Grat Payment?

enda50

Any one have an official date for the payment of gratuity this year?????

or even an idea of when?
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

minidazzler

Start of December, but there may be something that stops a helluva lot of people getting paid it. If what i hear is correct!!!

In my opinion

minidazzler wrote: »

but there may be something that stops a helluva lot of people getting paid it.

Nobody who joined on after 1Nov 07 gets anything. Ref letter of last week from D Res. . They can claim what they like but Recruits always got the grat, they were told they were getting the reduced amount now its a big NO.

You are so right every excuse is being trotted out and rest assured that people will miss out as the rules appear to change at half time.

ex_infantry man

just don,t polish ur boots,dry clean your number ones or wash em as this is the reason why gratuity is paid turn up like a mank and see what they say

christophicus

ex_infantry man wrote: »

just don,t polish ur boots,dry clean your number ones or wash em as this is the reason why gratuity is paid turn up like a mank and see what they say

Well its not the people that make the decisions that will see it right? So that seems kinda pointless, no ?

Its fair enough that recruits don't get it imo. Privates are still getting it though right ?

concussion

christophicus wrote: »

Its fair enough that recruits don't get it imo. Privates are still getting it though right ?

Of course recruits should get a gratuity, they put in time just like anyone else.

christophicus

Imo the payment should not be given out till you make private, its just the way I feel it should be done.

martinr5232

For what reason?????????

christophicus

I dunno, I suppose I feel that once you reach Private you have somehow earned it.

martinr5232

So you make a statement but cant back it up with any sort of logic:rolleyes:

In my experiance a recruit is most definitly entitled to grat sometimes more so than a two or three star pte.

christophicus

martinr5232 wrote: »

So you make a statement but cant back it up with any sort of logic:rolleyes:

I did say imo, which means "in my oppinion", I am entitled to that, right ? I just see it ( the recruit stage ) as something you have to go through, and once you are done with it , then you should become eligible for the grat ( some form of rights of passage if you will :P ). I am in no way saying that recruits do not put in the same amount of effort as the private * btw .

martinr5232

Two and three star training is something you have to go through.

So how about they only give grat to NCOs and Officers.

That would be fair.

But im afraid that would be all that would be left parading is NCOs and Officers why should one rank get it and not the other.

Do you actually know why Gratuity is paid in the first place??

christophicus

Now that you mention it i actually don't believe I have ever been told straight up.

I just presumed it was to try and cover transport to and from the barrecks etc and to try and make some small token donation towards the time that you give up?

martinr5232

Thats exactly what its for any costs you incur getting to and from training bits of kit you have to supply yourself.

So why in your opinion should a recruit not get the same treatment as everyone else there are other ways of them having to earn their right of passage as you call it.

IE not being allowed drink on recruit camp working after the rest are finished unless the rest are on an exercise of coarse .

enda50

but a recruit dose not have to put in the time that the rest would have to, i.e. field days and night parades - after all the criteria is unpaid training!

as for kit, as a recruit your not too sure what to bring on camp other that what is issued and you dont really need anything surplus.

also due to the high drop out rate after recruit camp, dont you think it might act as a bit of an incentive to stay and even if not, wouldn't it be a waste to pay lots of people money for putting in time (that they haven't) for an organisation they haven't though about for the last 4 months and that wont ever see them again

but hey dont get me wrong, i feel its certainly not financially beneficial for any one to be in this organization, compensation is a great word to use for it! But i just dont like the though of having to recruit only 20 people and most of them being there for one year cause the money is good

any who >>>>>>IMO<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

martinr5232

No 1 A recruit should do at least the same amount of time as everyone else if not more.

No 2 The kit that is issued to our recruits is not sufficiant for one week never mind two weeks full time training
Two T shirts one pair of socks, So extra have to be bought at recruits expense.Foot powder,Boot Polish,and other sundry items which a young seventeen year old would not normally have to purchase all have to be bought.

No 3 Dont forget that everyone has to meet the criteria for the grat so no recruit is going to do four months and get grat at the end of the year.

Getting back to my first point im PTN SGT with recruits this year and i will guarentee that the platoon im involved with will most definitly be doing more than the two or three stars.

trellheim

the current position is not "recruits will not get the grat". It's people with < 1 year's service [ from the date of attestation (swearing-in) who do not get the grat.

enda50

They should but do they! no because they dont have uniforms for most of the year, there not sworn in, they have no garda clearance, insurance ect, theres loads of reason why a recruit cant put in the time everyone else dose, being honest where are u going to find 8 feild days for recruits?

The kit that is issued to recruits may be minimal but u can get by on it, and i was just saying, after recruit training you do start to gather stuff because u know what is handy and what you need, before you dont really know so you dont bring much extra. or at least i didn't.

And your third point - exactly if they don't put in the time do they deserve it??? that was my point. i think grat could be used as a tool to get people to put in the time and to keep numbers from dropping off. we all know how sweet it will be in december just need to get that across.

Fair play on the commitment to the recruits BTW..

ldooley

What if you do not meet criteria with respect to the amount of time you put in during the year-no grat payment?

enda50

As far as i have hear so far its all or nothing!!

minidazzler

ldooley wrote: »

What if you do not meet criteria with respect to the amount of time you put in during the year-no grat payment?

yes and rightfully so!!!

In my opinion

I mentioned recruits in my post and I feel I should explain. I meant someone who joined and did their recruit camp this year. A lot of these recruits have done recruit and two star training and even did an exercise. They paraded as required etc etc. Give them their money I say.

It frightens me that RDFRA have been so weak in their negotiating effort that this exit strategy was allowed to be left for the DOD. Recruits always got their grat but not now. Well done RDFRA!!:rolleyes:

minidazzler

In my opinion wrote: »

I mentioned recruits in my post and I feel I should explain. I meant someone who joined and did their recruit camp this year. A lot of these recruits have done recruit and two star training and even did an exercise. They paraded as required etc etc. Give them their money I say.

It frightens me that RDFRA have been so weak in their negotiating effort that this exit strategy was allowed to be left for the DOD. Recruits always got their grat but not now. Well done RDFRA!!:rolleyes:

That is pretty obvious because The recruits who joined in Sept. have no way to fulfill the criteria anyway.

In my opinion

If anybody knows a person who has less than 1 full years service and they are been deprived the gratuity but have ticked every box i.e parades 18 night parades, ARP's, camp etc etc. It is your duty to ensure they take a redress of wrongs against a decision to deprive them of a legitamate payment.

I feel however that no one will qualify as the ARP provision states that this must be fired on an unpaid training day. ARP is not the recruit table, Recruit syllabus contains firing on camp so a person recruited and trained in last 12 months is unlikely to have fired ARP in training year 08!

I'm afraid there may be more heat than light in this debate however I still feel the spirit of the latest D Res document is wrong. Deprive people on conditions not being met but not on length of service. Recruits always got it ergo they should still get it. (Conditions must be met but NO blanket ban)

This is a very important discussion however.

RDFRA what do you say?

minidazzler

The ARP bit is a very good point!!! I wonder what the story there will be?

Local-womanizer

I have done more than enough parades,done my camp,exercise and have been to fields nights more regulary than most or nearly all 2* and 3*s in my coy in the last year but iam not getting the grat, but imo its only E180 and I to the field nights and parades more for the banter than anything else.Its only 1 year Iam missing out on grat but Iam not too upset tbh.

minidazzler

Local-womanizer wrote: »

I have done more than enough parades,done my camp,exercise and have been to fields nights more regulary than most or nearly all 2* and 3*s in my coy in the last year but iam not getting the grat, but imo its only E180 and I to the field nights and parades more for the banter than anything else.Its only 1 year Iam missing out on grat but Iam not too upset tbh.

This attitude could be a problem, you say you just don't care about being shafted on the Grat. Just wait until you get shafted on Wetgear on the ground and similar!!!

In my opinion

Local-womanizer wrote: »

I have done more than enough parades,done my camp,exercise and have been to fields nights more regulary than most or nearly all 2* and 3*s in my coy in the last year but iam not getting the grat, but imo its only E180 and I to the field nights and parades more for the banter than anything else.Its only 1 year Iam missing out on grat but Iam not too upset tbh.

Did you fire your ARP??

Local-womanizer

Did my ARP's.I know that the atiitude could be a problem but for the sake of E180 I personally dont mind missing out on it.I honestly can say I enjoy the experiance as much as the money.

In my opinion

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Did my ARP's.I know that the atiitude could be a problem but for the sake of E180 I personally dont mind missing out on it.I honestly can say I enjoy the experiance as much as the money.

You should get your money full stop.

I need to correct something I suggested earlier. Anybody who did their ARP on camp needs to do an extra field day to cover the ARP. By that I mean if you had to do 6 nights 6 field days and had fired your ARP on camp you need to have done 6 nights and 7 field days

It's unfair that the rules are changing mid stream.

Comments RDFRA please.

Reg'stoy

Sorry guys just surfing around boards and came across this. What is this grat you're talking about is it an Xmas bonus or something, not slagging just woundering.
cheers

concussion

Reg'stoy wrote: »

Sorry guys just surfing around boards and came across this. What is this grat you're talking about is it an Xmas bonus or something, not slagging just woundering.
cheers

Short for gratuity, its an annual payment paid to eligible reservists every year. Its to cover expenses incurred training over the year. You need to attend a certain amount of unpaid training nights, field days and weekends. You also have to fire your annual range practice and attend at least one week of paid training.

Previously you got the grat paid along with your first weeks pay but now thats changed and its paid at the start of December. There has also been a huge crackdown to ensure all the paperwork is completed correctly along with sudden last minute amendments, hence this thread

In my opinion

concussion wrote: »

Short for gratuity, its an annual payment paid to eligible reservists every year. Its to cover expenses incurred training over the year. You need to attend a certain amount of unpaid training nights, field days and weekends. You also have to fire your annual range practice and attend at least one week of paid training.

Previously you got the grat paid along with your first weeks pay but now thats changed and its paid at the start of December. There has also been a huge crackdown to ensure all the paperwork is completed correctly along with sudden last minute amendments, hence this thread

Some would claim its an effort to prevent payment and save a few bob!!

minidazzler

In my opinion wrote: »

Some would claim its an effort to prevent payment and save a few bob!!

I would definitely agree.

Why couldn't they just pay what is owed this year and change the rules next year. I couldn't give a ****e about the money, but there are people who are losing out here because some Paper pusher changed the rules of the game before anyone has a real chance to call them on it!!!

I am about to go into my 8th week of camp this year, Gonna have 2 full weeks of field days done along with the many singular Field days I did. I am not getting paid for this but I don't care about that, I do care about when people are getting shafted though, (I don't think I am but still).

The Dept of Def. really has a few penny pinchers don't they!!!!


Oh and people remember the Days you did do and were paid for must have been part of an Approved course of Instruction, that was also in the 2nd Draft IIRC!!!

concussion

In my opinion wrote: »

Some would claim its an effort to prevent payment and save a few bob!!

The crackdown on the paperwork is to make sure that those who got it in the past don't get it unless they do the time. This has been happening over the course of the year. The last minute thing is the change in min requirements

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

concussion wrote: »

Short for gratuity, its an annual payment paid to eligible reservists every year. Its to cover expenses incurred training over the year. You need to attend a certain amount of unpaid training nights, field days and weekends. You also have to fire your annual range practice and attend at least one week of paid training.

Previously you got the grat paid along with your first weeks pay but now thats changed and its paid at the start of December. There has also been a huge crackdown to ensure all the paperwork is completed correctly along with sudden last minute amendments, hence this thread

I am sure I recieved grats when I have not fired ARPs. Is this a requirement?

concussion

Paul Immense Pony wrote: »

I am sure I recieved grats when I have not fired ARPs. Is this a requirement?

Always been the case. The paperwork was probably fudged to show you had fired. This kind of thing has been happening for years, hence the crackdown.

In my opinion

concussion wrote: »

The crackdown on the paperwork is to make sure that those who got it in the past don't get it unless they do the time. This has been happening over the course of the year. The last minute thing is the change in min requirements

Only pity is that people with serious amounts of time put in are being wronged because it seems things have not been done correctly by PDF.

They are the ones who have been found to be creative in the past with books now they have gone so dutiful that if your name is signed below the line it's almost not going to count.

A change of "360" degrees!!!!!!!!!!;):D

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

concussion wrote: »

Always been the case. The paperwork was probably fudged to show you had fired. This kind of thing has been happening for years, hence the crackdown.

I can guarantee that the crackdown is associated directly with the recession and military spending cutbacks.

I was told that you do not need to do your ARP to recieve grat, or go to camp for that matter.

Local-womanizer

In my opinion wrote: »

You should get your money full stop.

I need to correct something I suggested earlier. Anybody who did their ARP on camp needs to do an extra field day to cover the ARP. By that I mean if you had to do 6 nights 6 field days and had fired your ARP on camp you need to have done 6 nights and 7 field days

It's unfair that the rules are changing mid stream.

Comments RDFRA please.

Yea,donemy ARP on camp and have more than enough nights and field days during the course of the year.

minidazzler

In my opinion wrote: »

Only pity is that people with serious amounts of time put in are being wronged because it seems things have not been done correctly by PDF.

They are the ones who have been found to be creative in the past with books now they have gone so dutiful that if your name is signed below the line it's almost not going to count.

A change of "360" degrees!!!!!!!!!!;):D

It's the DOD screwing people over, not the PDF.

concussion

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Yea,donemy ARP on camp and have more than enough nights and field days during the course of the year.

I don't have the info to hand at the moment but I'm certain you cannot be paid to do your ARP's ie you have to fire on an unpaid field day. Recruits however fire the condensed recruit table during their Mod 2 FTT.

Paul Immense Pony wrote: »

I can guarantee that the crackdown is associated directly with the recession and military spending cutbacks.

I was told that you do not need to do your ARP to recieve grat, or go to camp for that matter.

Simply put, you heard wrong. It was always the case that you had to do a minimum amount of unpaid training, APWT's (annual personal weapon tests - ARP as a term is gone I believe) and full time training.

As for the crackdown on paperwork, that's been happening since the grat increase was announced, long before the cutbacks were announced.

In my opinion

concussion wrote: »

I don't have the info to hand at the moment but I'm certain you cannot be paid to do your ARP's ie you have to fire on an unpaid field day. Recruits however fire the condensed recruit table during their Mod 2 FTT.



Simply put, you heard wrong. It was always the case that you had to do a minimum amount of unpaid training, APWT's (annual personal weapon tests - ARP as a term is gone I believe) and full time training.

As for the crackdown on paperwork, that's been happening since the grat increase was announced, long before the cutbacks were announced.

Showing my age using ARP but you know what ARP is still the term.

In addition I was right first time around regarding ARPs having to be fired on unpaid training.
The regulation states


The Reservist must also have completed his/her “annual range practice” appropriate to the rank.
Sanction for payment of the gratuity, is subject to certification by the appropriate Commanding Officer that a Reservist has completed the attendance and training requirements and completed his/her “annual range practice” appropriate to the rank.
ARP’s are to be conducted during periods of unpaid training


Oh its an awful mess. I'm getting mine anyway!

King Ludvig

I apparently didnt qualify for the grat :mad:

Im a two star, barely missed a parade night in the last year, did my arps, did 2 unpaid weekends, and did 3 weeks in the glen in the summer.

On the sheet im down as attending 12 parade nights. Bull. I just got shafted out of €450. :mad:

minidazzler

Did you sign all the sheets every night? Say it to your Cadre staff. If you are on good terms with them they could be able to help you!!!

concussion

King Ludvig wrote: »

I apparently didnt qualify for the grat :mad:

Im a two star, barely missed a parade night in the last year, did my arps, did 2 unpaid weekends, and did 3 weeks in the glen in the summer.

On the sheet im down as attending 12 parade nights. Bull. I just got shafted out of €450. :mad:

I don't mean to or want to sound harsh about this, but query the issue through your chain of command. Get a solid answer back through your corporals.

EDIT: The minimum requirements to be eligible for gratuity are stated here
http://www.rdfra.ie/news.shtml#6

As you can see there is a requirement for 8 field days or 4 overnights or a combination of them. If you only did 2 overnights you would need to do another 6 field days to qualify.

King Ludvig

concussion wrote: »

I don't mean to or want to sound harsh about this, but query the issue through your chain of command. Get a solid answer back through your corporals.

EDIT: The minimum requirements to be eligible for gratuity are stated here
http://www.rdfra.ie/news.shtml#6

As you can see there is a requirement for 8 field days or 4 overnights or a combination of them. If you only did 2 overnights you would need to do another 6 field days to qualify.

Already did. My CO even talked to me about it. Nothing I can do really, no way of proving I was there.

That link wont work for me. Is that a updated version? The standard changes a hell of a lot :rolleyes:

I attended at least 25 parade nights throughtout the year, my two weekends on top of that bring me up to 29 points/credits or whatever they're called. You need to have 24 to qualify I was told. Im down as only having 16 in total

concussion

King Ludvig wrote: »

Already did. My CO even talked to me about it. Nothing I can do really, no way of proving I was there.

That link wont work for me. Is that a updated version? The standard changes a hell of a lot :rolleyes:

I attended at least 25 parade nights throughtout the year, my two weekends on top of that bring me up to 29 points/credits or whatever they're called. You need to have 24 to qualify I was told. Im down as only having 16 in total

The link works here - go to rdfra.com, go to news and scroll down. Alternatively go to http://www.1bderdf.com and go to News; Archive 2007 or http://www.bebo.com/BlogView.jsp?MemberId=6321073471&BlogId=6415742680.

Were the weekends away overnights? If thats the case then you have 2 x 4 = 8 equivalent training nights, which brings you up to 20. Going to the range should (not certain) count as a field day which brings you up to 21, not the 16 you say you have. If you have indeed got 21, but they told you 16 maybe there's other things they've missed? Just hoping here, for your sake!

trellheim

I attended at least 25 parade nights throughtout the year, my two weekends on top of that bring me up to 29 points/credits or whatever they're called. You need to have 24 to qualify I was told. Im down as only having 16 in total

If you do not get the Grat or are posted non-effective or are denied a course because of attendance, then take a redress. PSO and RDFRA are there to assist you in going through the A7 process, all the way to the Ombudsman if need be.

Did you TOET or attend any meetings or sign out weapons on the dates you supposedly attended but were not marked up ? If so it would have been in the casual issue book and thus you have strong proof of attendance.

Listen to no crap when you're trying to get this sorted.

testicle

Grat has apparently been paid for those who qualified.

Remember the Field Days and Weekends must be unpaid to qualify for the Grat total

concussion

Paid. Bit suspicious that it's 2 weeks early!