Thinking on changing the gun

Deer Hunter DL

We have a 6.5x55 Tika at the minute for red deer but thinking on changing to something thats a bit more flat shooting , any suggestions

Deer Hunter DL

we were thinking maybe a 25 06

jwshooter

Deer Hunter DL wrote: »

we were thinking maybe a 25 06

you be thinking in the right direction ,im a fan of the 25,06 .

medicman

hi there, sorry to be butting in here, but need a bit of advice, i am in the process of applying for a deer licence, just received 3 farmers permission and folio numbers for nearly 1000 acres of deer hunting and need to change my rifle, have a rem .223, what do you mean a "bit more flat shooting"? i was looking at a tika or sako and was told they are a good deer rifle, should i change and look at a 25 06?.
by the way, here it comes, the stupid question:eek:, what make is a 25 06?

thanks.

medicman.

Deer Hunter DL

what i mean is the 6.5 drops off to quickly and the 25-06 will drop very little compaired to the 6.5

medicman

ok, thanks for that, what grain bullet would you be using for the 25-06? i was told to use 100 - 130 grain if i got the 6.5x55, any suggestions?.

thanks

medicman

jwshooter

medicman wrote: »

ok, thanks for that, what grain bullet would you be using for the 25-06? i was told to use 100 - 130 grain if i got the 6.5x55, any suggestions?.

thanks

medicman

the 25,06 rem went into production in1969 its a necked down 30,06 . the .270 and 30,06 there the most used cals in the world today there is reports the 270 is out selling the 30,06 now .the 25,06 is a out standing round any one that has used it or seen it been used will agree it is most suited to irish hunting species deer or vermin accurate and hard hitting like its bigger brothers .off the shelf you can get federal 85 gr ballistic tip to 117 btsp, sst s . the 100 federal gr ballistic .3220 fps with zeroed at 200 yrds only drops 5.9 inch s at 300 yrds and 17.4 at 400 .compared to the 6.5x55 federal only do one bullet for this old cal a 140 .2650 fps soft point zero at 200 it drops to 9 inch s at 300 and 26.1 at 400 .if you go on to the norma or federal wed sites you can see for your self the different cals and why not to buy a 6.5

John Griffin

I had a friend out with me recently and he was using a 6.5x55. He shot two hinds and i watched the bullets strike perfectly, both shots perfectly in the chest. Both animals ran off as if never touched. Most people would have called it a miss. He wasn't sure himself but i saw the strikes, but there was no thud, i just saw the hair lift on the chest and the animal lift its front leg a couple of centimeters on impact on the entry side, there was no blood and there was only a little hair where it was hit as evidence. both animals ran out of sight, in excess of 100 meters and showed no signs of distress while running.

This rarely if ever happens with the .25-06. I will drop 9 out of 10 with the .25-06 on the spot with that kind of bullet placement and i would never have a sika hind make 100 meters with a perfect heart/lung shot.

The 6.5x55 is a low velocity caliber, it is not able to deliver the shock to the nervous system that the .25-06 and other high velocity calibers can. Sure a 6.5 will kill deer but not as efficently as other calibers and some 6.5 chest shots will drop an animal on the spot, but i will never own one.

medicman

hi guy's, thanks for that, seeing jwshoother and johns reply, i think it's the 25-06 that i will be looking at, which model would be the best and does anyone know who would take a trade in rem 700 vs sf 11 .223 1 1/2 year's old?.

thanks.

medicman.

It wasn't me!

It's a fine rifle, so you should get a good price on trade-in. Most dealers will be happy enough to take it, so ring around, find the rifle you want and then get the best price and best trade in value you can by further calls.

jwshooter

medicman wrote: »

hi guy's, thanks for that, seeing jwshoother and johns reply, i think it's the 25-06 that i will be looking at, which model would be the best and does anyone know who would take a trade in rem 700 vs sf 11 .223 1 1/2 year's old?.

thanks.

medicman.

tikka t3... i have not see one that will not shoot ,try john lambert in wexford .

Jonty

+1 for the T3 and the 25.06

ejg

Deer Hunter,
no magic in ballistics.
One simple way of comparing calibers is with this little federal program. It contains a wealth of information. just download it. One can compare drop between bullet weights and calibers, or make up drop charts.
http://www.federalpremium.com/resources/ballistics_application.aspx

No matter what caliber, the bullet will drop. No rifle will shoot flat to 300yds, but it's not too difficult to apply hold-over or adjust the scope.

edi

Jonty

ejg wrote: »

Deer Hunter,
no magic in ballistics.
One simple way of comparing calibers is with this little federal program. It contains a wealth of information. just download it. One can compare drop between bullet weights and calibers, or make up drop charts.
http://www.federalpremium.com/resources/ballistics_application.aspx

No matter what caliber, the bullet will drop. No rifle will shoot flat to 300yds, but it's not too difficult to apply hold-over or adjust the scope.

edi

the one thing you will note is that the Big Three (.270, .308, 30-06) are all pretty similar trajectory wise out to 300yds.

A friend of mine said the problem with the 6.5*55 is the fact that the bullets are extremely long for their width. He reckons it doesn't help expansion and energy transfer.

jwshooter

Jonty wrote: »

the one thing you will note is that the Big Three (.270, .308, 30-06) are all pretty similar trajectory wise out to 300yds.

A friend of mine said the problem with the 6.5*55 is the fact that the bullets are extremely long for their width. He reckons it doesn't help expansion and energy transfer.

the 6.5x55 has high bc its a very accurate round in quality rifles ,unless your loading them hot or using norma s 120 gr ballistic tip ,they just dont have the knock power .i have seen deer hit well and running silly distances hinds and calf ,if i had a lad out for a shot using this cal i mostly bring my own rifle .ok on the hill in Norway or moose in sweden ,but not for our type of hunting , witch is mostly forest edge or ride lines, maybe thats why all hunters on the continent have to have use of a trained tracking dog .and pass a test

Deer Hunter DL

how much would one be expected to pay for a 25-06 wooden stock , don`t like the look of the synthitc stock and s/s barrel , i`m stuck between the 270 and the 25-06 i`ve shot out of a 270 but never a 25-06

John Griffin

Deer Hunter DL wrote: »

how much would one be expected to pay for a 25-06 wooden stock , don`t like the look of the synthitc stock and s/s barrel , i`m stuck between the 270 and the 25-06 i`ve shot out of a 270 but never a 25-06

Personally i don't use wooden stocks, i had a bad experience with one getting wet and swelling, i'm not the best when it comes to cleaning so i always go stainless synthetic when possible. To me a gun is primarily a tool to do a job and looks don't bother me much. If you are shooting mostly Reds i'd say go for the .270.

ejg

I'm not a friend of the 6.5, american ammo is loaded quite low, velocity is often quoted with long barrels. 156g ammo hardly makes 2400fps, drops like a stone and is too slow to expand. 140g a bit better, 120g maybe best. Modern bullets are made for modern calibers which have higher speeds and expand at these speeds they are just to tough for the slow speeds of the swede. If the bullet doesn't expand it won't shed the energy in a smaller animal, or for example a classic low heart shot with only a rib at most going in.

My friend has a 6.5, every deer I've seen him shoot just ran away, mostly found dead after 50-100yds. But he has also reported a few "misses".
For our countryside I prefer a rifle that drops em so that they don't run on to neigbours land or a road apart from humane reasons.

The 25-06 is good, but the 270 will drop them better. You should be able to pick up a used 270.
Many walnut stocked rifles aren't free floating or only sometimes. A bit of freeing out of the barrel channel and a bedding job will make a very accurate good looking weather-proof rifle.


edi

jwshooter

ejg wrote: »

I'm not a friend of the 6.5, american ammo is loaded quite low, velocity is often quoted with long barrels. 156g ammo hardly makes 2400fps, drops like a stone and is too slow to expand. 140g a bit better, 120g maybe best. Modern bullets are made for modern calibers which have higher speeds and expand at these speeds they are just to tough for the slow speeds of the swede. If the bullet doesn't expand it won't shed the energy in a smaller animal, or for example a classic low heart shot with only a rib at most going in.

My friend has a 6.5, every deer I've seen him shoot just ran away, mostly found dead after 50-100yds. But he has also reported a few "misses".
For our countryside I prefer a rifle that drops em so that they don't run on to neigbours land or a road apart from humane reasons.

The 25-06 is good, but the 270 will drop them better. You should be able to pick up a used 270.
Many walnut stocked rifles aren't free floating or only sometimes. A bit of freeing out of the barrel channel and a bedding job will make a very accurate good looking weather-proof rifle.


edi

i shot a 270 among other cals for years and then went to a 25.06 tbh i cant see much difference in the kills with a well placed bullet . the 25,06 got shot out so i got it re barreled it to .270 as i have a 243 ,i must say the 110 gr v max in the 270 is savage , even shooting stags behind the shoulder the stag is flattened lungs heart is shreads .the 130gr federal ballistic tip in the 270 is a fine all round bullet . or the 100 federal ballistic tip in the 25,06 .like mr griffin says timber stocks are not the flavor of the month , but a timber stocked sako 75 is a lovely firearm .pity were rough bastxxds with them .
.

medicman

thanks for all the replys guys, its nice to know so many know what they are talking about, so it's now down to either a 25-06 or .270, have to see which suits me and how they both handle, hopefully i might get to shoot both before i commit.

thanks

medicman.

BryanL

what are the 25-06 ,.270 or .308 like on meat damage compared to the 6.5x55?
Bryan

jwshooter

BryanL wrote: »

what are the 25-06 ,.270 or .308 like on meat damage compared to the 6.5x55?
Bryan

cannot say i have never recovered a deer shot with a 6.5

medicman

jwshooter wrote: »

tikka t3... i have not see one that will not shoot ,try john lambert in wexford .

thanks jws, do you have a number for him or is he on the internet?

great stuff.

medicman:pac::pac::pac:

jwshooter

medicman wrote: »

thanks jws, do you have a number for him or is he on the internet?

great stuff.

medicman:pac::pac::pac:

only talking to him ,but he is on the list of dealers on boards

medicman

great stuff, just got it. thanks.

will be phoning loads of dealers tomorrow, phone will be melting by time i'm finished.


medicman

jwshooter

medicman wrote: »

great stuff, just got it. thanks.

will be phoning loads of dealers tomorrow, phone will be melting by time i'm finished.


medicman

phone john lambert first but you will not get him till lunch time ,he kills a lot of deer and is a sound lad

medicman

ok, phoned up a few (load's) dealers, overall support for the Tikka T3 in the .270 Light Stainless, everyone i spoke to did actually shoot deer, they each had a prefered model, however, all did agree on the T3.
So its off to do some (prob 2000) miles, ops km's over the next few days, let the dealers see my rifle to trade etc, thanks for the ideas and thoughts about the rifle :):D:pac:;):P.

Thanks.

medicman

Deer Hunter DL

if i were to go for a 270 is there any way of cutting down the harsh recoil apart from a recoil pad

medicman

is there much of a recoil?, noone told me that while i was talking to them, "nuts", ok, if there is much 2 much recoil, what else is there without to much recoil?


medicman

BryanL

some interesting stuff on this site


http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

medicman

thanks for that bryanl

cheers

fathersymes

A moderator will reduce the recoil to nearly nothing

Deer Hunter DL

fathersymes wrote: »

A moderator will reduce the recoil to nearly nothing

thats good to hear but will that reduce the power of the gun by much

jwshooter

Deer Hunter DL wrote: »

thats good to hear but will that reduce the power of the gun by much

no it will not take power from the bullet , the scale is not giving a good guide as the rifles are different weights in the long actions .if you shoot prone you will feel more recoil than shooting from a bench .went on the range always were plugs and muffs as the noise is the bigger cause of flinching than recoil , an wear a thick jacket or vest .iv shot 100s of deer with a 270 and some light guns among them and im a skinny **** ,recoil on game is never really noticed .

Deer Hunter DL

ok well i`m thinking on going for the 270 in Rem 700 with sound mod, must get on the phone tomorrow and price around

ejg

Just to confuse even more...
a 7-08 could be a good compromise, I think it's the ideal caliber for Ireland. Short action makes it smaller and a bit lighter. Very good performance with a shorter barrel, the 270 wants a longer barrel.
Very flat shooting with a 120gr and good for reds with 140 -150 gr.
Very accurate and good BC bullets.
Recoil should be between 6.5 and 270.

I'm thinking of one myself, but have no clue if a good selection of ammo is available here.

edi

John Griffin

Deer Hunter DL wrote: »

ok well i`m thinking on going for the 270 in Rem 700 with sound mod, must get on the phone tomorrow and price around

Have you considered that most Rem 700's will have a hinged floor plate. They are one hell of an annoying thing to load and unload. A detachable box magazine like that on the Sako 75 or 85 (the 85 magazine is a good improvement) is a joy to use compared to the floor plate. I use two mags with my Sako 75, very handy when culling 10rds between them. With the floor plate you are bound to drop bullets on the ground everytime you unload. Just something to bear in mind.

Be sure to get a moderator fitted and get it done by a very competent engineer or gun smith. It will massively improve accuracy and shooting comfort.

jwshooter

ejg wrote: »

Just to confuse even more...
a 7-08 could be a good compromise, I think it's the ideal caliber for Ireland. Short action makes it smaller and a bit lighter. Very good performance with a shorter barrel, the 270 wants a longer barrel.
Very flat shooting with a 120gr and good for reds with 140 -150 gr.
Very accurate and good BC bullets.
Recoil should be between 6.5 and 270.

I'm thinking of one myself, but have no clue if a good selection of ammo is available here.

edi

thats going to be your problem off the shelf ammo for 7.08 i think if i wanted a short action i would just go for a 308, my dealer has 6 different types of .270 ammo in stock ,thats the gud thing about it you will pick a box of ammo in any gun shop in the world ,the 25,06 was a odd ball cal till a few years ago .iv seen a gud few deer killed with a 6.5x284 over the last few years shooting a 140 gr ballistic tip ,tbh i cant see the fuss about it on deer anyway

medicman

fathersymes wrote: »

A moderator will reduce the recoil to nearly nothing

yep, will be applying for a moderator also, it should cut down recoil over 50%, how hard is it to get a permit for a moderator?


medicman

Da Frog

Deer Hunter DL wrote: »

ok well i`m thinking on going for the 270 in Rem 700 with sound mod, must get on the phone tomorrow and price around

I have the Tikka hunter in 270 WSM and i would recommand it. Very letal. Just avoid to shoot under 40-50 yards as the speed is such that the bullet won't be given a chance to work properly inside the target. I use the new Winchester XPS with it. the animals don't even move after impact. bullet keeps its energy for long distance shot. This is a caliber which is popular for montain stalking.
Tikka have a nice design too and you can choose amongst several option. stainless, synthetic .... and it is tyreless.

medicman

Da Frog wrote: »

I have the Tikka hunter in 270 WSM and i would recommand it. Very letal. Just avoid to shoot under 40-50 yards as the speed is such that the bullet won't be given a chance to work properly inside the target. I use the new Winchester XPS with it. the animals don't even move after impact. bullet keeps its energy for long distance shot. This is a caliber which is popular for montain stalking.
Tikka have a nice design too and you can choose amongst several option. stainless, synthetic .... and it is tyreless.

thanks for that DeFrog, will look into that model also,

by the way, whats the procedure for changing calibre from .223 to .270, do i have to apply for a new licence or will my fo just change my licence for the .223 i have and put the new model and serial number on it in hand writing with the station stamp?.

thanks

medicman.

jwshooter

medicman wrote: »

thanks for that DeFrog, will look into that model also,

by the way, whats the procedure for changing calibre from .223 to .270, do i have to apply for a new licence or will my fo just change my licence for the .223 i have and put the new model and serial number on it in hand writing with the station stamp?.

thanks

medicman.

it depends on your cop i got a.22 changed to a 243 and a .22 pistol to a 9 ... i would send it on and hope for the best

patrickdt10

ejg wrote: »

I'm not a friend of the 6.5, american ammo is loaded quite low, velocity is often quoted with long barrels. 156g ammo hardly makes 2400fps, drops like a stone and is too slow to expand. 140g a bit better, 120g maybe best. Modern bullets are made for modern calibers which have higher speeds and expand at these speeds they are just to tough for the slow speeds of the swede. If the bullet doesn't expand it won't shed the energy in a smaller animal, or for example a classic low heart shot with only a rib at most going in.

My friend has a 6.5, every deer I've seen him shoot just ran away, mostly found dead after 50-100yds. But he has also reported a few "misses".
For our countryside I prefer a rifle that drops em so that they don't run on to neigbours land or a road apart from humane reasons.

The 25-06 is good, but the 270 will drop them better. You should be able to pick up a used 270.
Many walnut stocked rifles aren't free floating or only sometimes. A bit of freeing out of the barrel channel and a bedding job will make a very accurate good looking weather-proof rifle.


edi

the heym rifles are free floated. walnut stock. absolute beauts. if ya could get a second hand one shed be nice!

Deer Hunter DL

another queston whats the difference in the .270 WSM and the .270

Sika_Stalker

Deer Hunter DL wrote: »

another queston whats the difference in the .270 WSM and the .270

wsm stands for winchester short magnum
they have the same bullet but the case is different
the .270 is the standard and is a necked down 30-06 while the wsm has a shorter fater case which allows for more powder and hence more speed and energy hitting the target

Deer Hunter DL

Sika_Stalker wrote: »

wsm stands for winchester short magnum
they have the same bullet but the case is different
the .270 is the standard and is a necked down 30-06 while the wsm has a shorter fater case which allows for more powder and hence more speed and energy hitting the target

so i should go for a .270WSM rather than the .270 ??

Sika_Stalker

Deer Hunter DL wrote: »

so i should go for a .270WSM rather than the .270 ??

personaly i wouldnt because ammo would be harder to get a hold of plus would cost more the .270. The standard would do the job perfect for you.

medicman

thanks for all the post's, i'm in the mind of the tikka t3 .270 light stainless, it looks great, i'm heading down thursday to test fire and see how it handles:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:, here's hoping i like it:rolleyes:.

i'll post again later on after the test firing.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

medicman.

Da Frog

Sika_Stalker wrote: »

personaly i wouldnt because ammo would be harder to get a hold of plus would cost more the .270. The standard would do the job perfect for you.

Agree that in ireland the 270 is perfect and the WSM is not much of a bonus.

clivej

Not to hi-jack this thread but what about a 308 as a flat shooting round?
Not that I would know!

ejg

The 308 wouldn't be the flatest shooting round, but just wollops deer. If you need to drop em quick it's a great round.

In practical terms if one would zero at 175yds the following would happen.

6.5 x55 140gr drops 10.6" @ 300yds with 1339 ftlbs @ 300
270 130gr drops 7.5" @ 300yds with 1696 ftlbs @ 300
270 150gr drops 8.8" @ 300yds with 1734 ftlbs @ 300
308 150gr drops 9.1" @ 300yds with 1641 ftlbs @ 300

No matter which one of these calibers, you need to hold-over at 300yds.

To get over this dilema my S&B scope has the little dial turrets.
I zero at 100m, put scope on 3 up in open terrain so that it is zero at 150m. If I need a long shot: for 200m I put it a 6 and 300m at 15 up.
I have a little table for in between ranges taped to the scope.
I can also adjust for wind. It's always better than guess- work.
actually very simple. Scope is sold but rifle is for sale.:)

edi