Could you ever see the Aussies vote for an Aborigine as PM?

BarryCreed

Obama gets elected.
I know it's slightly different circumstances and history etc, but any of you ever think you could imagine Aussies voting in an Aboriginal politician to lead the country , or are there many in parliament at the moment?

hussey

BarryCreed wrote: »

Obama gets elected.
I know it's slightly different circumstances and history etc, but any of you ever think you could imagine Aussies voting in an Aboriginal politician to lead the country , or are there many in parliament at the moment?

Please take this to the politics forum, I don't think many people are up on their aboriginal history/culture

kittex

Does that reply not illustrate part of his point?

BarryCreed

hussey wrote: »

Please take this to the politics forum, I don't think many people are up on their aboriginal history/culture

Well, that's a point well made right there with that response. I suppose I meant it as a more general question rather than talking politics...

BarryCreed

ok, let me rephrase it and take "or are there many in parliament at the moment".

How about just: Would the Aussies ever vote an Aborginal politcian to be PM?

hussey

Yes and no, my point was that I didn't really want to see a thread that was full of "all aboriginals are x, y and z".

But to answer the OP, no I cannot see that for the foreseeable future. Mainly due to they only represent 2.5% of the population, and because they live in their own lands and try to keep out of the westernised Australian way of life.

My 2c

The_B_Man

ye i think that any of the abodigidies that are in parliament at the moment are too low down the chain to be considered to be put forward.

In the future i suppose its possible but by then they'll be even more outnumbered by us whiteys so chances are there'll be even more whiteys ahead in the pecking order.

Climate Expert

BarryCreed wrote: »

Obama gets elected.
I know it's slightly different circumstances and history etc, but any of you ever think you could imagine Aussies voting in an Aboriginal politician to lead the country , or are there many in parliament at the moment?

You should be looking for somebody half aboriginal, half white who was brought up around white people his whole life to make it a fair comparison.

Xavi6

Not a snowballs chance in hell during our lifetime anyway.

brendansmith

Xavi6 wrote: »

Not a snowballs chance in hell during our lifetime anyway.

Agreed,
Not for a long long time, sure it was only in the last year that the government finally apologised for stealing all the children and separating them from other aboriginies to stop them reproducing in order to phase out their race.

hussey

brendansmith wrote: »

Agreed,
Not for a long long time, sure it was only in the last year that the government finally apologised for stealing all the children and separating them from other aboriginies to stop them reproducing in order to phase out their race.

that's not why they apologised, but I understand your point

brendansmith

hussey wrote: »

that's not why they apologised, but I understand your point

Yes it is.


"Prime Minister Kevin Rudd apologised in parliament to all Aborigines for laws and policies that "inflicted profound grief, suffering and loss".
He singled out the "Stolen Generations" of thousands of children forcibly removed from their families." - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7241965.stm


"The new Australian government of Prime Minister Kevin Rudd will apologize for past mistreatment of the country's Aboriginal minority when Parliament convenes next month, addressing an issue that has blighted race relations in Australia for years.

But the most lasting damage was done by the policy of removing Aboriginal children and placing them either with white families or in state institutions as part of a drive to assimilate them with the white population."- http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/30/asia/australia.php

dennisthemennis

Climate Expert wrote: »

You should be looking for somebody half aboriginal, half white who was brought up around white people his whole life to make it a fair comparison.

this.

hussey

brendansmith wrote: »

separating them from other aborigines to stop them reproducing in order to phase out their race.

hussey wrote: »

that's not why they apologised, but I understand your point

This part then

brendansmith

hussey wrote: »

This part then

"policy of removing Aboriginal children and placing them either with white families or in state institutions as part of a drive to assimilate them with the white population"

hussey

brendansmith wrote: »

"policy of removing Aboriginal children and placing them either with white families or in state institutions as part of a drive to assimilate them with the white population"

That is opinion, there was never any hint of that in the speech.

here is full text http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=379056

brendansmith

hussey wrote: »

That is opinion, there was never any hint of that in the speech.

here is full text http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=379056

The third line - "We reflect in particular on the mistreatment of those who were Stolen Generations - this blemished chapter in our nation's history."

Are you trying to wind me up?

hussey

brendansmith wrote: »

The third line - "We reflect in particular on the mistreatment of those who were Stolen Generations - this blemished chapter in our nation's history."

Are you trying to wind me up?

I don't think you are following me, he apologised for mistreating them, he never apologised for "to stop them reproducing in order to phase out their race."

as I said this is opinion

brendansmith

hussey wrote: »

I don't you are following me

What does that mean?:pac::pac:

dSTAR

Aborigines are for the most part treated like second hand citizens. It may be all well and good PM Rudd apologizing to the 'stolen generation' and to all the other aborigines who suffered at the hands of past administrations. He recently called together a talking shop of Australia's wealthiest and most powerful to create an extra 700,000 new jobs for the natives. But as any 'black fella' knows them is just words.

Why are so many still living in slums and shanty towns that would make Soweto look glamorous? Why are the aborigines of the Northern Territory having half of their welfare payments quarantined to supposedly counteract alcoholism and child abuse? While at the same time being forced to travel hundreds of kilometers by taxi to the nearest big chain supermarket because the local stores wont accept their food stamps and there is no local transport?

People in Melbourne are up in arms if their trains are more than five minutes late and they have to stand for their 20 minute journey into the city. The transport minister will jump through hoops to ensure everything is being done to alleviate the problem. Unless these kinds of inequalities are addressed I don't hold out much hope of an aboriginal person coming to power because most white Australians don't want to acknowledge that this is the case in their 'lucky country'.

watna

brendansmith.. Hussey is allowed to disagree with you. As long as neither of you are personally abusive there's no problem with it. I don't think he is doing it to wind you up.

However, in the cause of continuing this thread constructively, how about you both agree to disagree?

Panda

I would have to say no.
The general australian population wouldn't vote for an Aboriginal.
Also i really doubt there is a significant amount of aboriginal voters to back a candidate.

Post again in around 150 to 200 years.

BarryCreed

Climate Expert wrote: »

You should be looking for somebody half aboriginal, half white who was brought up around white people his whole life to make it a fair comparison.

true I suppose....

BarryCreed

But....

if you look at the USA in 1968, there's no black person then could have predicted a black president (ok, I know his mammy was white....)

So it's not unbelievable to think one (in Aus) could be PM or state leader in 20/30 years time.....

The_B_Man

OT, but...

Reports suggest Obama might ask Australia for more troops in Afghanistan!

wordcount

nO even the msot pleseant and liberal Aussies have blind spot when it comes to how rascist they are in relatiion to the Abbos as they call em,

hussey

BarryCreed wrote: »

So it's not unbelievable to think one (in Aus) could be PM or state leader in 20/30 years time.....

yes but blacks in america take up alot more than 2.5% of the population, and of that 2.5% maybe 30-40% live on their own lands away from mainstream culture.

brendansmith

The_B_Man wrote: »

OT, but...

Reports suggest Obama might ask Australia for more troops in Afghanistan!

Really? Link:D

dSTAR

It has been suggested in The Age amongst other places recently.

Link

BarryCreed

hussey wrote: »

yes but blacks in america take up alot more than 2.5% of the population, and of that 2.5% maybe 30-40% live on their own lands away from mainstream culture.

that's another can of worms...

missannik

wordcount wrote: »

nO even the msot pleseant and liberal Aussies have blind spot when it comes to how rascist they are in relatiion to the Abbos as they call em,

:eek:

First of all, only scumbags use that term and their views and comments shouldn't represent the rest of us.

I grew up with many Koori's (Indigenous people from Victoria) and have a great respect for their culture and for them in general. Yes, there are a lot of issues that they face today, because of terrible treatment from previous governments, etc. But to state that most of us are racist against them is a gross misrepresentation of the Australian public, and really is very untrue. I also believe that your comment that we are blind to our racism is also untrue- many of us are well aware that there are a minority of people who are racist towards them. Unfortunately many of us feel powerless to improve things in the communities and to battle systems that have been entrenched from previous generations, and maybe foreigners view this as being racist?

And to answer the OP question- yes there are many indigenous people in politics on a State and local level. I always vote for the candidate with the best policies regardless of their looks, gender, ethnic background- so if an Indigenous person was running and their policies appealed to me, then it goes without saying that I would vote for them. And if the American people are able to do the same, then I see no reason why we wouldn't.

dSTAR

I know where you are coming from Missy. It could be in no small part due to the fact that I have had an ongoing relationship with a Koori girl for the past five years who works with disadvantaged kids in West Heidelberg and is quite militant in her views. As a result I have been given a front line view of the types of struggles that Koori kids face on a daily basis and let me tell you it ain't pretty. The covert prejudice that they have to deal with is just the tip of the iceberg.

BarryCreed

+1

I take offence to the term "abo" used in this thread..

should this type of vocab be reported?

Mrs OBumble

wordcount wrote: »

nO even the msot pleseant and liberal Aussies have blind spot when it comes to how rascist they are in relatiion to the Abbos as they call em,

Now lads, before you all get too self-righteous, to quote this week's Galway Advertiser:

"Now, isn't it high time we had a Traveller Taoiseach".
http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/section/22/6

I know some Irish people who think that inward migration to Ireland is a good thing, and that the presence of Polish, Nigerian etc people has made the country a better place. But even these relatively enlightened types don't get it when it comes to the way Traveller people are treated.

Granted, Travellers don't always behave in ways that are appropriate. Ditto Australian Aboriginal people, or Maori in New Zealand. But this isn't surprising when you look at how society works against 'em, and has done for generations. And just because "they" don't behave the way "we" would like 'em to is no reason for "we" to behave badly ourselves.

Food for though, aye.

BarryCreed

if they were good enough for the job , yeah, I would vote for a traveller. They can't be any worse than the thieves currently in Dail Eireann.
Plus, I think travellers are far better off than most aboriginals(????)

how many aborigines did you ever see driving brand new Land Rovers around Oz? I'm sure there's a few but I didn't see any (in the cities anyways...)

watna

BarryCreed wrote: »

+1

I take offence to the term "abo" used in this thread..

should this type of vocab be reported?

If it was used in a different way, then yes, I'd have a problem with it. In the context it was used I don't. The poster stated some people used that term to portray prejudice. He did not use that term himself.

I will be watching this thread carefully though.

wordcount

watna wrote: »

If it was used in a different way, then yes, I'd have a problem with it. In the context it was used I don't. The poster stated some people used that term to portray prejudice. He did not use that term himself.

I will be watching this thread carefully though.

Fair intrepretation.

I spent 2 years in Aus, its a personal observation. The Aussis I knew there were great people, but by and large they did seem to blindly criticise the aboriginals. The main two were "look what they are given" and "they dont want to work"

Some peope love to get on their Joe Duffy caller esque santamonious rant without reading or understanding something called context

wordcount

BarryCreed wrote: »

if they were good enough for the job , yeah, I would vote for a traveller. They can't be any worse than the thieves currently in Dail Eireann.
Plus, I think travellers are far better off than most aboriginals(????)

how many aborigines did you ever see driving brand new Land Rovers around Oz? I'm sure there's a few but I didn't see any (in the cities anyways...)

Not sure what point you are making. Travellers are not intitled to drive what ever the hellthey want?

Where the offence hating mob gone?

wordcount

BarryCreed wrote: »

+1

I take offence to the term "abo" used in this thread..

should this type of vocab be reported?

Do you understand a word called "context"? seriously though do you? Maybe you could inform ur self of what that means before you make your fake shocked Jow duffy caller esque remark.

missannik

wordcount wrote: »

I spent 2 years in Aus, its a personal observation. The Aussis I knew there were great people, but by and large they did seem to blindly criticise the aboriginals. The main two were "look what they are given" and "they dont want to work"

So the "context" that myself and others obviously didn't understand is that you're in my country for a whole of 5 minutes and have met a handful of people with such views so you are allowed to make sweeping generalisations about the Australian public? Get your head out of your arse!

dSTAR

I think most of the custodians of this land would take exception to this derogatory term and would prefer to use the term 'black fella' if white Australians can be bothered referring to them with their traditional titles.

wordcount

missannik wrote: »

So the "context" that myself and others obviously didn't understand is that you're in my country for a whole of 5 minutes and have met a handful of people with such views so you are allowed to make sweeping generalisations about the Australian public? Get your head out of your arse!

I am giving my personal observations. I am not claiming it to be a factual representation of aussi opinion. And two years is a little more than five minutes by the way. The actual question kind of asked for a generalised opinion if you are to think about it for more than a second.


And by the way you ARE STILL NOT GETTING THE MEANING OF THE WORD CONTEXT.

So the "context" that myself and others obviously didn't understand is that you're in my country for a whole of 5 minutes and have met a handful of people with such views so you are allowed to make sweeping generalisations about the Australian public? Get your head out of your arse

The context I used the word in, was in describing how Aussis I know who were decent liberal caring people 99% of the time, would call aboriginals "abbos" without even thinking. Again As you see I am using that word again but in a specific context. Do you understand?

The overall point I have and yes it is a generalisation, is that there is ingrained deap seated rascicm against these people, and I dont think the Aussi people I know can really see how bad it is. (generalisation I know but a personal observation no more). QED, if I apply this generalsiation to wider Aussi society the answer to the question is NO. Also I knew people from small towns, people from Darwin, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, POrt Aladade, and in general there was a wide spectrum of people I think. But obviously I am not claiming to have a diffinitive opinion here, just a observation. Feel free to disagree with the substantive point, but do not lecture me abouting using the word "abbo" without bothering to understand the context of how I was using the word.

wordcount

dSTAR wrote: »

I think most of the custodians of this land would take exception to this derogatory term and would prefer to use the term 'black fella' if white Australians can be bothered referring to them with their traditional titles.

Yes they would take exception to the term "abbo" and they would be right to. Do you really think they would rather be termed "blackk fella?" What about a woman what would she rather be termed?

I dont know why but your remarks sound so paternalistic and patronising towards these people. I know you are trying to be ultra policially correct with your "custodians of this land" etc.

wordcount

missannik wrote: »

is that you're in my country for a whole of 5 minutes

Is it really your country though is it?

missannik

Word Count it might be useful to realise who you are talking to. I am AUSTRALIAN! So yes, it is my country and you are talking about my people. I would never go to Ireland and make claims about the general public based on the few Irish people that I have met over the years- I think that it is common sense to assume that people would be offended if I did such. You can hardly blame me to consider your 2 years here as the equivalent of 5 minutes, in comparison to how long I've lived here. And I really couldn't care less about your use of "context," fact is you made a sweeping generalisation about a population where it isn't your place to do so and you brought up a term which conjures up negativitity. There was never going to be a happy ending after your comments. You're entitled to your view, you can say it however you bloody well like, I just think its below the belt of both parties concerned.

Is there racism against Indigenous Australians? That's undeniable. But are the majority of Australians racist towards them? I don't believe so. I think that it is encouraging that there has been the implementation of Reconciliation week, Naidoc week and National Sorry Day, amongst others, and also the recognition of Native Title rights. And whilst all of that looks good on paper, I don't deny that there is still so much that needs to be done to improve matters. Hopefully having the PM apologise for all the pain and hurt caused to the stolen generation earlier this year will mean that things can and will improve.

I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that dStar was being sarcastic.

wordcount

missannik wrote: »

Word Count it might be useful to realise who you are talking to. I am AUSTRALIAN! So yes, it is my country and you are talking about my people. I would never go to Ireland and make claims about the general public based on the few Irish people that I have met over the years- I think that it is common sense to assume that people would be offended if I did such. You can hardly blame me to consider your 2 years here as the equivalent of 5 minutes, in comparison to how long I've lived here. And I really couldn't care less about your use of "context," fact is you made a sweeping generalisation about a population where it isn't your place to do so and you brought up a term which conjures up negativitity. There was never going to be a happy ending after your comments. You're entitled to your view, you can say it however you bloody well like, I just think its below the belt of both parties concerned.

Is there racism against Indigenous Australians? That's undeniable. But are the majority of Australians racist towards them? I don't believe so. I think that it is encouraging that there has been the implementation of Reconciliation week, Naidoc week and National Sorry Day, amongst others, and also the recognition of Native Title rights. And whilst all of that looks good on paper, I don't deny that there is still so much that needs to be done to improve matters. Hopefully having the PM apologise for all the pain and hurt caused to the stolen generation earlier this year will mean that things can and will improve.

I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that dStar was being sarcastic.

First of all, only scumbags use that term and their views and comments shouldn't represent the rest of us.

Again your missing the idea lf context and going off on a rant.


see above quote from you. "Only scumbags use that term". Now I never used that term to refelct my opinions I used to describe how many australiams I know refer to aboriginals as.

Your county? I am afraid it belongs to the aboriginals, your no more than a tenant.

What can I say, yes my opinion of white australians was a generalisation, I willing to accept that. I am not willing to accept being castigated by people who will jump on a politically correct band wagon without first reading what I had actually said in terms of the context of the word ABBo.

I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that dStar was being sarcastic.

Maybe

missannik

Ahhh, well my friend it is you who has misunderstood. I was referring to the Aussies who use that word. They are scum. But that still doesn't justify you bringing up that word in this discussion. You know that the Indigenous people don't like to be referred to that, and yet you raised it, hiding it under the guise that other people have said it.

wordcount

missannik wrote: »

Ahhh, well my friend it is you who has misunderstood. I was referring to the Aussies who use that word. They are scum. But that still doesn't justify you bringing up that word in this discussion. You know that the Indigenous people don't like to be referred to that, and yet you raised it, hiding it under the guise that other people have said it.

Dont you see if an Aussi was to use that word in the same context as I did then it would be fine for him or her to use the word.

It is when the word is used as a term of dirision or in a racist way or context then its offencive. If I am using the word "Abbo" contextually to describe the words or views of others then this is not rascist.

I am telling you that I have heard Australians calling Aboriginals "abbos" on many ocasions. That is a fact. I do not condone or agree with this term. I am simply pointing out an observation.

I think I am justified bringin up that word in this discussion because the question asked would there be an aborigninal PM in Australia. I was making the point that in my opinion even what I would call liberal Australians have a blind spot when it comes to Aboriginals. I mention that the same people use the word "Abbos" as an example of this rascist blind spot.

Now if you cannot understand this very simple distinction there is nothing more I can say to you.

wordcount

I grew up with many Koori's (Indigenous people from Victoria) and have a great respect for their culture and for them in general.

Would you like a gold star for that? So what!

dSTAR

wordcount wrote: »

Yes they would take exception to the term "abbo" and they would be right to. Do you really think they would rather be termed "blackk fella?" What about a woman what would she rather be termed?

I dont know why but your remarks sound so paternalistic and patronising towards these people. I know you are trying to be ultra policially correct with your "custodians of this land" etc.

I think 'black fella' is a term they probably dubbed themselves in much the same way that blacks in America have re-appropriated a certain word that if a white person were to say to the wrong person would probably result in actual physical bodily harm.

Maybe I am being a little PC with certain terms (could be due to certain relationships I have with indigenous friends) but seeing what white Europeans have done to the original inhabitants and are still doing makes me fuken sick.

You should probably change your name from wordcount to wordplay because you come here to deliberately troll and flame and then lamely attempt to employ weasel words to justify your own use of racist terms.

wordcount wrote:

It is when the word is used as a term of dirision or in a racist way or context then its offencive. If I am using the word "Abbo" contextually to describe the words or views of others then this is not rascist.

watna

Wordcount.... calm down and behave.

If this thread continues the way it is without a reasonable debate I will lock it. I'm all up for a discussion but this is a friendly forum, it posters cannot get there views across without riling up a huge majority of the other posters than it is not a reasonable debate.

Comments like those I have quoted for are not called for and are completely unconstructive and not conducive to a proper debate. I will not warn again on the matter and I do not want the thread pulled off topic with a lot of moderator warnings and responses to those warnings. As I said I am watching this thread carefully (that means all posters) and will lock it if necessary.

wordcount wrote: »

Do you understand a word called "context"? seriously though do you? Maybe you could inform ur self of what that means before you make your fake shocked Jow duffy caller esque remark.

wordcount wrote: »

Is it really your country though is it?

wordcount wrote: »

Would you like a gold star for that? So what!