TV starting to side with Atheists?

Goduznt Xzst

Anyone else noticed this trend lately? More and more I'm watching shows where religion is either mocked or made out to be blatantly hokum.

Off the top of my head, these shows have dealt with subjects that either mock religion or go to lengths to show it isn't factual.

1. The Big Bang Theory
2. Greek
3. CSI
4. Heroes

There are more but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Anyone else think this also? Why do you think this is? A high proportion of writers being Atheist? Or a general downturn in the viewers interest in religion?

Karl Hungus

Hmm, I haven't watched all the shows you mention, but I can't say I've seen anything that mocks or shows religion out to be wrong in Heroes, or CSI (although I've watched that sparingly).

Could you give some examples of this mockery you're talking about?

Dades

I must have watched a million episodes of CSI, and while one or two of the team might have alluded to not being religious I recall the main man Grissom, took a different view. More here.

The only show I can think of that openly mocks religion is South Park, which just grates on me now.

Goduznt Xzst

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Hmm, I haven't watched all the shows you mention, but I can't say I've seen anything that mocks or shows religion out to be wrong in Heroes, or CSI (although I've watched that sparingly).

Could you give some examples of this mockery you're talking about?

Ok, examples:

Big Bang Theory - They use the religious nature of Sheldons mother to poke fun at her refusal to accept science

Greek - Rusty's roomate Dale is a fundamental Christian, whom they poke fun at for his strict ideals

CSI - There have been numerous episodes where its either advocating evolution as fact (why wouldn't it) or its talking about how God could not exist, seeing the allowed evils in the world. It's been made clear that Sidle is an Atheist, and also that Brass really has no time for believers or God.

Heroes - This season at least they started an arc where an individual was healed and believed his powers came from God, only to be told that science had given him his powers.

Also, Family Guy openly mocks religion but then that's to be expected.

robindch

House

Spyral

CSI is laced with religion, esp catholicsm. grissom is a lapsed/ex catholic. in CSI miami horatio is a catholic and has been to confession as well sometimes.

Grissom is more questioning of religon, he is quoted as saying something along the lines of 'I dont carry that guilt any more' but he hangs onto his mums rosary beads all the same.


edit; the more i read that the more i realise I am turning into grissom, just without the cushy job

Rev Hellfire

robindch wrote: »

House

Some of the house vs god episodes are quite funny, have you been tempted to electrocute yourself yet robin ?

PDN

Spyral wrote: »

CSI is laced with religion, esp catholicsm. grissom is a lapsed/ex catholic. in CSI miami horatio is a catholic and has been to confession as well sometimes.

Grissom is more questioning of religon, he is quoted as saying something along the lines of 'I dont carry that guilt any more' but he hangs onto his mums rosary beads all the same.


edit; the more i read that the more i realise I am turning into grissom, just without the cushy job

There was one episode where Grissom was talking to a priest and said he hadn't stopped believing in God, but that he didn't agree with being given rules that he had to live by. Which, come to think of it, is pretty funny since his entire life is devoted to catching people and putting them in prison for failing to obey the rules that the State gives them to live by.

Asiaprod

robindch wrote: »

House

My hero.

pH

PDN wrote: »

There was one episode where Grissom was talking to a priest and said he hadn't stopped believing in God, but that he didn't agree with being given rules that he had to live by. Which, come to think of it, is pretty funny since his entire life is devoted to catching people and putting them in prison for failing to obey the rules that the State gives them to live by.

Well here's the difference, in one case we all agree the rules we will live by in an open democratic process, in the other one man heads up a mountain, makes up an arbitrary set of rules, pretends that "God told him", then demands everyone live by *those* rules. Subtle I know, but I'm sure if you try you'll get it.

PDN

Asiaprod wrote: »

My hero.

Hardly a good role model for a Buddhist, I would have thought?

I must admit I have a soft spot for Dr Gregory House. My sense of humour is similar to his (except for his penchant for racial insults).

Yesterday my daughter and I watched the episode where he treats a teenage faith healer. The score on his whiteboard ended up as reading House 3 God 3.

The Mad Hatter

Add Scrubs, Doctor Who and Torchwood to your list. I think it's got more to do with there being a far more prominent atheist market now than there would have been even fifteen years ago, as well perhaps as producers more willing to take risks on religious subjects.

robindch

PDN wrote: »

There was one episode where Grissom was talking to a priest and said he hadn't stopped believing in God, but that he didn't agree with being given rules that he had to live by. Which, come to think of it, is pretty funny since his entire life is devoted to catching people and putting them in prison for failing to obey the rules that the State gives them to live by.

Don't watch CSI myself, but if it's any good, perhaps this ex-catholic Grissom chap just doesn't like an elderly, unelected, self-selecting and exclusively male club dictating rules concerning how people should, say, have sex, something that the club's members are supposed to have no (...er...) first-hand experience of?

If he's an atheist, then he's more likely to think that rules should be decided by the people who have to live by them, or decided by people who are chosen by the people who have to live by them.

Not a difficult distinction to appreciate.

PDN

robindch wrote: »

Don't watch CSI myself, but if it's any good, perhaps this ex-catholic Grissom chap just doesn't like an elderly, unelected, self-selecting and exclusively male club dictating rules concerning how people should, say, have sex, something that the club's members are supposed to have no (...er...) first-hand experience of?

If he's an atheist, then he's more likely to think that rules should be decided by the people who have to live by them, or decided by people who are chosen by the people who have to live by them.

Not a difficult distinction to appreciate.

If he's an atheist then he's obviously a pretty confused one to say that he hasn't stopped believing in God.

limerick_woody

House is great - he does us Atheists no favours really as he's an arrogant, selfish SOB but he can be very funny.

"You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic." - my favourite line.

As to the original question, i see no evidence for a trend of Atheism acceptance on tv. Mocking religion is so rare as to have shock value. We have a way to go before it becomes acceptable to mock religion openly, in the same way that it's ok to mock just about anything else.

Hivemind187

Stargate SG1. Pretty atheistic as it goes declaring all gods and god-like figures to be litle more than the anthropomorphic extent of Carl Sagans maxim, "any science sufficiently advanced ..."

PDN

limerick_woody wrote: »

As to the original question, i see no evidence for a trend of Atheism acceptance on tv. Mocking religion is so rare as to have shock value. We have a way to go before it becomes acceptable to mock religion openly, in the same way that it's ok to mock just about anything else.

So atheism acceptance = mocking religion?

Eglinton

PDN wrote: »

So atheism acceptance = mocking religion?

I wouldn't say that Atheism equates to mocking religion but I suppose anyone who does mock religion is more than likely of the atheistic persuasion.

I'm as guilty as the next atheist for mocking religion though so there is a close relationship.

I, for one, am very very glad that many American produced shows are mocking religion. It's about time it was put in it's place there. We (Ireland and the UK) have been mocking religion through mainstream enterainment for quite some time.

As much a travesty as it will be, I'm looking forward to the American remake of Father Ted, to see what the American reaction is!

Galvasean

Anyone see this episode of Transformers from the 80s?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSovNJAC7AI

Basically calls religion 'an excuse for high taxes and harsh laws'. pretty deep for a kids cartoon.

Fanny Cradock

Galvasean wrote: »

Anyone see this episode of Transformers from the 80s?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSovNJAC7AI

Basically calls religion 'an excuse for high taxes and harsh laws'. pretty deep for a kids cartoon.

I am completely opposed to young kids being indoctrinated into believing that there is no God :pac:

Anyway, I watch Heroes religiously, and while Nathan finding out that God was not involved in his miraculous recovery was not unexpected, there is certainly enough positive references to God throughout the series for it not to be considered an atheist vehicle.

Besides, I could well imagine that the writers will fudge any absolutes when confirming or denying God's existence.

estebancambias

in shark james woods says ''i dont do god'

Overheal

Just watch this opener for the latest series of Gundam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6PsyHxwI84

MrPudding

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I
Anyway, I watch Heroes religiously, and while Nathan finding out that God was not involved in his miraculous recovery was not unexpected, there is certainly enough positive references to God throughout the series for it not to be considered an atheist vehicle.

That really depends on what flavour of religion you go for. If you are a YEC whackjob then the fact that it pushes evolution episode after episode may give the impression that it is part of the atheist materialist conspiracy.

MrP

PDN

Slightly off topic, and if Dades thinks too much so he can always delete this contribution from a mischevious theist, but does anyone remember the Perishers comic strip? Some crabs constructed a religion around 'the eyeballs in the sky' caused by a dog peering into their rock pool.



Classic stuff!

Dades

What is this "off-topic" concept of which you speak?

Oooh - life beyond the pooliverse.

Tar.Aldarion

stargate!

mojawoja

All the Star Treks - Voyager in particular, the crew accidentaly distroy a planets religion

But to be honest there's a gizillion more movies and shows that support the existance of ghosts and ghouls.

Anyways, if 100% of people don't believe in Saturn, Jupiter, Thor, Seth etc. etc., then whats the big deal in saying that Yahweh doesn't exist either?

Galvasean

mojawoja wrote: »

Anyways, if 100% of people don't believe in Saturn, Jupiter,

What are you one of those planetary deniers?

Weidii

On the other side, has anyone noticed that discovery channel airs an ungodly amount of biased "documentaries" about ghosts, etc?

mojawoja

Galvasean wrote: »

What are you one of those planetary deniers?

Actually the exact oppostite, poor aul Pluto :mad:

The Mad Hatter

PDN wrote: »

Slightly off topic, and if Dades thinks too much so he can always delete this contribution from a mischevious theist, but does anyone remember the Perishers comic strip? Some crabs constructed a religion around 'the eyeballs in the sky' caused by a dog peering into their rock pool.



Classic stuff!

The Simpsons did that once, too, didn't they? Where Lisa accidentally created life, and they worshipped her as god and feared Bart as the devil.

Quote of the episode - Lisa: *gasp* I've created Lutherans!

Fanny Cradock

Of course, one could argue the inverse. The book I am Legend is clearly written denying the possible existence of God. The film, however, has Christian imagery and, at complete odds with the book, ends on a pro-theistic high.

Dades

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Of course, one could argue the inverse. The book I am Legend is clearly written denying the possible existence of God. The film, however, has Christian imagery and, at complete odds with the book, ends on a pro-theistic high.

The film, which I thoroughly enjoyed, took a lot of liberties with the book. Though I think that was because Hollywood required a 'happy' ending rather than the abrupt, but correct one.

GothPunk

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Of course, one could argue the inverse. The book I am Legend is clearly written denying the possible existence of God. The film, however, has Christian imagery and, at complete odds with the book, ends on a pro-theistic high.

Actually the movie studio demanded a change to the end of te film which gave us the tacked on hodge podge of silly Christian imagery ending. You can read the story and view the original ending here.

The Mad Hatter

GothPunk wrote: »

Actually the movie studio demanded a change to the end of te film which gave us the tacked on hodge podge of silly Christian imagery ending. You can read the story and view the original ending here.

Yeah, I've heard that if there's ever a director's cut it'll be brilliant.

I'm not going to watch that video, however, as I've only seen half the film (and really enjoyed it, too) because I fell asleep on that plane...

Zombrex

GothPunk wrote: »

Actually the movie studio demanded a change to the end of te film which gave us the tacked on hodge podge of silly Christian imagery ending. You can read the story and view the original ending here.

I never understood what was going on there. The "happy" ending has Neville

dying, the vamps getting wiped out (after we just spend most of the movie being shown how they have grown and developed sentience) and New York abandoned

where as the too-negative-for-Americans according-to-some-talentless-hack-producer has Neville

realizing that the vamps have developed sentience, freeing both the vamp test subject and his obsession with "curing" them, finding peace at last and being able to leave New York, letting go of the emotional baggage that held him there, with the hope of finding more survivors out in the rest of the world

Not only does the released ending not make any sense in the context of the movie, to the point of being jarring in a WTF kind of way, it isn't even the "happy" ending in my opinion. He

blows up his lab with a hand grenade

ffs, totally nonsensical compared to the rest of the movie.

People are dumb.

Goduznt Xzst

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Add Scrubs

Yeah there was an episode where Perry was trying to convince Laverne that God didn't exist and that supposed miracles where nothing but mere coincidence. Laverne eventually admits that she needs the comfort of faith to cope with the harsh realities of her job. It never goes into detail about the chances that miracles do happen, rather that Laverne needs her religion as an emotional crutch.

The reason i'm asking this anyway is to see if other people agree with me or if it's just a case Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon, in that I've been reading a lot about evolution and Atheism lately so I guess I'm noticing more of the nuanced references to it in TV shows and movies.

GothPunk

Wicknight wrote: »

I never understood what was going on there. The "happy" ending has Neville

dying, the vamps getting wiped out (after we just spend most of the movie being shown how they have grown and developed sentience) and New York abandoned

where as the too-negative-for-Americans according-to-some-talentless-hack-producer has Neville

realizing that the vamps have developed sentience, freeing both the vamp test subject and his obsession with "curing" them, finding peace at last and being able to leave New York, letting go of the emotional baggage that held him there, with the hope of finding more survivors out in the rest of the world

Not only does the released ending not make any sense in the context of the movie, to the point of being jarring in a WTF kind of way, it isn't even the "happy" ending in my opinion. He

blows up his lab with a hand grenade

ffs, totally nonsensical compared to the rest of the movie.

So very true. So very terribly incomprehensibly true.
****
I think that there may be truth in your observation Goduznt Xzst that there are more of these atheistic references in shows due to the nature of American TV. They're always looking to be offensive in a comfortable way, they push the bar in baby steps. Religion is a hot topic on many fronts so having characters, stories and sketches that explore the area and joke about it are going to generate controversy and good ratings. In contrast would be something like the Star Trek series that has always had rational characters, or British TV, like shows on Channel 4, that actually look to push the bar and make people think, so we're seeing more documentaries about the topic as well. (See 'The Root of All Evil? etc).

So my point is maybe we're seeing more jokes involving religion because it's something people didn't feel comfortable joking about in the past but is now becoming fair game. Doesn't necessarily imply siding with atheists, just a weakening of the silly reverence for another persons opinions about the universe.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Peep show has a fair few references. Fair city also has a non-religious guy who keeps antagonising his catholic mates & fiance questioning them on their beliefs at the moment

Sangre

Dexter refers to his lack of belief a few times.

Fanny Cradock

Dades wrote: »

The film, which I thoroughly enjoyed, took a lot of liberties with the book. Though I think that was because Hollywood required a 'happy' ending rather than the abrupt, but correct one.

Well, if you enjoyed that book, then you will probably enjoy Roadside Picnic. I've not had the opportunity to see Stalker, the fiim upon which it is based (Dir by Tarkovsky, the guy who did Solaris) but it's well worth a read before Travolta and chums release their ham fisted effort onto the screens.

Galvasean

Dades wrote: »

The film, which I thoroughly enjoyed, took a lot of liberties with the book. Though I think that was because Hollywood required a 'happy' ending rather than the abrupt, but correct one.

Never mind that the book's ending is one of the mos taught provoking endings ever.

Sangre wrote: »

Dexter refers to his lack of belief a few times.

Is that Dexter as in the murderer who works for the police, or the Dexter who works in a lab and has his experiments frequently spoiled by his sister Deedee?

Pompey Magnus

So I took a day off work today and decided to head to the cinema to see "Ghost Town" with Ricky Gervais. As it happens I managed to go into the wrong screen and ended up instead at "The Mutant Chronicles". I was about to leave when I realised my mistake but decided to stay on because the opening battle scene looked decent enough. As it turns out the film was half typical mutant zombie gore-fest and half Christian sermon, a strange combination I must say.

The hero, Capt Hunter, is your stereotypical alpha male GI killing machine, half way through though we discover that he is also an atheist. He is recruited for a dangerous mission by an Irish warrior monk played by Ron Perlman with a dodgy accent (his first appearance in the film was I think him praying the "Our Father" in Irish). Anyway Capt Hunter ridicules the warrior monks for their blind faith but he is constantly reminded of the virtues of faith and trust in the Almighty, and is told that he would not be on his mission if he truly did not believe deep down in God.

At one point I think the monk claims something like "God is life and the mutants are unlife"..........unlife? What the hell is unlife???? Is that even a word?

To cut a long story short as the film reached its conclusion the now mutant monk tells Hunter to have faith, just as the cave is falling down around him. Hunter then takes a literal "leap of faith" into the abyss and sure enough God provided for him as there was an underground lake for him to land into. The implication being I think that Hunter had refound his belief in God and realised the error of his atheist ways. Fittingly his last word in the film, as he lay on the lakeside after escaping, was "Christ".

All in all it was a pretty rubbish film, the acting was poor and the storyline was utterly devoid of any interesting plot. The only people who might appreciate it would be 13 year old Christian boys who want to be reminded how great God and blind faith is whilst watching the forces of evil get slaughtered. The only positive that I took away from the cinema was at least none of my money is going to it.