Why should I care about or help the poor and starving people of the world

JohnGalt

Seriously, why is it my problem

phenomenon

Kevin Myers returns

Agamemnon

Kevin, you sucked ass on the Panel.

Holsten

You shouldn't, **** em.

TheDublinMan

JohnGalt wrote: »

Seriously, why is it my problem

It's not your problem and if you don't want to help the people you don't have to.
It's your prerogative what you do with your money I'm sure you spend it on meaningful things. Things like flat screen tvs, cars etc.
There's a place for people like you.;)
Hell

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

The O'Reilly JohnGalt Factor.

Dudess

TheDublinMan wrote: »

It's not your problem and if you don't want to help the people you don't have to.
It's your prerogative what you do with your money

To be fair, that's perfectly correct.

jordano

What goes around comes around dude! You may need help some day.

projectmayhem

TheDublinMan wrote: »

It's not your problem and if you don't want to help the people you don't have to.
It's your prerogative what you do with your money

Absolutely correct.

I like my flat panel tv, laptop, nice clothes et al.

...But for the OP, you have to think at some point, that those poor starving people less fortunate could have so easily been you.

Latchy

JohnGalt wrote: »

Seriously, why is it my problem

Who said it was ? Did somebody say it was your problem personally ? Millions of people give to the starving millions quietly and millions of others dont but the latter dont feel the need to start a thread about it .Prhaps guilt is involved

mikemac

JohnGalt wrote: »

Seriously, why is it my problem

Rest easy OP

If you're a taxpayer the government is doing it for you:
The Government has allocated a record €914 million for Official Development Assistance (ODA) this year

€914 million is lot of money no question even if it's tiny fraction of GNP

Guy:Incognito

jordano wrote: »

What goes around comes around dude! You may need help some day.

Do you really think if you send some money to Africa it'll help you later in life when you fall on hard times.

When it happens, dial 1800-trocairecongo and ask them to send you a few quid.

Theres is no obligation to give money to anything and nor should there be. There is also not excuse for tryign to guilt or force people to donate their own money. If people decide to , then fair enough, otherwise gtfo.

arybvtcw0eolkf

projectmayhem wrote: »

...But for the OP, you have to think at some point, that those poor starving people less fortunate could have so easily been you.

Or to put it another way...

'There but for the grace of God go I'.

I'm a pretty charitable person, I don't feel obliged to donate. But I do, it makes me feel good (am I being selfish?) and I do think it makes a difference.

Its also very rewarding, one of the best things I've done was worked with orphaned children in Lebanon (I'm sure there's a photo of me on boards.ie somewhere with the kids).

That was seven years ago, I still think of them often and wonder how they are & if they remembered us.

SeekUp

Mairt wrote: »

Or to put it another way...

'There but for the grace of God go I'.

I'm a pretty charitable person, I don't feel obliged to donate. But I do, it makes me feel good (am I being selfish?) and I do think it makes a difference.

This reminds me of a Friends episode where Phoebe tries to do something nice for someone else because it's a nice thing to do, not because it makes her feel good. But the two go hand in hand. Awwww . . .

Anyway, to the OP -- it's not your problem per se, it's just basic human decency. If more people gave a tiny fraction of what they could (be it money/time/whatever), it would really go a long way and there wouldn't be as many people suffering.

Pay it forward man, pay it forward.

brianthebard

Because op to an extent,its your fault.maybe not directly,but eu and tnc interference and neo colonialism in the 3rd world is responsible for a lot of underdevelopment and poverty

arybvtcw0eolkf

brianthebard wrote: »

Because op to an extent,its your fault.maybe not directly,but eu and tnc interference and neo colonialism in the 3rd world is responsible for a lot of underdevelopment and poverty

Cat among the birdies!..

komodosp

You might say they shouldn't try to "guilt" you into it, but sometimes people don't understand the suffering that other people are going through, and when someone tries to tell them about it, they think the tellers are trying to guilt them into it.

Most people are decent enough that if they spot someone in trouble, they will try to help them out, but for a lot of people it seems that the further away, the less deserving the suffering person is of their help. But they are suffering just as much no matter how far they are from the would-be helper, no matter how different their language or skin colour. One may be sick of seeing the ads on TV, but no where near as sick as they are of malnutrition, disease. hunger, cold.

phenomenon

brianthebard wrote: »

Because op to an extent,its your fault.maybe not directly,but eu and tnc interference and neo colonialism in the 3rd world is responsible for a lot of underdevelopment and poverty

*sigh* I was waiting for somebody to bring this up...
Ireland never had any overseas colonies or slaves. Even if it did, today's generation can't be held responsible for something our ancestors did centuries ago. The whole "white guilt" argument has an antagonising effect imo. If I give money to Africa its out of sympathy, not guilt.

jordano

Stekelly wrote: »

Do you really think if you send some money to Africa it'll help you later in life when you fall on hard times.

When it happens, dial 1800-trocairecongo and ask them to send you a few quid.

Theres is no obligation to give money to anything and nor should there be. There is also not excuse for tryign to guilt or force people to donate their own money. If people decide to , then fair enough, otherwise gtfo.

You are missing the point, I am talking about Karma. If everyone had your attitude the world be an unforgiving place, let the poor nations starve while other's have so much they don't know what to do with it. If you don't want to give to charity don't, no one is forcing you!

latenia

JohnGalt wrote: »

Seriously, why is it my problem

Imagine what would happen if they turned off social welfare tomorrow. After a day or 2 we would all have to live in compounds with shotguns.

Biggins

Why should you care...?

Because "caring" separates us from the animals of this world...
Because "caring" reminds us that "there but for the grace of god, go I..."
Because "caring" acknowledges that we are just temporary tenants of this Earth, not owners...
Because "caring" makes us grateful for what we have, what others don't, reminds us of that difference and makes us more appreciative...
Because "caring" means you are a thoughtful, passionate, non-egotistical being that is willing to step forth and be counted...

but then again, you have the right not to care and not be all those things (which would be sad)!

wudangclan

phenomenon wrote: »

*sigh* I was waiting for somebody to bring this up...
Ireland never had any overseas colonies or slaves. Even if it did, today's generation can't be held responsible for something our ancestors did centuries ago. The whole "white guilt" argument has an antagonising effect imo. If I give money to Africa its out of sympathy, not guilt.

but we are current members of the eu which operates the current agricultural policy ,most of the beneficiaries of which are the huge agricultural mutlinationals (not just the poor farmer up the road),who then foist the surplus produce (which our taxes subsidise) on third world countries,skewing the local markets and putting local producers out of business,and then agriculture being the main employer in most third world countries,these people then emigrate to europe and we throw them in cloverhill for their trouble.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Biggins wrote: »

Why should you care...?

Because "caring" separates us from the animals of this world...
Because "caring" reminds us that "there but for the grace of god, go I..."
Because "caring" acknowledges that we are just temporary tenants of this Earth, not owners...
Because "caring" makes us grateful for what we have, what others don't, reminds us of that difference and makes us more appreciative...
Because "caring" means you are a thoughtful, passionate, non-egotistical being that is willing to step forth and be counted...

but then again, you have the right not to care and not be all those things (which would be sad)!

And sadly to some people ...

Because "caring" mean's less money in my pocket.

Biggins

Mairt wrote: »

And sadly to some people ...

Because "caring" mean's less money in my pocket.

Who says you only have to give money only to care, how about "time" and "effort"?

ejmaztec

JohnGalt wrote: »

Seriously, why is it my problem

If you don't send 'em money, they'll haul their skinny asses up here and "tuk yer jarb". Then you'll starve to death because the Social Welfare won't be able to fund your lavish lifestyle.

LivingDeadGirl

Tbh I never give to charity, because there's so fcuking many of them plaguing me in the form of chuggers and disturbing ads on tv. I don't have a problem with these ads per se, but when there's 3+ during a break I get pretty annoyed. Maybe if they didn't come on so strong I'd care, but maybe not. I'm 17 years of age, still in school, as if I have spare cash to give to GOAL or SHARE or Trocaire or whatever other cause Mr. Gobshite charity mugger is attacking me for, I don't even have the money to get the bus. Just leave me alone.

Kold

Well is the only reason you brake if someone's crossing the road fear of prosecution?

phenomenon

wudangclan wrote: »

but we are current members of the eu which operates the current agricultural policy ,most of the beneficiaries of which are the huge agricultural mutlinationals (not just the poor farmer up the road),who then foist the surplus produce (which our taxes subsidise) on third world countries,skewing the local markets and putting local producers out of business,and then agriculture being the main employer in most third world countries,these people then emigrate to europe and we throw them in cloverhill for their trouble.

Again this isn't my fault. I wish the EU didn't flood third world markets with our surplus produce but I'm powerless to make a change unless a referendum is held on the issue. The EU don't act in my name or represent me. Again I want to emphasize that I do sympathize with the world's poor and would happily give to a genuine charity but I'm not accepting the blame for their situation.

rotinaj

Giving makes me feel a lot better.. Heres a usual credit Card statement for me..

Online Gambling 500
Porn 200
Barnardos 25
Useless other stuff 200

That 25 makes me feel a lot better about the rest

Agamemnon

Kold wrote: »

Well is the only reason you brake if someone's crossing the road fear of prosecution?

No, I brake because I hate it when inconsiderate tossers scrape paint off my car with their skulls. :mad:

TPD

d3mon24 wrote: »

Giving makes me feel a lot better.. Heres a usual credit Card statement for me..

Online Gambling 500
Porn 200
Barnardos 25
Useless other stuff 200

That 25 makes me feel a lot better about the rest

You pay for porn?!?

rotinaj

TPD wrote: »

You pay for porn?!?

Yeah. Your ma dont do it for free;)

Macha

phenomenon wrote: »

Again this isn't my fault. I wish the EU didn't flood third world markets with our surplus produce but I'm powerless to make a change unless a referendum is held on the issue. The EU don't act in my name or represent me. Again I want to emphasize that I do sympathize with the world's poor and would happily give to a genuine charity but I'm not accepting the blame for their situation.

You're either part of the solution or part of the problem.

And what about ecological debt? What sort of ecological footprint do you have? Does your lifestyle require resources from other countries that Ireland's land area cannot provide? If so, you're part of the problem.

What exactly is your definition of a "genuine charity"?

Edit: Do you buy products that are so cheap that they cannot be produced without the violation of the rights of workers, ie Penneys?

brianthebard

phenomenon wrote: »

*sigh* I was waiting for somebody to bring this up...
Ireland never had any overseas colonies or slaves. Even if it did, today's generation can't be held responsible for something our ancestors did centuries ago. The whole "white guilt" argument has an antagonising effect imo. If I give money to Africa its out of sympathy, not guilt.

You clearly didn't even read my post, or don't understand the term neo-colonialism. Its not colonialism by political control, its much more insidious. Look it up before criticising.

tolosenc

Biggins wrote: »

Because "caring" separates us from the animals of this world...
Because "caring" reminds us that "there but for the grace of god, go I..."
Because "caring" acknowledges that we are just temporary tenants of this Earth, not owners...
Because "caring" makes us grateful for what we have, what others don't, reminds us of that difference and makes us more appreciative...
Because "caring" means you are a thoughtful, passionate, non-egotistical being that is willing to step forth and be counted...

Yes, Comrade.

phenomenon

taconnol wrote: »

You're either part of the solution or part of the problem.

And what about ecological debt? What sort of ecological footprint do you have? Does your lifestyle require resources from other countries that Ireland's land area cannot provide? If so, you're part of the problem.

What exactly is your definition of a "genuine charity"?

A genuine charity is one that makes sure the donated money goes to those in need and spent on food, clothes and shelter rather than to some loopy dictator who spends his countrie's budget on guns while his people starve.

I was born into a society that relies on electricity, industry and cars etc to function so of course I leave a carbon footprint and use up imported resources, just like you. You're as guilty as me on this one buddy. However, I'm not from a very affluent background and have only been on a plane once in my life so I'd imagine my carbon footprint is significantly lower than most others. On top of this I use public transport all the time as I don't have a car.

In fact its poor developing countries like China and India that are causing the most damage to the environment because they don't know how to handle waste properly yet.

Gummy Panda

d3mon24 wrote: »

Giving makes me feel a lot better.. Heres a usual credit Card statement for me..

Online Gambling 500
Porn 200
Barnardos 25
Useless other stuff 200

That 25 makes me feel a lot better about the rest

what the fcuk sort of porn are you looking at that costs 200?

Macha

phenomenon wrote: »

A genuine charity is one that makes sure the donated money goes to those in need and spent on food, clothes and shelter rather than to some loopy dictator who spends his countrie's budget on guns while his people starve.

Genuine charities do exist.

phenomenon wrote: »

I was born into a society that relies on electricity, industry and cars etc to function so of course I leave a carbon footprint and use up imported resources, just like you. You're as guilty as me on this one buddy. However, I'm not from a very affluent background and have only been on a plane once in my life so I'd imagine my carbon footprint is significantly lower than most others. On top of this I use public transport all the time as I don't have a car.

WoohoO! Admission of guilt! And yes I am as guilty as you - no avoiding it there. I was just making the point that actions here can impact elsewhere. The consumer does have a considerable amount of power.

phenomenon wrote: »

In fact its poor developing countries like China and India that are causing the most damage to the environment because they don't know how to handle waste properly yet.

Actually if it's taken at a per capita basis, Ireland does far more damage than either of these countries. It isn't correct to look on it in a country-by-country basis because these countries are then at a disadvantage by the simple fact that they are larger and have bigger populations. If each Chinese person had the same ecological footprint as the average Irish person, we would all be posting from our boat-houses.

RoosterIllusion

jordano wrote: »

What goes around comes around dude! You may need help some day.

Bull**** tbh.

TPD

d3mon24 wrote: »

Yeah. Your ma dont do it for free;)

So, you pay my ma to make porn, and then watch that? Seems quite an elaborate way of getting your rocks off, but whatever floats your boat.

Biggins

JohnGalt wrote: »

Seriously, why is it my problem

...if you really have to ask the question, no answer will be adequate for you to understand at this juncture of your life!

Piste

If you pay income tax you give to charity through the governments aid. No one "has" to care about or help anyone, dunno where the OP got that idea.

Macha

micmclo wrote: »

Rest easy OP

If you're a taxpayer the government is doing it for you:
The Government has allocated a record €914 million for Official Development Assistance (ODA) this year

€914 million is lot of money no question even if it's tiny fraction of GNP

When divided down per capita, it works out at less than €200 per person.
Wow. What a sacrifice, what charity.

By the way - the amount that we give is less than the 0.7% of GNP, as asked by the UN of every economically advanced country.

JohnGalt

Taking money from somebody by force and then passing it on to another country in the form of aid does not fit the definition of charity, and unless I evade tax (which I wouldn't mind doing) I can' avoid it. So quite obviously I am questioning why i should give to charity or help the poor or starving of the world through my own choice. I am am asking the question why should I care because it is often suggested that I should by various tv campaigns, charities, posters and billboards etc. The point that if everybody had my attitude the world would be a worse place holds no water whatsoever, firstly it is not the case, many people have completely different views than I do on this matter and they will continue to give and help out regardless of my attitude, so it is not really important, and secondly, yes the I am sure the world would be a worse place for the poor and starving if everybody decided not to bother with charity, but this doesn't mean it would be a worse place for me, it would probably be better in fact because I would not have to see another stupid Concern ad on TV. The point that it could just as easily be me is equally empty, as the fact is that it is not me who is starving and poor, I was not born in Ethiopia into poor family, I never will be, and I don't have to deal with that problem. I think one of the main reasons why people give to charity is a sense of guilt about the fact that they are living in an comfortable existence only through the absurdity of blind chance, while others are not so lucky. I should capitalise on this advantage to enjoy my life, not worry about others not born here and waste my resources trying to alleviate some senseless guilt.

Biggins

JohnGalt wrote: »

Taking money from somebody by force and then passing it on to another country in the form of aid does not fit the definition of charity, and unless I evade tax (which I wouldn't mind doing) I can' avoid it. So quite obviously I am questioning why i should give to charity or help the poor or starving of the world through my own choice. I am am asking the question why should I care because it is often suggested that I should by various tv campaigns, charities, posters and billboards etc. The point that if everybody had my attitude the world would be a worse place holds no water whatsoever, firstly it is not the case, many people have completely different views than I do on this matter and they will continue to give and help out regardless of my attitude, so it is not really important, and secondly, yes the I am sure the world would be a worse place for the poor and starving if everybody decided not to bother with charity, but this doesn't mean it would be a worse place for me, it would probably be better in fact because I would not have to see another stupid Concern ad on TV. The point that it could just as easily be me is equally empty, as the fact is that it is not me who is starving and poor, I was not born in Ethiopia into poor family, I never will be, and I don't have to deal with that problem. I think one of the main reasons why people give to charity is a sense of guilt about the fact that they are living in an comfortable existence only through the absurdity of blind chance, while others are not so lucky. I should capitalise on this advantage to enjoy my life, not worry about others not born here and waste my resources trying to alleviate some senseless guilt.

No more to be said then about yourself. The rest is obvious.

JohnGalt

Biggins wrote: »

No more to be said then about yourself. The rest is obvious.

Ominous..........

No really, what is that supposed to mean?

Macha

JohnGalt wrote: »

Taking money from somebody by force and then passing it on to another country in the form of aid does not fit the definition of charity, and unless I evade tax (which I wouldn't mind doing) I can' avoid it. So quite obviously I am questioning why i should give to charity or help the poor or starving of the world through my own choice. I am am asking the question why should I care because it is often suggested that I should by various tv campaigns, charities, posters and billboards etc. The point that if everybody had my attitude the world would be a worse place holds no water whatsoever, firstly it is not the case, many people have completely different views than I do on this matter and they will continue to give and help out regardless of my attitude, so it is not really important, and secondly, yes the I am sure the world would be a worse place for the poor and starving if everybody decided not to bother with charity, but this doesn't mean it would be a worse place for me, it would probably be better in fact because I would not have to see another stupid Concern ad on TV. The point that it could just as easily be me is equally empty, as the fact is that it is not me who is starving and poor, I was not born in Ethiopia into poor family, I never will be, and I don't have to deal with that problem. I think one of the main reasons why people give to charity is a sense of guilt about the fact that they are living in an comfortable existence only through the absurdity of blind chance, while others are not so lucky. I should capitalise on this advantage to enjoy my life, not worry about others not born here and waste my resources trying to alleviate some senseless guilt.

You can tell yourself the above arguments over and over but what it really comes down to is something that you are clearly lacking: compassion.

luckylucky

taconnol wrote: »

You can tell yourself the above arguments over and over but what it really comes down to is something that you are clearly lacking: compassion.

he's probably a 4x4 driver

Macha

luckylucky wrote: »

he's probably a 4x4 driver

LOL - I bet.

Actually, JohnGalt, according to Einstein, you're suffering from an optical delusion:

A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.

JohnGalt

taconnol wrote: »

LOL - I bet.

Actually, JohnGalt, according to Einstein, you're suffering from an optical delusion:

The only occasions on which I would be happy to have a difference of opinion with Einstein are when he moves outside empirical science and into philosophy, like he has done here.

MoominPapa

Sounds like someone has just discovered Ayn Rand