GAMSAT: A guide

PhoenixIRE

Hi everyone,

So over the summer I decided that I would try and get into postgrad medicine, and at a whim decided to sit the GAMSAT in London in September. I was initially very addled and intimidated by the prospect of the exam, as the marking scheme is shrouded in secrecy and everyone seems to think it is an excrutiatingly difficult test to take and prepare for. I spent quite some time lurking on this and other boards, compiling scraps of information and advice that I tried to work into my preparation. I promised myself that if I did well, I'd come back and create this thread to try and help those like myself who are facing into the exam.

The GAMSAT UK results came out last Wednesday, the 5th of November, and I was pleasantly surprised with my overall score of 71, especially because I thought I had rammed the exam. I'll try and layout exactly what I did, when, and post links to other resources that I found resourceful. I hope this cuts down the groundwork for others and lets you concentrate on studying rather than surfing the web.

THE BASICS

So you want to get into postgrad medicine in Ireland, but found that you must sit and preform well at an exam called the GAMSAT. GAMSAT has been utilised in Australia and the UK for a few years, and the first Irish sitting was in 2007. Entry into the UL, UCC, UCD, RSCI and NUIG (hopefully coming online in 2010) graduate-entry medicine courses is based entirely upon the results you obtain on the GAMSAT. In the UK, your results are simply to determine whether or not you are granted an interview. Score one for Ireland.

The GAMSAT seems to have been devised as a holistic exam, with 50% of the marks going for your proficiency in the humanities, communication and social sciences, with the other 50% going for the three basic sciences (Physics, Chemistry and Biology.) In this way it should select for people who are not simply exceptional at science, but who also have the necessary interpersonal and empathatic skills. It also enables applicants from non-scientific backgrounds to try their hand at medicine. I'm sure we all know of people who achieved medicine in the Leaving Cert with 600 points who will probably make terrible doctors simply because they see medicine as a chance to showcase their intellect, rather than a bona-fide opportunity to help people. Hopefully the GAMSAT will go some way to ensuring that this is not the case at postgrad level by rewarding those with a genuine humanistic bent.

The GAMSAT exam will take pretty much a whole day; I arrived at eight in the morning and didn't get out until about 17:15. Of this time, roughly 5.5 hours were actual exam time, the rest being taken up with registration, a break and lunch. It may sound gruelling, but once in there the time actually flies.

Acer is the company that run and organise the GAMSAT, and their website http://www.gamsat-ie.org/ has some very important information that you should definately peruse. Firstly, the Irish GAMSAT will be held on the 21st of March, 2009. Registration for the exam is currently open, but will close on the 3rd of February, 2009.

You can sit GAMSAT Ireland 2009 at Dublin, Cork, Limerick, London, and Melbourne Australia.

The cost of registering for the exam is 300 euro.

Acer's official GAMSAT information booklet can be located here: http://www.gamsat-ie.org/images/infobook/GAMSAT_IrelandIB09.pdf
and it should get you started on what you need to know.



Exam composition

As mentioned above, the exam draws upon both knowledge in the traditional sciences and in the humanities and social sciences. It is divided into three sections; section 1 and 2 deal with the humanities, while section 3 deals with the standard sciences.

Section 1 is in a multiple choice format, each question having four possible answers. There are 70 questions to be completed in 100 minutes, effectively giving you 1.33 minutes per question. You do, however, get 5 minutes at the start of the exam to take a look, but will be unable to write in this time.

The seventy questions will be divided up into between 10-15 units, each unit with its own stimulus material. This is good news, because it means you won't have to read new stuff for every single question, one passage will generally get you 3-10 questions, so you can afford to spend some time reading and understanding it.

The content of section one varies considerably: passages from literature and poetry abound, but so too do cartoons, graphs, and more esoteric methods of displaying data. For instance, the first question on the UK paper was based on a graphical code for annotating dance: the candidate was expected to understand and absorb the information and then answer questions such as: what direction does the right foot move in the 8th beat, or which body part rotates first.

Basically, they can give you anything in this section, and it is probably the hardest section to prepare for. It seems to examine your ability to adapt to novel forms of information rapidly, as well as look at your ability to understand both people and the english language. If you think of it as a glorified IQ test you won't go too far wrong.

Section 2 is an extension of the Reasoning in Humanities and Social Sciences. It commences after a 10-15 minute break from section 1, and you are expected to write 2 essays in 60 minutes, giving you a half-hour per essay. There is once again 5 minutes to peruse the paper, but again you can't write anything during this time. You will be given a set of related quotes for each essay, and you are to write your essay on one or more of these quotes, whilst addressing the underlying theme.

The first essay is to be written in an argumentative style, basically it should be a debate for or against your quote(s) and demonstrate your ability to identify arguments both for and against your chosen quotes. An appreciation of the strong and weak points of your argument is a must.

The second essay is to be written in a personal/discursive style, and I feel that it is there to give an insight into your 'soul'. You must select a quote/quotes and talk about them from a personal perspective, rather than in a debating manner. More than anywhere else, this essay is your opportunity to demonstrate that you are a empathetic, responsible individual who would be a great choice for medicine .

In the UK exam this year, the argumentative essay was based upon the theme of racism, while the personal/discursive was based upon optimism vs pessimism.

After this section, you have an hour for lunch. In practice it worked out at only about 45 minutes, and I found it worthwhile to peruse some condensed notes to help my brain make the transition from an english to a scientific mode.

Section 3 deals with the standard leaving cert trinity of science: Physics, Chemistry and Biology. There are 110 questions to be done in 170 minutes, allowing roughly 1.5 minutes per question. This time you have 10 minutes to take a look at the paper before you can start writing. Like in section 1, it is multiple choice, with 4 possible answers per question. Likewise, the 110 questions are broken into units, so you won't be reading new material for every question. This is definately a good thing.

There is less emphasis upon physics than chemistry or biology. Physics will account for roughly 20% of the marks in section 3, while biology and chemistry will account for roughly 40% each. Therefore it would be worthwhile making sure that you're up to speed with both chemistry and biology.

There is no official curriculum for the GAMSAT science section, but ACER do say that knowledge of biology and chemistry to a 1st year University level should be sufficient, whilst Leaving Cert physics will be fine.

In practice, biology seems to be the vehicle for presenting you with graphs and other information, and allowing you to make deductions from here. In this manner it is very like section 1, forcing you to rely upon commonsense rather than drilled facts. Chemistry deals with both physical chemistry (stoichiometry, the periodic table, thermochemistry) and also organic chemistry. The bad news is that the organic chemistry in the GAMSAT is far more detailed than that presented in the Leaving Cert, and it was definately this section that frightened me initially.

Physics is as it was in the leaving cert, with emphasis on rearranging formulas and lateral thinking.


Preparation and Recommended Materials.

It seems that most people on the internet recommend a period of between 4-6 months of preparation for the GAMSAT; I myself managed with slightly less than 2 months, but this was possible due to the fact that I am in a science degree and had chemistry and physics at Leaving Cert, plus the fact that I have always had a penchant for English. I'd hazard that 2 months is probably the minimum amount of time necessary for the GAMSAT.

The first thing you'll want to do is order the (horrendously insufficient) preparation material from ACER; the only official material out there. ACER sell 3 booklets with sample GAMSAT questions in an exam format.

2 of the booklets, GAMSAT Practice Questions and GAMSAT Sample Questions, are basically half-exams. They do, however, include explanations for quite a few of the multiple choice questions. Each booklet sells for 15 pounds sterling.

The third booklet, GAMSAT Practice Test, is a full mock test, but sadly doesn't include explanations for why some questions are right or others wrong, leaving you to figure it out for yourself. This one sells for 25 pounds sterling. You can view and order this preparation material from here: http://www.ucasbooks.co.uk/acatalog/GAMSAT_Preparation_Material.html

While these are undoubtably very important resources, because they enable you to see and understand the layout of the exam, as well as get an idea of the difficulty involved and practice your timing; they still don't give you much guidance as to what exactly you should be studying. This was the big problem that faced me when I decided I wanted to sit the exam: where the hell do I start?

I have always had a problem with chemistry; and so this was what bore the brunt of my attentions. I utilised my chemistry textbook from college, Chemistry: The central science (http://www.amazon.com/Chemistry-Central-Theodore-L-Brown/dp/013218642X) and worked my way through each chapter, doing a lot of the questions along the way. I found it important to make concise notes from each chapter, since there is a lot of waffle in it. I did find it useful to read it relatively leisurely, but compiled notes in bullet-point form that I could drill at a later date.

However, my travels on the internet led me to realise that the organic chemistry section of even this textbook was woefully inadequate, and a surprising remedy was suggested: Organic Chemistry for Dummies. (http://www.amazon.com/Organic-Chemistry-Dummies-Arthur-Winter/dp/0764569023/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226170632&sr=1-1)

This book was really amazing, it was written in a light, funny style, and there is even a whole section dealing with the basics of physical chemistry that are always worth brushing up on (orbitals, acids and bases etc.) I ordered it from Amazon for a very reasonable price and was delighted I did.

In addition I utilised the Rapid Revision Chemistry book from the leaving cert as a quick refresher; though you definately will need more information than this book provided. Still, a great way to get you kick-started and rolling.

As for Biology, I used my college textbook 'Biology' (http://www.amazon.com/Biology-Neil-Campbell/dp/080537146X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226170931&sr=1-1), paying paticular attention to cell based material, metabolism and respiration, as well as the major organ systems (cardiovascular, pulmonary, muscoskeletal, neuronal, renal and endocrine.) Realistically speaking, you could chill with this aspect of the exam: most of the material seems to be commonsense rather than regurgitation of facts: indeed that's what the GAMSAT is about, it stresses lateral thinking. However, there's an awful lot more to be done in chemistry and even physics.

Physics proved to be a bit more interesting. I learned Rapid Revision Physics backwards, and it was very handy. I also used my college textbook 'Physics' (http://www.amazon.com/Physics-John-D-Cutnell/dp/0471151831/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226171201&sr=1-1) to help with areas I had trouble in, such as magnetism and electric fields.



I also availed of one of the many preparation resources out there, the Ozimed practice papers- http://www.ozimed.com/ . Basically, they give you 10 full length practice papers, based on the theory that standard study will only get you so far and practicing timing is very valuable.

I really can't say how much they helped me, but I was slightly underwhelmed by the papers. Section 1 was far too easy, scoring 90% or over in half the time given was commonplace. Section 2 had both essays comprised of argumentative style essays, no discursive ones. Finally section 3 dealt with Physics at a higher level than was necessary, and a lot of the questions in biology and chemistry expected you to remember and recall arcane information like in the leaving cert, rather than the more dynamic, lateral-thinking approach necessitated by the GAMSAT proper.

My sentiments seem to be mirrored by many people who have ordered the OZIMED papers, but they argue that they are invaluable for developing timing. Unfortunately, I can't even make this statement, as I lost track of time in section three and had to rush the last thirteen questions, blindly guessing at the last two without even reading the question. Nevertheless, perhaps it helped me acclimatise to the exam format or something else. I refuse to believe that I spent 200+ euro plus on something that wasn't worthwhile :P.

I made it my business to write between four and five essays a week, drawing on general themes and a mix of argumentative and discursive essays. Section 1 I revised for using the OZIMED papers, allowing myself only a single look through the stimulus material and forcing myself to answer the questions without looking back. In this way I compensated for the low difficulty, and hopefully helped develop focus and information retention.


Many people I've come across whilst lurking on the internet swear by Des O' Neils courses (http://www.comptext.com.au/). I can't vouch for them myself, but I can tell you that they are quite expensive . Another prep course I have heard recommended is Medprep International (http://www.medprepinternational.com/). However, bear in mind that all of these are unofficial, so caveat emptor.

I heard of another resource that came highly recommended, but sadly it was too late to be of much use for me. MCAT's Exam Kracker Verbal Reasoning (http://www.amazon.com/Examkrackers-MCAT101-Passages-Verbal-Reasoning/dp/1893858553/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226172986&sr=8-2) has been claimed by fellow netizens to be the best resource for developing proficiency in Section 1. If I had the time probably would have bought it.


Marking

Acer are very secretive about how the GAMSAT is marked, offering only perfunctory information. Each section is given a mark, but the mark for section three is multiplied by two, making your section 3 mark quite important. The three results are then added together and divided by four to give your overall GAMSAT score.

Though each of the three sections is given a mark, this is not a percentage mark. That would be too straightforward and unintimidating for the GAMSAT :P. How exactly it is marked is a matter of conjecture, but I have heard from other, unofficial sources theories as to how it is marked.

These sources, located at http://pagingdr.proboards61.com/index.cgi?board=gamsat&action=display&thread=62, say that GAMSAT uses a process called Item Response Theory. To paraphrase and simplify it, basically the MCQ portion of the exam is corrected after the exam is completed. After correction, ACER have statistical information on how many people got each question right. Questions that the majority of people got right are weighted so they are not worth too much, but the questions that 'beat' the majority of candidates are worth much more.

In addition, the scoring seems to use a log scale, as evidenced by the following table provided by Medprep in 2007. Basically it gets progressively harder to gain GAMSAT points as your percentage/raw score increases. Don't worry though, the table below seems to be far more brutal than the one they use in practice, but it should give you an idea that there is a sizeable difference between your GAMSAT score and your raw percentage. (apparently the Medprep material is much easier than the actual GAMSAT material, so they devised an exceptionally nasty table to compensate for it.)



One of the questions I had was how do your practice test scores correlate to your real score on the day?

I charted my progress along the way and here's an example of how my practice sessions rated with my final score:

Sample questions:
S1: 60%
S3: 56%

Practice questions:
S1: 74%
S3: 64%

Practice test:
S1: 72%
S3: 67%

Ozimeds:
S1: 82%-98%
S3: 60%-75%


Actual GAMSAT (not percentages):
S1: 73
S2: 79
S3: 67

Overall: 71
Percentile: 97-98


So you can see that despite some early problems, especially with the sample questions, the end results were quite good. So don't despair if you're not doing great in the practice sessions, especially at the start. It's all a big learning curve.

There's also a thread over at PagingDr where lots of other people do the same type of analysis that you may find interesting:
http://pagingdr.proboards61.com/index.cgi?board=gamsat&action=display&thread=80


Entrance Requirements:

The way that the GAMSAT works in Ireland is simple; the people with the highest scores get the first places. Eventually there will be no more places available and people below this 'cut off mark' will be out of luck.

The cut off mark varies from year to year due to supply and demand, but the results below give you an idea of what it was last year. Typically they seem to have remained steady or even decreased slightly from year to year: there has been no rise to my knowledge.

UL's cut off was a GAMSAT score of 57
UCC's second round cutoff was a score of 56, random selection.
RSCI's cut off was 59
UCD's cut off was 58, random selection.

Keep in mind that UL is increasing its places for the final time in 2009, so the cut off can reliably expected to fall next year, as it has every year since it was established.


Conclusion:

It's definately do-able. Sign up for it and break out the textbooks, giving yourself plenty of time to go over everything. Start on the practice material early to get the feel for the exam.

Always, always bear in mind that timing is paramount: the real difficulty of the GAMSAT is not that the questions are savagely hard (but they're not the easiest either), it's that you must do them under time pressure. As section 1 and 3 are multiple choice, make sure you take a guess even if you have no clue what's going on; there is no negative marking.

Do the official papers under exam conditions; this is essential! It lets you know how intensive the real thing will be. By the same token, don't worry if your results aren't stellar, especially early on.

I'd advise that surfing the internet for advice and opinions is a double edged sword, it can give you handy information but there seems to be an element of hysteria on a lot of the forums I visited that definately freaked me out and made me doubt in myself.

Finally, don't be disheartened if you don't feel it went well; I was absolutely devastated coming out of the exam. I thought I screwed up the argumentative essay and barely looked at the last 13 questions of section 3; yet despite this I did better than I ever dared to hope.

If I can help any of you in any other way, post away below and I'll do my best to help. Otherwise, best of luck with your exam and happy studying!

:cool:
S

ImDave

Sincere thanks for posting the above. Answered a number of questions I have wanted to ask.

charlieroot

Very informative post. Just two small points I'd like to add, the level of knowledge required for the science section is well above LC level. Its more like 1st/2nd year college science level. Second point that I can't emphasis enough is that timing is critical in this exam. I have yet to hear of anyone actually finishing all the science questions. You need to be very cut throat with your timing.

Lastly, best of luck to everyone planning on taking it.

toots_old

Well I heard Limerick didn't fill all 60 places this year, they only took on 50 (I think some were offered Round 3 places or something, and some people dropped out). I also heard that despite original plans, the HEA won't be adding another 60 places on nationally. It will stay at 120 places nationally this year, because the demand wasn't high enough (and obviously partially due to the big "R" word).

There were only 200 or so eligible applicants for GEPs when the offers were handed out (meaning people didn't have 2.1s in their primary degrees, or didn't submit GAMSAT scores or degree transcripts). So this is why the score fell so low.

I think now that people know the scores CAN fall so low, we're gonna have more people submitting results. Therefore we will have more "eligible applicants". However, I think this will only really affect people with scores in the region of 55-58. I'd imagine everyone with 59 or above was confident enough to complete their applications last year. Basically the people with scores >58 should not really be in any greater competition this year, unless we get a flood of people who decide they want to do medicine after all. Anything can happen!

I only got 61 in September and am thinking of sitting the March exams. Just in case! What a pain in the ass. I doubt I can care enough to get higher though! I'll probably fall asleep in the hall.

I was reading some old threads and it was funny to read people predicting cut-off points of 65 due to increased demand! Some seriously bad maths going on there.

onetrueone

Has anyone considered the strong possibilty that there will be an oversupply Of Medical Graduates soon? :eek:

Does anyone know the details of any planning and provision for extra intern places to cope with the increased demand?

I think these points should be considered by anyone thinking of Graduate entry Medicine especially since;

a) Mary Harney is at the helm of the Heath service.

b) Health budgets are under huge pressure.

c) Call me cynical, but swathes of unemployed doctors would serve to be a convenient stick which the Govt/HSE could use to beat the Medical profession into submission.

I am considering Graduate entry Medicine (I'm a Pharmacist) but I am wary of getting myself into huge debt - only to find having completed the course to be unable to get an internship !

Opinions Please!

PhoenixIRE

toots wrote: »

Well I heard Limerick didn't fill all 60 places this year, they only took on 50 (I think some were offered Round 3 places or something, and some people dropped out). I also heard that despite original plans, the HEA won't be adding another 60 places on nationally.

Yeah, I heard this myself recently, it looks like UL will have only around 60 places this year too.

I was reading some old threads and it was funny to read people predicting cut-off points of 65 due to increased demand! Some seriously bad maths going on there.

That stuff put the fear of God in me. Assholes, the lot of them

Has anyone considered the strong possibilty that there will be an oversupply Of Medical Graduates soon?

Does anyone know the details of any planning and provision for extra intern places to cope with the increased demand?

Yeah, that could be a worry. I do know that as it stands now there is enough intern places to facilitate anyone who wants to do an Irish internship, whether they be from the graduate or undergraduate courses: the UCC FAQ says as much. And with the enlargment of UL's course curtailed and an alleged drop off in the number of international students applying (again, from the UCC FAQ) I'd wager we'll be ok. I'd wager 48000 euro to be exact .

a) Mary Harney is at the helm of the Heath service.

Ironic, isn't it?

At any rate, I'm not adverse to seeking an internship abroad, I may even do it if there's places to spare here.

daviper

Hi!

I am giving the GAMSAT in March next year in Dublin. I found the following 'syllabus' for section 3. Do you think this is sufficient or going over board??

Physics
Basic Units/Kinematics

* Projectile Motion
* Motion Equations
* Displacement/Time/Acceleration Graphs
* Vectors/Trigonometry


Newtonian Mechanics

* Force/Mass/Weight
* Laws of Motion
* Momentum


Force and Inertia

* Force Equations
* Momentum/Impulse


Thermodynamics

* Heat Transfer
* Gibbs Free Energy
* Hess's Law
* Entropy
* Enthalpy
* Calorimetry


Fluids/Solids

* Density and Pressure
* Pascal's Principle


Electrostatics

* Charges
* Colombs Law
* Electric Fields
* Electric Potential
* Equi-Potential Lines
* Electric Potential Energy


Magnetism

* Magnetic Field
* Force on a Moving Charge
* Current
* Force on a Current Carrying Wire
* Sources of a Magnetic Field


Circuits

* Direct Current
* Resistance
* Circuit Laws
* Capacitors and Dieletrics


Periodic Motion/Waves/Sound

* Simple Harmonic Motion
* Principles of Superposition and Phase
* Characteristics of Sound and Intensity


Light and Optics

* Reflection
* Mirrors
* Refraction


Nuclear Physics

* Atomic Number
* Mass Number
* Isotope
* Nuclear Reactions/Decay


Chemistry

Periodic Table

* Electronegativity
* Atomic Weights
* Electron Affinity
* Ionisation Energy
* Types of Elements
* Chemistry of Groups


Reaction Types

* Types of Chemical Reactions
* Ionic Equations
* Neutralisation Reactions
* Applications of Stoichiometry
* Titration


Balancing Equations

Bonding

* Covalent and Ionic Bonds
* Hybridisation
* Molecular Orbitals


Intermolecular Forces

Chemical Kinetics

* Reaction Mechanisms
* Reaction Rates
* Reaction Orders
* Efficiency of Reactions
* Factors Affecting Reaction Rate
* Equilibrium
* Law of Mass Action
* Equilibrium Constant


Phases of Matter

* Ideal Gas Law
* Gas Phase
* Real Gasses
* Ideal Gases
* Boyle's Law
* Gay Lussac
* Avogadro's Principle


Solutions

Acids and Bases

* Strong Acids and Bases
* Hydrogen Ion Equilibria
* Weak Acids and Bases
* Applications of Ka and Kb
* Amphoteric Species
* Buffers
* Polyprotic Acids and Bases


Electrochemistry Redox

* Oxidation and Reduction
* Electrochemical Cells
* Electrolytic Cells
* Electro Charge Designations
* Electromotive Force
* Reduction Potentials



Organic Chemistry


Nomenclature

* Alkanes
* Alkenes
* Alkynes
* Alcohols and Ethers
* Aromatic Compounds
* Aldehydes and Ketones
* Sequences: e.g., R=R?= R??=R???= H


Stereochemistry

* Structural Isomerism
* Stereo Isomerism
* Geometric Isomers and Chirality
* Fisher Projections
* Optical Activity
* Meso Compounds
* Diastereomers
* Confirmational Isomerism


Carboxylic Acids

Hydrolysis and Dehydration

Amino Acids and Proteins

Carbohydrates & Sugars
Biology

Eukaryotic and Prokaryotic Organism

Membrane Traffic

* Diffusion
* Osmosis


Cell Division

Enzymatic Activity

* Metabolic Pathways


Cellular Metabolism

Muscular and Skeletal Systems

Digestive Tract

Respiratory and Circulatory System

* Systolic/Diastolic Blood Pressure
* Arterial Pressures - Cuff Pressures
* Uptake of Oxygen Consumption


Immune System

Homeostasis

Endocrine System

Nervous System

Molecular Genetics

* DNA
* RNA


Evolution

Mendelian Genetics

* Dominant/Recessive Genes
* Carriers/Non-Carriers

Thanks for your previous information, it was very helpful.

Faith

PhoenixIRE wrote: »

UL's cut off was a GAMSAT score of 57
UCC's second round cutoff was a score of 56, random selection.
RSCI's cut off was 59
UCD's cut off was 58, random selection.

Hi Phoenix,

Can I ask where you got these figures? I've been meaning to email admissions departments but haven't gotten around to it yet.

ImDave

Faith wrote: »

Hi Phoenix,

Can I ask where you got these figures? I've been meaning to email admissions departments but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Figures can be obtained here.

PhoenixIRE

Hey Daviper:

Your list looks pretty comprehensive all right. If you know all that you should have no bother doing very well. One area in organic it might be worthwhile to go over though is the reaction mechanisms: Ozimed papers definately touched on them and if I recall correctly so did some of the ACER ones.

Other than that, looks great

@ Faith: Hey, yeah ImDave has it nailed, those figures were from this years CAO.

Faith

ImDave wrote: »

Figures can be obtained here.

PhoenixIRE wrote: »

@ Faith: Hey, yeah ImDave has it nailed, those figures were from this years CAO.

Cheers, didn't even think of looking at the CAO points!

mrsladybug

Thanks Phoenix, a great amount of practical information there!

Just wondering what kind of ages people are sitting the gamsat and going on to do postgrad medicine? I'm 24 now...would be 25 starting the course if I got a place in 2009, seems old to me but just wondering if there are many other people out there in the same boat?!!

Bryan Habana

mrsladybug wrote: »

Just wondering what kind of ages people are sitting the gamsat and going on to do postgrad medicine? I'm 24 now...would be 25 starting the course if I got a place in 2009, seems old to me but just wondering if there are many other people out there in the same boat?!!

There's plenty more in the same boat and 24/25 isn't old at all. I'm in first year of the UL course and ages range from 20 (only 1 person that I know of) to early to mid 40's. Most people are in the 22/23-26 age bracket so you'll be grand. Best of luck with it.

wibble99

PhoenixIRE - many thanks for the detailed post.
You suggested that 4-6 months is a sensible length of time for preparation.

Is this based on doing the equivalent of 40 hours per week, and do you have any more guidance on the amount of preparation required ?

ghirl11

Hi just wondering if anyone would know, have recently completed a degree in sports science and want to know if that would cover the level of science needed to sit the gamsat exam?? will be doing extra study in prep for the exam of course but am just not sure exactly if ill have covered the topics needed or if ill need lots of extra study!
Any help with this appreciated!

Johnny Utah

I've been considering studying medicine through the graduate entry route for a long while now, and I'd love to do it, but there's just no way I could afford the course fees. If you don't mind me asking, how are the rest of you managing to fund the course?

ImDave

ghirl11 wrote: »

Hi just wondering if anyone would know, have recently completed a degree in sports science and want to know if that would cover the level of science needed to sit the gamsat exam?? will be doing extra study in prep for the exam of course but am just not sure exactly if ill have covered the topics needed or if ill need lots of extra study!
Any help with this appreciated!

Is that Sport Science in UL by any chance?

angua

ghirl11 wrote: »

Hi just wondering if anyone would know, have recently completed a degree in sports science and want to know if that would cover the level of science needed to sit the gamsat exam??

It's not about the level of degree, or the depth of your knowledge, it's about the broadness. You need a superficial understanding of almost the whole range of physics, chemistry, biology. The physics isn't bad though, probably about leaving cert level, it's the chemistry that is challenging :eek:.

wibble99 wrote: »

You suggested that 4-6 months is a sensible length of time for preparation.
Is this based on doing the equivalent of 40 hours per week, and do you have any more guidance on the amount of preparation required ?

I have a serious problem with this idea, because at the end of it all the GAMSAT is an aptitude test. I took it with zero preparation, a last minute decision at the encouragement of my mum and my best friend, and didn't have time with college and other commitments to do even a sample paper.
I say I didn't have time. I actually forgot until three days before the exam and then I stole sample papers off the poor best friend and even then forgot to look at them. I still got a nice high mark . The best friend in question did some prep work but not much, and got 69. Yet another friend of ours did about €5000 worth of preparatory classes, and worked his behind off for months before he took the exams, and he got 58.
Edit: should probably clarify that he's a damn sight more clever than I, he did significantly better than me consistently through school and college and it's just unfair that aptitude tests of this kind don't reflect that


You have to wonder what effect the schools and the cramming courses are having, and whether they are just squeezing money out of desperados who would do just as well with a few leaving cert style grinds and a bit of relaxing.

Of course if any of the schools out there want to offer me free grinds and a free GAMSAT to test this theory I'm available... :rolleyes: See the amazing freak, who improved her score by 30 marks! YESSSSSS!!!!!!! (imagine!)

The number one issue I would address in preparing is time. One of the two reasons, in my opinion, that my score went as high as it did is that I flew through the paper, I'm the only person who put answers down for every Q in section three that I've heard of. Half were guesses. There's no negative marking and you're better off answering ten questions maybe right than one definitely right in the same time.
The second reason is the fact that as I had nothing at all to lose, (I had two more chances to take the exam before I graduated) I approached the exam with a very laidback attitude :cool:. Don't panic before the exam cos it'll kill your chances in sections one and two! You have to have a nice calm mind to express yourself well in the short time available, and section one is partly about maintaining presence of mind and being able to see nuances in language in a stressful situation. .

God I love emoticons, I wish they'd let me use them in my finals. I'm sorry about their presence in this though it must be very annoying for everyone who's reading.

And hi Toots, it's me Squigglesworth. I know that's you xoxo :P

toots_old

onetrueone wrote: »

Has anyone considered the strong possibilty that there will be an oversupply Of Medical Graduates soon? :eek:

Does anyone know the details of any planning and provision for extra intern places to cope with the increased demand?

I think these points should be considered by anyone thinking of Graduate entry Medicine especially since;

a) Mary Harney is at the helm of the Heath service.

b) Health budgets are under huge pressure.

c) Call me cynical, but swathes of unemployed doctors would serve to be a convenient stick which the Govt/HSE could use to beat the Medical profession into submission.

I am considering Graduate entry Medicine (I'm a Pharmacist) but I am wary of getting myself into huge debt - only to find having completed the course to be unable to get an internship !

Opinions Please!

Pharmacist, eh? Bridging the gaps?

I'm not worried about unemployment here, I'll happily emigrate. HAPPILY.

Oh and Angua...weird. What gave it away?! God damn it.

onetrueone

toots wrote: »

Oh and Angua...weird. What gave it away?!

What is Angua?????

Gave what away????

angua

Lol no no it's just that we know each other in real life. Sorry

colmok

that's a great rundown of the exam and set-up thanks!

Im doing the exam in march myself and have a few questions still. For example, in the organic chemistry are you given molecular weights or do you have to know all the basic elements.

Any recommendations on how to practice for section 1? And indeed Section 2. I have notes for the science section from des o'neill, and did a science undergrad so i feel fairly confident of that part. The others concern me slightly.

Thanks in advance

Eerie

colmok wrote: »

For example, in the organic chemistry are you given molecular weights or do you have to know all the basic elements.

You won't need to know any of this sort of stuff - all of the questions can be worked out from the information given on the paper. It's an aptitude test - not a test of your scientific knowledge but whether you have the capacity to work something out if you have never seen it before from the clues given. I have a chemistry degree and on the GAMSAT paper I did, there were disconnection reactions - something we didn't cover until 4th year in my degree! They expect you to know the basics of organic chem only - nomenclature, structure, some basic organic reactions (oxidation, reduction, condensation reactions etc...) and if there is anything more complicated they will give you an example to work it out from. Don't kill yourself learning details as you won't need them, just understand the concept!
Hope this is of some help,
E

Eerie

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I've been considering studying medicine through the graduate entry route for a long while now, and I'd love to do it, but there's just no way I could afford the course fees. If you don't mind me asking, how are the rest of you managing to fund the course?

Most of the colleges that have GEP courses have a deal with one or more banks which offer a loan package to students to fund the course. I'm in RCSI and they have a package with AIB westmoreland street - details can be found here: http://www.rcsi.ie/index.jsp?1nID=93&2nID=99&pID=149&nID=1023
HTH
E

heywood100

Does anyone know if there are GAMSAT courses run in Ireland or the UK?

I have goolged but cant find anything particularly for Ireland.

Thanks folks,

John

Malbec

Yup.

Gradmed held here every Spring. It just finished before GAMSAT. They hold it in the UK during the summer.

heywood100

any used the Gradmed course here or in the UK and how would you rate it?

Hungry for info.

Actually just hungry now

vinylqueen

i didn't attend it so can't comment on the actual course but used a previous years notes to study for the gamsat... found them excellent in that everything was in one place and quite clearly explained for the non-sci graduate (that'd be me). that said, its potential usefulness would be highly dependent on your weak/strong points naturally. if essays are your strong point but you have no science background just do the science and maybe the SI course for the mock papers (harder then the actual gamsat but good practise) cause they give full explanations for why specific answers are 'right' and get you in the right frame of mind. if you're well-versed in science just use a-level/1st yr uni textbooks or online - www.revisegamsat.com is a great start. at the end of the day it's a lot of money and only you know what areas you need to work on.

spotsanddots

I was just wondering when people sit then exam .. I'm in 3rd yr science physiology. and was thinking of sitting the exam this year..but i don't know if I have the time of if i should wait until I am finished my degree???

Becky55

Hi all, i am a law graduate who is seriously considering a different route, a career in medicine has always been in the back of my mind, i am now after completing my law degree as well as my FE1 law entrance exams and with no job or apprecticeship i am having time to think about my future and i cant get medicine out of my head, i am am at the minute looking in to a postgrad in medicine, i dont no anyone who has done it and wud really appreciate any advice one has to offer. I did chemisrty and biology for the leaving cert and did very well in them, i liked science and wouldnt be at all put off by studying these again. anyway i am just seeking advice on how best to go about applying, from my reading it seems i have to sit the suitability tests, how difficult are these?? and wud people recommend the revision courses? also re fees, will i be able to apply for a grant? Il be 25 going in in september if i get the entrance exams. also if i were to graduate from it are gradmeds only looked at as second best to the undergrad medicine students??

teresminor

Becky55 wrote: »

it seems i have to sit the suitability tests, how difficult are these?? and wud people recommend the revision courses?

Impossible to say. Check out the Gamsat Ireland site and try the practise questions on it, only then will you have some idea of the level required and where you are in relation to that. It's doable but it's not a walk in the park for most people. You need a 2.1 in your first degree as a minimum prerequisite for all the Irish grad med courses. Not sure about revision courses, most people seem to manage it themselves if they're dedicated.

Becky55 wrote: »

also re fees, will i be able to apply for a grant?

No. UL do a scholarship scheme for a limited number of people but there are absolutely no grants as far as I'm aware. Most people take a whopper of a loan (100,000) from AIB to pay our fees and cross our fingers that we'll be able to pay it off. Eventually.

Becky55 wrote: »

also if i were to graduate from it are gradmeds only looked at as second best to the undergrad medicine students??

Hah. I sincerely hope not! No, that's rubbish. Obviously you'll have a certain proportion of people who fear newer courses but the reality is it's an incredibly intensive course so - speaking as a first year - we are forced to work way harder & faster than the undergraduate courses and are a much more eclectic bunch. I think generally the expectation is you've done one degree, learn how to study and grown up so now get on with it.

SmileyRK

Hoping that this still holds true for this years exam.

You've given me great insight into the timing of the exam etc...

thanks so much

mr50yeb9

Hi, I'm half way through a commerce degree and have realised that this is not the career for me. Recent events and realisations have left me wanting to start over and get myself into medicine. I have never fully challenged myself and I feel like this is the right move for me. I am 19 and my science background is bare minimum, I have only done Ag Science and Biology at leaving cert level (an A1 in both.) Am I absolutely crazy thinking that I should give the gamsat a go? I am willing to give it full time prep for the entire summer and sit it in September in the UK, but am I being unrealistic in thinking I can achieve the score I need to enter postgrad medicine after my degree with such little science knowledge? Any tips or help would be greatly appreciated!

Just Like Heaven

mr50yeb9 wrote: »

Hi, I'm half way through a commerce degree and have realised that this is not the career for me. Recent events and realisations have left me wanting to start over and get myself into medicine. I have never fully challenged myself and I feel like this is the right move for me. I am 19 and my science background is bare minimum, I have only done Ag Science and Biology at leaving cert level (an A1 in both.) Am I absolutely crazy thinking that I should give the gamsat a go? I am willing to give it full time prep for the entire summer and sit it in September in the UK, but am I being unrealistic in thinking I can achieve the score I need to enter postgrad medicine after my degree with such little science knowledge? Any tips or help would be greatly appreciated!

A1s in both? How many LC points did you get? It could be easier for you to do the undergrad route.

mr50yeb9

I only got 525 which isn't enough to go through the undergrad route, I wish I had have known this is what I wanted to do when I was in school so I could have worked that bit harder

Just Like Heaven

mr50yeb9 wrote: »

I only got 525 which isn't enough to go through the undergrad route, I wish I had have known this is what I wanted to do when I was in school so I could have worked that bit harder

Yes 525 is just a bit far out unfortunately. Have you taken into account the new bonus points for HL maths?

A lot of students study for the gamsat through college. And I hear some sit it for the sake of practising whilst still in college. Just make sure it doesn't interfere with getting your 2:1 though.

Is commerce a 3 or 4 year thing?

mr50yeb9

Yeah so the only route to go down is postgrad or to go back and repeat my leaving cert. Commerce is only 3 years and I'm half way through 2nd year at the moment, was considering taking the gamsat this coming september but do you think that gives me enough time to prepare? I should hopefully achieve at least a 2:1. Thanks for taking the time to reply!

Just Like Heaven

It most definitely is enough time, if you were to start organising yourself now, and started studying February first at a moderate level and doing just a small amount coming upto your Summer exams you'll find yourself in a great position come the start of Summer. I don't know if you work full time during the Summer, but if you're really set on grad med, taking the Summer off or working part-time would give you a great opportunity to get a lot of work done for September. Being so young and in college and used to studying is a great advantage over a large proportion of candidates. So yeah, you're in a great position.

LNazir

Hi Phoenix ,

Your post really helped me out, As I moved to Ireland 2 years ago and I hadn't done any of years like 4th year , 5th year and i sat my L.cert last year and I got 455 points and 118 points in HPAT and unfortunately didn't make it to undergraduate medicine so now I am proceeding my education while taking psychology and will apply again in graduate entry . I am really good at chemistry and biology and these are my most favourite subjects but unluckily I didn't apply in any courses below 500 in CAO so now I've to do a psychology . i would've been glad if I had got any science related course but now I am left with no choice so I am wondering like the book references that you have given they are 5 years old now as I am reading your post now so could you please help me giving references to more specific books for biology and chemistry .
Thanks ,