Leaglise Cannabis Ireland v. W.I.T Law Society

Plugged In

On the 12th of November, Pluggedin.ie and WIT are proud to present
Legalise Cannabis Ireland v W.I.T law society
in a debate about our current weed laws.
It takes place at 19:30 at the Gallery in the W.I.T

RTE and TV3 and other national and local media are going to cover the event and there are interesting guest speakers and TDs attending.

This is a very interesting topic which has had much debate over the years and on the 12th all the speakers will argue over whether our laws regarding cannabis should be changed.

It will be an interesting night and I would encourage everyboby in the W.I.T to try and make it down.

bigjigwig77

Wednesday week, eh?

Might drop in alright, should be interesting to see, especially if some TD's (people who can possibly do something about the law, one way or another) turn up.

Plugged In

Legalise Cannabis Ireland v W.I.T Law Society
Wednesday 12th of November
7:30 The Gallery W.I.T (Cork Road Campus)

“This house believes that Cannabis should be made legal in this state”

W.I.T and www.pluggedin.ie are proud to present a debate which so many Irish citizens have strong opinions on. This night will see two teams of three debating the various arguments. The debate will be judged by a panel of three people consisting of High Court Judge, Tom Teeghan; Ex-Minister for Finance, Alan Dukes and also a legal representative from Waterford.

For years this debate has been burning on a world wide scale, between members from every corner of society. During this time, governments in countries such as The Netherlands, Canada, The U.K. and Belgium have taken steps toward a more liberalised view of cannabis by either totally decriminalising possession of the drug, or declassifying it’s possession to a minor crime. On the other end of the scale, the U.S has declared an all out war on drugs, introducing harsher laws and stiffer sentencing for those involved.

The arguments both for and against the legalisation are numerous and compelling. On one side you will hear arguments informing you that marijuana is a “gateway” drug, use of which will ultimately lead to stronger substance abuse. The pro weed lobbyists, on the other hand, will argue for the economic benefits to our country in these trying times, such as taxation and regulation. Legalisation opponents will tell you that long term subjection to marijuana use will lead to many health problems including dependency and mental illness, while marijuana supporters will urge you consider the medical advantages this plant can bring to relieve the suffering of chronic illnesses such as cancer.

Those who wish to keep this plant illegal want to deter the public from embracing marijuana in the same fashion our country has embraced the alcohol culture, stressing that our NHS and Gardai will face extraordinary expenses to repair the costs of legalisation on our society. However, those on the other side will strive to inform you of the importance of the most versatile plant on earth, hemp, and its many economic and social benefits.

This debate aims to educate the public on both sides of the argument and we hope the public will leave with an educated opinion based on both facts, not government scare mongering, from pro-weed lobbyists and the cold harsh truths from legalisation opponents, rather than the wishful thinking of pot smokers.

coadyj

dude, i missed it.

I was too stoned

Kidd-o

Cause thats exactly what the debate was about...

I think there was too many stoners and not enough people looking for medical mj!

It was actually quite an inteligent debate, so i reckon it was wasted on most of the crowd

coadyj

Kidd-o wrote: »

Cause thats exactly what the debate was about...

I think there was too many stoners and not enough people looking for medical mj!

It was actually quite an inteligent debate, so i reckon it was wasted on most of the crowd

Oh your soooo smart, i thought the only point was going to be "because its cool"

I think life might have been wasted on you

Sully

Now kids play nice.

ec18

coadyj wrote: »

Oh your soooo smart, i thought the only point was going to be "because its cool"

I think life might have been wasted on you

leave kidd-0 alone.....it's not her fauly she's short :P

knoxor

So, what was the outcome of the debate.

Anyone care to post any of the major point scoring issues raised by either side ?

What did the panel of Judges decide ?

... or did you all forget ?

coadyj

Well as you know I missed it, but here is what I would argue

1. Prohibition doesnt work, people still grow it and people still smoke it
2. A regulated, legal market would reduce underage usage.
3. Legalized marijuana would take money away from criminal gangs and put it back in to the Irish economy, At standard prices the irish goverment could make 1000% profit on cannabis which could equate to a new revenue, which could lead to lowering taxes
4. Cannabis legalization would allow for the development of the hemp industry which can be used to make a very strong bio fuel, twice as efficent as current bio fuel.
5. Prohibition is based on lies and disinformation. There is nothing wrong with cannabis, regular use does not affect your life at all. Prohibition is based on incorrect research done over a century ago, and by comparison to alcohol its much safer
6. Cannabis use will reduce people dependencies on alcohol and nicotine which in ireland has gotten to an epidemic stage.
7. Marijuana is not a lethal drug and is safer than alcohol. It is established scientific fact that marijuana is not toxic to humans; marijuana overdoses are nearly impossible, and marijuana is not nearly as addictive as alcohol or tobacco.
8. Marijuana has a lot of medical uses too, from treatment of depression to glaucoma, why should we ban the use of such a drug when cocain is still used medicaly for nasal contriction
9. We the users are willing to stand up for it, and our fundamental right to use a substance. If I enjoy smoking a joint, then who are you to tell me I cant choose what I put into my body.
10. Not an argument but a simple point, cannabis has only been illegal for 1% of the time it has been used for, Prohibition hasnt worked and when we finally do give in and legalize it we will be looking back at this time like the americas look back at alcohol prohibition.


and last but not least, have a look at this video
http://www.youtube.cohttp://boards.ie/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=58243286m/watch?v=wrQV32F7ZHU

dlofnep

coadyj wrote: »

1. Prohibition doesnt work, people still grow it and people still smoke it

Correct, it will however minimize the amount of people using it. Not that I personally have anything against anyone having the occasional toke.

coadyj wrote: »

2. A regulated, legal market would reduce underage usage.

I would agree with this. As a teenager, I personally found it easier to get a score than a 6 pack. Drug-dealers don't ask for ID

coadyj wrote: »

3. Legalized marijuana would take money away from criminal gangs and put it back in to the Irish economy, At standard prices the irish goverment could make 1000% profit on cannabis which could equate to a new revenue, which could lead to lowering taxes

Another reason I agree with it being legalised. Drug dealers benefit the most from it being illegal. Nobody else. More capital in drug-dealing, means more funds for organised crime.

coadyj wrote: »

4. Cannabis legalization would allow for the development of the hemp industry which can be used to make a very strong bio fuel, twice as efficent as current bio fuel.

Interesting.

coadyj wrote: »

5. Prohibition is based on lies and disinformation. There is nothing wrong with cannabis, regular use does not affect your life at all. Prohibition is based on incorrect research done over a century ago, and by comparison to alcohol its much safer

I would agree the in most part, there is alot of disinformation out there. As a former-smoker myself, I don't agree with your statement that regular use does not affect your life at all. I smoked hash for about 5 years, and had to quit due to the panic attacks smoking it would bring on. I wasn't the only one affected by this - But I would say that extreme paranoia and panic attacks was not evident in the majority of people. Not to mention, the infamous "whitener" - which didn't bode well with those who were paranoid.

I wouldn't be a fan of peddling disinformation out to people stating that it does not harm people. It obviously does. If made legal, I would advise against people with panic attacks or other medical related issues to use it.

coadyj wrote: »

6. Cannabis use will reduce people dependencies on alcohol and nicotine which in ireland has gotten to an epidemic stage.

Alcohol perhaps, but I disagree with the nicotine idea. The majority of people smoke hash with tobacco in their joints. This would increase the amount of people who are addicted to nicotene. It all depends on the form that cannabis is distributed. Naturally, used in a yoghurt or something to that effect wouldn't be a problem - but smoking with tobacco will not reduce nicotene dependance and I would assume that most people would just smoke it. I found when living in the states that everyone smoked grass without tobacco to help burn it down.. So in that form, yes.

coadyj wrote: »

7. Marijuana is not a lethal drug and is safer than alcohol. It is established scientific fact that marijuana is not toxic to humans; marijuana overdoses are nearly impossible, and marijuana is not nearly as addictive as alcohol or tobacco.

I would agree with this. You could hypothetically overdose, in the terms of smoking too much and getting a whitener. But I don't see how it would cause death.

coadyj wrote: »

8. Marijuana has a lot of medical uses too, from treatment of depression to glaucoma, why should we ban the use of such a drug when cocain is still used medicaly for nasal contriction

Not sure I'd be in favour of using any chemicals for the treatment of depression. Dependancy on chemicals for depression works out worse in the long-run.

coadyj wrote: »

9. We the users are willing to stand up for it, and our fundamental right to use a substance. If I enjoy smoking a joint, then who are you to tell me I cant choose what I put into my body.

I've no problem with anyone having a toke. I personally, overall - think it's a mild drug, no worse than alcohol. But would you like heroin legalised on the premise that people should be allowed to put it into their body? I would advocate the use of cannibis on the premise of finding it overall, pretty much a social drug in which someone under the influence would rarely ever harm anyone else, unless alcohol which is prone to cause fights.

Overall - well done on the debate.

christophicus

knoxor wrote: »

So, what was the outcome of the debate.

Anyone care to post any of the major point scoring issues raised by either side ?

What did the panel of Judges decide ?

... or did you all forget ?

Yeah I am kinda interested to hear how the whole thing turned out.

Kidd-o

Ok, just before i talk about the debate,

EC18 ello!!! I knew it was you!!! lol

coadyj wrote: »

Oh your soooo smart, i thought the only point was going to be "because its cool"

I think life might have been wasted on you

Eh, 1. you don't know me so please don't pass a judgement, 2. If you have a problem with something i've said, attack the statement, phrase or words not the person. Thats bitter and doesn't portray you in a good light.

---

They're all good points and if i remember correctly most of them were brought up...

ill write a bit about the points against each one i can remember... (bare with me a lil too much sause afterwards so the night isn't as clear as it should be)

1. Prohibition doesnt work, people still grow it and people still smoke it

Was deffo brought up, but can't remember the argument i think it fell under with point 2

2. A regulated, legal market would reduce underage usage.

the agrument was, if someone (underage or not) wanted it they could still get it... there was a counter argument to that stating but at least it would be bought in a safer environment
(On a side note, i started smoking when i was 11, drinking at 12 and smoked smoke at 13, things being legal or not doesnt stop much...)

3. Legalized marijuana would take money away from criminal gangs and put it back in to the Irish economy, At standard prices the irish goverment could make 1000% profit on cannabis which could equate to a new revenue, which could lead to lowering taxes

the government would also have a really high tax on it like cigarettes, people would still go for importing it illegally or under the table

4. Cannabis legalization would allow for the development of the hemp industry which can be used to make a very strong bio fuel, twice as efficent as current bio fuel.

This point was made, i think by a guy named eddie, (awesome hair)
the law soc argued that, was it likely that the most conservitive group of people in the country, farmers, start growning cannabis.

IMO i didnt really get it, isnt hemp decrimialised? i own hemp clothing, ropes etc, loads of shops sell hemp and its not a problem. i know of a good few in cork and dublin and i dont think the gardai has any beef with the owners

5. Prohibition is based on lies and disinformation. There is nothing wrong with cannabis, regular use does not affect your life at all. Prohibition is based on incorrect research done over a century ago, and by comparison to alcohol its much safer

The point was, it causes impotency in men, and can delay the effects of puberty in both men and women.

6. Cannabis use will reduce people dependencies on alcohol and nicotine which in ireland has gotten to an epidemic stage.

this point wasnt made, but i for one wouldnt agree, me thinks it would just be something else people would be dependent on... not replacing nicotine or alcohol but going along with them.

7. Marijuana is not a lethal drug and is safer than alcohol. It is established scientific fact that marijuana is not toxic to humans; marijuana overdoses are nearly impossible, and marijuana is not nearly as addictive as alcohol or tobacco.

I dont think the scientific fact that its non toxic to humans was made because thats wrong, its toxic to humans hence the buzz. by all means correct me but i need websites and texts to believe that one... in fact having a friend whom developed a tumor directly related to smoking cannabis is another reason i think thats wrong but, ive been wrong myself before

8. Marijuana has a lot of medical uses too, from treatment of depression to glaucoma, why should we ban the use of such a drug when cocain is still used medicaly for nasal contriction

We had a speaker from medical mj ireland and not legalise cannibis ireland, whom i think was the best speaker on that side (he had his own plant with him lol)
He was epiliptic and smokes mj for that, and it was argued that there are forms of medical mj avalible

9. We the users are willing to stand up for it, and our fundamental right to use a substance. If I enjoy smoking a joint, then who are you to tell me I cant choose what I put into my body.

The government are there to protect people from themselves sometimes, would you be of the same mind if someone said "i like cutting myself, who are you to stop me"

that point wasnt made though and i would have liked to hear the argument,

10. Not an argument but a simple point, cannabis has only been illegal for 1% of the time it has been used for, Prohibition hasnt worked and when we finally do give in and legalize it we will be looking back at this time like the americas look back at alcohol prohibition.

Not that i dont believe you or anything but where do you get your statisics from?

Now i smoke a lil myself from time to time and it is imo a mild drug but just cause i do it doesnt mean i think its right, i think cigarettes and alcohol should be criminalised and i use both of those (pretty much daily)

I was also argued that it wouldnt be smuggled if it was legal, but that was countered with the fact that cigarettes are one of the worlds most smuggled items,

was a really good debate enjoyed it, legalise cannibas ireland won

one of the judges was alan dukes, and the other 2 were lectures in wit (whos names i should know considdering i have both of them)

Looking forward to another debate, any ideas on some hot topics?

k

coadyj

Kidd-o wrote: »

Eh, 1. you don't know me so please don't pass a judgement, 2. If you have a problem with something i've said, attack the statement, phrase or words not the person. Thats bitter and doesn't portray you in a good light.

---

Right, I was insulting you because you made an assumption that the debate would be waisted on most of the crowd which was implied in the way I insulted you, you're right I don't know you, but from what Ive read your doing a cert in WIT, whats that like 200 points, and you failed the garda entrance exam, so its a bit rich for you to be telling everyone how intellectual you are.

Kidd-o wrote: »

(On a side note, i started smoking when i was 11, drinking at 12 and smoked smoke at 13, things being legal or not doesn't stop much...)

Well ain't you cool, I don't think a kid is going to be able to go into a tobacconist and purchase marijuana as easily as they can go to a dealer, of course there are exceptions but it will reduce underage use

Kidd-o wrote: »

the government would also have a really high tax on it like cigarettes, people would still go for importing it illegally or under the table

You smoke and drink as you have stated so many times, how many times have you bought illegal cigarettes or illegal alcohol? you pay almost 6 euro tax for a pack of smokes, and if you try to argue to me that you have bought duty free, you didn't smuggle that into the country. Do you think they have cannabis dealers in Amsterdam? No they have coffee shops

Kidd-o wrote: »

The point was, it causes impotency in men, and can delay the effects of puberty in both men and women.

impotency, Ive heard but never heard of, and I would have already argued that it should not be used by children, but adults of age

Kidd-o wrote: »

I don't think the scientific fact that its non toxic to humans was made because thats wrong, its toxic to humans hence the buzz. by all means correct me but i need websites and texts to believe that one... in fact having a friend whom developed a tumor directly related to smoking cannabis is another reason i think thats wrong but, ive been wrong myself before

Definition of the world toxic - "Capable of causing injury or death, especially by chemical means", There has been never been any case of someone dieing from smoking cannabis, and if your just going to make up stuff about your friend don't bother, are you telling me that a doctor said that your friends tumor was caused by cannabis, I say bull **** and if I'm wrong give me the name of that doctor so i can report him to the HSE

Kidd-o wrote: »

The government are there to protect people from themselves sometimes, would you be of the same mind if someone said "i like cutting myself, who are you to stop me"

Someone who says "i like cutting myself" is mentally ill and has a serious problem, The cannabis smoker does not have a destructive attitude and isn't going to harm them-self by smoking cannabis. Might I also add its not illegal to cut yourself, which it 100 times more dangerous then cannabis.

Kidd-o wrote: »

Not that i dont believe you or anything but where do you get your statisics from?

http://www.concept420.com/marijuana_cannabis_history_timeline.htm

cannabis was made illegal in 1937 its now 2009 so that 72 years ago

2727BC was the first time it was used as a medicine
2009AD - 2727BC = 4736 years

72/4736 * 100 = about 1.5%, but when i wrote it, it was 1.4% so I rounded down, due to it being 2008

Kidd-o wrote: »

I was also argued that it wouldnt be smuggled if it was legal, but that was countered with the fact that cigarettes are one of the worlds most smuggled items,

Well firstly I don't know where you getting you facts from about the cigarette smuggling, secondly the debate was about Irish legalisation and Ireland has a very low record legal smuggling

Sully

coadyj: Take it easy with the insults. Insulting someones Education doesnt make you look cool.

Just debate without insulting each other please lads!

coadyj

Sully wrote: »

coadyj: Take it easy with the insults. Insulting someones Education doesnt make you look cool.

Just debate without insulting each other please lads!

s/he started it :(:(:(
ah no sorry, i was just getting back for the incredibly derogatory comment kidd said about stonners, then justified.

Kidd-o

Eh, thanks i actually passed the garda entrance exam, and didnt pass the interview.

and yes im doing a cert, and i love it, i turned down the degree because i want to join the guards. I'm also dyslixic, so sorry about the spellings.

and regarding the comment, it was my opinion that it was wasted on the crowd, for the most part. Not due to appearence, not due to smoking habits but because of the way people were addressed. With respect, your comment was hardly the most mature, was it?

---

on another note, the points above were the points raised by the speakers, not myself (for the most part.)

as for my friend, i dont know his doctors name. surely anyone can understand how little i cared to find out details. It is fact, weather you choose to believe me or not is up to you.

---

Keep an eye out, there may be more topical debates coming your way SOON! lol

coadyj

Kidd-o wrote: »

I'm also dyslixic, so sorry about the spellings.

Kidd-o wrote: »

as for my friend, i dont know his doctors name. surely anyone can understand how little i cared to find out details.

Kidd, I'm not trying to be mean now but some of the stuff you have written here are the funniest things i have ever read

How little did you care about your friend?

Spelling dyslexic wrong was the icing on the cake for me

Kidd-o wrote: »

and regarding the comment, it was my opinion that it was wasted on the crowd, for the most part. Not due to appearence, not due to smoking habits but because of the way people were addressed.

Could you clarify this point please

Kidd-o

just the questions and comments passed by certain members of the crowd.

lol speaking of the crowds questions

one guy asked

"why do i have to smoke has that has been soaked in diesal and transported in barrols!"

i though the reply from both cannabis ireland and the law soc was brill just a joint

"you dont have to"

coadyj

Kidd-o wrote: »

just the questions and comments passed by certain members of the crowd.

lol speaking of the crowds questions

one guy asked

"why do i have to smoke has that has been soaked in diesal and transported in barrols!"

i though the reply from both cannabis ireland and the law soc was brill just a joint

"you dont have to"

lol, he must have been stonned

Tragamin2k2

any sign of the vid of this?

the_syco

dlofnep wrote: »

I would agree the in most part, there is alot of disinformation out there. As a former-smoker myself, I don't agree with your statement that regular use does not affect your life at all. I smoked hash for about 5 years, and had to quit due to the panic attacks smoking it would bring on. I wasn't the only one affected by this - But I would say that extreme paranoia and panic attacks was not evident in the majority of people. Not to mention, the infamous "whitener" - which didn't bode well with those who were paranoid.

The panic attacks could be due to diesel, amongst other things that are put into chemicals to add weight, and to change the colour, so that the dealer can sell more, and say it's "batter quality" due to the colour.

dlofnep wrote: »

I wouldn't be a fan of peddling disinformation out to people stating that it does not harm people. It obviously does. If made legal, I would advise against people with panic attacks or other medical related issues to use it.

Everyone drinks alcohol, yet it affects everyone differently.

dlofnep wrote: »

I found when living in the states that everyone smoked grass without tobacco to help burn it down.. So in that form, yes.

If it's legal, who would anyone smoke soapbar. That'd be like drinking watered down Bud, if alcohol was ilegal.

dlofnep wrote: »

I've no problem with anyone having a toke. I personally, overall - think it's a mild drug, no worse than alcohol.

Not worse, better. You smoke weed (pure weed, no tabacco), you'll be mellow. Less people become aggressive after smoking weed, and usually it's only if they were drinking previous to smoking weed.

coadyj

yeah, and what the hell is he going on about a whitener??? its called a whitey

I dont think people who have only experiance the ****ty soapbar in ireland should be allowed to comment :P

here is a good video

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0YYAdVtcgg

dlofnep

We call it a whitener here and always have. Although I smoked it 10 years ago, times change, names change.. It doesn't change the fact that it's a very real side-effect of cannabis. And I don't buy that it's anything to do with diesel, because the same effects can be got from smoking grass, which is not dipped in diesel.

There are health concerns, mostly psychological.. But they are there, and you need to address them if you want anyone to take the free the weed movement seriously. Constantly going out stating that there are no negative aspects to cannabis is wrong.

Alittlebit

dlofnep wrote: »

We call it a whitener here and always have. Although I smoked it 10 years ago, times change, names change.. It doesn't change the fact that it's a very real side-effect of cannabis. And I don't buy that it's anything to do with diesel, because the same effects can be got from smoking grass, which is not dipped in diesel.

There are health concerns, mostly psychological.. But they are there, and you need to address them if you want anyone to take the free the weed movement seriously. Constantly going out stating that there are no negative aspects to cannabis is wrong.

The 'whitey' isnt a side effect of cannabis, it's the full effect and one I fully enjoy and seek (if gotten from real cannabis, big difference). I smoke maybe once/twice a week and I smoke alot when I smoke.

Hey, cannabis isnt for everyone, neither is alcohol or coffee.
What's anyone's opinion on the effect got to do with my rights to enjoy plants that I deem acceptable for my body?

There are health concerns with everything, life is a health concern. Why should 100 people not smoke and enjoy it because 1 or 2 get panic attacks?? Just dont smoke it if you dont like it.

A reason it should be legal is because people are growing up starting to smoke at 12-14 while their bodies are still developing and thinking soapbar is cannabis, the majority of Ireland's experience with cannabis is soapbar hash which as Im sure you all know, can be as little as 10% cannabis and 2-3% THC if even.

This smells rotten, has undesired effects and is just disgusting. This is a real health concern.
And no, people dont have to smoke it, but lots did a while ago and this has helped people find it normal to accept ****e. It is the most profitable type of smoke (if you can even call it that) so of course, if we'll buy it, they'll sell it and make a fortune.

To cut them dealers out is obvious. The reason cigarettes are smuggled is because we get ****ed over in taxes, these are all government created problems.
It's not like if you legalised weed we'd pay them taxes, every true heavy smoker would grow their own, it's so much cheaper/better quality/choice.

People will grow their plants as is their right.


I think we all know why cannabis is really illegal, it would be detrimental to business. Having it illegal also creates jobs for guards (98% of drug busts is for cannabis) and is the only way to monopolise cannabis.

Do the dealers in the rough estates have millions of euro to supply Ireland with dope? Of course not. Who does? Big business men.

coadyj

Yeah, I kinda agree with the above commenter,

Alcohol has much worst side effects than cannabis and its still legal, the assume that people will use it responsibly

oh and dlofnep, maybe if the were able to tax it they would have to introduce fees again :P

knoximus

I recommend you watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQADo9rabS0

coadyj

knoximus wrote: »

I recommend you watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQADo9rabS0

I watched this whole documentary the other day, very informative

StRiKeR

Alittlebit wrote: »

Hey, cannabis isnt for everyone, neither is alcohol or coffee.
What's anyone's opinion on the effect got to do with my rights to enjoy plants that I deem acceptable for my body?

There are health concerns with everything, life is a health concern. Why should 100 people not smoke and enjoy it because 1 or 2 get panic attacks?? Just dont smoke it if you dont like it.

the majority of Ireland's experience with cannabis is soapbar hash which as Im sure you all know, can be as little as 10% cannabis and 2-3% THC if even.

To cut them dealers out is obvious. The reason cigarettes are smuggled is because we get ****ed over in taxes, these are all government created problems.
It's not like if you legalised weed we'd pay them taxes, every true heavy smoker would grow their own, it's so much cheaper/better quality/choice.

People will grow their plants as is their right.


I think we all know why cannabis is really illegal, it would be detrimental to business. Having it illegal also creates jobs for guards (98% of drug busts is for cannabis) and is the only way to monopolise cannabis.

Do the dealers in the rough estates have millions of euro to supply Ireland with dope? Of course not. Who does? Big business men.

very good points, couldn't agree more.

everybody have their points, but legalise it is the better choice imo.

Farguc

Canabis **** yeah !!! LEGALISE !!!

No one has ever died from cannabis, where people die from tabacco every year. weed is healthier compared to ethanol and Tobacco. No one has the right to ban one drug and allow more poisonous ones. They shouldve banned shrooms neither, they grow naturaly !!

knoximus

its time people grew their own freedom and outgrow this law/government once and for all.

Libertine2002

I think its counter-productive when people waste so much time arguing over whether or not its beneficial, or whether or not it damages your health. Lots of horrible stuff that'll kill you is legal, and as long as the sky is blue people will voice their opinions for or against them. Liberals will disagree with conservatives, smokers will disagree with non-smokers and this is the way the world works- no one single solution, just different means for different people. Surely the big issue here is people's right to choose for themselves and not be told what they can and can't have. I don't mind people telling me what I should and shouldn't do, that's called advice. But when someone tells me what I can and can't do, that's dictatorial and in my opinion a far more serious issue than whether or not cannabis is beneficial or not. Can I put forward this question- Whether or not you are opposed to actually consuming cannabis, surely we deserve the right to choose for ourselves in the exact same way we can choose whether or not to buy a pack of cigarettes or a bottle of vodka.

Alittlebit

Farguc wrote: »

Canabis **** yeah !!! LEGALISE !!!

No one has ever died from cannabis, where people die from tabacco every year. weed is healthier compared to ethanol and Tobacco. No one has the right to ban one drug and allow more poisonous ones. They shouldve banned shrooms neither, they grow naturaly !!

Dont get me started on psilocybin mushrooms....

Irish druids used them frequently for spiritual purposes, recent studies have shown that they have long term benefits for mental health.
A CBS reporter deemed it 'God in a pill'.

They have absolutley no bad effects other than the 'bad trip' which I and every Shaman (the world's first religion) regards as a self exam. If you're unwilling to explore the dark side of your own head then of course that isnt going to be nice.

I highly suggest that ye all take out your Bibles and read the description of Manna/The body of Christ/Jesus again. 'A Small round thing that grows in cow pastures' that when the King of Babylon drank tea of it he had 'Visions within the hour'.

I'm 100% sure that they have made the true body of christ a Class A drug. Notice how nearly all American presidents were Freemasons?
Google Freemason Mushrooms...But that's a different topic.

Im pretty sure we've intelligently come to the conclusion that cannabis should be legalised, and legalised worldwide to stop drug tourism.
Now all we have to do is get a real democracy!:mad::mad::(

Im pretty sure humanity is coming into spring now though after a long winter, as soon as people are disapointed so by Barack O'Liar they might cop on and realise the people have to do something.

MAKE SURE YOU GO TO THE MARCH THIS YEAR IN DUBLIN IF YOU WANT IT LEGALISED!

Sorry for the semi-rant, Im in a bad mood...someone's taking my religious rights away!

ROC1977

Most of what I've read here is complete rubbish. lol
Some people don't have a clue what they are talking about except maybe one or two.

Soapbar is the main smoke in Ireland. Which any smoker will tell you is made up from scraps, rubber, oil, petrol, plasic, car tyres. Dirt basically.
If mj was legal it can be regulated.
Tourist industry would be booming. Small business will boom i.e coffee shops, (smoking ban will be a bit of a bummer lol), Work would be created in Greenhouse growing weed, hemp products industry would increase.

Garda's could spend resources on Coke/Heroin and other hard chemical that do wreck lives.
Courts wouldn't be overloaded with people getting dragged in for small qtys of smoke. Saving the country Millions.
Taxing of MJ another gold mine for the country.
People will try to buy cheaper or grow their own, but don't people do that with fags and drink already. Homebrew, duty free etc. So no big deal there.

There is no paranoia from correctly grown weed. THC does not make you paraniod . Cannabidiol does. And this is formed by leaving the flowering bud past harvest time. This is also what causes the so called body stone which soapbar smokers are used too.
THC on the other hand is a head high almost trippy, helping people be more creative, artisicly and musically.

Off course there are always exceptions to everything, and downsides to everything to go along with the ups(highs lol).

The way the country is going anyway, everyone should take up smoking weed. This depression and lack of work won't look so bad with a fat j in your mouth. lol

ahye

ROC1977 wrote: »

Most of what I've read here is complete rubbish. lol
Some people don't have a clue what they are talking about except maybe one or two.

Soapbar is the main smoke in Ireland. Which any smoker will tell you is made up from scraps, rubber, oil, petrol, plasic, car tyres. Dirt basically.
If mj was legal it can be regulated.
Tourist industry would be booming. Small business will boom i.e coffee shops, (smoking ban will be a bit of a bummer lol), Work would be created in Greenhouse growing weed, hemp products industry would increase.

Garda's could spend resources on Coke/Heroin and other hard chemical that do wreck lives.
Courts wouldn't be overloaded with people getting dragged in for small qtys of smoke. Saving the country Millions.
Taxing of MJ another gold mine for the country.
People will try to buy cheaper or grow their own, but don't people do that with fags and drink already. Homebrew, duty free etc. So no big deal there.

There is no paranoia from correctly grown weed. THC does not make you paraniod . Cannabidiol does. And this is formed by leaving the flowering bud past harvest time. This is also what causes the so called body stone which soapbar smokers are used too.
THC on the other hand is a head high almost trippy, helping people be more creative, artisicly and musically.

Off course there are always exceptions to everything, and downsides to everything to go along with the ups(highs lol).

The way the country is going anyway, everyone should take up smoking weed. This depression and lack of work won't look so bad with a fat j in your mouth. lol

I agree with most of what u said here except the 3rd last paragraph, I honestly don't know where u got your info bout cannabidiol causing the paranoia cos I'm an experienced smoker, and not just of soapbar(those days are long gone) and weed definitely can make u paranoid, not always but I remember bein mad paranoid im A'dam thinkin a junkie was followin us and other stuff aswell which I won't go into.

And also u say that that's also what causes a body stone, I would hope that anyone who knows a bit bout cannabis knows that Indicas cause a body stone while Sativas cause more of a "high".

ROC1977

ahye wrote: »

I agree with most of what u said here except the 3rd last paragraph, I honestly don't know where u got your info bout cannabidiol causing the paranoia cos I'm an experienced smoker, and not just of soapbar(those days are long gone) and weed definitely can make u paranoid, not always but I remember bein mad paranoid im A'dam thinkin a junkie was followin us and other stuff aswell which I won't go into.

And also u say that that's also what causes a body stone, I would hope that anyone who knows a bit bout cannabis knows that Indicas cause a body stone while Sativas cause more of a "high".

When harvesting weed, it all depends on how long you leave it before you chop it down. If you leave it until 60% or more of the tricomes are brown/amber, instead of milky white. Then there is a higher level of cannabidiol. Which is the chemical that seems to cause paranoia.

Most weed these days is Indica/Sativa crosses. So you are correct in what you say, but at the same time so am I. Indicas take longer to flower, and since most plants are mixed. The longer you leave the plant flower the more Indica dominaint it becomes. Higher cannabidiol. Paranoia/ body stone.
Funny enough I like that type of stone, when watching a movie or something or listening to music. But if I want to get on with my day to day life..not the best idea for me. I just veg. lol

Egon

Then there is a higher level of cannabidiol. Which is the chemical that seems to cause paranoia.

Eh, don't know where you're getting your info from, but that's not quite it.
THC is actually responsible for the paranoia effect that quite a few people report...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs (BBC program)

Indicas take longer to flower, and since most plants are mixed. The longer you leave the plant flower the more Indica dominaint it becomes. Higher cannabidiol. Paranoia/ body stone.

Sorry; sativas actually take longer to flower than indicas, not the other way around. (can compare indica and sativa seed descriptions here:www.marijuanastrains.com)

CBD is also the desired agent for the medicinal effects (but also contributes to the high)

High THC content weed seems to be the big thing these days, however it's the nice mix between the CBD and THC that should be looked for...imo

coadyj

yeah yeah yeah, We all know the science, but don't forget, some people like the paranoia. I myself don't feel right unless i'm worrying about something.

Drinking alcohol can cause you to think:
a) you're a legend with women
b) You can drive
c) You can take that hugh guy in the corner over there
d) You're making perfect sense
e) You can dance
f) Think that abrakebabra is the food of the gods
g) You can play poker

But it is still the cornerstone of the Irish night out, despite the fact that excluding road traffic deaths over 400K people die from alcohol related deaths each year. and that's just over drinking

A friend of mine got beaten to death outside of a nightclub in Dublin because of alcohol, that simply wouldn't happen if weed was legal and alcohol wasn't

The fact is, everyone does it 25% of people between 18-36 smoke cannabis at least once a week. I'm sick of stupid dealers ****ing you around, with the "Ill call you back" BS over and over again.

I would love to be able to pick some up in a local coffee shop, it would probably stop the outrageous interactions I have with criminal gangs, who offer me any drug I want. That's what leads people on to other drugs, not the use of cannabis

I'm also not even remotely bothered in growing my own, as if I want to become a gardener, I'm capable of making my own alcohol too, but i still spend €6 for a pint of watered down beer.

This is something that could actually take Ireland out of a recession and it's time we had our voices hear and acknowledged.

You know those drink aware ad's on TV the "I've had enough", well me too I had enough of this drunken nation and I know is smoke was legal the Irish dependence on alcohol would die down very quickly.

plus medical bla bla bla

Well I have many many more points, but I wont bore you with my rant, but I do think its time we did something about it.

Boycott alcohol maybe!!!

cheeseandonion

Any of you guys going to the legalise cannabis marches in Dublin and Cork on May 9th?

See www.cannabisireland.net for more

Dillinger3000

ROC1977 wrote: »

When harvesting weed, it all depends on how long you leave it before you chop it down. If you leave it until 60% or more of the tricomes are brown/amber, instead of milky white. Then there is a higher level of cannabidiol. Which is the chemical that seems to cause paranoia.

Most weed these days is Indica/Sativa crosses. So you are correct in what you say, but at the same time so am I. Indicas take longer to flower, and since most plants are mixed. The longer you leave the plant flower the more Indica dominaint it becomes. Higher cannabidiol. Paranoia/ body stone.
Funny enough I like that type of stone, when watching a movie or something or listening to music. But if I want to get on with my day to day life..not the best idea for me. I just veg. lol

where did you read this??

i am sorry, but please dont present this information as fact because it is wrong, and you clearly dont know what you are talking about.

some of the details are half correct which leads me to believe that you looked it up specially to make yourself look like you know everything on the subject.... you have obviously never grown weed in your life.

firstly, a plant is either indica, sativa OR ruderelis.... (there is also afghani but this is usually classified under indica) these are the basic families of cannabis and its genetics.... its the plants dna.

A PLANT CANNOT CHANGE ITS GENETICS DURING THE COUSE OF GROWTH... its like saying that a person changed into a different person at the age of 40....doesnt make sense!!!!!!

a sativa dominant plant cannot change to be more of an indica...thats ridiculous.

secondly... about the canabidiol... thats part of the genetics so same applies.

you are correct to say that the timing of harvest is crucial, but the truth is that clear trichomes give you a more head high, milky is in between, and brown/amber trichomes give more of a "couchlock" stone.

your paranoia theory is ridiculous aswell.... where did you get this information?

and by the way, sativas take longer to complete the flowering cycle, whilst indica are a shorter cycle so you have that backwards aswell, sorry.


on the debate....

weed can make you lazy.
weed can be addictive, but much much less than cigarettes.
and weed can be detrimental to people who are predisposed to mental problems.

so weed is sometimes harmful.

my point is that, if information was widespread that weed doesnt suit some people, then the concerns over mental health shouldnt be an issue.

what i think is more of an issue is that the government through their policies have exposed people to soapbar which is a scandal.

soapbar is poisonous, cannabis should be regulated.

most of the points i would make have already been raised.

i just think it is so hypocritical to not only allow the abuse of alcohol, but constantly perpetuate our shameful drinking culture, whilst at the same time, stating the disasterous effect that alcohol has on society as a reason why we shouldnt legalise weed!!!

leaving aside the smoking part... i simply love the process of planing a tiny seed and watching it grow to a beautiful thing.

it makes me sad that im a criminal because i love nature, science, and smoking a herb thats been smoked for thousands of years without problems.

infact, i think smoking weed would do some people the world of good.

chill the **** out world, stop your bickering and smoke a joint!

Dillinger3000

and yes... sativas are more of a head high while indicas are more of a body high.

i like attributes of both so i usually grow hybrids of the 2.... most other people do aswell... pure sativas are impractical to grow indoors anyway.

coadyj

RossBurke wrote: »

and yes... sativas are more of a head high while indicas are more of a body high.

i like attributes of both so i usually grow hybrids of the 2.... most other people do aswell... pure sativas are impractical to grow indoors anyway.

stop being a weed snob,

all anyone cares about is how high it gets you.

Dillinger3000

coadyj wrote: »

stop being a weed snob,

all anyone cares about is how high it gets you.

maybe thats all that 95 % of people care about, but i'm interested in the science of it too.

and this thread is about cannabis in particular so i think its appropriate to be accurate.

........and im only a weed snob to people like my brother who prefer soapbar to weed !!!???!!!

coadyj

RossBurke wrote: »

maybe thats all that 95 % of people care about, but i'm interested in the science of it too.

and this thread is about cannabis in particular so i think its appropriate to be accurate.

........and im only a weed snob to people like my brother who prefer soapbar to weed !!!???!!!

Lets be honest here, this thread is about legalisation. The biggest problem we have in this country is quality. Legalising will change that. We've all read up on the Internet about sativas and indicas, we've all blazed on some ridiculous smoke like Durban poison or jack herer (My favourites).

People don't care about the science, people care about legalisation

paddyboy23

i think they should leaglise cannabis its getting to the stage now that its so easy got that you can get it in kelloggs bloody cornflakes at least it would be looked after better or would it

Flyboy!!!

http://www.phoenixtears.ca/

I'll just leave this here...

Dillinger3000

coadyj wrote: »

Lets be honest here, this thread is about legalisation. The biggest problem we have in this country is quality. Legalising will change that. We've all read up on the Internet about sativas and indicas, we've all blazed on some ridiculous smoke like Durban poison or jack herer (My favourites).

People don't care about the science, people care about legalisation

listen, i know that most people arent interested in the science...thats fine.

but you cant debate legalisation without knowing the science....
heres an example...

that grainne kenny woman... she's on a crusade against drugs, and weed aswell. she makes up bull**** arguments and twists the facts. the way she presents the evidence against weed makes sense to people who dont know anything about weed.
she says stuff like skunk being a special type of cannabis, and that weed today is 40 times stronger than it used to be etc....

also misleads people about psycosis caused by weed etc.

as it stands, no-one sets her straight about her innacuracies....

because of this, people listening to a debate on radio, who usually dont care one way or another will start to think she's talking sense.

StRiKeR

so what is the status of the legalization on this? anyone think it ever gonna happens?

D.U.M.B

The prohibition of cannabis doesn't work!

Sparkles:)

StRiKeR wrote: »

so what is the status of the legalization on this? anyone think it ever gonna happens?

if the country gets poorer and labour get into power yes...

so its loooking quite likely xxxxx

Sully

Sparkles:) wrote: »

if the country gets poorer and labour get into power yes...

so its loooking quite likely xxxxx

Its unlikely Labour will get into government on their own. So it will either by a FFpact, which will probably damage their future, or Fine Gael. So either way, such a decision would probably need cross party support.