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To convert or not to convert??? How do you know?
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04-11-2008 7:36pm#1
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Obviously too much watching the media and too little reading unbiased booksoh god why would anyone
stonings
women no rights
my brain hurts too much when i think about it im sorry seems ludicrous
You're right- it was a pretty stupid prediction for that dude to make- not in that he may/may not be right, but for the fact that he was so pompous as to believe that he knows better than me in how I choose to live my life. But really, I wouldn't give his stupidity too much thought- let him delude himself with his own self importanceThat's the stupidest thing you could say to somebody. It's like me waffling my views and saying, I'll give you twelve months to think about it and revert to Islam or else I'm right and you're wrong!!0 -
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Sorry didn't read the whole thread but here's my take on your question.
I think you need to first get yourself completely clear about the concept of islam and understand it properly. The concept that there's only one god and Mohammed is his messenger. And then understand the whole concept of the point of life in Islam. These are the core understandings of Islam.
There's not much to it but if you really want to understand it, you'll find there's a lot to understand. From the whole scientific approach to life and the universe to the more deep theological ideas from our existence to the illusion of matter and materialism to the God himself.
Once you start to get a better understanding of the ideas and concept of Islam you'll start to notice its the most straightforward religion in the whole world. Infact you'll realise its not a religion at all. Its just the way of life that will keep you the most out of trouble for your own good! Its a set of rules, its a guidebook to this universe (as mentioned in the Quran if you can find the right verse!).
This is all you need to know about Islam. Don't get distracted by all the worldly worries of women rights, child custody, jihad, circumcision etc. Cuz you really don't have to worry about all that once you can truly establish your existence. You'll never know when to convert. You'll just know that you've converted.
Now if you feel my words are little more than vague ramblings, here to go a little deeper for you to ponder over:
Islam is the set of rules that if truly followed by everyone on this planet, there would be no wars, no killing, no injustice or evil. Everyone will be equally rich and happy while we could together explore unlimited space both inside and outside forever.
Every rule from not consuming alcohol to giving obligatory zakat (charity) to free interest banking.
If every person in the world gave zakat every year like in the islamic way, there would be no poverty in Africa, there would be no poverty in the whole world. This is the easiest way to make poverty history only if Bono and Geldof would have come across it.
If all banks in the world would abolish the interest banking system and would shift to the "islamic" non interest banking system, we wouldn't be seeing this economic crisis. Countries wouldn't be in major debt and again there would be a lot more money and wealth among people that everyone could live happily.
People blame religion for all the violence and killing in the world. I blame people's lack of religion and faith the cause of all violence and killing in the world. Religion is what keeps people away from causing violence, injustice and evil. Religion is what binds people to their true purpose of this life.
Islam speaks more about these world issues than any other religion you'll come across. Islam is also the religion that makes the most scientific and factual sense. Everything form the Big bang (mentioned in the Quran) to how Iron came from the skies and sank to the bottom of the earth (as mentioned in the Quran and if you find out this is a very accurate description of the formation of earth and how Iron sank into the core of the planet creating the earth's magnetic field) to how embryos develop in the human uterus to things like positive thing, the "law of attraction" thing, psychology of men and women and many many other things. Its all in the Quran if you can find the right verses.
Only if you can open your mind's eye and look around. Not getting blinded by the shimmering bright city lights which block out the reality in front of you. Reality many people overlook and get indulged in believing what they see is all that is real rejecting God, whereas nothing in this world can truly be stated as real. All they can reject is models of God but not God itself. God is something that can neither be fully understood or explained. Neither can God be proved through science as our scientific knowledge is only confined to our universe and God doesn't belong to our universe but the universe belongs to God.
Think of God as being the ultimate power/force outside of the universe that caused the creation of the Big Bang where all the matter in this whole universe was created from nothing (Just like God mentions in the Quran, both about the big band and how he can create something from nothing in an instant). All the laws of physics were created the instant after the big bang which led to the formation of the universe the way it is right now. So if we try to find a proof of God by scientific means, our science can only take us as far back as the instant after the Big Bang when the rules of physics were formed. And if you go a little deeper into the physics itself, Physics is just the name we've given to all the rules and equations the universe functions by. Laplace's Demon explains it quite well actually though i believe he came very close to getting it right but didn't quite go any further with it.
This is what Laplace's Demon suggests:
"We may regard the present state of the universe as the effect of its past and the cause of its future. An intellect which at a certain moment would know all forces that set nature in motion, and all positions of all items of which nature is composed, if this intellect were also vast enough to submit these data to analysis, it would embrace in a single formula the movements of the greatest bodies of the universe and those of the tiniest atom; for such an intellect nothing would be uncertain and the future just like the past would be present before its eyes"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace's_demon
Well, if you think about how a single formula could govern every action in the universe and that would leave past and present as just an illusion. The way God mentioned in the Quran how he has complete knowledge of you, your past and your future. He can tell what's in your heart even before you can get aware of it yourself. Also how God tells what would happen in the future. It all wouldn't be possible if the universe was random. But its not. Its tightly bound by a set of rules and equations. Who made all these rules and equations? And if someone made all these rules and equations (surely they came from somewhere as they didn't exist before the big bang), then could he not have complete knowledge about how those rules and equations will come into effect. Surely God is the all knowing (wasn't it mentioned in the quran?).
So you see how everything starts to make sense when you see things (like science) from the way mentioned in the Quran. Everything fits in together perfects and thats cuz everything is perfect (as mentioned in the quran). The universe and everything in it is not random. It can't be random cuz if it were the universe couldn't be able to sustain itself. God sustains the universe and everything in it (as mentioned in the quran).
And this is how you prove God through science and religion.
And i could go on about this all day!
To end. Its very easy to get carried away by all these worldly worries nit picking on issues that wouldn't directly concern you, by majoring on minor things. This will only distract you from your cause. Understand and believe in the cause, the rest will happen itself. All you've got to do is believe. All matter is nothing but an illusion and it blurs out the reality. There's a very good quote in the Quran where God says the non-believers have been made deaf, dumb and blind by God and they'll never be able to seek the truth.
This is very true with most of the world if you see. This is what happens when you indulge yourself in matter. In the materialism of the world. You'll get blinded by it and you'll not be able to see the true reality. God takes away the light from the people who do not believe (a verse in the quran).
People say the quran is not comprehensible or its just a book full of metaphors. God has stated he made the quran easy to read and understand. Its all upto how you go about reading and understanding it. You can see the true light or you can get blinded by the bright city lights!!
Here are a couple of books i'll highly recommend you read:
http://us2.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/998/THE_QUR’AN_LEADS_THE_WAY_TO_SCIENCE
http://us2.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/951/TAKING_THE_QUR’AN_AS_A_GUIDE
http://us2.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/993/THE_OTHER_NAME_FOR_ILLUSION:MATTER
You can download the books as pdf for free from the links and i highly recommend you to read them in your pursuit of truth.
Also recommend you to read his other books to, they're all very enlightening.
Good Luck!
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af_thefragile wrote: »
There's not much to it but if you really want to understand it, you'll find there's a lot to understand.
I love your thinking here, "not much....but, there's a lot to understand which is it ?af_thefragile wrote: »
This is all you need to know about Islam. Don't get distracted by all the worldly worries of women rights, child custody, jihad, circumcision etc. Cuz you really don't have to worry about all that once you can truly establish your existence. You'll never know when to convert. You'll just know that you've converted.
Your right ! Why the hell do people get so distracted with things like womens rights, child custody and jihad. Leave that to god I say :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Are you for real ??af_thefragile wrote: »
Islam is the set of rules that if truly followed by everyone on this planet, there would be no wars, no killing, no injustice or evil. Everyone will be equally rich and happy while we could together explore unlimited space both inside and outside forever.
But then your logic makes sence:"if truly followed by everyone"
And there was me thinking the world was not only for muslims , stupid me :rolleyes:
Is that not the whole reason of conflict, people do NOT agree with each other on every point. The way to resolve conflict is not to ensure everyone converts to the same religion but to foster an understanding of respect for difference.
And you also speak of Islam as if its one big happy family, which version of Islam would enable us to to live with "no wars, no killing, no injustice or evil"
-sunni ?
-shia?
-Wahhabism ?
-Sufism ?
If all of these forms cant even live in peace with each other and they all clam to follow Islam, what hope does the world have ?
Or are they getting distracted by worldly worries !!!
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I don't remember who it was but i once herd someone say "Islam is the best religion in the world and muslims are the worst people".
Pretty strong statement but makes a little sense if you look around. Surely i've met many muslims who're amazing people with a great knowledge of things. But i have to say i've met loads of non-muslims who were a lot well mannered than muslims. That say i've seen lots of ill mannered non-muslims too. Guess you'll find all kinds of people everywhere!
But my point is in meeting and hanging around with other muslim people like the person suggested, you'll come across a wide range of muslims and i just wanted to tell you to not base your opinions about muslims based on a very narrow, handful of muslims cuz there are some terrible muslims out there. I think its best to find the one best muslim you can find out there, the nicest, most honest and the most well mannered muslim cuz he'll be the true muslim which you can base you concept of Islam on. Its gonna be a hard find.
And also a lot of things what muslims do are very culturally based. You'll find a great difference between the Arab muslims and a Pakistani muslim or something and that cuz of the difference in cultures so try to keep that in mind and make the distinction between what's culture and what's religion.
And yes indeed its a very big decision you're thinking of making there. Thats why i insisted you to think for yourself. Don't let other people's opinions distract you. A lot of people will make a lot of blatant accusitions and will try to scare you but then again, just think for yourself. God will guide you to the right path, whether thats Islam or something else!
And also remember there's no compulsion in Islam. If you decide of accepting Islam to try it out and then if you decide you don't like it, you can always change your ways. Don't believe in all those "you will be beheaded if you decide to leave" stuff. It doesn't apply to you. You have your will to do what you want and we humans have no right over your decisions as long as they don't harm anyone.
Though i'll have to say it again. You can't become a muslim till you truly believe in the one God and Mohammed to be his messenger. Faith is the 1st fundamental pillar of Islam and without faith you won't be considered a muslim by God according to Islam. You can lie or pretend to humans, you can lie or pretend to yourself but you can't lie or pretend to God.
Well, for now don't worry about that too much. As i just said, think for yourself and you'll be guided. Do your research. Don't just blindly believe what people say to you whether its a muslim or a non muslim. Its your life and only you can decide which way you wanna take it.
If you have your doubts about Islam, don't ever feel forced into converting. Wait till you're absolutely sure that you're a muslim. When will you feel sure about that? Thats when you'll truly start to believe in the one God and Mohammed as his messenger. That is all you need to do to call yourself a muslim. Its that easy. You don't need to change anything, you can keep your name, you can keep your job and your lifestyle (maybe with some alterations) but its not a big change. As i said most of what you see in the muslim world is a cultural thing, not a religious thing.
So to end, i'll say it again, do your research and do as much research as you can. Don't just blindly follow and believe. Its your life and yes its a big decision but to give you something to think about again, if you believe in an afterlife, then you'll begin to notice (probably notice more as you dig deeper into the belief) that this life is worth so little, all the things and associations in this world you make start to become so pointless and meaningless. Think of our place on this world. The 70odd years we're given to live on this planet. Our 70 odd years compared to the 14 or so billion years of existence of the universe (sorry to bring back the universe but i've always had a great interest in physics and astronomy!). Our 36k mile planet nothing more than a spec of dust in a more than 14 billion light years wide universe. How insignificant the loop of time and space of existence we've been given is compared to the wide universe. Can we say we know everything? Can we say what we do in this world of ours really matter? A world that someday is bound to perish but either a meteor or if not by our very sun itself when it burns no. There is no constant in this universe. Everything that is formed is bound to perish someday and so are we.
If you believe there's more to our existence than these 70 odd years we spend on this insignificant plant then you'll realise how insignificant all those pleasure decisions of yours were. How out of all the millions of decisions you made in your 70 odd years only a handful really matter. If you believe there's more to our existence than a pointless 70 years on a pointless planet, then you'll notice the scale of the decision you're gonna make and how everything else starts to become smaller and insignificant.
If you believe we're creatures of dust to be born of and perish as an insignificant aspect of this universe, then no decision you make is gonna make any significance in front of the vast dust cloud which the universe.
Just think what would happen after you perish. What would it be like. Both with an afterlife and without one...
A lot of people will use what i've said to say religion is a figment of human imagination. I say we're all here for a reason. The universe is not random. Every single electron and spec of quark and Lepton is there for a reason. Look it up. In this universe nothing goes to waste or is of no purpose or value. Neither are we.
But then just think for yourself and believe what feels right to you...
woah, another gigiantic post, wasn't meant to be that big... I keep getting carried away a lot!!
Well, it should keep someone busy hopefully!
Oh, and if you or anyone of you wanna tell me, abuse me, accuse me, or just ask me anything, feel free to PM me. I'm not the best person but i'll see how i can help ye!0 -
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