Driving ranges

PhilipMarlowe

How come they are so s***?

I'm talking here about the ones that are covered, you hit off a mat out into a field...

The mats are insanely horrible to play off... I like to hit the ball, then take a divot so when I play off these (concrete-like) mats I almost need to see an osteopath to fix my wrists.

The other thing that is concrete-like is the ball.... how bad are they? You might as well nearly hit a lump of rock out there and sometimes the ball is wavering all over the place so what can be learned from that?

The target. I love the way there is often some ridge that prevents you seeing where your shot landed... and mowing a vague 'green' and putting a flag at 150 meters isn't exactly realistic now.... The addition of a relatively realistic green with mounding and bunkering at about mid iron distance would make it way more interesting but of course the extra 10 minutes a day of manual ball-collecting that would be required makes this a crazy suggestion!

These are about the only things a range has control over - the mats, the balls, the target.
Most of the ones I've been to fail miserably on all 3.

I've played off a nice mat that has some give in it.... used a decent range ball, doesn't have to be great, just round and white for starters.... played to a decent target. If I had access to a range that had all of these, I'd go to the range at least weekly. Instead, I avoid them like the plague, maybe in desperation I will go twice a year (use my own balls and collect them myself all other times).
Being cheap with the set-up is costly in the long run.

ShriekingSheet

I fully agree and though I probably practice as much as anyone on here, I pretty much never use the local driving ranges.

The one in Leppardstown has such a ridge that you can't see anything between a PW and a 5 iron land. The balls also leave slivers of their plastic coating on your irons which you need to scrub off.

It just makes having decent facilities at your home club for pracitce even more improtant IMO.

Mister Sifter

It's a great point - and i agree with all three gripes.. Some of them are shocking. I'm reluctant to use them alot of the time because i wonder how much good they are actually doing me. Good for having a swing during weeks you can't get to the course, but for serious practicing they're are crap.

I wish more of them would spend a bit of time in making up some kind of distance key. I.e - a diagram / key in the booth to show how far it is to various points / targets. Even a sign saying 'distances are in yards/ metres' would be great.

I agree with Shriek, if you're serious about practicing, then good facilities are a must.

stockdam

I guess they are for the "masses". A day out pretending that you are playing golf?

It probably boils down to money.

This will sound pompous but it's not meant to be.

The vast majority of players wouldn't know nor care about a good ball. They probably don't know how far they hit the ball. Most like to use only their driver and if they can hit it over the end of the range then they are happy. They would be happy if they hit a 7 iron 180 yards (even if the yardage was "lying").

It's all about getting people in and out quickly. The prices of the buckets are too steep but if they were cheaper then there would be a queue to get a spot.

Yes the mats are too hard - but they have to be otherwise they would probably wear out. Grass isn't an option for volume throughput.

Shortgame practice areas are expensive and time consuming to maintain.

Ok so what could be done?

Well if you want to change things then open your own range.........that's not a good idea as you'll just end up doing what they all do and that's to target the masses.


You could open an "elite" driving range but the prices would be steep. Would it work.....I doubt it. Would you pay say €400 a year for a good facility that you could use free for say two days per week?

I end up learning how to "flick" the ball off the mats as I'm "afraid" of taking a "divot". They are good for fairway woods as I tend to pick the ball off the turf cleanly (I probably should take a small divot though).


At my course, we used to have a great practice area but it was sold for building land.

waterville72

Totally Agree. And the sad thing about Leopardstown is that they actually landscaped the range to look like that. Ive suggested more targets to the manager there about two months ago ..I was talking about a few extra flags here..I mean 100 euro type of thing..but no change as of yet.

Spawell is a much better piece of land. You can see ur ball landing but the bays are poor. However the balls are good.New srixons.
They need to be more inventive with the targets as said above.
This is not rocket science.
A few small inexpensive changes to the targets could make a massive difference in customer satisfaction in both ranges.

PhilipMarlowe

I suspect a lot of them started with a farmer who had a bit of land on the outskirts of town who though he could put it to better use rather than being built by a golfer with a serious practice facility in mind.
An (artificial) green, sloped back to front, with mounds and bunkering could easily be built around the centre of the facility at about 140 to 190 yards so that it would offer a real and decent target to most people from most angles. Put 5 or more flags on it and you can practice most of your irons to it.. it will resemble 85% of the par 3's you are ever likely to encounter.
Add a mat that you can actually strike the ball off and again it caters for a lot of situations.
Build another couple of smaller greens in closer that would encourage more precise wedge play.

The whole experience is so unrealistic that it is so uninteresting to me anyway.

PhilipMarlowe

Of course there would be more labour involved in collecting if they couldn't always drive everywhere but it's hardly a huge factor if it's done early morning.
I'm not suggesting that the range becomes elite either... merely more interesting for everyone. If the guy that goes there a few times a year gets a better experience, he's more likely to return more often, regardless of being a happy gilmore or a scratch golfer.
The costs involved are hardly excessive when compared against the potential return.
They spent as little as possible in a lot of cases and are getting the return they deserve.
We're not talking building USGA greens here and manicured fringes, just something better than the guy mowing in a vague circle around a distant flag that you probably can't see the bottom of anyway because it's beyond a ridge and your ball plugged anyway so you can't really tell the result

WaldenByThoreua

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

The one in Leppardstown has such a ridge that you can't see anything between a PW and a 5 iron land. The balls also leave slivers of their plastic coating on your irons which you need to scrub off.

Recently moved up to the big smoke and as Leopardstown seems to be the nearest driving range to me I ventured out there a few nights ago.

Wasnt impressed with having to clean that crap off my clubs when I came home or not being able to see my balls land.

Another problem, maybe trivial to ye, was that Im used to having an actual solid divider that you cant see through between bays and it annoyed me having none as I felt 'exposed' and couldnt really concentrate. The bays are also set back quite close to the people walking behind and I thought that wass a little disconcerting.

Felt very Americanised with the coffee place upstairs but thats probably just because Im not use to that!

Shop in the back (Golfino?) had a few nice putters and wedges though.....

Theres my rant...

Sionnachster

Good shout... It's amazing what some places consider reasonable. It's the balls that drive me nuts. The 'range' in Celbridge where McGuirks once was, used potatoes as balls. They flew anywhere adn were almost entertaining in themselves observing the slice, hook & backspin shot I perfected with them.

Without harping on about the place, the GUI Academy range at Carton has the grass areas for hitting from, great short range greens, along with the matt bays when weather requires it. A few decent target greens out there but the yardage is all over the place so your point still holds there also. Speaking as a golfer, I'd gladly drive the extra 15-25 minutes to get to a real range with visual rewards. Some people spot what's needed in a recession and invest, I'll gladly put a few quid, maybe even a tenner, into the pot....

stylie

I work in a range and play golf so I will give ye a quick synopsis on why they are so "****"

The rock hard balls discourage theft, for example we put 300 x outs into circulation and they were gone in 6 weeks. We can buy x outs for a fraction of the price the normal range balls cost but they literally walk out the door. We rely on repeat business so we cant accuse the customers of theft and you would not believe the golfer that takes the balls, club members that think taking one or two wont hurt the stock level, well it does.

The plain mats are about 300e a pop, now the concrete floors are a pain and I do recommend putting the mats on a wooden platform. Other types of mats are too expensive. And most golfers that struggle of mats struggle of fairways(the occasionally time they hit them)..

Ranges tend to be on slopes because of that pesky little thing called weather, they have to open everyday of the year so they need the best drainage they can get at low cost, i.e a slope.

Now you could address all these problems and have the perfect mats, with pro v's and flat fairways but the range would have to have membership on top of high gold ball prices and would not be all weather, and would not stay open in Ireland for more than a year.

Mister Sifter

stylie wrote: »

I work in a range and play golf so I will give ye a quick synopsis on why they are so "****"

The rock hard balls discourage theft, for example we put 300 x outs into circulation and they were gone in 6 weeks. We can buy x outs for a fraction of the price the normal range balls cost but they literally walk out the door. We rely on repeat business so we cant accuse the customers of theft and you would not believe the golfer that takes the balls, club members that think taking one or two wont hurt the stock level, well it does.

The plain mats are about 300e a pop, now the concrete floors are a pain and I do recommend putting the mats on a wooden platform. Other types of mats are too expensive. And most golfers that struggle of mats struggle of fairways(the occasionally time they hit them)..

Ranges tend to be on slopes because of that pesky little thing called weather, they have to open everyday of the year so they need the best drainage they can get at low cost, i.e a slope.

Now you could address all these problems and have the perfect mats, with pro v's and flat fairways but the range would have to have membership on top of high gold ball prices and would not be all weather, and would not stay open in Ireland for more than a year.

I don't think any of us expect 'gold' as you say. We're not after pro-v1s, we just want something that doesn't resemble a spud in the basket and a drunk seagull when mid-air. I'd be interested to know the price difference between a basic mat and a decent quality one?

I'm not sure i understand your reasoning for why ranges have hills in them either. i don't mind them bing on a slope, but having big hollows makes it impossible to see where the ball ends up. May as well be hitting them into the sea in the dark sometimes.

stockdam

Thanks Stylie for the honest and good post

PhilipMarlowe

Thanks for the post...

The point about the slop is covered above... an overall slope is fine but ridges that leave results blind is plain lazy. Earth can be moved and land can be drained...

What's the difference in price between the rock hard mat and one thats say 50% better? I hit the ball then the turf when I'm on the course... I can't do that in a range because it plain hurts.

If driving ranges want to cut costs at every available corner, they are also cutting sales at the other end.
I have a range near me, maybe 4 minutes drive away. I have been there once last year and 0 times this year. So they have taken €5 off me in 22+ months.
As I said earlier, if the facilities were improved (not looking for the taj mahal), I'd likely drop at least €2-300 there in the course of a year easily.

A decent mat and a half decent ball for starters.... a better target would make it much more interesting and would surely entice punters to return.

PhilipMarlowe

Also, If they had a decent target with a few flags, it would be a simple yet really nice touch to have a distance from the flags to each bay printed on a plaque on the floor in the bay, much the same way you have distance markers on sprinkler heads at good courses... hardly that difficult or very costly to have them measured once by laser and have a few signs printed up

kingshankly

licksy would it be fair to say you have issues with driving ranges.

stockdam

I'd like a couple of sheep on the range.......a moving target is more fun.

Myksyk

I'm a member of the Dromoland Golf Academy which is very good as ranges go. Mats are electric incorporating a section of mat with a lot of give (grass length fibres). They are opening the grass teeing area of the range next year according to the pro there. You shoot to normal looking greens with bunkers around them. They have a chipping/pitching/bunker green and one for putting. The range is open good hours and very well floodlit at night. Balls are what they are, I've no huge complaints. I've got as lot out of the Academy facilities I have to say.

PhilipMarlowe

That does look like the business alright! Do you think it will catch on?

stockdam

Looks like there are only 7 bays there.


How about this indoor short game one......


http://www.whitepinesgolfdome.com/images/DSC00163.JPG



http://www.whitepinesgolfdome.com/images/DSC00143.JPG



Not really good for long shots - I guess you try to hit the targets but I'd rather see the shape of the shot.

Myksyk

stockdam wrote: »

Looks like there are only 7 bays there.

True but it meets the demand. I've never had to wait for a bay.

stockdam

Ok so it's not a range for the "masses". The prices must be high in order to prevent it being overused or do they have restricted membership.

I can't see them making much money with only 7 bays (I'm not trying to sound negative but at the end of the day it's about making money I guess).

MisterAnarchy

Golf shots are meant to be hit off two surfaces,grass and sand,there are no substitutes.
I'll never go to a driving range ever again,it is bad for your clubs and wrists.

N00b2fitness

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Golf shots are meant to be hit off two surfaces,grass and sand,there are no substitutes.
I'll never go to a driving range ever again,it is bad for your clubs and wrists.

+ several 1's

I'd rather play 3 holes or chip a few balls in my garden tbh. Chipping golf balls from a mat or artificial surface will neither tell you nor give you anything worth bringing to the golf course the next time you are out. You can't really duff a chip from a mat and let's face it, that's probably the most common error people have when chipping or flopping shots around the green.

Mister Sifter

Nah, you can't say driving ranges are useless altogether. For certain standards of player it can be a good way of getting to grips with hitting the ball.

Even sometimes when i have a glaring problem in my game i'll go just to iron it out. Sometimes it's just not possible to get any other kind of practice, particularly at this time of year.

ShriekingSheet

Completely agree with the OP that the standard of ranges is shocking around the Dublin area but all these posts since saying that driving ranges are useless for your game are way off the mark IMO.

Hitting the same club/shot over and over is not productive?
The best players have done this from Bobby Jones to PH. The best golfer in your club probably does it too. It's inadvisable to make this the only way you practice but all good players recognize the value of this kind of practice. If you find yourself inanely beating balls into the ether, it's your fault, not the range's.

Matts hurt your wrists?
This shouldn't be the case. Not to be smart but it's likely you're a little steep into the ball. If you clipped the ball at a more shallow angle you'd spare your wrists.

Rather play holes than go to the range?
Me too - absolutely. But (1) not ideal if you're working on something with your pro, like plane, which you do need to groove a bit with repeat swings as opposed to hitting a different shot every couple of mins on the course. And (2), due to irish weather or if the only time you can practice is after work when it's dark you can't use the course.
I agree though, 80% of the time I find playing a few extra balls around a few holes is a great way to practice

Chipping off matts is not real practice?
Fully agree. Range is purely for 100 yards+ practice IMO.

Matts are not a real substitute for grass in general?
Disagree. I think they're fine for a bit of practice so long as you're not playing little pitches with a SW. Contact with the surface, be it matt or grass, is after the ball and therefore mostly irelevent. The matt will forgive fat shots better and the club does bounce up but you can tell by the sound quite easily.

Balls?
Some are terrible but there's plenty of ranges with okay ones. Spawell, Leppardstown, Stepaside are all fine, if not great. It's understandable why they dont have better ones as per Stylie's post.


Overall I think knowing how to use your practice session and how to benefit from going to the range is key here. I know that Harrington, McGinley and a host of other pros and low amateurs were regulars at the range in spawell over the years. I hate the range. But for me, if those guys do it, that says it all.

stockdam

I'm no expert (on anything) but I do fear that hitting my irons off mats has taught me to flick the ball. I used to hit down and through but now I pick it off cleanly. I've noticed this most with my wedges and am wondering if the mats have taught me bad habits? It's a small point as I still hit them fairly well.

ShriekingSheet

stockdam wrote: »

I'm no expert (on anything) but I do fear that hitting my irons off mats has taught me to flick the ball. I used to hit down and through but now I pick it off cleanly. I've noticed this most with my wedges and am wondering if the mats have taught me bad habits? It's a small point as I still hit them fairly well.

Could well be. My point was that firing 7 irons off a matt is much like grass but I'm really not a fan of hitting wedges off matts.

stockdam

Ok I use a 5, 6 or 7 iron when I'm on the range.....generally a 6 as it tells me if I'm hitting the ball straight or not.


I'd love to find somewhere that I could hits lots of wedges as that's my weakness.

N00b2fitness

Yeah I agree... weakness in your game or not, it's recommended to spend more than 60% of your practice time inside 100 yards anyway, seeing as that's the distance inside which the majority of shots are taken. Leopardstown have a short game practice area at the back of the clubhouse but it's only for chipping and putting.

Sandwich

Surpised at the generally anti-driving range tenor of the thread. Am a big fan myself and really enjoy a couple of visits per week.

Dont like mats though and havent played off them in many years. Used to only hit teed up woods. But then along came the automatic teeing machines. The fake grass around the tee is great - doesnt promote the 'flicking' off the mat syndrome mentioned above, you can hit down on the ball, doesnt jar the wrists etc. I cant fault them at all. I thought most clubs had them now - Leopardstown certainly does.

Agree with the problem of seeing where balls drop, but that only really matters once in a while of you are trying a new club or something. I dont think you really need to see where the ball drops to judge how well you have hit it, and to get a benefit from the practice. Leopardstown is bad like that, Stepaside, down the hill worse. Spawell not bad, and I would call there occasionally when messing with new clubs. The one at the Airport roundabout is not bad at all - perfectly flat. ElmGreen so-so. My favourite used to be the one between Mulhuddart and the N2 - elevated tee bays, and great visibility of the target area with several good sized greed to aim at. The one at the Ward had decent terrain to aim at but havent stopped there in yonks - no auto tees (yet?) and its mats were just so bad it was pitiful.

Dont really see the poor quality balls as much of an issue, you know how far you hit propoer balls anyway and are hitting the balls to work on your swing based on the flight of the ball, and the feel.

Anyone know of other ranges in the general M50 arc ?

Myksyk

I agree with everything Sandwich has said. One shortcoming of driving ranges for me is the fact that they use compressed balls. I would love to be able to use ordinary balls with relaible yardage signs to accurately dial in each club. that would be really useful and something you usually have to find out through slow work on the course.

deko43

Anyone know of other ranges in the general M50 arc ?[/quote]

The new range at Drynam in Swords between M1 and Malahide road is very good. It has good quality mats, automatic tees, some flag and mound type targets and a coffee shop. The auto tees are a bit gimicky but my kids like them...

bigtimecharlie

I've grown tired of driving ranges. They were great when starting off but once I got onto the course and started playing weekly, I found that the driving range balls and matt's were poor.

The range is only suited to tee'd ball's but that set-up will only check your swing as a poor range ball cannot be judged against a ProV1 driven from a proper tee on a proper teeing area.

pagekarl

Totally agree with the OP. Stopped using portmarnock awhile ago and the latest one in that area is no better with thebig hill down the back.... sure ya cant even see where ya hit the ball too!

I use Golfvision now. Its an indoor golf centre. They have courses mainly but there is a driving range option which I find so much better than the real thing cos of the info you get back, i.e. ball trajectory, spin, club head speed, even tells ya when shank the ball :mad:!!! But the thing I find the best is that I can see where the ball ends up distance wise. Good for big hitters to no what ya can actually hit....

Licksy I think you would rather this too by the sounds of it...:D

Sionnachster

What are the rates like at Golfvision for the use of the bay? It sounds like the ideal place to get a solid indication of the length you hit your irons for your own records - assuming it's accuracy is transferrable to the course?

stylie

Im probably going to get flamed but here goes, the players that complain the most about the range I work in (or any range)are the high handicappers...the senior players never complain as they are using the range to work on their swings with the pros..I will not name names but these are very good players with very good teaching pros..

The complaints about balls and mats are all relevant but the cost involved to follow your ideas would make the range fold in a matter of months. The profit margins in a range are not that big,,imagine a range with an active stock 10,000 normal range balls. To keep at that level you have to buy about a 1,000 a month to replace the stolen, worn and lost balls..Now think of the loss rate for a ball with a brand name ? probable double
I have found our range balls on private courses around the county and I also find balls in our range from different ranges from up and down the country, the amount of stealing going on frightening,,the its only one ball mentality kills the stock level..and stops ranges getting better balls...as I have stated its cheaper to buy decent x-outs or brand name range balls than it is to buy a standard range ball but they would be stolen in a matter of weeks.
Another example, we introduced a different type of rubber mat tee recently, bought 50, 20 gone in a month had to reorder 2dozen...taken by regular golfers that didnt have the tee and their clubs range...thats what we have to deal with.

Can I make a suggestion that people dont use ranges to record their length with various clubs, ive played enough golf with guys that 'know' their yardage so well that when they dump one in the water is everyone else's fault but their own short comings..

Before ye all vent and gripe think a little about the ranges position and dont be so narrow minded..

stockdam

Well you won't get flamed by me as I understand.

Driving ranges are businesses and the most important thing is to make money.

I'd suggest that quite a few people who open driving ranges start off with good intentions but then as you said they have to deal with blatant stealing.

It's the same with restaurants - you start off wanting to offer good food but then the "masses" hate it so you end up serving chips with everything.

However "we" can make suggestions and some seem good ideas. Putting a driving range on a slope that stops you seeing where the ball lands is a bit silly and this has little to do with compromises.

stylie

Stockdam I hate the slopes as much as the next guy, but after running a range on my own for a winter I can see very little alternative. The drainage by the slope and the high ground above is not to be underestimated. The ball picking machinery compacts the soil to much to the point where you would have to own your own aeration equipment if you had an entierly flat range..we have about 1000 square meters that has to be picked by hand below the slope.
Now I know there are ranges with extreme slopes and I hope they are major issue here.

stockdam

No I'm thinking of one range in particular where there's a slope about 100 yards out and anything over that can't be see landing.

The range I go to (in Belfast) has a gentle slope downwards and I can see how close my ball lands to the target. I can then gauge if my shots are consistant.

I don't mind slopes but I prefer to see where the ball lands - targets at 100 yards 150 yards and say 180 yards are great if you can see the ball landing.......blind spots on the range are ok but not all the range over 100 yards.

slumped

was up at the GUI academy recently and noticed they have new flags on the range which appear to glow in the dark - or a least are reflective of light when the floodlights come on.

spoke to one of the pros there who was saying that they are building mounds and improving the targets over the winter.

hopefully that'll make a big difference.

Mister Sifter

The academy is a great example of having a good product and building on it. The new balls up there are great (even if they are yellow!) and little improvements seem to be being made all the time. It's a joy to use.

SalthillGuy

We have new mats at our club.
They have slots on both site where a tee can be inserted.
I agree that the standard of mats at most driving ranges are terrible, but what can they do.
Most driving ranges are for people who want a bit of exercise during the winter. Hitting a ball gives them that.
For those who want real practise, most clubs have a range where you can hit off the turf.

Sandwich

Surprised anyone is still buying mats for ranges at all. Even if you arent installing the auto teeing systems, the 'brush' stuff that they use is great for hitting any shots off the deck without the hard mat problem.

pagekarl

Sionnachster wrote: »

What are the rates like at Golfvision for the use of the bay? It sounds like the ideal place to get a solid indication of the length you hit your irons for your own records - assuming it's accuracy is transferrable to the course?

Yeah its great, was up in golfvision last nite playing in a winter 2ball scramble league! we went round the back nine of sheshan one under!:eek: sayin that wind conditions etc where switched off first night of the league and all that!

As for treating it like a drving range...well its top notch, members can send data and videos of there swing home to look at on your home comp!

Rates are good but deals on all times so check out www.golfvision.ie for actual rates. Was €15 for 2hours last nite so not bad at all considerin range costs 10er for 30ish mins and ya get no feed back! They have all the latest drivers to too test out whilst on range!!

slumped

pagekarl wrote: »

Yeah its great, was up in golfvision last nite playing in a winter 2ball scramble league! we went round the back nine of sheshan one under!:eek: sayin that wind conditions etc where switched off first night of the league and all that!

As for treating it like a drving range...well its top notch, members can send data and videos of there swing home to look at on your home comp!

Rates are good but deals on all times so check out www.golfvision.ie for actual rates. Was €15 for 2hours last nite so not bad at all considerin range costs 10er for 30ish mins and ya get no feed back! They have all the latest drivers to too test out whilst on range!!

Golfvision is great craic - but is no substitute for the real thing.

A good night out for a bunch of lads or ladies - get some pizza in and away you go!!

pagekarl

Ah will never substitute the real thing alright but in these dark nights and wet weekends its a close second.....
Better than the range is all Im sayin for the technical info and data you get back on your game....

slumped

pagekarl wrote: »

Ah will never substitute the real thing alright but in these dark nights and wet weekends its a close second.....
Better than the range is all Im sayin for the technical info and data you get back on your game....

the info you get back is good - but really only useful to those who know how to alter their swing, position etc to influence it.

pagekarl

Yeah and No!! There is a pro there who helps ppl out and the lads are very good at showing ppl what the stats and info means and how to use it to correct things....And most ppl who go to the range are tryin to get better in some way no? So can only help if your gettin more info and seein where the ball lands spin speed etc...

Also they have a load of great courses for those who just wanna play so you have that option too ya know?

Different strokes for different folks I suppose!

Sionnachster

pagekarl wrote: »

Yeah and No!! There is a pro there who helps ppl out and the lads are very good at showing ppl what the stats and info means and how to use it to correct things....And most ppl who go to the range are tryin to get better in some way no? So can only help if your gettin more info and seein where the ball lands spin speed etc...

I've been thinking about this for a while and am definitely going to head up now. I was just going to book a bay on my own for a couple of hours but it adds up. How do you get into those winter leagues etc, do you need groups? Is it worth joining up?

zillmere

+1 for golfvision.

I was up there on Tuesday playing the 2 ball it is great fun.

The driving range is €25 for an hour or €15 for half.

According to the website the device is 100% accurate is is what is used by the PGA and clubmakers for testing new clubs.

It is 1 million times better than the range because instead of thinking you are doing this or that wrong, you can actually see what you are doing wrong. As stated you can get your stats and video sent to you as well.

The guys there are really nice and are happy to have a chat & give a bit of advice.

zillmere

Sionnachster wrote: »

How do you get into those winter leagues etc, do you need groups? Is it worth joining up?

No, I went there on my own and got paired up with a guy. Not sure when registration closes but I am sure there would be a place or two available.