TV Shows Of The Week 13: Buffy / Angel

Mr E

Buffy started off as a spinoff of the 1992 movie, and grew into something much much bigger. I watched Buffy on and off when it was on and it was a witty, entertaining, action packed show, with some of the best examples of season-long story arcs ever. It could also put on its emotional drama hat when it had to. I think most people would put Season 4's Hush up near the top of the "Favourite Episodes" list. Creepy demons and a very funny 'script' (and I use that term loosely in this case.)

Angel - to be honest I found this harder to get into, but I think it found its stride by the time it got to season 5. Pity that turned out to be the last season. I blame the curse of Adam Baldwin.

So... favourite scenes / episodes / characters / memories from either show? Post them (and youtube clips) here!

Ron DMC

What ever happened to the potential spin off 'Ripper' with Giles fighting demons back in the good ol' UK?

I reckon that could have been good.

JP Liz

I really enjoyed the earlier seasons of both Angel and Buffy

I loved Doyle in Angel (RIP Glenn)

The tv series of Buffy was much better and more successful than the film

Basq

Well.. crap!!

Wrote a big long post and when I posted it, it got lost. Page froze! GRRRRR! :mad:

To summarise what I more or less said about Buffy (but in less detail):

Season 1 - 4: More or less unmissable stuff for the first 4 seasons. Very well written, well developed characters and enemys and direction was top notch.
Season 4 : This is what I refer to as the "Jumped The Shark" season. It was the beginning of the end for Buffy. Riley and The Initiative was tiresome, uninteresting and just downright woeful!
Season 5: The season with Harmony wasn't much better.. apart from 'The Body' (which was an absolutely masterclass in direction by Mr Whedon)
Season 6: This season brought back some of the magic thanks to 3 characters - Warren, Andrew and Jonathan. Great supporting actors and the most fun season-long enemies to feature in the series in it's run.
Season 7: This was average enough as whole. But what I loved about this season was the performance from Tom Lenk as Andrew. He featured in every episode from about half-way into the season onwards... and was just a show stealer. Pitch-perfect comic timing and a great dramatic actor to boot (see the closing scene of 'Storyteller' with him confessing his fate to camera). Nathan Fillion was fantastic too. But it became 'The Buffy And Spike Show' in this season and I think everyone was just tiring a bit of it.

I'm 16 episodes into the first season of Angel.. and it's definitely not as easy to get into. I think it suffers from a real lack of comedic characters (most notably - Xander from Buffy) but Alexis Denisof definitely holds his own in those stakes (*hyuk hyuk* "stakes" - geddit?! ). I intend on finishing it but who knows when now that the weekly shows in the US are back.

Mr E

basquille wrote: »

Season 5: The season with Harmony wasn't much better..

Glory, n'est pas?

I pretty much agree with the rest of what you said. The Initiative was pretty dull, but it got interesting towards the end with Adam.

I liked Season 5 with Glory, and the end of that season was pretty shocking if you didn't know it was coming.

Season 6 was my least favourite. It started very ropey, didn't improve with the 3 nerds, but got really cool towards the end with Dark Willow and her quest for revenge.

Season 7 was a big improvement, and Fillion was pretty cool as Caleb.

"Those stakes" ..... Time for multiple rolleyes... here we go: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Basq

Mr E wrote: »

Glory, n'est pas?

Whoops.. you're right. Where'd I get Harmony from?!

Mr E wrote: »

I pretty much agree with the rest of what you said. The Initiative was pretty dull, but it got interesting towards the end with Adam.

Nah, didn't enjoy Adam at all actually. Was all a bit daft!

Mr E wrote: »

I liked Season 5 with Glory, and the end of that season was pretty shocking if you didn't know it was coming.

I suppose the end would have been shocking if you didn't know.. but I didn't particularly like how they resolved that in season 7, but it was inevitable.

I think Glory was a desperate villain though.. tacky and couldn't help but cringe when I watched her flit around the screen like an eejit!

Mr E wrote: »

Season 6 was my least favourite. It started very ropey, didn't improve with the 3 nerds, but got really cool towards the end with Dark Willow and her quest for revenge.

Gonna strongly disagree with any love for Dark Willow.. don't think Alysson Hannigan could pull it off. And c'mon, the complete 180 she did at the end of the season thanks to Xander - I puked a little!

Mr E wrote: »

Season 7 was a big improvement, and Fillion was pretty cool as Caleb

I think Caleb was, without doubt, the most evil incarnation in Buffy. If just for what he did to Xander not to mention half a dozen potential Slayers!

Mr.Nice Guy

Buffy...

I pretty much completely agree with basquille's view. I was a major fan of both shows and for me Buffy in the first three seasons was one of the best shows on TV. I think Angel losing his soul was a masterstroke and the show just took off from there. I feel the show peaked during Season 3 with the Mayor, Faith and that whole fantastic storyline. After that I think the show went downhill.

After that I didn't care much for the college setting, Giles' character, the new additions like Tara and Riley (I loved Angel kicking his ass!) and the Adam character.

I didn't enjoy season 5 either. I was never fond of Dawn's character and I think the character of Glory was annoying and pretty lame.

Season 6 was probably the least satisfying for me. Willow as the baddie? Come on. I thought that sucked. I also didn't really like what happened to the Spike character in this period.

I enjoyed the final season a lot. I felt it returned to some of the glory days of earlier years. I liked the Kendra character as well as Andrew and I felt it delivered a pretty strong ending.

Angel...

I was a loyal Angel fan from the off as I thought Angel was a terrific character. I always found Cordelia an uninspiring character so I didn't really get a kick out of her being in it.

I thought Season 1 of Angel was terrific. Much darker than Buffy and with some cool episodes such as the great 'Lonely Hearts' episode with the brilliant use of the song 'Touched' by Vast. I was a fan of the Doyle character and was gutted when he was killed off. It was very sad what happened to Glenn Quinn. I liked Wesley too though and felt he brought a lot to the show. The ending of that season with Darla being brought back caught me by surprise as I thought at the time it might be Doyle.

Season 2 for me was Angel's peak but sadly it was gone almost as soon as it came. I'm referring to Darla and Drusilla teaming up. I was so excited by this prospect, loved the flashbacks, and loved how they did Darla losing her soul with, at the end of an episode, as Darla and Angel were having a heart to heart, suddenly the door bursts open and Drusilla sires Darla with Lindsay telling Angel 'How did you think this would end?' Brilliant. Here it is..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY9W0YGxlKc

Sadly, Drusilla soon disappeared and the storyline pretty much faded away. It was a pity the girl who played Kate didn't feature either.

Season 3 was a fine season and I enjoyed the character of Holtz, the introduction of Fred and the way Wesley went and kidnapped Connor from Angel. Gunn became more of a central figure at this point as I recall and I liked his character. I think this season ended poorly however with Connor being fully grown (I hated that guy) and Angel and Cordelia having feelings for each other.

Season 4 was a strange one. Had some magnificent episodes like Angel reverting to Angelus, Wesley becoming badass and getting Faith to take him on, but then it went into the stuff with Jasmine and Angel and co joining Wolfram and Hart and I found it very weak.

Season 5, the final season, was a very good one. Spike being thrown into the mix was something I liked and there were some great episodes like the one where Angel becomes a puppet. I love the scene where he fights Spike. The stuff with Fred/Illyria was interesting. I felt the final episode delivered in a big way. I liked the big fight scenes, Wesley's honourable death and the final scene with Angel saying 'Let's get to work'. Only thing I didn't like was Lorne killing Lindsay.

I like both shows in their own way but I've probably more of a soft spot for Angel as it was less well known and I feel it deserved a better send-off.

I think the difference in both is that Buffy had some seasons where it was consistently brilliant whereas Angel seemed to go from brilliant to average and have dips at points. I don't know if this is because Joss Whedon had to devote more attention to Buffy or what. Angel though I feel is a very underrated show.

unreggd

Woop, gwan the Buffy

Seriously, what a show

The thing I liked best about it was the Character development, even just the fact there was some

Im sick of watchin shows nowadays that have the same old characters when they show is well into its 3/4th season


I think I missed 3 eps from Season 5 so hafta go check that out

Catari Jaguar

I loved the random weird characters, situations and demons in the first couple of seasons. Buffy's smart mouth and cool slang was great. I loved Willow and Oz, but wasn't so keen on the Angel and Buffy romance. The break up was entertaining.

My favourite season was 3. I loved the whole Faith and the Mayor's ascension storyline.

I hated teh Adam and the Initiative storyline and I thought Riley was sooo boring.

Season 5 with Glory is on channel 6 at the moment and I'm really enjoying it.

ixoy

Buffy S1-S3 all good with great mix of humour and drama with a show that really showed how adult it could be when it produced the likes of "Lie to Me".
S4's Initiative was a bit weak but I really liked S5 and Glory and thought it ended wonderfully.
S6 however, I didn't really care for - especially Dark Willow and I never liked the ethics they applied to Willow and her actions there. S7 also didn't do too much for me either.
Show produced some really great moments (probably the highlight being "Hush") but I think it went on a little longer than it needed to.

Angel I enjoyed for its run and I liked S4, which a lot of people hated. I thought Jasmine brought an interesting twist to the idea of villains. S5 had some ropey moments but it had bits of genius there, like "Smile Time" and a finale with a great closing moment.

For those who aren't aware, Buffy's Season 8 and Angel's Season 6 are being explored in comic book form these days and they've been endorsed by Joss Whedon as "canon".

dRNk SAnTA

Oh yeh, angel turning evil was such an epic story line. Ah the good old days. Buffy took a dive once they went to college, and I found Riley was such an annoying character. I hated the guy.

Daith

I never watched Buffy until Season 4. I had watched one episode before that (Killed by Death) which I didn't enjoy first time. Anyway S4 actually got me interested. I enjoy the whole "urban fantasy" theme (though Angel does it better). I went out and bought the S1 box set on tape(!). Never looked back.

Love the Fang Gang. Angel, Spike, Dru and Darla. "Fool for Love" and "Darla" were awesome. Hated when Buffy went all Spike happy in S6 and 7 though.

Liked S1-S5 though I hated that Glory was hurt by the troll hammer. They had Glory beat the crap out of Buffy every time but suddenly the Troll hammer became a Troll God hammer?

Loved Angel also but can barely remember it.

Oh and Faith rox.

unreggd

Daith wrote: »

I hated that Glory was hurt by the troll hammer. They had Glory beat the crap out of Buffy every time but suddenly the Troll hammer became a Troll God hammer?

That was the point. Olaf was a Troll-God

Anya said "when fighting a God, why not use the weapon of a God?"

then she stripped him of his Godly powers, but he was still really strong, as a regular Troll

Daith

unreggd wrote: »

That was the point. Olaf was a Troll-God

Anya said "when fighting a God, why not use the weapon of a God?"

then she stripped him of his Godly powers, but he was still really strong, as a regular Troll

Olaf was a human who was dating Anya. She turned him into a troll when she found out he was cheating on her. That's how she became a vegenece demon.

The Troll-God thing only came up in the last episode.

unreggd

Well it was never clear when/how/if he was actually a god

but the hammer had Godly powers


Like the Scythe

jaffa20

Have all the boxsets of Buffy and Angel. I miss it so much and when i'm down i just pop them in the dvd player and they always cheer me up. I loved Willow in Buffy and Angel and how character developed so much within the 2 shows from the very first episode. I never liked the character Angel in Buffy and much preferred Spike. God, i miss it so much!!:(

Daith

unreggd wrote: »

Well it was never clear when/how/if he was actually a god

Not to get in debate about a long dead tv show but why would Anya turn someone into a God as an act of venegance?

unreggd wrote: »

but the hammer had Godly powers

I'm postive that people like Xander were hit by the hammer. If it was hurting Glory then Xander should have been a puddle on the floor.

unreggd wrote: »

Like the Scythe

Don't get me started on the scythe.

Bubs101

I love Buffy but it really started to jump the Shark when SMG started to become a lot less attractive. In the first few seasons she was unbelievable but then she started to get a little too muscly and she lost some of her puppy fat. By then Faith was gone as well so all I was left with was Cordelia

KombuchaMshroom

watched buffy when it was on tv regularly but i was too young at the time to appreciate it. Started watching it again on dvd recently and i had completely forgot how funny it was, so many hilarious moments on par with many of the top comedys at the moment.

cuckoo

basquille wrote: »

.. apart from 'The Body' (which was an absolutely masterclass in direction by Mr Whedon)

Agreed, fantastic episode - the lack of background music making the pain of it all resonate even more. The use of music/sound throughout Buffy was genius.

I loved the interaction between the Scoobie Gang, the moments of humour (eg 'hush', when Buffy mimes the staking without a stake in her hand to the bemusement of the others) and the sometimes sweetness of it (Willow and Oz were an adorable couple).

Also, i think Buffy was one of the first tv series to showcase a strong female character in a way that i, as a teenager at the time, found empowering. Whedon spat on the cliche of the blonde waiting to be rescued from the monsters, and gave us Buffy, who as her grave stone told us, 'saved the world - a lot'.

The tropes of teenage tv were touched upon, then twisted around. Buffy sleeps with her boyfriend, and discovers that he doesn't still love her the next morning, and that the warnings about sex unleashing the inner demon in men had some literal truths. Dawn veers towards date rape territory when sneaking out with the older boy/vampire, but the only act of penetration occurs when she rescues herself by staking him with a pencil. The teenagers have to mind eggs for parenting homework.....then their faux young turn out to be monsters. Buffy's mother starts dating, and she resents the new man....then discovers he's an evil robot.

There was also Teh Hotnes5 of Teh Men. Riley was a bit boring, but the sight of him wandering around the screen with his shirt off was good for the soul. Angel brooded and sulked in his long black coat magnificantly. The scene were Buffy and Spike had sex for the first time, and nearly demolished a house in the course of it, was very hot. Xander looked pretty tasty in a tux.

And, there was Faith. I'd go gay for Faith - loved that character.

ziedth

I also Loved these shows, All in all I prefered Angel cause I enjoyed the darker take on it. What I always admired about Joss wedon shows (firefly included) was that noone ever seemed to be "safe". As thats been said in ither posts the dialoge was also first rate.

Unlike alot of people I really liked the way angel ended I'd like to think that the

died as I dont follow the comics just seemed more in keeping with the tone of the series and some of the dialoge leading upto the final scene

All in all first class TV Actually I might watch it again :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Xaniaj

Ah Buffy, my all time fave show! Regarding the hammer, you're both right, it was defin referred to Olaf the God's hammer but looks like a mistake if anything, nothing to suggest in the original episode that he was more than an ole troll!

Some of the best tv out there, Hush and The Body spring to mind as the two best episodes although Innocence and The Becoming (from season 2 dealing with Angel turning evil) are up there as well. It defin went down hill season 4-6 but still very watchable. Must say I liked season 7...perhaps just for Andrew

I'm not sure if I'm the only geek, but season 8 is currently going as comic series and it's great to have the "show" back (almost feels like it too!).

On another note, I was convinced that Faith and Buffy were going to get together...oh well...I can dream

Basq

Just in case anyone is interested, both Angel and Buffy boxsets are on special at Amazon.

You can pick both of them up for about €150 total.

Angel
Buffy

Elmo

:mad:

Not my kind of show at all. I was looking forward to buffy when it first started. But really its just Dawson's Creek with a vampire mask on.

And then there where the people who used to tell me it deals with so many issues, If I want issues I will watch a better show.

The acting was dreadful and stilled, it is surprising that it continued for as long as it did. The comedy was as low as you can get. A huge dissappointment.

As a comedy/horror Buffy is really overshadowed by Reaper, it may not be a good show but at least it doesn't take itself seriously.

Angel went in a strange direction, and became even less of a comedy/horror.

I think their are better horror TV shows that could have been selected for Halloween week.

Millenium
The X Files
Alfred Hitchcock Presents
The Twilight Zone
Salems' Lot (1970s version, and the book mainly)

Just not a fan of this OMG teeny drama. However the opening titles are some of the best in recent years.

Handsome Bob

Favourite Buffy Episodes
Welcome to the Hellmouth, Nightmares;

Halloween, Lie to Me, Surprise/Innocence, Becoming Part 1 & 2;

Revelations, Amends, The Zeppo, - the beginning of Xander maturing, Consequences, Earshot, The Prom, Graduation Part 1 & 2;

The Harsh Light of Day, Hush, Wild at Heart- I cried:o, Primeval;

The Body, The Gift, Once More, With Feeling.

My love of the show peaked at Season 3. I continued to watch the show but it wasn't the same. I hated Season 4, not because of Riley but simply because I thought it was the weakest season in terms of writing and plot. Season 5 was a significant improvement, Season 6 was hit and miss and Season 7 had an underwhelming arc.

As far as Angel goes, I loved every moment of Season 1 and 2. Season 3/Season 4 depended on each other as both shared basically the same arc; unfortunately 4 let down 3. Season 5 was an improvement.

iguana

I'm actually one of the few who really liked season 6. I think the people who complain about how the big bad was the Trio or dark Willow missed the point. The big bad in series 6 was life. How sometimes as you grow up the world can shift on you and the responsibilities thrust upon you can seem impossible. How the friendships that were your whole life in your teens start to peter out. About how adulthood isn't what you imagined it would be.

Perhaps it just coincided with a similar point in my life. Where college had ended and I was doing crappy jobs, my friends and I were coming to a point where we had less and less in common and some of us had new partners taking up our time. My dreams and reality felt miles apart. I remember watching a season 2 re-run at that time and thinking how great the chemistry was between Buffy, Willow and Xander and what a pity it was the show didn't have that anymore. And then it hit me that my own friendships had become exactly like that and that what was happening on Buffy was a reflection of growing up. I think it was actually really brave of the series to grow like that.

Handsome Bob

iguana wrote: »

I'm actually one of the few who really liked season 6. I think the people who complain about how the big bad was the Trio or dark Willow missed the point. The big bad in series 6 was life. How sometimes as you grow up the world can shift on you and the responsibilities thrust upon you can seem impossible. How the friendships that were your whole life in your teens start to peter out. About how adulthood isn't what you imagined it would be.

Perhaps it just coincided with a similar point in my life. Where college had ended and I was doing crappy jobs, my friends and I were coming to a point where we had less and less in common and some of us had new partners taking up our time. My dreams and reality felt miles apart. I remember watching a season 2 re-run at that time and thinking how great the chemistry was between Buffy, Willow and Xander and what a pity it was the show didn't have that anymore. And then it hit me that my own friendships had become exactly like that and that what was happening on Buffy was a reflection of growing up. I think it was actually really brave of the series to grow like that.

Personally I would have affiliated the friendships breaking down more with S4 than with S6. While it was the whole gang that was at odds in S4 Buffy alienated herself from the group in S6 and became "disillusioned" with life. But I totally agree with your assessment about friends drifting.

iguana

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Personally I would have affiliated the friendships breaking down more with S4 than with S6. While it was the whole gang that was at odds in S4 Buffy alienated herself from the group in S6 and became "disillusioned" with life. But I totally agree with your assessment about friends drifting.

But by season 6 Willow's relationship was breaking down because of her absorption with power. While Xander was terrified of his future and the responsibilities he had brought down on himself. Buffy had disillusionment, responsibility, resentment and a relationship she didn't want to be in. The old dynamic just wasn't there. They were still friends, but it wasn't enough for any of them anymore.

I get what you are saying about S4 and their friendship coming apart. But that is a natural reworking of a group in a new situation. They worked that out and in season 5 were very much a unit again. Just like all of us go through when we leave school lose touch with some of our group and have to accept in others. But it's still carefree and after initial reservations it becomes a positive force again. In season 6 it was much bleaker and disillusionment and insecurity was very much the theme, which I think hits most of us as we really enter the adult world.

Handsome Bob

iguana wrote: »

But by season 6 Willow's relationship was breaking down because of her absorption with power. While Xander was terrified of his future and the responsibilities he had brought down on himself. Buffy had disillusionment, responsibility, resentment and a relationship she didn't want to be in. The old dynamic just wasn't there. They were still friends, but it wasn't enough for any of them anymore.

I get what you are saying about S4 and their friendship coming apart. But that is a natural reworking of a group in a new situation. They worked that out and in season 5 were very much a unit again. Just like all of us go through when we leave school lose touch with some of our group and have to accept in others. But it's still carefree and after initial reservations it becomes a positive force again. In season 6 it was much bleaker and disillusionment and insecurity was very much the theme, which I think hits most of us as we really enter the adult world.

Although there was an improvement in the gang's relationship in S5, it seemed to me that they were still very much different people with less in common and not as much a unit as they once were. Xander was beginning his success in construction and was with Anya. Willow was very much involved in her relationship with Tara and Buffy loaded herself with the responsibility of looking after her mother and sister. To me, they never really got back to being a unit where they depended on each other. Even when Joyce died, Buffy only got solace in Angel's arms instead of opening up to Xander or Willow.

S.M.B.

I could never understand the disliking of BtVS Season 4. It's probably my favourite of all the seasons still.

I think the season long arcs from season 4 on suffered a little but a lot of the better stand alone episodes are from Buffys later stages imo.

I might start from season 1 and work my way through it all again. :pac:

Heckler

Elmo wrote: »

:mad:

Not my kind of show at all. I was looking forward to buffy when it first started. But really its just Dawson's Creek with a vampire mask on.

And then there where the people who used to tell me it deals with so many issues, If I want issues I will watch a better show.

The acting was dreadful and stilled, it is surprising that it continued for as long as it did. The comedy was as low as you can get. A huge dissappointment.

As a comedy/horror Buffy is really overshadowed by Reaper, it may not be a good show but at least it doesn't take itself seriously.

Angel went in a strange direction, and became even less of a comedy/horror.

I think their are better horror TV shows that could have been selected for Halloween week.

Millenium
The X Files
Alfred Hitchcock Presents
The Twilight Zone
Salems' Lot (1970s version, and the book mainly)

Just not a fan of this OMG teeny drama. However the opening titles are some of the best in recent years.

You have got to be kidding me. I'd put Millennium top of my list but to say that the acting was bad and the comedy low in either Buffy or Angel you are way off the mark. To compare it to Reaper is an insult. Either you don't get subtle comedy or you only appreciate in your face/spelt out for you jokes.

Whatever about Buffy, Angel had some of the most subtle and self-deprecating humour on any tv show. This is coming from a 35year old male. I think you meant "stilted" btw.

Every show you list was great but, apart from the odd moment in X-files, completely void of humour.

As for taking themselves too seriously....

Have you seen the musical episode of Buffy ???

Elmo

I didn't suggest that Reaper was any better then Buffy, I just find that Buffy takes it self way to seriously, Reaper knows its bad and the actors are able to detract from the terrible show that it is. Again not trying to suggest the acting is good in Reaper, it isn't.

The acting in "Buffy" isn't good, look at the "Freaks and Geeks" brilliant acting, Buffy and these other teen dramas come nowhere close.

To me Buffy is one of those silly shows that you secretly watch and enjoy.

For example I like Smallville, which I am sure many here would consider totally devoid of any sense of humour, even I know it has no sense of humour. But it isn't a show of the week IMO. And the acting is just as wooden as Buffy.

Have you seen the musical episode of Buffy ???

A show trying to take the piss out of itself, it just ends up being car crash TV.

I amn't suggesting anyone should agree with me, it is just my view point.

Handsome Bob

Elmo wrote: »

I didn't suggest that Reaper was any better then Buffy, I just find that Buffy takes it self way to seriously, Reaper knows its bad and the actors are able to detract from the terrible show that it is. Again not trying to suggest the acting is good in Reaper, it isn't.

The acting in "Buffy" isn't good, look at the "Freaks and Geeks" brilliant acting, Buffy and these other teen dramas come nowhere close.

To me Buffy is one of those silly shows that you secretly watch and enjoy.

For example I like Smallville, which I am sure many here would consider totally devoid of any sense of humour, even I know it has no sense of humour. But it isn't a show of the week IMO. And the acting is just as wooden as Buffy.



A show trying to take the piss out of itself, it just ends up being car crash TV.

I amn't suggesting anyone should agree with me, it is just my view point.

Maybe you might enjoy watching the 1992 film more. >_>

Why don't you show me a consistent example of how the acting on Buffy, a critically acclaimed show, is wooden? The only acting that I found underwhelming (in the core cast) was from Michelle Trachtenberg.

Mr E

Acting in the first year or so was pretty ropey from most core cast members I think.... SMG, Nicholas Brendon, Alyson Hannigan... they were all pretty dodgy. They improved with experience though.

Basq

Mr E wrote: »

Acting in the first year or so was pretty ropey from most core cast members I think.... SMG, Nicholas Brendon, Alyson Hannigan... they were all pretty dodgy. They improved with experience though.

I'd agree with that alright... they were all pretty young and.. well, "amateurish"

Handsome Bob

Mr E wrote: »

Acting in the first year or so was pretty ropey from most core cast members I think.... SMG, Nicholas Brendon, Alyson Hannigan... they were all pretty dodgy. They improved with experience though.

In the bigger picture, season one probably did have the worst acting. All the same, out of seven seasons, one season of "mediocre" acting is hardly a case for calling the acting "wooden" in general.

Heckler

I'd agree up to a point. But even in series one the quality of writing made the dodgy acting acceptable. When the characters got into their stride twas a rock and roll ride all the way. Anyone who says different is just plain wrong. I can dislke a show (sex and the city to name but one) but still recognise that it is very well written and acted. I just don't like it.

Ergo, while I appreciate it if someone doesn't like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, they would be wrong to call it badly written or acted. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Don't get me started on Different Strokes. What you talkin's bout Willis ?

S.M.B.

I agree that I can understand people not liking BtVS but to claim the show as being average in any way is just plain wrong.

Dawsons Creek with a vampire mask on? That's a silly comparison really.

iguana

Heckler wrote: »

Ergo, while I appreciate it if someone doesn't like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, they would be wrong to call it badly written or acted.

QFT.

Elmo

Perhaps it was because I only really saw season 1 that maybe why I think the acting is quite wooden. I think many of these teen dramas suffer from wooden acting, while not wanting to compare it to BH 90210 (or any show for that matter, careful now!) I do think it suffers from similarly bad acting. I don't think "Buffy" is a good actress. Again I don't think you could honestly compare the cast of "Buffy" with the cast of "Freeks and Geeks".

As for writing I think people here might just be a bit bias.

Dawsons Creek with a vampire mask on? That's a silly comparison really.

That comes from the person who told me it deals with issues in the same way "Dawson" does, hence the comparison. I think they thought I liked Dawsons Creek

Handsome Bob

Elmo wrote: »

Perhaps it was because I only really saw season 1 that maybe why I think the acting is quite wooden. I think many of these teen dramas suffer from wooden acting, while not wanting to compare it to BH 90210 (or any show for that matter, careful now!) I do think it suffers from similarly bad acting. I don't think "Buffy" is a good actress. Again I don't think you could honestly compare the cast of "Buffy" with the cast of "Freeks and Geeks".

As for writing I think people here might just be a bit bias.




That comes from the person who told me it deals with issues in the same way "Dawson" does, hence the comparison. I think they thought I liked Dawsons Creek

That makes a lot more sense. Seriously you probably don't care enough but watch S2 and S3, two seasons where I thought the plot and the acting excelled.

And I'm not biased. I'm the first to hold my hand up and say when a season has been a disappointment, such as S4 and S6.

S.M.B.

If you've only seen most of Season 1 then you can't really comment on the quality of BtVS tbh.

The writing is probably the shows strongest point.

And comparing the acting to a show like Freaks and Geeks (which I adore) is a little unfair as they are two completely diferent shows.

Elmo

And comparing the acting to a show like Freaks and Geeks (which I adore) is a little unfair as they are two completely diferent shows.

I think personally think "Freaks and Geeks" should be used as a guide to US teen drama. There are very few, actually I cann't think of any teen dramas that come close to its honesty, acting skills, enjoyment and writing.

Tell ye what I will rent out Buffy season 2 from xtravision if I can and I will get back to you. I might be eating my words.

Basq

Comparing anything to the quality of Freaks and Geeks is unfair.. it trumps practically all in the genre due to the fact it was so unique.

But Elmo.. take it from me that Buffy was incredibly well-written in it's prime.

KombuchaMshroom

I absolutely love buffy, my only problem with it is its too addictive and possibly ruining my leaving cert for me. i was pretty young when the show was on tv and i didnt really appreciate it that much i think, so i got a loan of the complete collection recently, and right now when i should be studying for my irish, english, french and accounting tests tomorrow instead i am going to finish off the rest of season 3. just on to graduation day part 1 now, probably 2 of the best episodes in the series coming up so havent a hope of getting much study done.
oh well....

S.M.B.

Elmo wrote: »

I think personally think "Freaks and Geeks" should be used as a guide to US teen drama. There are very few, actually I cann't think of any teen dramas that come close to its honesty, acting skills, enjoyment and writing.

Tell ye what I will rent out Buffy season 2 from xtravision if I can and I will get back to you. I might be eating my words.

I agree Freaks & Geeks should be used as a benchmark for teen based dramas but Buffy is a very very different type of show.

The reason Freaks & Geeks works so well is because it's probably the most realistic portayal of teenage life shown on TV before.

The shows are just so different that you can't really compare them.

Handsome Bob

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

I absolutely love buffy, my only problem with it is its too addictive and possibly ruining my leaving cert for me. i was pretty young when the show was on tv and i didnt really appreciate it that much i think, so i got a loan of the complete collection recently, and right now when i should be studying for my irish, english, french and accounting tests tomorrow instead i am going to finish off the rest of season 3. just on to graduation day part 1 now, probably 2 of the best episodes in the series coming up so havent a hope of getting much study done.
oh well....

Awesome finale, really loved it. But hell I loved every finale except for Restless (S4 finale).:pac:

Heckler

Not biased at all. There were many episodes of BtVS that didn't work. But you cannot compare it to a show like "freaks and Geeks", that I'll admit I only ever saw maybe 3 episodes of but they are two totally different shows. Buffy is widely regarded as one of the best written shows of its time regardless of genre.

Elmo

Heckler wrote: »

Not biased at all. There were many episodes of BtVS that didn't work. But you cannot compare it to a show like "freaks and Geeks", that I'll admit I only ever saw maybe 3 episodes of but they are two totally different shows. Buffy is widely regarded as one of the best written shows of its time regardless of genre.

Sorry I am really going to have to disagree with "Buffy is widely regarded .....".

ER, The Practice, The West Wing, Oz, Six Feet Under and again Freaks and Geeks. There are many more a head of Buffy even a few Irish shows.

Handsome Bob

Elmo wrote: »

Sorry I am really going to have to disagree with "Buffy is widely regarded .....".

ER, The Practice, The West Wing, Oz, Six Feet Under and again Freaks and Geeks. There are many more a head of Buffy even a few Irish shows.

And yet he doesn't mention The Wire, The Sopranos or Lost. And may I ask what these Irish shows are (bear in mind Father Ted started on Channel 4)?

What has all these shows got to do with how well regarded Buffy the Vampire Slayer is anyway?

Elmo

LZ5by5 wrote: »

And yet he doesn't mention The Wire, The Sopranos or Lost. And may I ask what these Irish shows are (bear in mind Father Ted started on Channel 4)?

What has all these shows got to do with how well regarded Buffy the Vampire Slayer is anyway?

I didn't mention The Wire because I felt it was a bit outside Buffy, as it began in 2002 AFAIK "Buffy" ended in 2003. The Sopranos absolutely and Lost again start in around 2003.

As for the Irish Dramas well Batchelor's Walk and Paths to Freedom.

I didn't realize we where talking about Genre, as this is TV Shows of the Week not Comedy/Horror of the week. Hence the mention of programming outside of the genre comedy/horror. But you are right Buffy is probably one of the best comedy/horrors on the TV out of 3 I can think of.