Austin Using Less Moves Discussion

ShawnRaven

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote: »

could that stupid rapper gimmick make him worse too?

It's not a case of him being worse. I call it the Hogan syndrome.
It's a case of not having to do a lot to have the crowd behind you. Rock also falls into this category too, he didn't have a load of moves in WWE, but had quite a few pre WWE as Flex Kavana. Hogan had several in Japan and in the AWA too.

But Vince will always go for major character over accomplished wrestler every time, he always did. And the guys involved won't complain either as it means less work for more money.

Smart when you think about it.

rovert

ShawnRaven is totally right. For example there is no incentive for Cena to (re)learn to punch anymore.

Im not saying Cena was an amazing worker early in his career but applied the stuff he learned more then than he does know.

D-FENS

ShawnRaven wrote: »

It's not a case of him being worse. I call it the Hogan syndrome.
It's a case of not having to do a lot to have the crowd behind you. Rock also falls into this category too, he didn't have a load of moves in WWE, but had quite a few pre WWE as Flex Kavana. Hogan had several in Japan and in the AWA too.

But Vince will always go for major character over accomplished wrestler every time, he always did. And the guys involved won't complain either as it means less work for more money.

Smart when you think about it.

I’d put Austin in this category too, he had a lot more in his arsenal than he needed or was told to use once he got huge. I remember his match with Benoit on Raw in 2000, when he reminded everyone of what he could do technically

rovert

D-FENS wrote: »

I’d put Austin in this category too, he had a lot more in his arsenal than he needed or was told to use once he got huge

I complete disagree it was his neck which made him limit himself. He also put on a lot of muscle late 1997/early 1998 to protect his neck.

ShawnRaven

rovert wrote: »

I complete disagree it was his neck which made him limit himself. He also put on a lot of muscle late 1997/early 1998 to protect his neck.

At the risk of sounding like a mutual admiration society here, but i gotta go with rovert on this. Austin would still have used what he had in his arsenal if he could have done. His neck injury f*cked him over good and proper, and being a big fan of his WCW work, especially his program with Steamboat in 1994. It was difficult to watch him in WWE.

He was the biggest guy in the company, but not for the reasons he could have been.

D-FENS

rovert wrote: »

I complete disagree it was his neck which made him limit himself. He also put on a lot of muscle late 1997/early 1998 to protect his neck.

Obviously, that injury limited what he did, it limited him to not being on tv at all for a year, but he wouldn’t have needed to use half of what he knew anyway. He could have come out and done one move (No prizes for guessing what that is) and the crowd would have gone home happy, this is the tactic Vince would have used with him regardless of what happened at Summerslam'97, same as with Hogan, Rock etc. and you know it.

ShawnRaven

D-FENS wrote: »

Obviously, that injury limited what he did, it limited him to not being on tv at all for a year, but he wouldn’t have needed to use half of what he knew anyway. He could have come out and done one move (No prizes for guessing what that is) and the crowd would have gone home happy, this is the tactic Vince would have used with him regardless of what happened at Summerslam'97, same as with Hogan, Rock etc. and you know it.

I'm not so sure Vince would have used it on Austin though, given the stellar matches he was having with Bret, Shawn and Owen in 1997. Bret Hart could have gotten over the same way too by your logic, but he didn't. I reckon Austin would have been next in line to be WWE's top technician in 1997 to contend (and eventually overtake) Bret before the injury took place.

rovert

D-FENS wrote: »

Obviously, that injury limited what he did, it limited him to not being on tv at all for a year, but he wouldn’t have needed to use half of what he knew anyway. He could have come out and done one move (No prizes for guessing what that is) and the crowd would have gone home happy, this is the tactic Vince would have used with him regardless of what happened at Summerslam'97, same as with Hogan, Rock etc. and you know it.

Are you replying to me or what here? Im very confused at all this.

D-FENS

ShawnRaven wrote: »

I'm not so sure Vince would have used it on Austin though, given the stellar matches he was having with Bret, Shawn and Owen in 1997. Bret Hart could have gotten over the same way too by your logic, but he didn't. I reckon Austin would have been next in line to be WWE's top technician in 1997 to contend (and eventually overtake) Bret before the injury took place.

Sorry, don’t see it like that at all. Austin might have done more if he could have, but not much more, if anyone’s gimmick didn’t need “technical ability”, it was his and gimmicks have been known to take priority in Vince’s eyes, especially one as over as his, guess we’ll never know, but I don’t think he wouldn’t have put more on the table for fans than was necessary, except maybe the odd PPV.
Not sure WWE were particularly looking for a technical replacement for Bret after he left anyway, they seemed more concerned with bad language, backstage antics, hardcore finishes and chopped off willies at that time.
I’d obviously have preferred if Austin had always been 100 % in the ring, but only to add to what he did at times, not replace it. And even if he had put on wrestling clinics every night, it would still be bed pans etc. that would ultimately make him at big as he was I think.
As for Bret, no way would I put him in that category and I’m not sure where you would have interpreted that from my posts, Bret was always known for his technically ability, ever since Monsoon christened him the excellence of execution, he was never much of a gimmick man, his gimmick was that he could wrestle, with no real frills. Not sure what he would have been left with if Vince told him to calm down on his actual wrestling…

D-FENS

rovert wrote: »

Are you replying to me or what here? Im very confused at all this.

Obviously i'm replying to you if i qoute your statement, and i can't make it any clearer.

D-FENS

rovert wrote: »

Well it is still not very clear. As I dont know what I wrote made you reply with among other things "and you know it." Did you read my statement correctly and in context? I dont think so.

Don't question my ability to understand things sir, it's you who says he doesn’t get it. I don't care if you don't , I’m not repeating myself, read my posts godammit!

ShawnRaven

ShawnRaven wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like a mutual admiration society here, but i gotta go with rovert on this. Austin would still have used what he had in his arsenal if he could have done. His neck injury f*cked him over good and proper, and being a big fan of his WCW work, especially his program with Steamboat in 1994. It was difficult to watch him in WWE.

He was the biggest guy in the company, but not for the reasons he could have been.

I am going to agree and disagree with you on this . Austin was limited with his kneck injury, but he was told to hold back on the moves. So to was the Rock. At the time of these 2, it was about gaining new viewers and keeping it as simple as they could. Wrestlers were told to use less moves . They also did the same with Hogan and Warrior.
With Austin it was Punch Punch Kick move Punch Punch kick move . It was all about building his character .

ShawnRaven

D-FENS wrote: »

Sorry, don’t see it like that at all. Austin might have done more if he could have, but not much more, if anyone’s gimmick didn’t need “technical ability”, it was his and gimmicks have been known to take priority in Vince’s eyes, especially one as over as his, guess we’ll never know, but I don’t think he wouldn’t have put more on the table for fans than was necessary, except maybe the odd PPV.

For Austin, Vince would have used the "if you've got it, flaunt it philosophy". I seriously believe that. He had to! WCW was handing him his ass in weekly ratings. So any advantage Vince could use on Bischoff, he would have done so. Especially come 97-98 when WCW had Bret, and still had the likes of Jericho, Benoit, Malenko, Guerrero etc.

Not sure WWE were particularly looking for a technical replacement for Bret after he left anyway, they seemed more concerned with bad language, backstage antics, hardcore finishes and chopped off willies at that time.

Not too sure about that either. WWE had a fairly strong Light Heavyweight division in an attempt to contend with WCW's cruiserweight division. So it was obvious that profanity wasn't all that Vince was focusing on. For reasons already stated above.

I’d obviously have preferred if Austin had always been 100 % in the ring, but only to add to what he did at times, not replace it. And even if he had put on wrestling clinics every night, it would still be bed pans etc. that would ultimately make him at big as he was I think.

That's my point! They were rolling with the Stone Cold character for over a year before his neck was broken, and still churned out clinics with those able to hang with him. That would have continued still. Go back to the Survivor Series 96 match with Bret for concrete proof. There was no f*cking way Vince was going to give that up, he's not that stupid.

As for Bret, no way would I put him in that category and I’m not sure where you would have interpreted that from my posts, Bret was always known for his technically ability, ever since Monsoon christened him the excellence of execution, he was never much of a gimmick man, his gimmick was that he could wrestle, with no real frills. Not sure what he would have been left with if Vince told him to calm down on his actual wrestling…

I didn't interpret it from your posts. That was my opinion. My point however that with him being their best ring technician, Austin would have stepped up to the plate to succeed him had Owen not botched the piledriver and screwed up his neck. Would Austin have needed to? Of course not! Would Austin have wanted to? I'm pretty sure he would have because you don't spend years practicing a craft to do nothing with it. Would Vince have allowed to.

I'm pretty sure he would, to compete with Bischoff by any means as well as make a f*ckload of cash. He did it anyway, but he'd still have milked Austin for everything he was worth, promo wise and ring ability. Because Vince is a businessman, and that's smart business.

ShawnRaven

Deleted User wrote: »

I am going to agree and disagree with you on this . Austin was limited with his kneck injury, but he was told to hold back on the moves. So to was the Rock. At the time of these 2, it was about gaining new viewers and keeping it as simple as they could. Wrestlers were told to use less moves . They also did the same with Hogan and Warrior.
With Austin it was Punch Punch Kick move Punch Punch kick move . It was all about building his character .

Austin was told to use less moves to protect himself, Rock was told to use less moves because he didnt require them. That's a world of difference there, my friend.
And even if Austin was told to hold back on his moves prior to his injury, you'd still have seen a lot more than punch kick punch kick wham stunner.

I also don't think it's fair throwing Warrior into this category along with Hogan. Hogan could actually wrestle. Warrior was just a body that the belt looked good on.

ShawnRaven

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Austin was told to use less moves to protect himself, Rock was told to use less moves because he didnt require them. That's a world of difference there, my friend.
And even if Austin was told to hold back on his moves prior to his injury, you'd still have seen a lot more than punch kick punch kick wham stunner.

I also don't think it's fair throwing Warrior into this category along with Hogan. Hogan could actually wrestle. Warrior was just a body that the belt looked good on.

No Austin was told to use less moves as they wanted to change his gimmick from the ring master .

Then one of his comebacks he fought Christ Benoit were he was told to use his full arsenal which he did and they started pushing him for a short term as a technical wrestler.

Top wrestlers it was all about "show" with the WWE so they would relate to kids better .

ShawnRaven

Deleted User wrote: »

No Austin was told to use less moves as they wanted to change his gimmick from the ring master .

At the risk of sounding like a rovert here (no offence), but can i get a source on that pleace? Because that's the first i've heard of that.

Then one of his comebacks he fought Christ Benoit were he was told to use his full arsenal which he did and they started pushing him for a short term as a technical wrestler.

If that's the match where he took a series of german suplexes, then it wasn't a comeback for either guy. Austin had been back for about six-seven months at the time of that match, while Benoit was about a month or two away from being out for over a year with neck surgery.

Top wrestlers it was all about "show" with the WWE so they would relate to kids better .

Not during the Attitude era especially when USA Network had just moved RAW in 97 to an earlier time slot, only to be forced to change it back after the Pillman gun storyline.

rovert

Deleted User wrote: »

No Austin was told to use less moves as they wanted to change his gimmick from the ring master .

Then one of his comebacks he fought Christ Benoit were he was told to use his full arsenal which he did and they started pushing him for a short term as a technical wrestler.

Source?

ShawnRaven wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like a rovert here (no offence), but can i get a source on that pleace? Because that's the first i've heard of that.

How often do I ask for this in fairness?

ShawnRaven

rovert wrote: »

Source?



How often do I ask for this in fairness?

I see what you did there.
But in seriousness, not as often anymore, but when you first started posting in PW, you said it a lot.

Unfortunately, sh*t sticks. There are people who still call me VR for christs sakes!

ShawnRaven

ShawnRaven wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like a rovert here (no offence), but can i get a source on that pleace? Because that's the first i've heard of that.

HAHA let me go through my meltzer archives...... dam i dont have time , or is it that i am not bothered because this is a message board :P
You go get your source first that stating the "only" reason why Austin didnt use more moves was because of his kneck.Remember i said "only"
Hell lets go all out on this one , if his kneck was really hurt go and get the x-ray of the kneck and an official statement from the doc claiming that he is unable to wrestle.
Otherwise we are just repeaters going by news that we get from guys on the "inside" repeating what they say and hoping to post it first as if to say we know whats going on .

Rant over

I feel better but have gone off topic . Sorry ....

rovert

ShawnRaven wrote: »

I see what you did there.
But in seriousness, not as often anymore, but when you first started posting in PW, you said it a lot.

How much would be a lot? What is so wrong about asking people for a source anyway?

Deleted User wrote: »

HAHA let me go through my meltzer archives...... dam i dont have time , or is it that i am not bothered because this is a message board :P.

Have you read the charter for this forum?

Deleted User wrote: »

You go get your source first that stating the "only" reason why Austin didnt use more moves was because of his kneck.Remember i said "only"
Hell lets go all out on this one , if his kneck was really hurt go and get the x-ray of the kneck and an official statement from the doc claiming that he is unable to wrestle.
Otherwise we are just repeaters going by news that we get from guys on the "inside" repeating what they say and hoping to post it first as if to say we know whats going on .

Yeah you are right his broken neck is heresay, he was lying in his book and he retired so not to expose a lie. :rolleyes:

ShawnRaven

rovert wrote: »

How much would be a lot? What is so wrong about asking people for a source anyway?

Let it go dude, it was meant as a joke.
And i'm all on for sources being requested. I do it myself on occasion.

ShawnRaven

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Let it go dude, it was meant as a joke.
And i'm all on for sources being requested. I do it myself on occasion.

Just dont have time to look it up at the moment , i dont keep track of my wrestling sourses like i used to :P

rovert

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Let it go dude, it was meant as a joke.
And i'm all on for sources being requested. I do it myself on occasion.

My name is bad enough on here without people trying demonize me even in jest and/or promulgate a view of me which on numerous occasions I disproven/asked people to prove for asking for something very reasonable and rarely draws derision on other forums on here. Yes it is Pro Wrestling but it still isn’t a reason to make up ****.

D-FENS

ShawnRaven wrote: »

For Austin, Vince would have used the "if you've got it, flaunt it philosophy". I seriously believe that. He had to! WCW was handing him his ass in weekly ratings. So any advantage Vince could use on Bischoff, he would have done so. Especially come 97-98 when WCW had Bret, and still had the likes of Jericho, Benoit, Malenko, Guerrero etc.



Not too sure about that either. WWE had a fairly strong Light Heavyweight division in an attempt to contend with WCW's cruiserweight division. So it was obvious that profanity wasn't all that Vince was focusing on. For reasons already stated above.



That's my point! They were rolling with the Stone Cold character for over a year before his neck was broken, and still churned out clinics with those able to hang with him. That would have continued still. Go back to the Survivor Series 96 match with Bret for concrete proof. There was no f*cking way Vince was going to give that up, he's not that stupid.



I didn't interpret it from your posts. That was my opinion. My point however that with him being their best ring technician, Austin would have stepped up to the plate to succeed him had Owen not botched the piledriver and screwed up his neck. Would Austin have needed to? Of course not! Would Austin have wanted to? I'm pretty sure he would have because you don't spend years practicing a craft to do nothing with it. Would Vince have allowed to.

I'm pretty sure he would, to compete with Bischoff by any means as well as make a f*ckload of cash. He did it anyway, but he'd still have milked Austin for everything he was worth, promo wise and ring ability. Because Vince is a businessman, and that's smart business.

Smart business is also to hold back on something when its not really needed (Something Vince has been known to do once or twice before), and I think that’s what his thinking would have been here, regardless of Austin being able to wrestle to the best of his abilities. And what Austin would have wanted wouldn’t have come into it much either, I wouldn’t have thought, a few real wrestling matches every now and then fair enough, but by and large I thin
Plus, sadly, people like Benoit, Jericho & co were not the reason people were really watching WCW, or Bret for that matter, seeing what Bischoff did next with the NWO and later on, Goldberg was. Neither involved much actually wrestling, and Vince’s way to compete with it wasn’t either, so “The Texas Technician” wouldn’t have been too much of a selling point in my view, not sure if they could have possibly got more out of the attitude era then they did really.

rovert

D-FENS wrote: »

Smart business is also to hold back on something when its not really needed (Something Vince has been known to do once or twice before), and I think that’s what his thinking would have been here, regardless of Austin being able to wrestle to the best of his abilities. And what Austin would have wanted wouldn’t have come into it much either, I wouldn’t have thought, a few real wrestling matches every now and then fair enough, but by and large I thin
Plus, sadly, people like Benoit, Jericho & co were not the reason people were really watching WCW, or Bret for that matter, seeing what Bischoff did next with the NWO and later on, Goldberg was. Neither involved much actually wrestling, and Vince’s way to compete with it wasn’t either, so “The Texas Technician” wouldn’t have been too much of a selling point in my view, not sure if they could have possibly got more out of the attitude era then they did really.

You are just making claims with little substance or factual basis. Your selective knowledge is interesting to me.

ShawnRaven

rovert wrote: »

My name is bad enough on here without people trying demonize me even in jest and/or promulgate a view of me which on numerous occasions I disproven/asked people to prove for asking for something very reasonable and rarely draws derision on other forums on here. Yes it is Pro Wrestling but it still isn’t a reason to make up ****.

Okaaay. Now would you like to take a deep breath and chill out? Valium? Shot of Jack Daniels? You got your rep here from your own doing. It is Pro Wrestling, and you know what that means. If you can't take a joke, then you're in the wrong forum.

After all, the US has treated Pro Wrestling as a joke for decades anyway!

rovert

rovert wrote: »

My name is bad enough on here without people trying demonize me even in jest and/or promulgate a view of me which on numerous occasions I disproven/asked people to prove for asking for something very reasonable and rarely draws derision on other forums on here. Yes it is Pro Wrestling but it still isn’t a reason to make up ****.

Seriously mate you just need to lighten up somewhat and stop taking things to heart . Its the only way you can enjoy yourself here .

ShawnRaven

D-FENS wrote: »

Smart business is also to hold back on something when its not really needed (Something Vince has been known to do once or twice before), and I think that’s what his thinking would have been here, regardless of Austin being able to wrestle to the best of his abilities. And what Austin would have wanted wouldn’t have come into it much either, I wouldn’t have thought, a few real wrestling matches every now and then fair enough, but by and large I thin

I think you're sorely mistaken there. Vince knew he had a goldmine in Austin by the time he broke his neck. He wasn't going to let him slip through the cracks back to WCW or ECW (likelyhood of the former happening is slim but you get my point), He'd have catered to Austins every whim even then.

Plus, sadly, people like Benoit, Jericho & co were not the reason people were really watching WCW, or Bret for that matter, seeing what Bischoff did next with the NWO and later on, Goldberg was. Neither involved much actually wrestling, and Vince’s way to compete with it wasn’t either, so “The Texas Technician” wouldn’t have been too much of a selling point in my view, not sure if they could have possibly got more out of the attitude era then they did really.

You're kidding me right? Not EVERYONE appreciated the NWO storyline, in fact it lost a lot of heat due to the pisstake of the Horsemen, not to mention the fact that it had gotten totally stale by the time the summer of 97 had come around. Goldberg i'll give you, but he was a minor part. A lot of the older WCW fanbase appreciated the cruiserweights and the technicians because thats what they saw before the NWO. Don't kid yourself otherwise because it was the loss of those guys which caused the major downfall of WCW to begin with. People tuned over to WWE once they moved.

It wasn't just Vince's business sense that killed WCW, it was also bad management on the part of WCW. They went hand in hand, for reasons i just stated.

rovert

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Okaaay. Now would you like to take a deep breath and chill out? Valium? Shot of Jack Daniels? You got your rep here from your own doing. It is Pro Wrestling, and you know what that means. If you can't take a joke, then you're in the wrong forum.

After all, the US has treated Pro Wrestling as a joke for decades anyway!

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously mate you just need to lighten up somewhat and stop taking things to heart . Its the only way you can enjoy yourself here .

It aint a joke, you two are often among the people will cite the same actions you are currently joking about from myself when a row breaks out or whatever. In either instance I refute those characterisations of me as untrue and unfair.

ShawnRaven

rovert wrote: »

It aint a joke, you two are often among the people will cite the same actions you are currently joking about from myself when a row breaks out or whatever. In either instance I refute those characterisations of me as untrue and unfair.

But they were true as when you started, all you did was say "proof please?" for a lot of your posts.

Now either you've lost your memory, or you're just ignoring the reasons why you got 2/3 of the forum on your back initially. That's not untrue, and it's certainly not unfair.

Stop trying to play the bullying card, rovert. Nobody's buying it for a second.

rovert

ShawnRaven wrote: »

But they were true as when you started, all you did was say "proof please?" for a lot of your posts.

Again I'll ask how much is a lot?

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Now either you've lost your memory, or you're just ignoring the reasons why you got 2/3 of the forum on your back initially. That's not untrue, and it's certainly not unfair.

And those would be.

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Stop trying to play the bullying card, rovert. Nobody's buying it for a second.

Im not playing the bullying card, Im just stating how it is. You saying I said "proof please" for a lot of my posts is unfair and untrue.

D-FENS

rovert wrote: »

You are just making claims with little substance or factual basis. Your selective knowledge is interesting to me.

Ah for f*ck's sake, at what point did i make any "claims" or state them as fact? They are my opinions!
YOU don't know if his injury was definitely the only reason he would have held back either, so where's the substance in your claims?

ShawnRaven

ShawnRaven wrote: »

I think you're sorely mistaken there. Vince knew he had a goldmine in Austin by the time he broke his neck. He wasn't going to let him slip through the cracks back to WCW or ECW (likelyhood of the former happening is slim but you get my point), He'd have catered to Austins every whim even then.

you see i do agree with you there but if the kneck injury had not have happened he would have been asked to limit his move set anyway .

ShawnRaven

rovert wrote: »

Again I'll ask how much is a lot?

Dude, if you think i'm gonna trawl through six months of posts, think again. But definitely more than anyone else ever did. I'm not saying you were wrong to, i'm just saying you took it to overkill level, which you did.

And those would be.

Like you need me to tell you, you'd most of them stating it in the feedback thread from a couple of months back, it's still there, you can have a browse through it if you like.

Im not playing the bullying card, Im just stating how it is. You saying I said "proof please" for a lot of my posts is unfair and untrue.

No, i said it was for a lot of your posts when you first started posting
Anyway, i'm done on this matter, i made a simple joke in jest and it was clearly wasted on you. I'm gonna keep stumb so that the thread can go back to normal. :rolleyes:

ShawnRaven

Deleted User wrote: »

you see i do agree with you there but if the kneck injury had not have happened he would have been asked to limit his move set anyway .

We're gonna have to agree to disagree until you can convince me otherwise. My main reason for saying that is because of the matches Austin was having in 96-97 without limited skills (vs Bret at Survivor Series 96, vs Shawn - KOTR 97 to name two) If Vince wanted to remove his skills before that when he dropped the ringmaster gimmick, hed have done it long before he broke his neck.

rovert

D-FENS wrote: »

Ah for f*ck's sake, at what point did i make any "claims" or state them as fact? They are my opinions!

Opinions you say:

Deleted User wrote: »

No Austin was told to use less moves as they wanted to change his gimmick from the ring master .

Then one of his comebacks he fought Christ Benoit were he was told to use his full arsenal which he did and they started pushing him for a short term as a technical wrestler.

Top wrestlers it was all about "show" with the WWE so they would relate to kids better .

YOU don't know if his injury was definitely the only reason he would have held back either, so where's the substance in your claims?[/QUOTE]

Where did I say in those words "his injury was definitely the only reason he would have held back"

Deleted User wrote: »

you see i do agree with you there but if the kneck injury had not have happened he would have been asked to limit his move set anyway .

You do know Austin was told in early 1996 he had a neck of a 60 year old by his doctor? He didnt hold back between from that time to Summerslam 1997 did he?

Dam i have to learn to quote i screwed that up.




Well i never said that the the kneck injury didnt cause him to change his style . I said that it was only one of the contributing factors.

Again how many doctors tell wrestlers that they "shouldnt be wrestling" "I dont know how you are still walking" Anyway i am not saying he didnt break his kneck but since people like yourself and Shaunraven are so upidy about "source and proof" I decided to join in and ask for proof from ShaunRaven

I will let you away this time


Actually whats peoples first wrestling event you ever went to ?

rovert

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Dude, if you think i'm gonna trawl through six months of posts, think again.

Then drop it.

ShawnRaven wrote: »

But definitely more than anyone else ever did. I'm not saying you were wrong to, i'm just saying you took it to overkill level, which you did.

I only ever done it a handful of times though and even then it was six months ago.

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Like you need me to tell you, you'd most of them stating it in the feedback thread from a couple of months back, it's still there, you can have a browse through it if you like.

Did you read my replies to them to? I do remember that thread being locked because you wished death on someone. But thats in the past.

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Anyway, i'm done on this matter, i made a simple joke in jest and it was clearly wasted on you. I'm gonna keep stumb so that the thread can go back to normal. :rolleyes:

I know it was a joke from you. But other people dont take it that way here. You are just continuing a myth which will be used as ammo against me as has been evidenced even up to this week:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57788742&postcount=103

D-FENS

ShawnRaven wrote: »

I think you're sorely mistaken there. Vince knew he had a goldmine in Austin by the time he broke his neck. He wasn't going to let him slip through the cracks back to WCW or ECW (likelyhood of the former happening is slim but you get my point), He'd have catered to Austins every whim even then.



You're kidding me right? Not EVERYONE appreciated the NWO storyline, in fact it lost a lot of heat due to the pisstake of the Horsemen, not to mention the fact that it had gotten totally stale by the time the summer of 97 had come around. Goldberg i'll give you, but he was a minor part. A lot of the older WCW fanbase appreciated the cruiserweights and the technicians because thats what they saw before the NWO. Don't kid yourself otherwise because it was the loss of those guys which caused the major downfall of WCW to begin with. People tuned over to WWE once they moved.

It wasn't just Vince's business sense that killed WCW, it was also bad management on the part of WCW. They went hand in hand, for reasons i just stated.

I think we're all aware of what went wrong with WCW, I just don't think Vince would have needed to get everything he could out of Austin every night to beat them in the ratings. And the fact that WCW were misusing the cruiserweights and the technicians only adds to that - why would Vince need to raise his game when he was already beating WCW with what Austin, Rock, DX etc. AND they were digging their own grave?

ShawnRaven

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually whats peoples first wrestling event you ever went to ?

OYYYYY!
Keep it on topic, start a new thread for that! :P

ShawnRaven

ShawnRaven wrote: »

OYYYYY!
Keep it on topic, start a new thread for that! :P

Its as much on thread as the other posts LOL . You probably cant remember yours :P

rovert

Deleted User wrote: »

Dam i have to learn to quote i screwed that up.




Well i never said that the the kneck injury didnt cause him to change his style . I said that it was only one of the contributing factors.

Again how many doctors tell wrestlers that they "shouldnt be wrestling" "I dont know how you are still walking" Anyway i am not saying he didnt break his kneck but since people like yourself and Shaunraven are so upidy about "source and proof" I decided to join in and ask for proof from ShaunRaven

I will let you away this time

Is there any point arguing with you when you drop so many points?

D-FENS wrote: »

I think we're all aware of what went wrong with WCW, I just don't think Vince would have needed to get everything he could out of Austin every night to beat them in the ratings. And the fact that WCW were misusing the cruiserweights and the technicians only adds to that - why would Vince need to raise his game when he was already beating WCW with what Austin, Rock, DX etc. AND they were digging their own grave?

What a whacky time line you have there going for you.

ShawnRaven

D-FENS wrote: »

I think we're all aware of what went wrong with WCW, I just don't think Vince would have needed to get everything he could out of Austin every night to beat them in the ratings. And the fact that WCW were misusing the cruiserweights and the technicians only adds to that - why would Vince need to raise his game when he was already beating WCW with what Austin, Rock, DX etc. AND they were digging their own grave?

WCW weren't misusing their cruiserweights though. Their stuff was the highlights of WCW PPV's from 92-98! All the way from Jushin Liger to Eddie Guerrero! They didn't push them past mid card level, but that's not misusing them. They were put there to attract attention, which it did. Just not to the level Bischoff had hoped for.

Vince wasn't beating WCW with Austin/Rock and DX for the first 3 years of the Monday Night Wars, it was only around 98 when WCW started dropping the ball.

You were watching wrestling during this period, right?

rovert

rovert wrote: »

Is there any point arguing with you when you drop so many points?.

Probably not .

rovert

ShawnRaven wrote: »

WCW weren't misusing their cruiserweights though. Their stuff was the highlights of WCW PPV's from 92-98! All the way from Jushin Liger to Eddie Guerrero! They didn't push them past mid card level, but that's not misusing them. They were put there to attract attention, which it did. Just not to the level Bischoff had hoped for.

Agreed

The Cruisers did great in the ratings until they were jobbed by **** out by the heavyweights and mistreated.

D-FENS

rovert wrote: »

Agreed

The Cruisers did great in the ratings until they were jobbed by **** out by the heavyweights and mistreated.

That's the "mis use" i was referring to.

And the time line i've been referring to here, in accordance with my original point on Austin, is 98 onwards.

ShawnRaven

D-FENS wrote: »

And the time line i've been referring to here, in accordance with my original point on Austin, is 98 onwards.

You've missed mine! Vince was capitalising in Austins ring work as well as his character before the neck injury. Had it not happened, he'd still have kept doing it unless it was a life or death situation.

DRakE

Deleted User wrote: »

kneck

no one notice this?

rovert

D-FENS wrote: »

That's the "mis use" i was referring to.

And the time line i've been referring to here, in accordance with my original point on Austin, is 98 onwards.

They werent misusing Crusierweights that time, they were featured in the uppercard during that period. WCW & WWF were extremely competitive though out 1998.

ShawnRaven

DRakE wrote: »

no one notice this?

no one cares!

D-FENS

ShawnRaven wrote: »

You've missed mine! Vince was capitalising in Austins ring work as well as his character before the neck injury. Had it not happened, he'd still have kept doing it unless it was a life or death situation.

I get your point, but he was'nt as big pre-neck injury, not as big as he was going to be anyway, going into '98 onwards.

And what was the abuse report for?