M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652514#Comment_118652514

It's not as simple as "Tough" really. He is speaking as Minister for Enterprise and is effectively saying that the road will improve business investment despite it going against government policy. So does the Minister believe that government policy should be followed or not?

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652591#Comment_118652591

What Government policy? Building the ring road is Government policy.

Green Peter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652591#Comment_118652591

In your opinion

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652618#Comment_118652618

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652735#Comment_118652735

It is not opinion, it is government policy to reduce emissions. Take a look at the NDP, the Project Ireland 2040 NPF or browse through the other government policies. Granted that they also mention advancing the Galway Ring Road but I believe that these were written before it was confirmed that this road would increase our emissions.

saabsaab

I may be wrong but it looks like the 'bypass' may not go ahead in the next 10 years or ever. We need to work out some solutions usiing adaptions of what we have?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118654395#Comment_118654395

Galway City Council has no interest in doing anything other than the Ring Road, so barring a meteor striking their office, nothing will change there in the next 20 years.

I'd be very surprised if the Ring Road was built in the next 20 years also

spacetweek

The real enabler for better buses in Galway is to widen their ridiculously narrow distributor roads in order to add bus lanes. But that would require CPO of gardens. It may be that we need legislative change (or enactment of emergency powers) to get the required land.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118655257#Comment_118655257

The only new bus lane planned for Galway is the addition of an inbound & outbound lane along the Dublin rd from the Martin RAB to the Hunstman (See red line below). There are bits of inbound lanes already, the planned project will make full lanes, end to end and bus priority signaling at junctions (when the RABs are removed).

Other than that there are no new bus lanes planned for Galway city. There is the cross city link project (see blue below), but this is removing through access for cars rather than adding bus lanes.

This will result in a bus priority spine through the city which all routes will use at some stage along their journey

The GTS is up for review this year and I don't see it going beyond the existing plans to nay great extent as its not in the interests of GCC who are singularly focused on the ring road above all else. They may put the WDR forward for a make-over similar to what was done on the SQR (see purple above), but that will be it

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we drop silly analogies. This thread is about the M6 Galway Ring Road, and it way from getting PP through the trials of judicial reviews.

Post deleted.

Please do not comment on Mod posts on thread - use the PM or report post - but PM is best.

The PT and cycling infrastructure aspect is very much part of the GCRR project, although that appears to have bypassed the GCC.

TII highlighting that the GCRR is still many, many years away., They highlight, quite rightly, that while judicial reviews are an issue, the biggest problem with them is the lack of resources in the courts/planning bodies etc to get through the JR's in an efficient manner.

I've said it many times before and I'll keep saying it, JR's & appeals are not a problem if bodies are staffed appropriately. The only reason a JR and an appeal can not be done and dusted within a few months is staffing.

In his opening statement Peter Walsh said that any progress on the road awaits the outcome of three separate judicial reviews.

“In TII’s experience, judicial reviews cause very lengthy delays to project delivery. Accordingly, it seems likely, at this stage, that delivery of the Ring Road will be significantly delayed.”

Peter Walsh said in his statement to the Joint Committee that the planning process is currently “highly complex and time-consuming”, with delays of “years, not months” when judicial reviews are sought of approved projects.

Peter Walsh added in his statement that TII does not object to “public scrutiny or judicial supervision”, but that bodies associated with granting approval need resources to function within reasonable periods of time.

“TII also suggests that the State ensures adequate levels of judicial resourcing so that challenges to vital public infrastructure can be determined in months rather than years.”

https://www.galwaydaily.com/news/transport/tii-gives-grim-outlook-for-galway-ring-road-to-oireachtas-committee

cgcsb

It's amazing how policy documents still talk about congestion charging and a second bypass as a solution when Oslo has proven that traffic congestion can be almost entirely eliminated by closing through routes to cars in the centre, while London still arsing around adding arms and legs to congestion charging to try make it work. Simple low tech solutions aren't to be discussed at official level.

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118899334#Comment_118899334

I'm all in favour of an Oslo-style solution for Galway. The first step, of course, is a full-scale motorway bypass. Oslo's E18 runs directly underneath the closed downtown area and is three lanes in each direction, coupled with an inner ground-level bypass (sort of like the current N6) and a second outer motorway bypass (like the planned M6, except it is mostly three lanes in each direction).

I presume this is the level of ambition you are talking about, because this is the infrastructure that had to be in place for Oslo to be able to close off its city centre to cars without chaos erupting.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118900658#Comment_118900658

Oslo is a population of 635k,Galway is a population of 78k.

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118900946#Comment_118900946

Also, they speak Norwegian in Oslo.

If you're looking for someone to defend the use of Oslo as a model for reducing congestion in Galway, I think the poster who originally proposed it is the best man for the job. I'm only on board for the motorways.

cgcsb

Would you not argue for Oslo's metro instead? The most metro line per head of population in the world.

FreedomOfSpeechAndChoice

Do you think we could get back on topic here? Roads, this is. Not underground trains.

donvito99

Galway did have an underground train at a point. Just saying.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118905862#Comment_118905862

I think it would be more accurate to say that it had a train that went through a long tunnel for a bit

Chris_5339762

Under that assumption Cork has an active underground network 😁

Sam Russell

Mod: Back on topic please.

Interesting to see that, in Limerick, the Limerick Northern Distributor Road (LNDR) has been removed from the Limerick transport strategy document, the LSMATS.

One of the biggest criticisms of the Galway Transport Strategy (GTS) was that it was basically the GCRR and a few breadcrumbs with a large number of those breadcrumbs contingent on the GCRR. Will be very interesting to see if the GCRR gets taken out of the next revision of the GTS in the same way as Limericks LNDR

From an active travel/public transport/permeability standpoint, you'd have to hope so.

hans aus dtschl

Yep but at the same time, the NTA and the people they're commissioning to publish these transport strategies clearly don't believe that a transition to sustainable transport is achievable. They're predicting ultra-low sustainable mode shares in Cork and Limerick by 2040. They're predicting high mode shares of car usage, and they're attempting to actively plan and design for this. And invest in it.

I find that extremely concerning. Either mode shift will be possible or it won't.

We now seem to have the minister dictating that mode shift must (and will!) happen (so do not plan for car share growth), and the National Transport Authority saying "we have nothing to back this up". I don't see how that could possibly succeed.

Back on topic, I now go from thinking "the Galway Ring Road Won't Happen" to "all bets are off".

marno21

Removing the Limerick NDR is ideological nonsense. There is no bus corridor across the north side of the city, there is no option to remove traffic from the city centre without providing alternative routes which there is none.

This is a functional democracy. Limerick is a small low density city with poor road infrastructure for getting around the city. If you remove cars from the city centre without popular support you’ll get fucked out at the next election and someone will come in to reverse it.

Its genuinely hard to see what the logic behind this is. All it’s going to do is provoke backlash and in the 21st century with the perception of Eamon Ryan and the Green Party the way it is this is a complete waste of time.

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984106#Comment_118984106

I'm not sure what your point is here. They should just give in to whoever shouts loudest? I'd argue that what most people want is to get around easily and quickly and jump to the conclusion that everyone driving everywhere is how to get this. The evidence points to that not being the case and more efficient modes of transport are needed so an effective government should be able to see this and make it happen. Otherwise it's just a load of headless chickens running around after whatever they think is the current flavor of the month. Which does feels like what we have most of the time...

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983723#Comment_118983723

Is it comparable? Limerick City has a 3/4 ring road motorway around it already. Limerick City has really good road infrastructure. The problem Limerick problem has now is that cannot shift people to other modes as driving around Limerick City is so easy. Galway City has higher bus and cycling numbers than Limerick in the CSO stats because it has not followed this path yet. I agree though that the Galway Transport Strategy should be split. Anybody have latest costings on the Galway City Ring Road?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984399#Comment_118984399

Anybody have latest costings on the Galway City Ring Road?

Any costings put forward to-date would be massively under what it would cost to develop the road now because of the Ukraine war, etc. No contractor could work to previous cost estimates.

what_traffic

True. Currently its running at 13%

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0421/1293557-scsi-rate-of-construction-price-inflation-jumps-to-13/

but considering Civil Eng works like the Ring Road would use large amount of FUEL in the heavy earth moving machines; could even be higher.

Aontachtoir

The cheapest time to build this road would have been over a decade ago. The second cheapest time is now. Inflation will never stop being a problem, and this road will always be needed - especially if the plan is to make car travel in central Galway so difficult and so cumbersome that it is not worth the hassle. After what happened in Salthill, good luck making those changes without putting in place a viable and reasonable alternative.

The choice before us is to cut our losses and build the road ASAP, or to double down on our losses by delaying it for another decade of inflation.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988197#Comment_118988197

So according to you there are really only two choices for the people of Galway when it comes to this road - build it now or later? Everyone must be able to drive no matter what?

It's no wonder Galway traffic is so bad when this is the perspective.

FreedomOfSpeechAndChoice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988259#Comment_118988259

Or....traffic is so bad because of the lack of a decent bypass....???