you should be in. The arrows always take precedence over the normal rules.

Ok I know I may get laughed at and abused but what if the second exit is past 180 degrees.

I was under the impression if the second exit was past 180 degrees you did go into the right hand lane (if present), indicate right and then just after passing the first exit, indicate left.

I would normally only indicate right to take the second exit if the second exit is at or close to the 3 o'clock position. Otherwise I don't indicate when entering the roundabout. "Going straight ahead" is ambiguous. I still consider (for example) an exit at 1 o'clock to be "straight ahead".

mickdw

tv3 wrote: »

Would you not become a instructor..?:rolleyes:
Maybe you should read the rules of the road because you are completly wrong and havent a clue !:DHave a good think about it

?? Thanks a bit unfair on the OP, He is right after all

SV

Vegeta wrote: »

Ok I know I may get laughed at and abused but what if the second exit is past 180 degrees.

I was under the impression if the second exit was past 180 degrees you did go into the right hand lane (if present), indicate right and then just after passing the first exit, indicate left.

Where did I get that from as it doesn't appear on the roundabouts section in the link provided?

No abuse!

Still don't have to indicate right, no indication until past your exit then it's a left indication.

the argument there was that most people indicate right as a lot of people will drive on in front if you if they don't see you indicating right..even though it's wrong.

tv3

quirke_folder wrote: »

*Sighs* Check one more time yourself

I think you need to do more research instead of making a straight forward question "to which i answered" go on and on !:rolleyes:

E92

As noted already, if the second exit on a roundabout is off to the right, then you ARE supposed to indicate right approaching the roundabout.

If the second ext is to the left or straight on, then you DO NOT indicate at all approaching the roundabout.

In either situation, you always indicate left AFTER you pass the first exit.

In fact if you taking the nth exit, then you indicate left at the (n-1)th exit, unless n=1 in which case you indicate left approaching the roundabout and while on the roundabout.

Unless road markings dicatate otherwise, you should always be in the left lane approaching a roundabout for the first an second exits, and the right lane for anything else.

neacy69

Jaysoose wrote: »

What mistake is that? you used a line 'if conditions dictate' which is open enough to the interpretation you want to put across..it doesnt make it true though as there is no definitive list of conditions etc. Im perfectly happy and im glad that you are here to clear up any "mistakes":rolleyes: i alledgedly make.

Always happy to help.....:)

I was correcting this mistake

Jaysoose wrote: »

the right hand lane is for any exit after the second only.

I thought I made that pretty obvious......hence the use of bold ...but I'll underline it for you here in case you miss it again....

Dolph Starbeam

ClioV6 wrote: »

Please tell me you don't drive...



first exit, indicate left.
second exit, no indication until past the first exit then indicate left.
all exits after the second exit, indicate right until at your exit then indicate left.


and please don't get me started on the right lanes!

+1. Simple as that, its not really a hard one to understand so how can people do it wrong.

Vegeta

seamus wrote: »

If you were to stick to the rules, then you would be incorrect. The rules don't account for the angle of the exit, only the number. But common sense does work better. I would normally only indicate right to take the second exit if the second exit is at or close to the 3 o'clock position. Otherwise I don't indicate when entering the roundabout.

ClioV6 wrote: »

No abuse!

Still don't have to indicate right, no indication until past your exit then it's a left indication.

the argument there was that most people indicate right as a lot of people will drive on in front if you if they don't see you indicating right..even though it's wrong.

Again, showing my bad driving skills here, but I am nearly sure I read that on some form of RoTR. How recently have they been updated?

I drove through my test 2 years ago like I described above (only for roundabouts where second exit was past 180 degrees or 12 o clock) and didn't get one mark for going through a roundabout incorrectly

So either I was thought incorrectly or I read it somewhere incorrectly.


EDIT: Ahhhhhh now I see it. It says "straight ahead" i.e. 180 degrees or 12 o clock, NOT second exit. It says for "any later exits" (which are after 180 degrees ) to use the method I described above. All is well again

ergonomics

The way I was taught was like this:

The roundabout is a clock face. You are always approaching at 6 o'clock.

If the exit you want to take is between 6 and 9 you approach in the left hand lane, indication left.

If the exit you want to take is between 9 and 12, you approach in the left hand lane, and only indicate left when you pass the exit immediately before the exit you want to take. (i.e., the roundabout at B&Q I think, on the Ballysimon Road in Limerick. Coming from the direction of town and going straight through you will pass two exits to your left, you indicate after passing the second one).

If the exit you want to take is after 12, regardless of whether it is the first, second or hundredth exit, you approach in the right hand lane and indicate right. You then indicate left and move into the left hand lane after passing the exit which is immediately before the exit you are taking.

I passed my test on my 2nd attempt, and on both times I got no marks for roundabout use.

peasant

Vegeta wrote: »

All is well again

Nope ...nothing will ever be "well" when it comes to roundabout driving.

Yes, there are rules that should basically make it clear how to indicate and which lane to use.

But (Other than people doing it wrong) there is hardly a roundabout in this country to which those rules can actually be applied without having to interpret them first.

- roundabouts where arrows on the road override the rules ...but how do you see the blooming arrows in heavy traffic?

- roundabouts where two lane entries disappear into one lane only exits

- roundabouts with no or inappropriate signage

- roundabouts with stupid greenery planted in everybodies line of sight

- roundabouts with traffic lights

- - "painted on" roundabouts that are impossible to negotiate without driving over at least one line, if not the whole thing altogether

the examples are endless ...

towel401

I am. all the learner drivers meet up in a secret underground hangout so i told them all to indicate to the right to see how long it would be before someone made a thread about it here

Jaysoose

neacy69 wrote: »

Always happy to help.....:)

I was correcting this mistake



I thought I made that pretty obvious......hence the use of bold ...but I'll underline it for you here in case you miss it again....

Yawn:rolleyes: argue with somebody else because im not interested.

neacy69

Jaysoose wrote: »

Yawn:rolleyes: argue with somebody else because im not interested.

Apology Accepted...;)

Jaysoose

neacy69 wrote: »

Apology Accepted...;)

yawn...your hilarious.

Dr_H_Lecter

for 2nd exit i just take over both lanes as invariably if driving correctly in the left lane for the second exit one of the following will happen. a)A and her children in their 1.1 atos will be trundling/wobbling along in the right lane right beside me and ill have to slow down as i know that she doesnt know what on earth she is doing. b) B in their suped up honda dutchgold will try to overtake me in the right lane or c) C in his blacked out audi will try the same.

edited by the pc brigade

seamus

Vegeta wrote: »

EDIT: Ahhhhhh now I see it. It says "straight ahead" i.e. 180 degrees or 12 o clock, NOT second exit. It says for "any later exits" (which are after 180 degrees ) to use the method I described above. All is well again

Indeed, I changed my post because I hadn't realised that they'd actually clarified the situation in the ROTR. The old version used to use words like "first", "second" and "subsequent".

Boskowski

MOG7 wrote: »

+1. Simple as that, its not really a hard one to understand so how can people do it wrong.

Different countries different rules, simple as that. I learned driving outside Ireland. And going by the Irish standard of driving I have to assume that I'm better of going by what I learned. SCNR

Also where I learned driving roundabouts aren't used so much as a cheap replacement for junctions with signals. You see a lot of roundabouts with 5 or even 6 exits. So I guess this is where our more generic rule comes from. In any case I find our rule easier to understand but not necessarily more correct. Any rule is good as long as everybody is aware of that same rule. It is that half the people aren't even bothered with the rules (or not knowing them like me ) which makes it so dangerous...

EDIT:
Reading up on the stuff on recent changes. That 12'o'clock stuff is completely ridiculous. Half the drivers are just about able to safely enter a roundabout - like as in wait 'til it's safe to drive - and are seriously over-challenged with advanced stuff like picking the correct lane and proper indicating and such. Now are you guys telling me it's the right thing to have a rule on deciding whether to indicate or not by judging whether the exit describes more than a 180 angle???

jim o doom

dead right - how hard is it to indicated in the right direction - The indicator stalk indicates the correct direction with the turn of the wheel. If u need to turn left then the stalk goes down (if it's on the left) with the turn of the wheel - or the opposite if it's on the far side like in some imports - how hard is that simple idea to understand

Omcd

This has turned into an interesting (yawn) debate about the very finer details of how a roundabout should be used. However, in reality and getting back to the OPs original post, I think the problem is that most Irish drivers havn't a clue about indicating on roundabouts at all or just dont bother. If everyone practised what they preached then we would all be using roundabouts properly. The reality is somewhat different.

I know the way to use indicators on roundabouts for the second exit and have practised that religiously (even though I think a rule saying you should enter a roundabout and not indicate at all until you get somewhere on it is idiotic in the first place) for 20 years - until a few months ago, I got fed up with the number of drivers pulling out in front of me from the 1st exit assuming that I was going to take the first exit without indicating (which most Irish drivers using roundabouts actually do whether they are supposed to or not) so now on some roundabouts usually tight double lane roundabouts I always indicate right if there are drivers waiting at the first exit to tell them I'm going to cross their path, because it seems to be absolutely essential in reality nowadays.

Its also to do with roundabout design, on some roundabouts indicating right past the exit is not necessary as the angle of your car as you approach the exit makes it obvious you are not exiting, but on other roundabouts such as the one for Trim on the N3 at Black Bull, not indicating right as you pass the first exit in the outer most lane is almost guaranteed to have the driver waiting at 1st exit to pull out front of you (unless you cut into the inner most lane which is most drivers solution, but that IMO is much more dangerous)

In short indicating right past 1st exit to get to 2nd exit is necessary as defensive driving in many cases now. Also bear in mind if some muppet does pull out in front of you causing a collision on the roundabout, its going to be 50/50 liability whether or not you were indicating, or should have been indicating or not, or whether or not the other driver actually caused the accident. Roundabouts are 50/50 regardless of anything, so in practise IMHO the onus is on you to do whatever is necessary to inform other drivers of your intention and make sure you're not in an accident on a roundabout whosoever caused it.

robbie99

I remember seeing an exemption in the ROTR for BMW drivers but can't find it anymore. Anyone?

Vegeta

peasant wrote: »

Nope ...nothing will ever be "well" when it comes to roundabout driving.

Yes, there are rules that should basically make it clear how to indicate and which lane to use.

But (Other than people doing it wrong) there is hardly a roundabout in this country to which those rules can actually be applied without having to interpret them first.

- roundabouts where arrows on the road override the rules ...but how do you see the blooming arrows in heavy traffic?

- roundabouts where two lane entries disappear into one lane only exits

- roundabouts with no or inappropriate signage

- roundabouts with stupid greenery planted in everybodies line of sight

- roundabouts with traffic lights

- - "painted on" roundabouts that are impossible to negotiate without driving over at least one line, if not the whole thing altogether

the examples are endless ...

I agree, when I said "all is well" I meant with how I perceived the rules of the road operated in respect to roundabouts. Not that roundabouts are a good thing.

You should drive the N7 from Birdhill to Limerick. added 2 more roundabouts onto a main road both of which force the drivers on the national road to give way to drivers from regional roads.

Berty

Vegeta wrote: »

I agree, when I said "all is well" I meant with how I perceived the rules of the road operated in respect to roundabouts. Not that roundabouts are a good thing.

You should drive the N7 from Birdhill to Limerick. added 2 more roundabouts onto a main road both of which force the drivers on the national road to give way to drivers from regional roads.

Soooooo true. The birdhill one is not soo bad but all traffic from Castleconnel gets right of way further in and worse people who gets stuck in the tail back sneak onto the castleconnell road to get on at the rounadbout just making matters worse.

Anyway yes back to the original question.

WHO is teaching them(roundabout fiends) this mischief?

smash

It's simple... Irish people don't know how to use roundabout, or yellow box's either actually!

A friend of mine approached a roundabout and was turning right so he was in the right lane, a car was in the left lane and going straight. When there was an opening he moved on and the guy beside him didn't even bother driving in his lane and instead, he just cut across the 2 lanes to drive straight through. My friend planted his hand on the horn as he nearly got pushed into the roundabout itself and next thing the blue lights came on - the guy was a cop and he told me friend he should arrest him for dangerous driving. Luckily there was a witness who told the cop where to go!

I find this a lot on roundabouts or corners with more than 1 lane - people just can't stay between the lines in their own lanes!