An Irish alternative to Barack Obama?

gunner_twotone

Just to get the ball rolling here!

Does anyone think in todays Irish politics we have someone or some party who can bring change to this country who's main care and ambition is the Irish people?

In my opinion our current government have done very little in satisfying their voters and have so far not lived up to their promises of reform.

The other parties are great at finding the faults but they lack the will to bring about change.

Of all the trouble in the country, House prices, Insurance, Tax, Fuel, Health Care, the Justice system, to name only a few, What has this Government doen to change any of this on a large scale? Every answer we get is "we're getting there", or " we've come a long way".

What other Party has convinced the Country that they can bring about change?

Is there not 1 person who can tackle the problems of this country or are we to wait and just sit back and watch as we see our lives get harder?

Dave!

Shure Inda has Obama-esque charisma! It's like listening to Martin King himself!

Darragh29

Unfortunately I don't see anyone on the current politcal horizon that could do this.

I think the reason why Barack Obama has been so successful here is because he hasn't been corrupted by the politcal class of people, he hasn't experienced the wealth and patronage that comes with being part of the political establishment. It was only 8 years ago, that he couldn't attend the Democratic Convention when trying to book a ticket and a hotel room because his credit card company declined the transaction and he was all but broke.

We will get a similar candidate in Ireland at some stage, but he or she won't be part of the current political landscape, in fact I imagine they will be sucessful largely because of that...

If you think about it, now is the prime moment for someone to set up a new political party in Ireland. With the PD's dissembled and on their way to the political graveyard, and with the sheer amount of discontent out there with the government, not because cutbacks are necessary but because again and again, they are taking the soft options, bowing to vested interests and not addressing the root causes of our problems...

gunner_twotone

Well said,

But instead of a Party coming along saying they will do wonders, We need one that will act!

Talk is cheap in Leinster House, we need a party who is the people, for the people and will bring change that will work!

wildsaffy

I would like to.

But on what ticket, with whom?

An independent?

Am not part of the class system here ... I think the country has a long way to go before it can pay token lipservice to "outsiders" who can bring needed change.

Although saying that - there is a restlessness out there - witness the pensioners out marching - people start to want change from the grass roots.

gunner_twotone

wildsaffy wrote: »

I would like to.

But on what ticket, with whom?

An independent?

Am not part of the class system here ... I think the country has a long way to go before it can pay token lipservice to "outsiders" who can bring needed change.

Although saying that - there is a restlessness out there - witness the pensioners out marching - people start to want change from the grass roots.

An Idependent would need alot of help!

To form a party, all must have the same common goals and interests and above all, they will value the Interests and qualities of the Irish People.

Take on one problem at a time. Set out each goal and how they can acheive it. If you stir the publics interest they will follow you, if the people follow you, you can acheive anything

xOxSinéadxOx

there ain't nobody

Liam Byrne

Watched a bit of Leader's Questions earlier and I've got to say that I'm STUNNED at the pure rubbish that was spouted.

In the 5 minutes that I saw, Cowen was asked 3 straight questions and didn't answer one of them, instead spouting loosely-related pre-prepared snippets from reports that made the Government look slightly better than the answer to the question would have.

Only worthwhile comment of the 5 minutes was Eamon Gilmore referring to Obama's win and remarking on how it was great to see the level of hope and enthusiasm that could be brought about by a change of Government.

But - IMHO - that's precisely WHY we'll never see a "do-er" in an Irish Government; they'd all get too bored with the petty digs and point-scoring and inertial inability to make big decisions.

gunner_twotone

Nearly all our politicians have gone to college, have dealth with the higher class way of life since they were children.

What about the middle class?

We need someone from the middle class to help the middle class.

FF are high rollers, only looking after the Horse people, the Rich!

What about the normal 5 8's. Trying to make a living? What help do we get from the Country?

Then we have the scroungers! No one cares anymore, Its like the Government pitys the unemployed, is scared of the rich and always slams the middle class.

We need change people!

Darragh29

wildsaffy wrote: »

I would like to.

But on what ticket, with whom?

An independent?

Am not part of the class system here ... I think the country has a long way to go before it can pay token lipservice to "outsiders" who can bring needed change.

Although saying that - there is a restlessness out there - witness the pensioners out marching - people start to want change from the grass roots.

You see your into the first problem in Ireland, that we tend to think inwardly and look for a system to support us when we go to do something. If you were the person who was going to start a new political organisation in this country, you'd have to accept from the outset that you are creating your own ticket, that you set out what you want to achieve and you get a few good people who share your vision on board and you go at it.

The one thing that you would have to be able to do is inspire people. There is nobody operating on the political landscape in Ireland who has this gift and this is what this is, a gift.

LordSutch

Certainly in Britain 'David Cameron' is waiting in the wings with an almost Blair like confidence that Brown is sadly missing, Cameron is also a good speaker & communicator, he looks good, he's smart, & he's young.

Here in Ireland, I cant see anyone in Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Labour or the Greens enthralling enough, or interesting enough to replace or threaten Brian Cowan's position as Taoiseach - which doesnt say much for the opposition.

Pat Rabbitte was pretty good I thought (even if he was Labour), Enda Kenny leaves me cold, almost like he has had a 'chrisma-ectomy' along the way, and who else is there? Dermot Ahern (NO thanks), Tom Kitt (FF)? Barry Andrews (FF)? Mary Harney ............ :rolleyes:

Cant think of anybody in the wings either!

gunner_twotone

Well then someone new, Someone who is not spoilled by the ways of the Government!

Someone people will follow because that person follows the people!

Are we all just gonna sit back and accept the country is doomed? Can we not even try to make this a better place to live?

leninbenjamin

boards should form a political party. seems to be hundres of users here who have the answer to everything.

Frankie Lee

What about Leo Varadkar?

zuroph

i'll run if u vote for me.

xOxSinéadxOx

leninbenjamin wrote: »

boards should form a political party. seems to be hundres of users here who have the answer to everything.

I don't think we're united in our ideas though :pac:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

If there was, and he ran for office, I'm not entirely convinced we'd elect him.

gunner_twotone

Well its a start!

We all agree on one thing so far, We all need change!

Sam Kade

An Irish alternative to Barack Obama? You should rephrase your question as Obama has done nothing yet only given promises, wait 6 months and see if he keeps his promises.

gunner_twotone

Sam Kade wrote: »

An Irish alternative to Barack Obama? You should rephrase your question as Obama has done nothing yet only given promises, wait 6 months and see if he keeps his promises.

He's done far more than any politician over here so far!

He's got the interest of a nation and for all the right reasons!

wildsaffy

Lol!!! I am getting well inspired ( - hides from Darragh29). ....

I think I am pretty inspired. I am not "owned" by any group. My father was / is a politician and it irks me to watch injustice - I think my partner is (once again) going to ban me from watching the news / politics because I burn his dinner......from pure distraction and shouting at the telly....

But (a) is it worth it
(b) is one prepared to pay the price
(c) will the skeletons in my cupboard please get on board? lol (falling out
of pubs singing the national anthem is sooo not a good look)

I think I would do it. Where to start etc etc.

wildsaffy

wildsaffy wrote: »

Lol!!! I am getting well inspired ( - hides from Darragh29). ....

I think I am pretty inspired. I am not "owned" by any group. My father was / is a politician and it irks me to watch injustice - I think my partner is (once again) going to ban me from watching the news / politics because I burn his dinner......from pure distraction and shouting at the telly....

But (a) is it worth it
(b) is one prepared to pay the price
(c) will the skeletons in my cupboard please get on board? lol (falling out
of pubs singing the national anthem is sooo not a good look)

I think I would do it. Where to start etc etc.

(d) is someone going to read my post and nobble me before I start

lostexpectation

no cos we'll never have 'leftwing' taoiseach

zuroph

iv thought for months id love to go in and start something like the PDs from scratch, kick out all the wasters, and build it up as a young fresh new party for the people

djpbarry

gunner_twotone wrote: »

Nearly all our politicians have gone to college, have dealth with the higher class way of life since they were children.

:rolleyes: While I’ve not read the biographies of all TD’s, I would be very surprised if they were all from the “higher class”, whatever that is.

gunner_twotone wrote: »

We all need change!

Indeed; bus drivers don't accept notes anymore.

gunner_twotone wrote: »

He's done far more than any politician over here so far!

He's only just been elected FFS! Sure, he's got buckets of charisma (and I wish him all the best), but how about we wait and see what he actually DOES before we start clambering for an Irish version?

Mr.Nice Guy

I don't think any Irish politician would garner the reaction Obama has been getting and I think that's a good thing. It bothers me the way Americans fawn over their politicians. I much prefer the cautious, dare I say cynical, attitude that people in Ireland and Britain adopt towards them.

I remember it happening with Dubya too. He'd go to some rally to answer questions and you'd have some muppet spewing out compliments. "Mr President I think you are just an inspiration blah, blah, blah."

I don't like the way America places so much emphasis on personality politics. In Europe we've seen that tried in certain countries in the past and not go down too well. At all.

I think in Ireland we will always put policies before personalities and for me that's the way politics ought to be.

zuroph

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think in Ireland we will always put policies before personalities and for me that's the way politics ought to be.

rubbish, people have party allegiances and stick to them, regardless of policy etc. if there was an election tomorrow FF would still hold a huge share of the vote regardless of the state they've put the country in.
and a lot of people wont vote for kenny cos of his creepy personality.

xOxSinéadxOx

zuroph wrote: »

rubbish, people have party allegiances and stick to them, regardless of policy etc. if there was an election tomorrow FF would still hold a huge share of the vote regardless of the state they've put the country in.
and a lot of people wont vote for kenny cos of his creepy personality.

I dunno who I'd vote for, I don't trust any party to run this country

Sam Kade

gunner_twotone wrote: »

He's done far more than any politician over here so far!

He's got the interest of a nation and for all the right reasons!

He was senator of Illinois before being elected for president explain what he has already done for the American people.

marcsignal

Irish Alternative to Barack Obama ?

zuroph

marcsignal wrote: »

Irish Alternative to Barack Obama ?

dare i say it....he's got the lips.

ongarite

Can't see it happening myself. Politics in Ireland is far too local; can't see the bigger picture, whats needed in the nations interest. A lot of politicians in this country are 2nd, 3rd generation, its in the family, career politicians.

The only way something like it could happen here is if some figureheard started a party and didn't care if they got burned bad and had the vision and determination to fix the country and not pander to all the vested interests and local lobbys.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ongarite wrote: »

Can't see it happening myself. Politics in Ireland is far too local; can't see the bigger picture, whats needed in the nations interest. A lot of politicians in this country are 2nd, 3rd generation, its in the family, career politicians.

The only way something like it could happen here is if some figureheard started a party and didn't care if they got burned bad and had the vision and determination to fix the country and not pander to all the vested interests and local lobbys.

I still say we'd never vote for them. It's be like Obama running for governor of Texas.

zig

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I still say we'd never vote for them. It's be like Obama running for governor of Texas.

Exactly!!
I think its hilarious that theres so many Irish in support of obama yet the very same people want the eastern europeans/romanians/nigerians out.
Its absolutely laughable to think the irish would vote for a candidate whos both parents were nigerian(for example). Give us 30/40 years and thats still being generous.

zuroph

zig wrote: »

Exactly!!
I think its hilarious that theres so many Irish in support of obama yet the very same people want the eastern europeans/romanians/nigerians out.
Its absolutely laughable to think the irish would vote for a candidate whos both parents were nigerian(for example). Give us 30/40 years and thats still being generous.

theres a big difference between barack and a roma gypsy. but thats a whole other can of worms.

oscarBravo

zuroph wrote: »

and a lot of people wont vote for kenny cos of his creepy personality.

Have you ever met him?

zuroph

no, and neither has most of the population of the country. I'm basing this judgement on how he carries himself on the radio and tv, the main access point I have to the man. one of the most cringeworthy moments was while he was canvassing at last election and repeatedly referred to himself in the third person during an interview!!

charisma goes a long way, and unfortunately, for a long time, Bertie was the only one with any, and even he didnt have a lot.

now I cant think of one that exudes that "its ok, I know what I'm doing, don't worry" quality.

oscarBravo

zuroph wrote: »

no, and neither has most of the population of the country. I'm basing this judgement on how he carries himself on the radio and tv, the main access point I have to the man. one of the most cringeworthy moments was while he was canvassing at last election and repeatedly referred to himself in the third person during an interview!!

I'm not sure how any of this adds up to a "creepy personality".

zuroph

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm not sure how any of this adds up to a "creepy personality".

thats the great thing about opinions.

IMO he's a poor opposition leader. He's like the uncle u get stuck talkin to at a family wedding, who holds ur arm so u cant leave, while telling u about "the problems with the nieghbours"

buynow

The structure of Irish democracy sort of prevents something happening in Ireland like just happened in the US. The people don't directly elect the Taoiseach.

I mean what would happen here, you have to be a TD in one of the two FG/FF. And then wait until it is your turn, it is like some Union mandated seniority promotion thing.

You would need the leaders of the parties to be elected directly by the people.

zuroph

buynow wrote: »

The structure of Irish democracy sort of prevents something happening in Ireland like just happened in the US. The people don't directly elect the Taoiseach.

I mean what would happen here, you have to be a TD in one of the two FG/FF. And then wait until it is your turn, it is like some Union mandated seniority promotion thing.

You would need the leaders of the parties to be elected directly by the people.

TECHNICALLy, in the US they dont directly elect the president either.

buynow

zuroph wrote: »

TECHNICALLy, in the US they dont directly elect the president either.

I know, but it would be bad form if the electors turned around and elected Sarah Palin now wouldn't it?

I think one guy in the last one voted for edwards by accident, didn't he?

zuroph

well isnt it a pretty similar system in that we elect local tds and THEY forward the taioseach...

buynow

zuroph wrote: »

well isnt it a pretty similar system in that we elect local tds and THEY forward the taioseach...

In a way yes, however the electoral college is a one shot deal, that is what you are voting for and just that.

But the main point is that the nominee is also chosen by the public in the US (I know the democrats have some daft super delegate malarkey). And so an unknown newcomer can become the nominee and then the president. So you would need the leaders of FF or FG to be elected by the public.

The question of whether it is a better option is another one.

simu

Enda isn't inspiring and I have as little confidence in his ability to sort out this country's problems as I have in Cowen & co. I'm not alone in thinking this, either.

The problem with the mainstream parties is that their main raison d'etre is to propagate themselves rather than to improve the lot of the Irish people. They will say and do whatever it takes to keep seats and keep the show going but there's nothing beyond that. OK, you get the odd far-sighted politician who somehow makes it through the party machinery and makes a difference but they're flukes rather than the norm.

We need an end to civil war politics. Labour, the Greens and the PDs aren't much better because they're all wrapped up in their own ideologies. Sinn Féin are saddled with a lot of dark baggage. Who else? A raggle-taggle bag of random independents and loonies!

We need a new party or even parties, new ideas and new people to enter politics in this country and we need them to get Joe and Josie Soap to reconsider their voting habits and the standard to which they hold their elected representatives. The recession might be just the opening for new political movements in Ireland as it will surely show the ineptness of our present gang of mugs dot dot dot

Acacia

simu wrote: »

Enda isn't inspiring and I have as little confidence in his ability to sort out this country's problems as I have in Cowen & co. I'm not alone in thinking this, either.

The problem with the mainstream parties is that their main raison d'etre is to propagate themselves rather than to improve the lot of the Irish people. They will say and do whatever it takes to keep seats and keep the show going but there's nothing beyond that. OK, you get the odd far-sighted politician who somehow makes it through the party machinery and makes a difference but they're flukes rather than the norm.

We need an end to civil war politics. Labour, the Greens and the PDs aren't much better because they're all wrapped up in their own ideologies. Sinn Féin are saddled with a lot of dark baggage. Who else? A raggle-taggle bag of random independents and loonies!

We need a new party or even parties, new ideas and new people to enter politics in this country and we need them to get Joe and Josie Soap to reconsider their voting habits and the standard to which they hold their elected representatives. The recession might be just the opening for new political movements in Ireland as it will surely show the ineptness of our present gang of mugs dot dot dot

I second this. I'm rather disillusioned with Irish politicians- they all seem as bad as each other, and not one of them seems interested (genuinely) in sorting out the problems of the Irish public. My grandfather used to say, in reference to FF and FG that, "It doesn't matter which one is in- we still pay. But at least with FF the ordinary Joe gets crumbs from the rich man's table.'' That about sums it up for me.

I'm not particularly enamored with any political party here to be honest.

Carturo

How about Blacky Connor? Pikey for Pres! :pac:

is_that_so

I don't think we would go for a figure like that because as soon as we got one we'd start knocking them down, too big for their boots etc. It's also questionable whether something like that is always good. While the US can embrace it , a bit too much in my view, and while we might admire it from afar I couldn't imagine us self-consciously muttering "Change we can believe in/Yes we can" in a field in Leitrim or anywhere else for that matter.

I'd also suggest that some people are looking at this in a very jaundiced way. Most of that IMO comes out of the frustration with the "people" voting back in the present incumbents. What we have is a government that has been in power way too long. We've been here before, more than a few times. What we do need is new blood and a different way of looking at things. That can only come with a change in government.

eoinbn

buynow wrote: »

The structure of Irish democracy sort of prevents something happening in Ireland like just happened in the US. The people don't directly elect the Taoiseach.

I mean what would happen here, you have to be a TD in one of the two FG/FF. And then wait until it is your turn, it is like some Union mandated seniority promotion thing.

You would need the leaders of the parties to be elected directly by the people.

Well the last election was between Bernie and Kenny. People certainly thinking which *party* would have been better for the economy as it was a pretty clear choice between a minister of finance with no experience in finance, Cowen, and a Oxford graduate in economics, Bruton.

Michael O'Leary! Not quite Obama, but at least people might listen to what he had to say and we NEED to hear it.

Someone said Leo Varadkar and it was the first name that came into my head. Indian father and irish mother, young, inexperienced and has some charisma, well by Irish standards.

Acacia wrote: »

I second this. I'm rather disillusioned with Irish politicians- they all seem as bad as each other, and not one of them seems interested (genuinely) in sorting out the problems of the Irish public. My grandfather used to say, in reference to FF and FG that, "It doesn't matter which one is in- we still pay. But at least with FF the ordinary Joe gets crumbs from the rich man's table.'' That about sums it up for me.

I'm not particularly enamored with any political party here to be honest.

Your grandfathers comment is pretty much what every FF support says when you ask them why did they vote FF-"they are all the same, might as well vote for them as the other crowd". However they never do vote for the other side, they always vote FF- odd that.

is_that_so

eoinbn wrote: »

Someone said Leo Varadkar and it was the first name that came into my head. Indian father and irish mother, young, inexperienced and has some charisma, well by Irish standards.

I thought so at first but Varadker has proved to be a bit of a loose cannon and acts like a yapping puppy sometimes. He needs to learn to shut up.

wildsaffy

Ok.

Had a miscarriage - totally unecessary - 2005. Had fibroids. Got zilch all help in that time - was a prsi wagie at some points - even though some of my employers had neglected the prsi side of it .....

Was told I had to have a hystectomy - no options offered. I thought it was too drastic but never thought I would get preggers again.

So. Yesterday got handed a bill for €2,500. Of a €4,500 bill some of which I might claim off my private insurance that I have been paying for 2 years.

Never mind what's taken off my pay packet.

I just set up a company - it may take up a while till tax benefits filter through. Etc. Etc.

so - while I (might) lie in a hospital tonight (because of the bleeding that should have been sorted 2005) - possibly losing this baby - at point did I see of sense of care? psri? shah - we will shove you into this lady of lourdes (who would be rolling in her grave) cattle pit - or pay through the nose and you will still pay through the nose scenario? What would you like me to tell you about the health service?

And yes - private - and I got the best doctor ever. Wish I had met him 3 years ago. Are private / public doctors not supposed to be the same here?

I really wish someone would explain to this (literally) laywoman.