Fiance doesnt think he wants children

LegacyUser

Ive been a long time poster but going unreg for this one as I know quite a few of you in "real life" and dont want anyone knowing what has happened.

Me and my fiance are due to get married August 2009. Last week he told me he doesnt know if he wants children. This has completely shocked me as he always said before that he did. It's not as if we havent talked about it before. Evertime we talked about it, he always said he wanted them.

I asked him why he never brought this up before as I always thought he did want children, he says that its only now that it's getting closer, he is realising that maybe he doesnt. Before it was always something he thought he would do in the future, but now that it's getting to a time when we would have to think about it, it's scaring him and he's realising that he doesnt think he wants any.

We're both 28 and I always thought i would have my first before 30 or at least to be in the process of making one.

Now i dont know what to do. We've talked about it but keep going around in circles, I want them, he doesnt and thats what it always ends up as. He doesnt want me to tell anyone in case he changes his mind so I feel I have no where to turn.

Sorry about the long post, just wanted to give background on the situation.

seamus

Well, he kind of needs to make his mind up. He's doesn't have the luxury any more of saying, "Maybe I'll change my mind someday". Tell him what your plan is for the next 5/10 years in regards to family, find out what his plan is, and then see if you can come to some sort of compromise.

What do you think you'll do if he ultimately decides he never wants children?

Dudess

Unregd wrote: »

We're both 28 and I always thought i would have my first before 30 or at least to be in the process of making one.

Well then what about leaving it until later? 'Til you're maybe 33/34?
Late 20s is still too young for fatherhood for a lot of guys.

SpookyDoll

He doesnt want me to tell anyone in case he changes his mind so I feel I have no where to turn.

Hmm, well thats mighty convenient for him!
What about you? He has landed this bombshell on you which for a lot of people would be somewhat of a dealbreaker and you are left with dealing with the repercussions on your own. Not very good for you!

So you have to basically accept it and shoulder the burden of this change of heart he's had all on your own, "in case" he decides to change his mind later?

I dont think he is playing fair, he's moved the goalposts on you.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting kids but there is something wrong with saying you do one minute, building a future plan based on that and then changing your mind and expecting your other half to just roll with that.....

I think you need to sit him down and say all this to him. It might not be a problem for him, but it is for you.....he has got to realise there are two of you in this not just him.

If you cant agree about it, then you need to think if this fella is right for you in the long term.

biko

There seems to be a lot of "maybes" in there. Just because he is getting cold feet now doesn't mean that he won't change his mind again.
Life takes us down roads we never would have imagined only 2 years ago.
I'd think it's just jitters and not much to worry about, it would be different if he always said he didn't want children.

Glowing

Yeah but when you're married, and the clock is ticking, and he STILL doesn't want them when you're 33, what then?

This is something you'll need to sort out before the wedding, it's too important to leave it to luck or chance.

Zulu

...but mid thirties is too late for some women!

OP he needs to make a decision really.

seamus

biko wrote: »

I'd think it's just jitters and not much to worry about, it would be different if he always said he didn't want children.

That's possible alright. It may also be possible that he's just avoided thinking about it. He's known the OP wants children, he loves her, so to avoid any unpleasant conversations or arguments he's always just said that he does want children.

As she says herself

he says that its only now that it's getting closer, he is realising that maybe he doesnt.

To me, he's clearly avoided thinking about it for the sake of a quiet life.

SpookyDoll

seamus wrote: »

That's possible alright. It may also be possible that he's just avoided thinking about it. He's known the OP wants children, he loves her, so to avoid any unpleasant conversations or arguments he's always just said that he does want children.

As she says herselfTo me, he's clearly avoided thinking about it for the sake of a quiet life.

Well, thats just not good enough, his desire for a "quiet life" doesn't justify misleading his other half on something as fundamental as this.

Out and out selfishness, he has no right to be lying by omission. He needs to $hit or get off the pot.

If he didn't want kids he should have been man enough to say instead of wasting the girls precious time.

seamus

SpookyDoll wrote: »

Well, thats just not good enough, his desire for a "quiet life" doesn't justify misleading his other half on something as fundamental as this.

Out and out selfishness, he has no right to be lying by omission. He needs to $hit or get off the pot.

If he didn't want kids he should have been man enough to say instead of wasting the girls precious time.

I doubt there was anything malicious in it. Overall, it's not quite as big an issue for men as it is for women until we're actually required to declare our feelings on it.
There are a number of things that we consign to the "cross that bridge when we come to it" bin, and for many of us the issue of children is one of those things.

He was probably always "unsure", but thought to himself, "Ah yeah sure what the hell, it's not going to happen for ages anyway". Then when the time comes to actually do it, he bottles it.

I remember back at the end of school, we were arranging to go on a holiday after 6th year. One guy who was mortally terrified of flying said he'd come along, he'd be grand, paid up and everything. Six months later, when it came time to pack and get in the car to go to the airport, he dropped out because he couldn't do it.

I imagine this is probably similar.

LegacyUser

seamus wrote: »

What do you think you'll do if he ultimately decides he never wants children?

This is all i have been thinking about for the last week. I just cannot see myself not having children. On the flip side, I cant see myself without him either. It seems that he can make this decision but I'm left with the turmoil.

Ive spoken to him and said that he does need to decide, but I am so afraid of him saying that he will want children and then changing his mind again once we are married. Since he has landed this on me I just cant trust what he says on the issue anymore.

LegacyUser

seamus wrote: »

I doubt there was anything malicious in it.

Seamus is right here I think. I think he genuinely believed he would want children but it was never a reality for him.

I dont want him painted in a bad light, so dont appreciate the tones of an above poster. He's not a selfish person, I love him to bits. In every other way he is the most gently caring and loving person I have ever met.

Thats what makes this so hard.

seamus

Unregistered wrote: »

Ive spoken to him and said that he does need to decide, but I am so afraid of him saying that he will want children and then changing his mind again once we are married. Since he has landed this on me I just cant trust what he says on the issue anymore.

If he's the kind of guy that you say he is, then I doubt he would do this. It's not something you can bluff your way through and hope that it works out in the end. The fact that he said it to you at all means that he's aware of this.

Glowing

Do any of his friends have kids yet?

Beruthiel

I tend to think in black and white terms.
So,
What is more important to you at the end of the day,
marrying this guy?
or
having children?

When you make that decision, tell him what it is you've decided.

LegacyUser

Glowing - yes about 4 of his friends have kids, he also has 2 nephews who he is extemely close to, which makes it even more surprising.

Beruthial - that's exactly my problem. It breaks my heart that I have to make this decision, but I know I do.

To be honest, I love him and cant imagine life without him. But I see my reason for being as having children. I couldnt stay with him if he decided for sure that he doesnt want children.

This is such a heart-breaking decision that I never thought I would have to make.

I want to thank you all for your help in clearing the "fuzziness" from my head and helping me see this more clearly. You've been more of a help than you can know.

SpookyDoll

I dont think it was malicious either, negligent though yes.
You cannot play with other peoples lives like that on the grounds that "er...um..I thought that maybe later...er um I might change my mind..." etc etc

Its too important an issue to OP to treat with such casualness.

Zulu

...well he did, and now he's not. So...


OP I think Beruthials post is a good one to follow.

Dave!

jeez, horrible situation to be in really. I couldn't imagine living my whole life without having the security and love and warmth and satisfaction that comes with kids. And I'm a bloke!

Have you talked about it in depth OP? Like what reasons does he give for not wanting them? Will it be too strenuous having to get up in the middle of the night, etc.? Understandable really...

Is it that he'll have less freedom/be tied to the kids' welfare for the next 18+ years?

Does he just not like kids?

Does he have any experience with kids? Any nieces or nephews?

Also if he does compromise and say "alright we'll have one" -- will that be enough for you? Personally I want quite a large family, similar to my own. I'm not sure one would be enough

Beruthiel

Unregistered wrote: »

Beruthial - that's exactly my problem. It breaks my heart that I have to make this decision, but I know I do.

I don't doubt for one second that it's breaking your heart, but at your age, you do not exactly have decades to make this decision, it has to be made now before you waste anymore time.

I love him and cant imagine life without him. But I see my reason for being as having children. I couldnt stay with him if he decided for sure that he doesnt want children.

You may love him, but if you see your reason for being as having children, then you will grow bitter and it will ruin your relationship with him anyway. As the years pass by in your childless marriage, you will resent him with each passing year. That is something that you must realise now.

Dave!

The other thing is, though, and I don't want to be depressing/negative -- if you do end it with him over this, there is then the small matter of finding another partner, and building up a relationship with them to the point that you would trust them enough to marry them and have children with them.

How long are you and him together? Would you be prepared to go back to being single again, and then developing another relationship from scratch?

The alternative is that you stay with him and don't have kids... but then you may find yourself resenting him for taking that dream off you.

(that is of course if he decides he defo doesn't want any)

Tough choices OP. All the best

Glowing

Unregistered wrote: »

Glowing - yes about 4 of his friends have kids, he also has 2 nephews who he is extemely close to, which makes it even more surprising.

Oh no ... I was kinda hoping he didn't. Usually seeing friends and family with new babies can make you want one yourself ...

Do you know why he doesn't want them? I think someone asked that already ....

paperclip2

Hi OP.

Can your fiance actually articulate his reasons right now for not wanting children? Or is he vague about details? My OH to-and-froed on this before we got married, we went to a counsellor to mediate the issue and it came back to an insecurity about measuring up as a dad. When he had an actual reason for feeling like this he was able to work on it. But it took that mediation process for him to be able to figure it out. Now we have a two and a half year old.

Thats what worked for us. It may not for you. I know how frustrating it is to not get a clear answer from the person you love most about something so precious to you. Best of luck OP I hope it works out for you.

kmick

Decide which is more important. Your relationship with him or having children.

If its children (with the right person of course) then why not tell him if he does not want children you dont want to get married to him. Seems to me like its going to come down to that. Most men under 30 dont like the 'idea' of children to be honest.

LegacyUser

paperclip2 wrote: »

Hi OP.

Can your fiance actually articulate his reasons right now for not wanting children? Or is he vague about details? My OH to-and-froed on this before we got married, we went to a counsellor to mediate the issue and it came back to an insecurity about measuring up as a dad. When he had an actual reason for feeling like this he was able to work on it. But it took that mediation process for him to be able to figure it out. Now we have a two and a half year old.

Thats what worked for us. It may not for you. I know how frustrating it is to not get a clear answer from the person you love most about something so precious to you. Best of luck OP I hope it works out for you.

Thanks, paperclip, I do thnk that counselling is the way to go for us, regardless of whether he "changes his mind", as i said before it would be niggling in the back of my head. I think a counsellor would help us both immensly with this.

He hasnt said why he doesnt want any, he just says he doesnt think he does. He's great with children, so perhaps its just that he can hand them back after, i dont know, but i think counselling would help both him and myself get over this issue. I would rather have this sorted out before marriage than 2 years down the line.

Stef1979

by sayig he doesnt think he does and that he might change his mind seems like a way of holding on to you as if he gave you a definate answer of no children you would immediately start thinking if this is how you want to spend the rest of your life...
I too think counselling is a good idea, counsellors are great at getting to the root of the problem...if he is interested in keeping you then he will go along with it..good luck

Bottle_of_Smoke

Great advice from Beruthial. You don't have time to hang around. Does he perhpas want to travel or something and he feels kids will stop this from being possible?

I wouldn't wait until you're any older than 31, give him a deadline, having kids is too important, you will seriously look back in regret in later life.

Bottle_of_Smoke

He hasnt said why he doesnt want any, he just says he doesnt think he does.

Seems odd. Have you thought about him maybe being unsure about the marriage/relationship?

LegacyUser

Thanks everyone I really appreciate your support with this, you have been very helpful in giving me solutions while keeping my tears at bay...

I will keep you posted on what happens from here, it's not the end of the road for us just yet

LegacyUser

Bottle of smoke, no we've both done the travelling thing separately but for a year each... hasnt been mentioned since so i believe that is well out of his system.

As for the marriage thing, I really dont think it is anything to do with that... he said so himself. It was he who proposed with absolutely no pressure from me. Actually he is very exicted about the wedding so im sure thats not it.

WindSock

Whats the point in marrying you if he is not planning on having children? ( apart from the ooh I love and be faithfull for the next 40-50 years bit...)
I met a guy before whos wife told him a few months after they married that she wanted no more kids. She already had 3 from other relationships and didn't want any more. The poor guy was 32 and had a house and everything. He felt a bit trapped as he obviously married to her to start their own family, now if he leaves her she gets half of his house and everything.
It is different from a womans point of view though...there is only a short window of time in which to have kids comfortably and there is no sense in wasting that time with someone who doesnt wish to share the same future.

At least he is telling you before you are both legally binded, but in saying that I personally don't see the point in bothering to tie the knot if there are going to be no children involved. If it were me, I would tell him I am not marrying him as it would be a waste of money, effort and a hassle to walk away from later.

SarahSassy

Beruthiel wrote: »

I tend to think in black and white terms.
So,
What is more important to you at the end of the day,
marrying this guy?
or
having children?

When you make that decision, tell him what it is you've decided.

But he is not the guy she originally chose to marry - he has changed his beliefs / wishes fundamentally... The relationship has gone topsy turvy and it is not as simple as that. If you cant trust your fiance to know something so fundamental then what can you trust.

marco_polo

I also think he may just be getting cold feet as the day gets closer, being about the same age myself I would like to have kids at some unspecified point in the future, but I would probably be a bit scared if it was imminent.

Should he change his mind again you will also have to satisfy yourself as to whether he really does want children and was just getting cold feet or is if he doesn't really and is just saying what you want to hear. Unless he genuinely wants them as too it is not likely to healthy for the relationship in the long term.

You have many tough decisions ahead of you in the near future, I hope it works out for both of you.

Zulu

SarahSassy wrote: »

But he is not the guy she originally chose to marry - he has changed his beliefs / wishes fundamentally... The relationship has gone topsy turvy and it is not as simple as that. If you cant trust your fiance to know something so fundamental then what can you trust.

Christ on a bike - people change there mind!

Do you hold people to comments they made 3 years ago? 7 years ago?? 15 years ago???
Do you not allow people to grow? and develop opinions?? If so you need to be prepared for the fact that they may change there minds. The fact that you choose to marry someone, means you are prepared to love them regarless of that.
For better; for worse.

That said the OP isn't married yet, so she has room to back out. Well, frankly she has room to back out regardless - people don't look at marriage the way the used to I suppose, but suggesting he's not the same person is a bit silly tbh. I'm sure the OP will back me up on that particular call.

The OP, as Beruthial has correctly suggested, needs to decide which is more important to her - kids or him. If she brings that to the table, it'll force him to make a decision.

SarahSassy

Zulu wrote: »

Christ on a bike - people change there mind!

Do you hold people to comments they made 3 years ago? 7 years ago?? 15 years ago???
Do you not allow people to grow? and develop opinions?? If so you need to be prepared for the fact that they may change there minds. The fact that you choose to marry someone, means you are prepared to love them regarless of that.
For better; for worse.

Its not like he decided that he suddenly doesnt like mushrooms... Having kids is a very important and fundamental decision for most people and she chose her fiance on the basis that they had agreed to start a family together. His change of mind has a HUGE impact on her and them as a couple...

von Neumann

OP, what would happen if you dicovered you where baren, and your other half said, Oh I'm off. keep in touch?

Would you be saying to yourself that's perfectly alright as I am only here to facilate his reproduction :eek:.

Do you really think you should be getting married?

Aurora Borealis

That would still leave them the option of looking at adoption, fostering etc.It does I think come down to, as Beruthiel said, which is more important to you, him being your partner in life or having kids. I know for me it would probably come down on the side of my partner in life but that may be perhaps because I don't have as strong an urge as many women I know to have kids. Mind you, for me, and something you should perhaps consider in your decision-making here too, the decision on whether I want kids or not would be very dependant on who I would be having them with. Can you see yourself having kids with anyone else?

Malari

Aurora Borealis wrote: »

That would still leave them the option of looking at adoption, fostering etc.It does I think come down to, as Beruthiel said, which is more important to you, him being your partner in life or having kids. I know for me it would probably come down on the side of my partner in life but that may be perhaps because I don't have as strong an urge as many women I know to have kids. Mind you, for me, and something you should perhaps consider in your decision-making here too, the decision on whether I want kids or not would be very dependant on who I would be having them with. Can you see yourself having kids with anyone else?

I've read a lot of the posts here, but this is the first post I can understand. Being someone who has never thought that much about having kids, I find it very hard to identify with someone who would leave their partner for the possibility of someone who doesn't exist yet (a baby). I guess the urge is very strong in some women. For me happiness with a partner comes first every time. You can have a child on your own, but will it fulfil you as much as your partner can now? It's taking a massive risk in my eyes.

SarahSassy

I think think this is only partly relating to the actual fact of having the child.... Im sure OP knows that wanting to have a kid is no guarantee of having one. There are plenty of couple I know who would love to have kids but cant for whatever reason...

OP, is also confused / concerned about him changing his mind on something so important... I agree with her on this. This is a biggie and possibly the biggest decision a couple can make together... For him to change his mind now that they are engaged its a huge deal for her and would be for me too..

metrovelvet

How well the two of you can negotiate this huge difference in your vision of the future will a strong indication of whether you belong together.

Two people need to look in the same direction, and not at each other, to find the future.

von Neumann

Aurora Borealis wrote: »

That would still leave them the option of looking at adoption, fostering etc.

What if he only wants his own kids.

So this is to be a wedding with pre-conditions.

They could draw up a contract with penilty clauses and all. :rolleyes:

The vows could go something like this,

In sickness and health (but only if we have chldern).
For richer or poorer (but only if we have chldern).
To love and to cherish (but only if we have chldern).

SarahSassy

von Neumann wrote: »

What if he only wants his own kids.

So this is to be a wedding with pre-conditions.

They could draw up a contract with penilty clauses and all. :rolleyes:

The vows could go something like this,

In sickness and health (but only if we have chldern).
For richer or poorer (but only if we have chldern).
To love and to cherish (but only if we have chldern).

But do you not think, given that they had already (pre engagement I assume) decided to have a family, that its a huge change of heart and has a huge impact on their joint future and relationship?

von Neumann

SarahSassy wrote: »

But do you not think, given that they had already (pre engagement I assume) decided to have a family, that its a huge change of heart and has a huge impact on their joint future and relationship?

Yes SarahSassy it is a huge change, what about a serious illness etc.

My real point is that, even if he said he wanted childern in the morning, that the OP should reconsider marraige.

Because it sounds as if having childern is more import than being with her partner.

Failing this, she should have a very honest discussion with him and be perpared that he may / should walk away.

shellyboo

von Neumann wrote: »

So this is to be a wedding with pre-conditions.

They could draw up a contract with penilty clauses and all. :rolleyes:

The vows could go something like this,

In sickness and health (but only if we have chldern).
For richer or poorer (but only if we have chldern).
To love and to cherish (but only if we have chldern).

Um, of course it has 'preconditions'... that's what wedding vows ARE. There's even a bit in the vows about 'accepeting and cherishing what children god send us' or something to that effect.

She's not asking for a pre-nuptial agreement here, all she wants to know is if she's agreeing to spend her life with someone who wants the same things as her. I think that's the sensible and responsible thing to do.

Would you rather they just got married anyway, put the decision off until a later date, only to realise in a few years' time that this issue was a dealbreaker for both of them? Then what? A messy divorce? This is not some trivial issue that can be overlooked, any pre-marriage counsellor would tell you that.

SarahSassy

von Neumann wrote: »

Yes SarahSassy it is a huge change, what about a serious illness etc.

My real point is that, even if he said he wanted childern in the morning, that the OP should reconsider marraige.

Because it sounds as if having childern is more import than being with her partner.

Failing this, she should have a very honest discussion with him and be perpared that he may / should walk away.

This is different. Nobody chooses to be inflicted with serious illness and they had made a decision to have kids...

They do have a lot to talk about.. Any update OP?

von Neumann

shellyboo wrote: »

Um, of course it has 'preconditions'... that's what wedding vows ARE. There's even a bit in the vows about 'accepeting and cherishing what children god send us' or something to that effect.

She's not asking for a pre-nuptial agreement here, all she wants to know is if she's agreeing to spend her life with someone who wants the same things as her. I think that's the sensible and responsible thing to do.

Would you rather they just got married anyway, put the decision off until a later date, only to realise in a few years' time that this issue was a dealbreaker for both of them? Then what? A messy divorce? This is not some trivial issue that can be overlooked, any pre-marriage counsellor would tell you that.

May be I being overly idealistic, but my point is that she should not get married to this person, full stop.

He may be thinking that she loves him, when in fact, she loves the idea of kids.

Are people getting married because
they want to spend the rest of their lives together?
or
is it to have childern?

I don't see the second option as positive in any way.

Please don't answer both, because in this case both is not possible

Dave!

How about "because they want to have a family with their fiancee"

Iago

WindSock wrote: »

At least he is telling you before you are both legally binded, but in saying that I personally don't see the point in bothering to tie the knot if there are going to be no children involved. If it were me, I would tell him I am not marrying him as it would be a waste of money, effort and a hassle to walk away from later.

I think that's a little naive to be honest, although if you're not marrying because you're already thinking of the hassle involved if you wanted to walk away then you probably wouldn't be getting married for the right reason.

I think every couple needs to be very clear on a few things before they get married, and having an aligned view on children is one of them. What I would say is that people are unlikely to change much on this subject once they get past their early/mid twenties. At that stage you've had a chance to experience life, and you know what you would like your future to look like, and the reasons behind it.

If he's saying that he doesn't want or doesn't think he wants children at this point then as beruthial pointed out you have to decide which you want more. Being married to him, or having children. It's a horrible choice, but still a choice.

von Neumann

Dave! wrote: »

How about "because they want to have a family with their fiancee"

Had to change this,

That for me at least is not a good enough reason to get married.

SarahSassy

In all reality she may not have gotten engaged to him if she had this information up front....

von Neumann

It would be like some one saying a want to marry you,
Because I want a house, and it easier if there's somebody to split the mortatage with .
May be people think like this :eek:.

I don't envy you OP it a tough position but you'll know the right anwser when you find it.

P.s. Sorry if I'm begining to rant ,