Ulster V Munster. Sat 25th. KO 7:30

toomevara

Looking forward to this clash, its got all the hallmarks of a dogfight in the making. No Hayes, O'Connell, Howlett or TOL for Munster...final squad to be named today. Could be the fixture of the weekend...

buck65

Should be tight all the way, wouldn't be surprised if Ulster shaved it, Munster should still have too much.

Jackz

Team's named?

toomevara

Jackz wrote: »

Team's named?

Still waiting, some time this aft AFAIK...

toomevara

Munster Squad:

1.Pucciarello 2.Fogarty 3.Buckley 4.D Ryan 5.M.O'Driscoll (c) 6. Quinlan 7.JOS 8.Melck 9.Stringer 10.Warwick 11.Dowling 12. Mafi 13.Murphy 14.Horgan 15.Hurley

Replacements: J Flannery, D Hurley, M Melbourne, J Coughlan, M Prendergast, J Manning, K Lewis.

Thats quite a weak looking Munster team, We'll have it tough at Ravenhill, I reckon....


Ulster Team

Ulster Team: B Cunningham; T Nagusa, D Cave, P Wallace, A Trimble; N O'Connor, C Willis, J Fitzpatrick, R Best (C), BJ Botha, E O'Donoghue, R Caldwell, S Ferris, D Pollock, R Diack

Replacements: (16-22) N Brady, T Court, C Del Fava, T Anderson, I Boss, I Humphreys, M McCrea

Colm_OReilly

Here's a question (and I apologies to the mods if this descends into sh!t talk)

Why would Munster rest so many players? Is this servitude to the Irish team? A congratulations for good work last weekend in England? Need to build a fuller squad and are blooding new players in a game like this? Do not see Ulster as a threat and can either a) beat them with this team or b) afford to lose the ML points?

I imagine the answer is 'a bit of the above' but look at what happened to Leinster in the Sportsground a few week's back.

Thanks,
Col

buck65

The Munster players rested have all done trojan work over the past few weeks and Munster do feel that they have a complete squad now and can afford to do this from time to time. Tipoki , O Leary, arel carrying injuries so really Munster are only resting 4 of their frontline players.
They are not underestimating Ulster just keeping themselves fresh I would think.

Nukem

toomevara wrote: »

Thats quite a weak looking Munster team, We'll have it tough at Ravenhill, I reckon....

i don't think that side is too weak at all - lets face it Ulster have been struggling but I don't think Munster are going to go half ass-ed into this, they want to keep the unbeaten run going. I think McGahan is boxing clever; he knows that certain players are injured and others require rest, the top players threw down a yard stick and he wants to see what the so-called second string team can do to challenge them.

Reckon it could come down to forwards trench warfare because if Ulster swing it wide they have a real possibility to be opened liked a packet of peanuts by the Munster back line, they aren't firing as a unit at the moment.

[Jackass]

Good squad management is essentially playing the weakest team that you think will still win the game. Munster have been excellent at that this season and a few players will have a well earned rest ahead of a very tough November.

Sadly, I don't think this game will be close at all. Comfortable win for Munster.

Unless Ulster somehow raise their game ten fold for the derby, as they have been absolute muck so far.

anonymous_joe

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Here's a question (and I apologies to the mods if this descends into sh!t talk)

Why would Munster rest so many players? Is this servitude to the Irish team? A congratulations for good work last weekend in England? Need to build a fuller squad and are blooding new players in a game like this? Do not see Ulster as a threat and can either a) beat them with this team or b) afford to lose the ML points?

I imagine the answer is 'a bit of the above' but look at what happened to Leinster in the Sportsground a few week's back.

Thanks,
Col

As has been said so perfectly by Jackass, you need to keep your squad rested. Otherwise they'll be exhausted for important games. (Sorry to Ulster fans.)

Given that it's Irish opposition, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ulster scare Munster before losing in the second half.

Crash

I'm still of the opinion that warwick is the best backup outhalf in the country, and will be the making of this match.

Aidric

Even allowing for the fact that Munster are resting a few frontline players I'd expect them to have too much class for an Ulster team suffering from a shocking run of form.

toomevara

Aidric wrote: »

Even allowing for the fact that Munster are resting a few frontline players I'd expect them to have too much class for an Ulster team suffering from a shocking run of form.

Possibly, but at least we'll have the pleasure of Matt "Walter Mitty" Williams' pre and post match analysis...his fantastical asides are absolutely hilarious and becoming even more and more divorced from reality, the fella's like Hitler in the bunker in '45....

Colm_OReilly

Thanks for the responses guys.

anonymous_joe

toomevara wrote: »

Possibly, but at least we'll have the pleasure of Matt "Walter Mitty" Williams' pre and post match analysis...his fantastical asides are absolutely hilarious and becoming even more and more divorced from reality, the fella's like Hitler in the bunker in '45....

Does that count as Godwin-ing it? ^^

I'm amazed at how badly that Ulster team's doing. They have some outstanding players. Not many, but certainly a few who deserve to be doing better.

toomevara

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Does that count as Godwin-ing it? ^^

You better believe it!

zAbbo

Munster taking a beating 15-6

Pollock having a great game.

anonymous_joe

So that's why they signed that Fijian. :pac:

Trojan

Ok, now I'm starting to believe Ulster have a chance.

Amz

Ulster says YES!

anonymous_joe

Paddy Wallace and Trimble have been impressive.

A couple of decent showings in the Ulster pack too.

As for that Fijian, brilliant outlet so far today.

Munster (like Leinster last night ) haven't looked massively interested at all.

Trojan

Job done. Pity they didn't get the bonus.

Final: 22-6 Ulster

il gatto

Thanks for nuthin' Munster. Leinster had the good grace to let Connacht subject them to an embarrassing loss. You've just dropped us back in it.:(
Rubbish performance by the way. Take nothing from Ulster. They were very good. But Munster were worse than Leinster yesterday.

zAbbo

Well done Ulster, but disgusted with the Munster line up and performance - total kick in the teeth to Connacht

il gatto

Will they send a team like that to the Sportsgrounds at Christmas? If they just don't care about the ML, fine, but they've started unbeaten, then they lose badly to Ulster. If suddenly they start taking it seriously again against Connacht, you have to think that there's something fishy going on.

toomevara

As soon as I saw the match XV, I started to worry...you can't change 10 players and expect any cohesion or direction to miraculously emerge...hugely disjointed performance. Ulster really should have taken the bonus point. Precious few positives for Munster.

suppafly

toomevara wrote: »

As soon as I saw the match XV, I started to worry...you can't change 10 players and expect any cohesion or direction to miraculously emerge...hugely disjointed performance. Ulster really should have taken the bonus point. Precious few positives for Munster.

yeah it really was just a mess of agame for them. And wtf was the point in putting on the 3 lads at the end(prendergast, manning and lewis)!?! They r shocking. What was prendergast at for ulsters 3rd try?? and then horgan missed the tackle on boss.

toomevara

suppafly wrote: »

yeah it really was just a mess of agame for them. And wtf was the point in putting on the 3 lads at the end(prendergast, manning and lewis)!?! They r shocking.

Couldn't agree more, was a crazy decision...Munster were just beginning to show signs of settling into some sort of rhythm, that move completely screwed the pooch.

efb

Munster's great anti- Connacht conspiracy? hardly...

toomevara

efb wrote: »

Munster's great anti- Connacht conspiracy? hardly...

Nah, nothing as Byzantine as that...think McGahan is searching for combinations in key areas to cover when the marquee names are shagged out and in need of a breather...Think a more measured approach, a tinker here and there, rather than wholesale changes like tonight, might be more in order. Also Warwick was a shadow of himself tonight,absolutely no direction.

And Ulster, shock horror, showed signs of some form...wallace was excellent and Humphries had a really positive impact...Backrow well up for it too...

Aidric

I only caught ten mins of the second half but Munster looked extremely flat.

il gatto

efb wrote: »

Munster's great anti- Connacht conspiracy? hardly...

Yeah. I know. Just disappointed.:(

[Jackass]

I think the sqaud was extremely weak that Munster put out, and Ulster upped their game big time.

I expected Munster to win this, but I can understand where the selection came from for Munster. For Ulster & Leinster, it's a great result, for Connacht & Munster it's a terrible result.

It's all swings and round abouts. Last time out, there was a great result for Munster & Connacht, but a terrible result for Leinster & Ulster.

Zzippy

il gatto wrote: »

Will they send a team like that to the Sportsgrounds at Christmas?

Like **** they will. Really disappointed with Munster's attitude - ok to tinker with your team, but resting so many players is showing total disrespect to the ML and to Connacht - whats the point trying to finish above Ulster in the league when other sides put out weakened teams against them?

Playing 5 first-choice players is a ****in joke... :rolleyes:

Erin Go Brath

I thought Munster were actually taking the ML seriously this year until i saw the line up for this game. Hardly a surprise that a 1st string Ulster at home beat a 2nd string Munster. 10 changes thats seriously giving 2 fingers to the ML. I think that Connacht guy that posted earlier is correct to be pissed off with Munsters attitude here, its not fair on the other teams. :mad:

Fishtits

I'm not sure what Munster were expecting last night, but having witnessed it first hand, they were pathetic. At times it didn't even look like rugby.

Hats off to Ulster, A well deserved win.

Munster performance was lower than poor, they looked like a team that met for the first time outside the ground.

thehighground

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

I thought Munster were actually taking the ML seriously this year until i saw the line up for this game. Hardly a surprise that a 1st string Ulster at home beat a 2nd string Munster. 10 changes thats seriously giving 2 fingers to the ML. I think that Connacht guy that posted earlier is correct to be pissed off with Munsters attitude here, its not fair on the other teams. :mad:

Hang on a second, Munster are still topping the Magners League. And on form, that Munster team should have beaten Ulster. Munster can't win. If they don't rotate or play their younger players they are criticised. If they do (against a team who are bottom of the League) they get criticised for not taking the Magners seriously. Two years ago, a Munster B/Academy team won in Ravenhill. It had Keith Earls, Mafi along with Tony Buckely on the team sheet that day, all unknowns. Look at them now.

Fair play to Ulster, they deserved that win. Connacht need to win games themselves and not be depending on Munster to win them for them.
And Munster are still well placed to win the Magners this year - and their main competition is going to be the Ospreys & Cardiff. Hopefully, the other three provinces will take the Magners seriously and put as much effort when playing non-Irish teams as they do with their Irish rivals.

il gatto

thehighground wrote: »

Hang on a second, Munster are still topping the Magners League. And on form, that Munster team should have beaten Ulster. Munster can't win. If they don't rotate or play their younger players they are criticised. If they do (against a team who are bottom of the League) they get criticised for not taking the Magners seriously. Two years ago, a Munster B/Academy team won in Ravenhill. It had Keith Earls, Mafi along with Tony Buckely on the team sheet that day, all unknowns. Look at them now.

Fair play to Ulster, they deserved that win. Connacht need to win games themselves and not be depending on Munster to win them for them.
And Munster are still well placed to win the Magners this year - and their main competition is going to be the Ospreys & Cardiff. Hopefully, the other three provinces will take the Magners seriously and put as much effort when playing non-Irish teams as they do with their Irish rivals.

And did Munster take their Irish rivals seriously on Saturday. I think not. If they had, they'd have won, and as a result, Connacht would be better placed. Connacht are doing their best to win matches with poor resources. Watching their main rivals for a Heineken Cup spot being handed 4 points because Munster sent a second rate team to Belfast doesn't feel nice.

buck65

Munster sent a second string team because they rested 4/5 players and had a couple of injuries as well. Munster have had 3 big games recently and needed to try fresh legs and fresh ideas. They were well beaten by a very good Ulster team. No excuses. Munster wanted to win this game but not at all costs. Tbh Munster would have earned it with a full team on Saturday.

This Connacht mullarkey is really annoying. As a previous poster said - win your own games - stop looking for favours from Munster. And any suggestion that Munster are not respecting the ML is untrue. They are trying to develop their players who will be needed to pitch in come March- April. Look at the league table!

I predicted an Ulster win in the ML prediction thread because I feel they are coming good and Munster's team selection also pushed me that way but I was happy to see what the younger lads and subs could do in a tough environment.

Well done Ulster, delighted to see them progressing as it is good for Irish rugby.

Ulstermell0

il gatto wrote: »

And did Munster take their Irish rivals seriously on Saturday. I think not. If they had, they'd have won, and as a result, Connacht would be better placed. Connacht are doing their best to win matches with poor resources. Watching their main rivals for a Heineken Cup spot being handed 4 points because Munster sent a second rate team to Belfast doesn't feel nice.

Its not like Lienster played their first team against Connaught - no one is saying they were doing them favours.

In these two games Munster and Lienster both underestimated their irish opponents and it showed. wins for both Conn and Ulster are good for the irish game.

I was cheering Connaughts win, shame that a few Connaught fans (or people who seem to have them as a second team) can't be glad the underdog won in Ulster's case

Zzippy

buck65 wrote: »

Munster sent a second string team because they rested 4/5 players and had a couple of injuries as well. Munster have had 3 big games recently and needed to try fresh legs and fresh ideas. They were well beaten by a very good Ulster team. No excuses. Munster wanted to win this game but not at all costs. Tbh Munster would have earned it with a full team on Saturday.

This Connacht mullarkey is really annoying. As a previous poster said - win your own games - stop looking for favours from Munster. And any suggestion that Munster are not respecting the ML is untrue. They are trying to develop their players who will be needed to pitch in come March- April. Look at the league table!

I predicted an Ulster win in the ML prediction thread because I feel they are coming good and Munster's team selection also pushed me that way but I was happy to see what the younger lads and subs could do in a tough environment.

Well done Ulster, delighted to see them progressing as it is good for Irish rugby.

BS.
Munster rested 10 players, not 4 or 5. As for the league table, they didn't rest too many players for the earlier games - the lowest number of first team HC starters they played in the ML was 10 against Cardiff, they played 14 against Edinburgh and Leinster, and 5 against Ulster.
I don't mind being told win your own games - duh - we know we need to do that. But its horse**** when your closest rivals get handed games by another team that puts out a totally weakened team. We're not looking for any favours, we just want a level playing field.
I won't mind so much if Munster only play 5 HC starters against us at Christmas, but whats the odds of that? :rolleyes:

buck65

I would say pretty high with HCup games in December and January they will take precedence. Munster will always rate the Hcup above the ML. That's the way it is. They play Clermont home and away in December. They are playing Connacht on the 28 Dec and Ulster on the 3rd Jan as well as the Ospreys the following week. Then Sale Sharks at home.Surely they will look at the fixtures and target the Connacht game as a chance for some 2nd string guys to step up again.

This selection was a direct result of 2 tough H Cup games and tough ML wins against Leinster and Glasgow.
It's true what Ulstermell says about Leinster v Connacht, there was no-one complaining that Leinster made alot of changes.
Leinster and Munster have 2 biq squads - rotation is essential for developing their squads and ensuring their players are fit and fresh for the season.
Munster took a gamble and it didn't pay off. Same as Leinster.

Erin Go Brath

thehighground wrote: »

Hang on a second, Munster are still topping the Magners League. And on form, that Munster team should have beaten Ulster. Munster can't win. If they don't rotate or play their younger players they are criticised. If they do (against a team who are bottom of the League) they get criticised for not taking the Magners seriously. Two years ago, a Munster B/Academy team won in Ravenhill. It had Keith Earls, Mafi along with Tony Buckely on the team sheet that day, all unknowns. Look at them now.

Fair play to Ulster, they deserved that win. Connacht need to win games themselves and not be depending on Munster to win them for them.
And Munster are still well placed to win the Magners this year - and their main competition is going to be the Ospreys & Cardiff. Hopefully, the other three provinces will take the Magners seriously and put as much effort when playing non-Irish teams as they do with their Irish rivals.

Rubbish! If Munster change 10 of their starting 15 everytime they play a ML game they haven't a hope of winning the tournament. For Munster to make such wholesale changes says 1 of 2 things, 1)They dont give a toss about the ML or 2)They really underestimated Ulster. Either way i think its poor form (and i'm a Munster fan).
Of course Munster have a strong squad, but they need the neucleus of their strongest players starting to be competitive, to suggest otherwise is arrogant in the extreme. A few changes in key positions is what was called for, not wholesale changes which amounts to virtually a 2nd string taking the field!

Tim Robbins

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Rubbish! If Munster change 10 of their starting 15 everytime they play a ML game they haven't a hope of winning the tournament. For Munster to make such wholesale changes says 1 of 2 things, 1)They dont give a toss about the ML or 2)They really underestimated Ulster. Either way i think its poor form (and i'm a Munster fan).
Of course Munster have a strong squad, but they need the neucleus of their strongest players starting to be competitive, to suggest otherwise is arrogant in the extreme. A few changes in key positions is what was called for, not wholesale changes which amounts to virtually a 2nd string taking the field!

I agree. 3 - 5 changes is fine. You never have a fully fit squad anyway and all players need a break. But making 10 changes, was the mgt saying, "let's put out the B team for this one". The lads who were playing obviously took it seriously and played to win. But for mgt, for that game there is no way winning was the number 1 objective, resting their frontline players and giving the fringe players of their squad a run was.

They can do this, by making a few changes every week but making 10 sudden changes when 10K people have paid into the match is a p*ss take.

When the Celtic league started, they couldn't get a sponsor. No sponsor wants to be associated with a p*ss take of a competition and no sponsor will put money into advertising and promoting a tournement teams take the mick out of.

It's a shame Munster doing this.

Zzippy

buck65 wrote: »

It's true what Ulstermell says about Leinster v Connacht, there was no-one complaining that Leinster made alot of changes.

This would be valid if it was true. Leinster started 10 first-team players against Connacht - Kearney, Horgan, Fitzgerald, Contepomi, Sexton, Wright, van der Linde, Cullen, Toner, Elsom. Keane, Keogh and Fogarty have all come on as subs in one or both of the first 2 HC games. Thats twice as many 1st-team players as Munster started on Saturday.

il gatto

Are Munster too big for the ML now or something? Don't be looking for favours? What? The only way the league is fair is if every team goes out to win every game. I don't care about "favours" from the mighty Munster. All I want is a level playing field.
And I am happy for Ulster. I said as much earlier in the thread. I've always had a big interest in Ulster rugby. I even remember the whole '99 HEC and wondering why people didn't make a bigger deal about Ulster's achievement.
We all know Leinster made changes against Connacht in the Sportsgrounds and paid the price, but at least they pushed Connacht and lost by a single point. Ulster handed Munster their ar5es on Sat. It's not a conspiracy theory. But it nevertheless makes life very difficult for Connacht when match results are skewed in that way.

thehighground

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Rubbish! If Munster change 10 of their starting 15 everytime they play a ML game they haven't a hope of winning the tournament. For Munster to make such wholesale changes says 1 of 2 things, 1)They dont give a toss about the ML or 2)They really underestimated Ulster. Either way i think its poor form (and i'm a Munster fan).
Of course Munster have a strong squad, but they need the neucleus of their strongest players starting to be competitive, to suggest otherwise is arrogant in the extreme. A few changes in key positions is what was called for, not wholesale changes which amounts to virtually a 2nd string taking the field!

Will you be howling about Munster Rugby disrespecting the ABs or the 26,000 who have bought tickets for that game in 3 weeks to at least field a team that has played together once this year - because that is the team more or less, that will be playing them (missing on Sat were Howlett, and the injured Tipoki, Leamy & Carney).

I gather a friendly has been organised against Harlequins to give them some much needed game time the week before.

And credit to Ulster, they played very well and deserved their win. Just like Connacht did against Leinster. Pity they couldn't do the same job on Edinburgh as they did on Leinster;)

thehighground

il gatto wrote: »

Are Munster too big for the ML now or something? Don't be looking for favours? What? The only way the league is fair is if every team goes out to win every game. I don't care about "favours" from the mighty Munster. All I want is a level playing field.
And I am happy for Ulster. I said as much earlier in the thread. I've always had a big interest in Ulster rugby. I even remember the whole '99 HEC and wondering why people didn't make a bigger deal about Ulster's achievement.
We all know Leinster made changes against Connacht in the Sportsgrounds and paid the price, but at least they pushed Connacht and lost by a single point. Ulster handed Munster their ar5es on Sat. It's not a conspiracy theory. But it nevertheless makes life very difficult for Connacht when match results are skewed in that way.

Maybe you could start now and say well done to Ulster for turning over Munster - don't care who Munster field, they are always difficult to beat

PS - I still think Munster will probably win the ML this year (hopefully, Leinster, Ulster & Connacht will have a good cut at the Ospreys and other non-Irish teams hot in pursuit of Munster who are still the Magners League leaders at the moment)!

Zzippy

thehighground wrote: »

Will you be howling about Munster Rugby disrespecting the ABs or the 26,000 who have bought tickets for that game in 3 weeks to at least field a team that has played together once this year - because that is the team more or less, that will be playing them (missing on Sat were Howlett, and the injured Tipoki, Leamy & Carney).

I gather a friendly has been organised against Harlequins to give them some much needed game time the week before.

And credit to Ulster, they played very well and deserved their win. Just like Connacht did against Leinster. Pity they couldn't do the same job on Edinburgh as they did on Leinster;)

What are you on about? The AB game is a friendly - an exhibition match in reality - that has no bearing on any other team. Who gives a **** what team Munster play, its a nothing game organised to market Adidas and make money on 1978 mementos. :rolleyes:

Diom

Well done to any Ulster fans out there. As a Connacht fan it isn't the greatest result for us, but I'm glad you gave the Munster men a good going over. It really shine some light on the pretenders to the Irish XV (Wallace was class, Trimble was class, Buckley was crap).
Hopefully the Ulster men will take this form into the HEC with them.

Connacht are up against it now. As always.

twinytwo

Going Forward wrote: »

I'm still of the opinion that warwick is the best backup outhalf in the country, and will be the making of this match.

to be fair to him he isnt bad with the boot... buyt as to back up who else is there.. i mean i dont want to take anything from rodge but when he retires munster and ireland are ****ed for a fly half seeing as no one else hardly ever gets to play 10 for the internationals