Catholic Christian Faith

djeddy

Why do people attack the catholic christian faith?

Goduznt Xzst

define "attack" in this context

dlofnep

djeddy wrote: »

Why do people attack the catholic christian faith?

Because it is an absurd and outdated concept, that asks a perfectly sane person to believe in insane ideas. I wouldn't say it's catholicism alone, but rather religion in general.

getz

people will always attack the christain faith this is good ,in my mind that as a christian what ever is said dose not bother us they can say anything ,as far as i am concerned i am sure in my belief--unlike some other religions [who i feel are not secure in there beliefs]get upset and some{ very few] feel they want to kill to prove a point

robindch

djeddy wrote: »

Why do people attack the catholic christian faith?

I don't recall many people -- atheists anyway -- "attacking" the core beliefs of christianity in general, or catholicism in particular -- the kind of beliefs that are listed in the Credo, for example. Yes, these have been ridiculed many times, but when you sit down and consider a lot of what christianity requires you to believe, a guffaw can seem as good a response as anything else. But attacking it? Nope, that would require us atheists to worry about it or believe it, and as a rule, atheists don't.

I think you may be mixing up your opponenets' opinions of your religion's core beliefs, with your opponents' opinions of fringe religious beliefs, like who should have sex with whom, whether contraception is a good idea and so on. These beliefs, and the idea that a quote from an old book or an elderly man is sufficient evidence for their truth, and the even worse idea that these ideas should not be questioned, certainly are worth querying and even attacking where they cause clear social problems.

Perhaps you'd find your question less of a puzzle if you phrased it as those doing the "attacking" see it, namely, "Why do the non-religious find so many religiously-based attitudes antisocial?"

kelly1

djeddy wrote: »

Why do people attack the catholic christian faith?

Because it dares to speak the truth and so people either deliberately or unknowingly propagate lies about it spurred on by Satan.

John 3:19 And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. 20 For every one that doth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved. 21 But he that doth truth, cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, because they are done in God.

dlofnep

kelly1 wrote: »

Because it dares to speak the truth and so people either deliberately or unknowingly propagate lies about it spurred on by Satan.

What truth?

BrianCalgary

djeddy wrote: »

Why do people attack the catholic christian faith?

I think there are two groups: those that were brought up RC and were hurt by it (this would also include those who had bad priests who couldn't answer the questions that people had), both lost respect for the institution.

Out of that group you see those that go to another denomination in order to seek a relationship with God and unfortunately the group who paint all Christian churches with that same brush. The latter I find to be the most hostile group and can get quite scary.

The second are those raised in another denomination and are taught how bad the RC's are with their worship of Mary and their statues which they kneel down and worship, thereby breaking the second commandment.

Exodus 20:4-5a
"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them;

Thomas_S_Hunterson

kelly1 wrote: »

Because it dares to speak the truth and so people either deliberately or unknowingly propagate lies about it spurred on by Satan.

Give me eternal hedonism and pleasures of the flesh over boredom in heaven any day.

dlofnep

BrianCalgary wrote: »

I think there are two groups: those that were brought up RC and were hurt by it

I wasn't hurt by it. I was brought up Roman Catholic. I like many of my peers just find the idea of religion to be silly.

BrianCalgary

robindch wrote: »

I don't recall many people -- atheists anyway -- "attacking" the core beliefs of christianity in general, or catholicism in particular -- the kind of beliefs that are listed in the Credo, for example.
?[/I]"

C'mon robin these boards atheists are always attacking the core beliefs of Christianity.

dlofnep:
Because it is an absurd and outdated concept, that asks a perfectly sane person to believe in insane ideas. I wouldn't say it's catholicism alone, but rather religion in general.

And that is just the beginning on this thread. I could go on and on. Even your good self has had the odd attack.

BrianCalgary

dlofnep wrote: »

I wasn't hurt by it. I was brought up Roman Catholic. I like many of my peers just find the idea of religion to be silly.

Maybe read the second reason given as well.

With such a question one can only generalise.

dlofnep

BrianCalgary wrote: »

And that is just the beginning on this thread. I could go on and on. Even your good self has had the odd attack.

I gave my opinion. I should surely hope I'm entitled to it.

dlofnep

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Maybe read the second reason given as well.

I did, it doesn't apply to me.

BrianCalgary wrote: »

With such a question one can only generalise.

True enough.

BrianCalgary

dlofnep wrote: »

I gave my opinion. I should surely hope I'm entitled to it.

You did and you are. It was still an attack.

dlofnep

It was an honest response to a question.

--amadeus--

Speaking personally I enjoy a good debate. In my eyes a good debate is one where both sides believe strongly in the right of thier ideas and have a full and frank exchange of those views. And at the end both sides are still "friends".

An attack on the other hand implies a desire to hurt or damage, to cause real harm and in no way maintain any form of civility.

To my mind attacks on this board are rare and - rightly - stamped on by the moderators. I believe an example of an attack would be to make sweeping insults either to religious figures or religious believers. Eg "Anyone who believes in God is a moron" is an attack and would not (and should not) be tolerated.

However someone responding to a post (for example) that says "you will burn in hell if you don't believe in god" with a reply along the lines of "well you don't belive in the Hindi gods, what makes you think you are safe?" isn't attacking religion. Nor are they attacking the poster. They are questioning the beliefs and any faith that is so insecure as to fall at the questions of strangers on the internet perhaps isn't much of a faith?

Millions of people around the globe find religion to be - frankly - a little silly. However it is a powerful force in society and we confront it daily in one form or another. This can be anything from news reports of Islamic fundamentalists to the fact that the only local schools are faith based to door knockers peddling one form of god or another. Many of us are a little fed up with this so we take teh debate to the religious. This can be through initiatives like teh "athiest bus" or just be debating in here. But I guarantee that if evangelicals stopped evalgelisicing (is that a word 0 and we had a 100% secular society with the religious keeping thier faith to themselves and fellow followers you would have a lot fewer "attacks" on your faith.

Live and let live, didn't someone say?

getz

you forget the basis of the christian faith is to go out and convert

CerebralCortex

I think people attack it because it is so influential and powerful but that idea of attack isn't always the intention it could be, to a person such as myself, a simple observation that can cause deep upset to religious people. Religious organisations like the RCC are powerful but unjustly so imho (they probably realise that themselves) and need to keep a tight grip to maintain power therefore you'll find some people are inclined to be whistle blowers in a reaction to that. They don't believe for whatever reason and they hate being reminded that they should and are sick of hearing bells clanging at 12 and 6 every day. My two cents.

see post #17

kelly1

BrianCalgary wrote: »

The second are those raised in another denomination and are taught how bad the RC's are with their worship of Mary and their statues which they kneel down and worship, thereby breaking the second commandment.

For God's sake Brian, I thought you knew better than this! This is exactly the type of bull that people propagate out of complete ignorance or malice.

How many times do I have to say this???? Why do people keep repeating the same old lies time and time again????

Catholic ***DO NOT*** worship Mary, the saints or statues. Can I be any more clear on this???

:mad::mad::mad:

Seaneh

dlofnep wrote: »

Because it is an absurd and outdated concept, that asks a perfectly sane person to believe in insane ideas. I wouldn't say it's catholicism alone, but rather religion in general.

I refer you to the Charter.

JustHalf wrote: »

6 Unreasonable antagonism to particular Christian churches (typically but not always Catholicism) will not be tolerated.
7 Do not post anything intended to inflame or insult. This is meant to be a place of debate where you can challenge ideas all you like but don't go outside boundaries of taste or decency and don't get personal.

CerebralCortex

kelly1 wrote: »

For God's sake Brian, I thought you knew better than this! This is exactly the type of bull that people propagate out of complete ignorance or malice.

How many times do I have to say this???? Why do people keep repeating the same old lies time and time again????

Catholic ***DO NOT*** worship Mary, the saints or statues. Can I be any more clear on this???

:mad::mad::mad:

This would be an example where someone makes an observation with no malice intended (from knowing Brian as poster) and a deeply religious person completely flipping the lid.

kelly1

CerebralCortex wrote: »

This would be an example where someone makes an observation with no malice intended (from knowing Brian as poster) and a deeply religious person completely flipping the lid.

The problem is that people are happy to swallow these lies and don't bother to look into whether it's true or not. I see this all the time and it's quite frustrating.

--amadeus--

kelly1 wrote: »

The problem is that people are happy to swallow these lies and don't bother to look into whether it's true or not. I see this all the time and it's quite frustrating.

In a nutshell you have just captured the athiets frustration

CerebralCortex

kelly1 wrote: »

The problem is that people are happy to swallow these lies and don't bother to look into whether it's true or not. I see this all the time and it's quite frustrating.

Well then perhaps you can understand why I get frustrated debating with you?

CerebralCortex

--amadeus-- wrote: »

In a nutshell you have just captured the athiets frustration

Your just ahead of me all day --amadeus-- :mad:

kelly1

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Well then perhaps you can understand why I get frustrated debating with you?

No, please explain.

--amadeus--

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Your just ahead of me all day --amadeus-- :mad:

Just ahead? A full 3 minutes isn't just ahead

BrianCalgary

kelly1 wrote: »

For God's sake Brian, I thought you knew better than this! This is exactly the type of bull that people propagate out of complete ignorance or malice.

How many times do I have to say this???? Why do people keep repeating the same old lies time and time again????

Catholic ***DO NOT*** worship Mary, the saints or statues. Can I be any more clear on this???

:mad::mad::mad:

C'mon Kelly, quite over the top here. I'm not giving theology I'm giving REASON why people attack the RC church. I attend a large evangelical church which has a few people who fit into two of the categories I mentioned. Those that have left the RC church for those basic reasons; also those who view RC theology as I stated.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

kelly1 wrote: »

No, please explain.

If you don't see it then your deceiving yourself.

CerebralCortex

kelly1 wrote: »

No, please explain.

You claim outrageous truths about the nature of the universe all the time with no evidence yet you accuse one of your fellow theists, no less, of swallowing lies. Hence the frustration of debating with you. Even now I get the impression that I'm going to get taken down the rabbit hole again. Hopefully I can check myself/bite my tongue in time.

Fanny Cradock

dlofnep wrote: »

Because it is an absurd and outdated concept, that asks a perfectly sane person to believe in insane ideas. I wouldn't say it's catholicism alone, but rather religion in general.

Read the charter. Next time you take a holiday.

kelly1

BrianCalgary wrote: »

C'mon Kelly, quite over the top here. I'm not giving theology I'm giving REASON why people attack the RC church. I attend a large evangelical church which has a few people who fit into two of the categories I mentioned. Those that have left the RC church for those basic reasons; also those who view RC theology as I stated.

Sorry Brian, it was a knee jerk reaction. I got the impression this was your opinion. I get sick and tired of these lies. There really is incredible ignorance about the Church.

You have to wonder though why people propagate these lies which result in people leaving the Catholic Church.

Would you keep silent with someone who claimed that Catholics worship Mary or make idols? Or would you put them straight?

CerebralCortex

kelly1 wrote: »

...There really is incredible ignorance about the Church....

Is that really the case though Kelly1? I can understand your faith in Christianity but why you revere one church over another is bizzare and its not just you its the whole Christian population on this rock Catholic or otherwise.

Ps a lot of people when they leave the RCC aren't leaving it specifically rather just religion in general.

oobydooby

BrianCalgary wrote: »

The second are those raised in another denomination and are taught how bad the RC's are with their worship of Mary and their statues which they kneel down and worship, thereby breaking the second commandment.

Catholics do not worship idols, which I suppose would be blasphemous. They worship God alone. They do venerate saints, relics etc. however but that's another debate. And IMHO a very interesting one (as in Protestant vs Catholic thread).

People have different reasons for attacking the Catholic church, and different meanings of an attack. The Catholic church is (and has been throughout recent Irish and European history) also a politically powerful entity. Despite officially being apolitical (I think) its members have abused its position in society in the name of Catholicism. This merits a distrust from fair minded folk which can manifest itself as an attack on the Church. Lack of credibility, an unpopular message and a privileged place in society are all good reasons for an attack.

Of course the Catholic church also has political enemies but that's another debate too.

dlofnep

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Read the charter. Next time you take a holiday.

I gave my opinion in response to a question. You're intolerant to any form of criticism of the Catholic church. The question asked WHY Christianity gets attacked. I explained WHY. It wasn't an attack, but an answer to the question.

Fanny Cradock

I am not in the mood to debate this. Read the charter. Next time you take a holiday.

dlofnep

Fair enough. I'll make sure to not give an honest opinion of Christianity the next time a question asks it.

Goduznt Xzst

djeddy wrote: »

Why do people attack the catholic christian faith?

because I am being controlled by Satan, and as my overlord he has given me the specific task of coming onto these forums and posing questions and challenging the assumptions of faithful Christians to try and break the weak away from the flock.

It's quite fun actually I get to have insights about the world that only Satan can give me, and I can turn my head around a full 360' if someone taps me on the shoulder. You should also see my badass crab walk.

Dades

BrianCalgary wrote: »

C'mon Kelly, quite over the top here. I'm not giving theology I'm giving REASON why people attack the RC church.

I've never heard the catholic church being attacked for people worshiping statues.

Maybe it's a sticky inter-denomination point (brought up by people who worship statues of man nailed to a tree), but I suspect it's nothing to do with the type of 'attack' meant in the OP.

IMO the RC is frequently attacked due to their past transgressions, their continuing policies (e.g. Africa), and in Ireland, it's attempt to maintain a grip on the population though indoctrination.

BrianCalgary

kelly1 wrote: »

Sorry Brian, it was a knee jerk reaction. I got the impression this was your opinion. I get sick and tired of these lies. There really is incredible ignorance about the Church.

You have to wonder though why people propagate these lies which result in people leaving the Catholic Church.

Would you keep silent with someone who claimed that Catholics worship Mary or make idols? Or would you put them straight?

Apology accepted. I figured it was a knee jerk reaction.

And to alleviate your anxiety I do address the attitudes in the Sunday School class I teach.

kelly1

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Is that really the case though Kelly1?

The claim that Catholics worship Mary or idols is only one example.

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I can understand your faith in Christianity but why you revere one church over another is bizzare...

It not bizarre at all. I'm very concerned with finding the truth about Christianity (or religion in general, I've been down a good few different roads). It's plainly obvious that different churches contradict each other. So the natural conclusion is that they're all wrong or one is right. More than one can't be true.

My basic premise is that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and having done my homework, I have come to the conclusion that the Church which Jesus founded is one and the same as the Catholic (universal) Church.

I believe God hasn't just given us a bible to determine the truth but has given us a living infallible Church, guided by the Holy Spirit "into all truth". Jesus didn't abandon us to our own devices so that we wouldn't get lost. I believe that when people try to interpret the bible for themselves, bypassing the God-given authority of the Church, the result is a falling into error. If the bible were unambiguous, we wouldn't have so many Christian denominations today. The danger of private interpretation is clear.

And people say the differences don't really matter as long as the core truths are believed. Well I believe Protestants have thrown away core truths such as the real presence of Jesus in the blessed Sacrament and the authority of the Church to forgive sins. The apostles had the power to forgive sins so why not their successors? Why bother giving this authority if it was going to die with them?

I've heard heaps of arguments as to why the CC can't be true and every one of them can be refuted to my satisfaction.

I think the problem basically stems from pride. People are too proud to submit to the authority of any man and so they bypass the clergy and make the bible their yard-stick. I believe this to be opposed to God's design.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. 9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Acts 20:28 Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

John 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Matthew 18:17. And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Ps a lot of people when they leave the RCC aren't leaving it specifically rather just religion in general.

I agree with you there.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

kelly1 wrote: »

I believe God hasn't just given us a bible to determine the truth but has given us a living infallible Church, guided by the Holy Spirit "into all truth".

So you're not fond of gays and the 99.9999% of men who masturbate then?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

BrianCalgary wrote: »

What a stupid question. :mad::mad:

I can't quote here, but as far as I remember it was the church who spoke out against these two things, with one pope even saying that having one hand-shandy was enough to get sent to hell or something along those lines.

djeddy

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

define "attack" in this context

Mocking the catholic faith makeing fun of its beleifs etc

BrianCalgary

Sean_K wrote: »

I can't quote here, but as far as I remember it was the church who spoke out against these two things, with one pope even saying that having one hand-shandy was enough to get sent to hell or something along those lines.

This is not the thread to ask it, you are off topic nor is it the right way to ask such a question.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

BrianCalgary wrote: »

This is not the thread to ask it, you are off topic nor is it the right way to ask such a question.

Very well then I'll rephrase.

I "attack" the church because of its discrimination against homosexuals, its discrimination against women and its old fashioned attitude to masturbation.

Are these legitimate reasons for attack?

djeddy

kelly1 wrote: »

Because it dares to speak the truth and so people either deliberately or unknowingly propagate lies about it spurred on by Satan.

Jesus christ told it like it was and his enemies tryed to silence him,

Today the church he founded are telling it like it is,

djeddy

djeddy wrote: »

Why do people attack the catholic christian faith?

Why do those who say they dont beleive in jesus christ,spend a lot of time in the christianity forum?

marco_polo

djeddy wrote: »

Why do those who say they dont beleive in jesus christ,spend a lot of time in the christianity forum?

Why start a thread on 'why do people attack the catholic christian faith' if you only want christian answers? Seems a bit pointless really.

Oh and why reply to your own posts?

weldersbench

Are we attacked because we are the largest, therefore easiest target? A bit like the usa.