Rules proposed to be changed for new fully licensed drivers

Tech3

I just came across an article in the irish times today about a td complaining about some new law against newly passed full licensed drivers. Didnt really go into detail but said it needed to be looked at fast. Tried locating it online but no luck.

NRA stated that its not whether your on your full or provisional its the experience they reckon is causing accidents and they propose to the minister a new rule for unexperienced full licensed drivers like limiting them to the size of vehicle they can drive. Anyone know much more about this?

Senna

I did hear talk of a R-plate similar to the UK for newly qualifiedly drivers, i'm guessing it would some limits on them.
The plan of limiting them to small cc cars has been talked about for ages but cant see it ever happening.

Traumadoc

Where statistics ever provided that show that people on provisional licenses were more likely to be involved in RTAs?

Berty

One thing that I could say is that usually I sit outside the license testing centre which doubles nicely as the Maldron hotel in Limerick. Im there using the WIFI from the car park.

You would be amazed how bad the drivers are that are actually being given pass certificates. I dont see them driving out on the roads but its the ones who cannot get in or out of a space, stall the car constantly, ones without L-plates, one with defective lighting and the number of them who hit the kerbs. They still pass.

Maybe the TD has a point. There are soo many in the backlog that "possibly" they are just being given the scope to move them along as fast as possible not unlike the late 70's when people were "sold" driving licenses to clear the backlog.

JoeySully

Traumadoc wrote: »

Where statistics ever provided that show that people on provisional licenses were more likely to be involved in RTAs?

there RTC's as in Road Traffic collision's. Accident implies there is no one is at fault :D

craichoe

quirke_folder wrote: »

One thing that I could say is that usually I sit outside the license testing centre which doubles nicely as the Maldron hotel in Limerick. Im there using the WIFI from the car park.

You would be amazed how bad the drivers are that are actually being given pass certificates. I dont see them driving out on the roads but its the ones who cannot get in or out of a space, stall the car constantly, ones without L-plates, one with defective lighting and the number of them who hit the kerbs. They still pass.

Maybe the TD has a point. There are soo many in the backlog that "possibly" they are just being given the scope to move them along as fast as possible not unlike the late 70's when people were "sold" driving licenses to clear the backlog.

How do you know they passed.

javaboy

Traumadoc wrote: »

Where statistics ever provided that show that people on provisional licenses were more likely to be involved in RTAs?

I think that's the point of these measures though. That it's not what licence you hold but the experience you have.

javaboy

quirke_folder wrote: »

One thing that I could say is that usually I sit outside the license testing centre which doubles nicely as the Maldron hotel in Limerick. Im there using the WIFI from the car park.

You would be amazed how bad the drivers are that are actually being given pass certificates. I dont see them driving out on the roads but its the ones who cannot get in or out of a space, stall the car constantly, ones without L-plates, one with defective lighting and the number of them who hit the kerbs. They still pass.

Not being able to get in or out of a space is first of all not part of the test and can be put down to nerves during the test as can stalling the car.

I don't believe you that people with no L-plates, defective lights and people hitting the kerb are passing the test. I'm sure there are the odd exceptions of course.

So how do you know they are passing the test and how long do you follow them on their test for? :rolleyes:

andrewh5

Senna wrote: »

I did hear talk of a R-plate similar to the UK for newly qualifiedly drivers, i'm guessing it would some limits on them.
The plan of limiting them to small cc cars has been talked about for ages but cant see it ever happening.

The UK as a whole do not have an R plate. They are only used in the north. They have to be displayed for 1 year and there is a maximum speed limit imposed on the driver of IIRC 45MPH.

Wishbone Ash

quirke_folder wrote: »

the ones who cannot get in or out of a space, stall the car constantly, ones without L-plates, one with defective lighting and the number of them who hit the kerbs. They still pass.

If they have no L plates and defective lighting, the test would be abandoned! What makes you think that they have passed?

quirke_folder wrote:

There are soo many in the backlog

What backlog? The waiting time is down to a few weeks!

quirke_folder wrote:

not unlike the late 70's when people were "sold" driving licenses to clear the backlog.

Only those who had a 2nd Provisional Licence in category C (now category and who had already applied for a test on or before a date six months before the announcement of the amnesty were furnished with a full Driving Licence.

Berty

craichoe wrote: »

How do you know they passed.

Im sitting outside the test centre right now in my usual space. They all park next to me so I see them arrive and leave. I see them when they go in and I see them when they come out.

Without noticing the jumping up and down and joyfully talking down the phone to loved ones how else would I notice, you may ask. Well the quiet ones are also easy to see. You either get a fail sheet or you get a printed sheet for you to present to the Licensing office which also comes with a pink slip.

L1011

I didn't jump up and down joyfully when leaving the test centre despite passing...

Berty

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If they have no L plates and defective lighting, the test would be abandoned! What makes you think that they have passed?

What backlog? The waiting time is down to a few weeks!

Only those who had a 2nd Provisional Licence in category C (now category and who had already applied for a test on or before a date six months before the announcement of the amnesty were furnished with a full Driving Licence.

RE- L-plates and defective lighting. I can tell you that it does happen because its right here in front of me. A girl just drove past me on her test with somebody sitting in the back seat. It must be an examiner because I dont think you can drive with a friend. Anyway whoever that person is they are not wearing their seatbelt. This stuff is happening!!!

Re: Backlog. If you say that its only down to a few weeks. Thats all good and well but think about what i was saying. How do you think it might have gotten down to a few weeks. Im suggesting they are going too easy on them and passing them too quickly.

Re: What license they have. Well, of course I do not know what kinds of licences they have other than that they are provisional.

Another girl just went past on her way out of the car park. Only half of her eye level LED brakelight is working. Is that acceptable? Who knows?

A girl just came out the front door. I know she failed. I cannot see what she was handed because its not in her hands(handbag maybe). How do I know she failed? She is crying and her male friend is comforting her. I saw her arrive back a few minutes ago with a stony faced instructor.

javaboy

quirke_folder wrote: »

RE- L-plates and defective lighting. I can tell you that it does happen because its right here in front of me. A girl just drove past me on her test with somebody sitting in the back seat. It must be an examiner because I dont think you can drive with a friend. Anyway whoever that person is they are not wearing their seatbelt. This stuff is happening!!!

Driving testers are routinely accompanied by supervisors to ensure the test is fair. This stuff is supposed to happen!!!

And a tester isn't required to wear a seatbelt.

Re: Backlog. If you say that its only down to a few weeks. Thats all good and well but think about what i was saying. How do you think it might have gotten down to a few weeks. Im suggesting they are going too easy on them and passing them too quickly.

They hired a private company which was more efficient at processing tests. The pass rate with SGS is only marginally higher than with RSA.

Re: What license they have. Well, of course I do not know what kinds of licences they have other than that they are provisional.

He's just explaining that the licence amnesty wasn't the free for all some people exaggerate it to be.

Alanstrainor

Just to agree with wishboneash, the waiting times are down to weeks, quite an achievment considering how bad they were a couple of years ago.

Biro

No harm in restricting it somehow. But it should be by bhp not cc.
On another motoring forum I visit on occasion there was a girl who got herself an Impreza Turbo, apparently tuned to 440bhp. This girl claimed numerous times how good a driver she felt she was, yet only had her lisence 8 months. The boyfriend who also was supposed to be a fab driver and is driving 6 or 7 years is still on a provisional.

javaboy

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Just to agree with wishboneash, the waiting times are down to weeks, quite an achievment considering how bad they were a couple of years ago.

I know a couple of people who have applied in the last two months and are complaining about not getting a test date yet. It's a good sign of how things have progressed that people start to complain that early. I know I didn't start moaning about not getting a test date until about 9 months after applying!

Sean Quagmire

ridiculous, if you pass the test you should be able to drive what you want. if there is evidence of you being a clown behind the wheel then put restrictions on what they can drive or something to that effect.

I know of a provisional driver who drives an OPC astra and has no intention of even applying for the full test. the responce i got when i asked how the hell are you getting away with it was, they wouldnt think a learner would have the balls to drive around in that car so they never got asked to porduce a licence!

Berty

As I sit outside this test centre I can only comment on what occurs here. What I see here is that people with defective car lighting and no L-plates are being tested and are passing. People hitting the kerbs leaving the car park are also passing.

Wishbone Ash

quirke_folder wrote: »

Another girl just went past on her way out of the car park. Only half of her eye level LED brakelight is working. Is that acceptable? Who knows?

Yes it is. A centre brake light is not a statutory requirement and therefore a person cannot be penalised if it is not working. It's the same for fog lights, reverse lights, auxillary lights etc.

I noticed you dodged the L plate issue! Now, as I have said, L plates must be displayed or the test is abandoned.

javaboy

Biro wrote: »

No harm in restricting it somehow. But it should be by bhp not cc.

If we start going down that road, you'll eventually have someone saying torque at the wheel, lb. feet per kg, Nm per axle and all sorts of rubbish.

They'd be better off sorting out driver education and the testing system instead of making minor changes and improvements to a seriously flawed system.

Biro

Sean Quagmire wrote: »

ridiculous, if you pass the test you should be able to drive what you want. if there is evidence of you being a clown behind the wheel then put restrictions on what they can drive or something to that effect.

I know of a provisional driver who drives an OPC astra and has no intention of even applying for the full test. the responce i got when i asked how the hell are you getting away with it was, they wouldnt think a learner would have the balls to drive around in that car so they never got asked to porduce a licence!

That guy is a tool. Why can't he just sit the test? Is he afraid of failing like the failure he probably is? Also is it insured properly?

Berty

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I noticed you dodged the L plate issue! Now, as I have said, L plates must be displayed or the test is abandoned.

I did not dodge it. I just figured I had mentioned it enough at this stage.

In reply to that: Not apparently in the Maldron Hotel Test Centre in Limerick City on Monday morning 9:20am. Red VW Polo reg.

Biro

javaboy wrote: »

If we start going down that road, you'll eventually have someone saying torque at the wheel, lb. feet per kg, Nm per axle and all sorts of rubbish.

They'd be better off sorting out driver education and the testing system instead of making minor changes and improvements to a seriously flawed system.

They would, but that'll take 100 years to take full effect when todays bunch of muppets have kicked the bucket!

javaboy

quirke_folder wrote: »

I did not dodge it. I just figured I had mentioned it enough at this stage.

In reply to that: Not apparently in the Maldron Hotel Test Centre in Limerick City on Monday morning 9:20am. Red VW Polo reg.

Since you steal their WiFi on a regular basis and these things are happening so often, can you get a video of some of it in action?

Berty

javaboy wrote: »

Since you steal their WiFi on a regular basis and these things are happening so often, can you get a video of some of it in action?

You cannot steal something which is free. Wirless Free Internet(WIFI)

I will try to get a photo on my Digital camera or a movie on it. The zoom is not good but worth a try.

javaboy

quirke_folder wrote: »

You cannot steal something which is free. Wirless Free Internet(WIFI)

It might be free WiFi all right but WiFi doesn't stand for Wireless Free Internet.

I will try to get a photo on my Digital camera or a movie on it. The zoom is not good but worth a try.

A video would be best. Make sure it shows a tester getting into a car with no L-plates.

Wishbone Ash

I just find it extremely difficult to believe that someone could pass a driving test without L plates displayed. It's one of the most basic requirements and the first thing the examiner checks when brought out to the vehicle.

javaboy

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I just find it extremely difficult to believe that someone could pass a driving test without L plates displayed. It's one of the most basic requirements and the first thing the examiner checks when brought out to the vehicle.

Me too. It will be interesting to see if he manages to get proof on video.

t-ha

What do people think of the original question though - License v's Experience? Will it be based purely on the length of time you've held your license?

Personally I think the idea of basing a drivers ability on the length of time they've held their license is a load of crap. Whether you drive around badly for 1 year or 10 years you're still a bad driver, and the same goes for a good driver.

I got my full motorbike license a couple of years ago and had the usual initial restricition on what bikes I could drive. I've since been using a car exclusively yet I can now legally drive powerful motorbikes if I want simply on the basis of the length of time I've had my license.

Of course if it's a case of having to pass suplementary driver training courses to drive certain cars then I guess I'd be broadly in favour of that.

javaboy

t-ha wrote: »

What do people think of the original question though - License v's Experience? Will it be based purely on the length of time you've held your license?

I think it's idiotic tbh. Let the insurers implement their statistical stereotyping if they want but creating two tiered systems in law is wrong imo.

If experience makes you a better driver and the passing of the test doesn't really affect it much, you'd think they would realise there is something badly wrong with the driving test. You might as well do away with the test at that rate.

Of course if it's a case of having to pass suplementary driver training courses to drive certain cars then I guess I'd be broadly in favour of that.

+1. I wouldn't be opposed to that idea although I think if they sorted out the original driving test it wouldn't be necessary.

Wishbone Ash

Learning from experience is what's important not experience itself. I'm sure we all know the elderly aunt' types who have been driving around for years but never really got the hang of it. In saying that, they are probably statistically 'safer' than many other drivers!

It's interesting now to see what excuses people come up with. Until recently, those 'experienced' Learners always used the waiting times as an excuse.,I always found that somewhat suspect as, even at their peak, only one third of Learner Drivers had applied for a test.

Berty

javaboy wrote: »

I wouldn't be opposed to that idea although I think if they sorted out the original driving test it wouldn't be necessary.

Drivers Ed in schools could sort much of the problems out.

A lot of what is discussed on this forum relates to poor driving discipline. Lane positioning, correct use of the vehicles controls, how to change a wheel, headlights, check oil etc etc.

If they are considering teaching 5 years old sex education then surely they can consider teaching drivers ed.

Orla K

For the driving experience thing I personally think it should be more like flying licences where you have regular check ups with an instructor. I've thought this since I before I was legally allowed to drive because of my father, he was an awful driver, he had all the bad habits. My brother then started driving and instantly picked up all of his bad habits (six years on a prov licence)

Luckly since then both have gotten better, my father because of his girlfriend she was terrifed of his driving, she'd be in the front screaming. My brother because he wants a full licence, in fairness to him he get unbelievely nervious days before the test, he's normally calm when driving.

My uncle also said that driving should be checked the same as flying, he has a pilot licence and used be be a garda.

I also know people that never did any test they just ticked a box to get the licence they wanted.

Wishbone Ash

Orla K wrote: »

I also know people that never did any test they just ticked a box to get the licence they wanted.

Nothing particularly unusual about that Orla. It was standard practise before the introduction of driving tests in 1964. Many drivers over the age of 61 may not have done a driving test.

Voodoomelon

I think I broke all records in regards learning to drive. Bought a tincan 1997 Polo in February, never sat behind a wheel EVER, not a clue how to drive. Applied for my test and got 5 or 6 lessons in the mean time, whilst doing the usual out and about on a provisional (well in those days anyways). Got my test in early May 12 weeks later and passed with 3 ticks, instructor said i was "truely excellent" . Got my licence a few days later and the next day I flew to England and brought home a 7 series BMW.

999cc to 2800cc in 12 weeks, I could see that bothering a few politicians alright. However I am a very conservative driver, I hate excessive speed, take pleasure in letting people out and manoevering well. That's why it maddens me to see so much bad driving from OLDER drivers. You can't just tackle new drivers when there are so many bad drivers out there for 20 years and more. The whole system needs a total overhall.

GreeBo

I think we all agree that passing the test doesnt make you a good driver, but there has to be some sort of initial testing to weed out the hopeless.
I also dont know how you would measure experience. You could have a full licence for 5 years only using it on weekends, or have it for 1 year but use it everyday. How do you account for that in the restrictions?

I think the easiest way to do it is with Drivers Ed. If people are forced to take 1 or 2 years works of Drivers Ed classes while in school etc then at least everyone has that level of experience of controlled driving. If your first 2 years of driving are only ever with an instructor then you are less likely to develop the bad habits that people get when they are out practicing on their own.

Climate Expert

Traumadoc wrote: »

Where statistics ever provided that show that people on provisional licenses were more likely to be involved in RTAs?

Statistics point to the opposite, ie. they are involved proportionally less. This was reported a few years back.

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I just find it extremely difficult to believe that someone could pass a driving test without L plates displayed. It's one of the most basic requirements and the first thing the examiner checks when brought out to the vehicle.

Maybe L plates would be pushing it but my sister had her test a few months ago. I went with her to the test centre so was watching when she came out to do her test. Now she had a female tester and the other two lads doing tests at the same time had men. It was pouring rain and the two men did all the checks on the cars, made them open the bonnet etc. Then out came my sis. her tester took one look at the rain and jumped straight into the car and they took off she didnt look at anything except maybe the discs. It was quite funny actually. She was first to leave and was back 20mins before one of the lads and we were gone before the other lad got back and she passed! The tester you get can make a big difference imo.

Orla K

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Nothing particularly unusual about that Orla. It was standard practise before the introduction of driving tests in 1964. Many drivers over the age of 61 may not have done a driving test.

The worst thing is that there is nothing unusual about it, I know one of these people that doesn't see anything wrong in stopping on a roundabout to ask directions! Another never knows what lane to be in, panics and ends up confusing everyone on the road.

Experience only really counts in reaction time.

Yakult

Im not for this, if you have bad habits from day one, your more than likely still gonna have them at day 23829. Its just putting more crap on top of good good drivers.

Also, as for the guards. They barely enforce the new L drivers law, the whole R plates would just mean alot more on their plate and just more hassel.

superjosh9

R_H_C_P wrote: »

Im not for this, if you have bad habits from day one, your more than likely still gonna have them at day 23829. Its just putting more crap on top of good good drivers.

Couldn't disagree with you more. All I know is that when I was younger, and my friends were younger, we all drove like morans - and that was with a full license. You telling me that someone in their 40s, married with kids, will drive like they're 17??????????? No dice.

Every single day I learn something new on the roads, and I think back to all those 'near misses' that make me a better driver. It's these 'near misses' that count for experience, which those straight out of the learner school don't have. In fact, they have absolutely nothing coming out. I've come across a few kids in my time that have been given high-powered cars straight after they get their test, and they kill themselves, or worse, someone else. Now I don't want to generalise that, some kids are great drivers and can handle speed and have good coordination, but not all of them do/can, and everytime I see a 17 year old in a brand new Mini Cooper S Works, my head falls. It should not be allowed, for any money.

So, I reckon it's about f-ing time something like this was done.

Anyway, a 17-21 year old should be happy they're driving *anything*.

Edit: I seem a bit angry here, don't mean to be - and not directing this at anyone.

Voodoomelon

I agree with you to an extent, however you're generalising the fact that all young drivers drive like morons, which isn't true.

I would agree that young people have it too easy these days, as soon as you're 17 now, you get a car. I know of students in secondary school driving to school. Is the world gone mad?

geoff29

superjosh9 wrote: »

Now I don't want to generalise that, some kids are great drivers and can handle speed and have good coordination, but not all of them do/can,...

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I agree with you to an extent, however you're generalising the fact that all young drivers drive like morons, which isn't true.

was he?

btw, I agree with both of you!

Voodoomelon

Well that's what I got from the line about him and all his friends driving like morans, and now that hes older is now a better driver.

javaboy

Simeon Old Pellet wrote: »

Now she had a female tester and the other two lads doing tests at the same time had men. It was pouring rain and the two men did all the checks on the cars, made them open the bonnet etc. Then out came my sis. her tester took one look at the rain and jumped straight into the car and they took off she didnt look at anything except maybe the discs. It was quite funny actually. She was first to leave and was back 20mins before one of the lads and we were gone before the other lad got back and she passed! The tester you get can make a big difference imo.

Funnily enough I had a female tester too and it started raining midway through the test. When it came to the technical checks, she made sure to pick ones that could be answered without having to get out and demonstrate anything. She asked about checking the oil. I asked if she wanted me to show her and she said "Nah no need. It's raining. Just talk me through it."

seanybiker

restricted license sounds like a good idea. Bikers have to drive crap bikes for two years after passing test

towel401

javaboy wrote: »

It might be free WiFi all right but WiFi doesn't stand for Wireless Free Internet.

it does now.
its actually better than the old thing it used to stand for

javaboy

seanybiker wrote: »

restricted license sounds like a good idea. Bikers have to drive crap bikes for two years after passing test

Yet you don't have to actually ride a bike between the time you pass your test and the time you lose the restrictions. The same way you don't have to drive during the 6 months that people on 1st learner licences cannot apply for their test.

If the test was decent enough, there would be no need for delays or restrictions.

towel401

ah yes keep making it harder so in a few years all we're left with is driverless electric cars that won't go past 40 mph. all in the name of safety and the environment

ninty9er

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I agree with you to an extent, however you're generalising the fact that all young drivers drive like morons, which isn't true.

I would agree that young people have it too easy these days, as soon as you're 17 now, you get a car. I know of students in secondary school driving to school. Is the world gone mad?

Who's generalising now?

towel401 wrote: »

it does now.
its actually better than the old thing it used to stand for

I pay for my WiFi and the network is locked, so it certainly doesn't stand for Wireless Free Internet....it does however stand for Wireless Fidelity.

Oh and since when is there a 4th test centre in Limerick City??