Irish Squad named.

RuggieBear

http://irishrugby.ie/283_13832.php

Brian O’Driscoll has been named Captain of the Ireland squad for the upcoming GUINNESS Series against Canada in Thomond Park on November 8 and versus New Zealand and Argentina in Croke Park on November 15 and 22 respectively.

The 85 times capped, 29 years old, who has already captained Ireland on over 40 occasions, heads a squad of 41 players, who assemble for a week’s training in Limerick on Monday next.

At the conclusion of that camp, the Ireland squad will be reduced to approximately 30 players, from which the 22-man squad to play Canada will be named.

New Ireland coach Declan Kidney said: “I am delighted that Brian has agreed to Captain the squad for the GUINNESS Series 2008. I have also opted to name a bigger squad than originally anticipated so that we can continue to familiarise a largely new-look backroom staff with a wider group of players.

“Our games assume additional importance this year considering their significance as regards our seeding position going into the World Cup 2011 draw being made in December.

“We are currently ranked 8th – just ahead of Scotland – so the fact that it is paramount to at least maintain a Top 8 ranking, underlines the additional importance of our results against Canada, New Zealand and Argentina.”

Ireland Squad, Guinness Series 2008

Backs:

Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)

Ian Dowling (Shannon – Munster)

Girvan Dempsey (Terenure College – Leinster)

Gavin Duffy (Galwegians – Connacht)

Keith Earls (Young Munster – Munster)

Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College – Leinster)

Shane Horgan (Boyne – Leinster)

Robert Kearney (UCD – Leinster)

Geordan Murphy (Leicester)

Barry Murphy (UL Bohemians – Munster)

Brian O’Driscoll (UCD – Leinster) Captain

Ronan O’Gara (Cork Constitution – Munster)

Tomas O’Leary (Dolphin – Munster)

Eoin Reddan (Wasps)

Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary’s College – Leinster)

Peter Stringer (Shannon – Munster)

Andrew Trimble (Ballymena – Ulster)

Paddy Wallace (Ballymena – Ulster)

Forwards:

Rory Best (Banbridge – Ulster)

Tony Buckley (Shannon – Munster)

Ryan Caldwell (Dungannon – Ulster)

Bob Casey (London Irish)

Tom Court (Malone – Ulster)

Stephen Ferris (Dungannon – Ulster)

Jerry Flannery (Shannon – Munster)

John Hayes (Shannon – Munster)

Cian Healy (Clontarf – Leinster)

Jamie Heaslip (Naas – Leinster)

Marcus Horan (Shannon – Munster)

Bernard Jackman (Clontarf – Leinster)

Shane Jennings (St. Mary’s College – Leinster)

Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution – Munster)

Donncha O’Callaghan (Cork Constitution – Munster)

Paul O’Connell (Young Munster – Munster)

Malcolm O’Kelly (St. Mary’s College – Leinster)

Mick O’Driscoll (Cork Constitution – Munster)

Alan Quinlan (Shannon – Munster)

Michael Ross (Harlequins)

Donncha Ryan (Shannon – Munster)

David Wallace (Garryowen – Munster)

Roger Wilson (Northampton)

RuggieBear

tbh 41 players means practically everyone has been picked. lol

anonymous_joe

I kind of wanted Johne Murphy.

Ah well, he avoided making the tough calls well enough.

bugler

It's a fairly meaningless squad at that size. Only when it gets to 30 is it anyway interesting...and even then...

bamboozle

how mick o driscoll and barry murphy are selected is beyond me, granted Murphy has played a bit this season but he just cannot pass the ball.

Disappointing not to see younger lads like Keatley & Tonar getting a change, i'd have had Johnny O'Connor ahead of Wilson.

death1234567

No Keatley or Muldoon?? Look at all those joke Ulster players in the squad. BOD as captain, don't make me puke. More of the same from Kidney...

zAbbo

I don't see the point in picking players in an extended squad who have nothing to gain or give to the squad in the future.

You could cull some of those lads and put in younger players who would really gain from the week long training experience.

The A's aren't playing until February, so there's a missed chance to bring lads like Johne Murphy, Devin Toner, Ian Keatley, Frank Murphy or Mark McCrea.

The fact that there's 41, would it have been too much to add in the above 5 players?

Instead we've got Mick O'Driscoll, Barry Murphy and Ian Dowling

Podge_irl

Disappointed to see Dowling, B Murphy, Duffy, M O'Driscoll there. Disappointed not to see Keatley, or anyone from Connacht bar Duffy actually.

Crash

aye probably would've been worthwhile bringing Frank Murphy, Keatley, Toner etc. in place of those who blatantly aren't gonna be in the 30 squad.

Amazotheamazing

Em, O'driscoll is still a much better player than Toner, and he's still relatively young, only 29 or so. I'd love to see Toner make it at International level, and in time perhaps he will, but it's too soon for him.

Surprised Sexton is preferred over Keatley and agree Barry Murphy is lucky to be there. Would have like to have seen Carr, Cronin and F. Murphy from Connacht involved too.

spoon

I don't see too many issues with naming the large number of players at this stage. There doesn't seem to be any position where a player can sit back and think his spot is safe. Having competition for every spot is a great thing. Agreed there are players who won't have much chance for a spot, but at least they'll push the players who should be getting those spots.

Podge_irl

Toner has played almost two full HC games for Leinster and was reasonably impressive in both. O'Driscoll has played 4 ML games (two as a sub) for Munster. I'd have Toner over Caldwell either actually, I just think it would do him good to be in the squad. O'Driscoll is, at most, going to play against Canada (and even that I doubt). It just seems kind of pointless.

Given the size of the squad I'm surprised Sexton and Keatley weren't both included. There is a rake of outside backs (at least counting Wallace as purely a 12).

Goodluck2me

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Em, O'driscoll is still a much better player than Toner, and he's still relatively young, only 29 or so. I'd love to see Toner make it at International level, and in time perhaps he will, but it's too soon for him.

Surprised Sexton is preferred over Keatley and agree Barry Murphy is lucky to be there. Would have like to have seen Carr, Cronin and F. Murphy from Connacht involved too.

QFT, shambles that Sexton is there ahead of Keatley tbh.

Kdub

Keatley has one good game against Leinster and then should be included?? whereas Sexton has been performing for the last couple of seasons and is more likely to take over from o'gara when he retires.... abit early to pick Keatley over Sexton dont you think??

jam_on_toast

very dissapointed with that squad. no vision at all.

death1234567

Kdub wrote: »

abit early to pick Keatley over Sexton dont you think??

No I don't. The squad should be picked on current form and Keatley has played very well for connacht this season, not just the leinster game. Although his "invisible trampoline" kick preparation thing is terrible.

zAbbo

death1234567 wrote: »

No I don't. The squad should be picked on current form and Keatley has played very well for connacht this season, not just the leinster game. Although his "invisible trampoline" kick preparation thing is terrible.

Keatley outshone Sexton as far back as the Churchill Cup, and the one thing I'd say for Sexton is he reacted really badly at being picked for that squad in the 1st place. I don't think I've ever seen a conversion charged down before...

Sexton has also been brutal this season, last Saturdays cameo aside.

I think both of them should be in the squad though...

2 fly halves in a 41 man squad is ridiclulous

Amazotheamazing

I rate Sexton, I think he has enough ability to play international rugby, but he is not having a good season, and certainly not a good enough season (so far) to play a top tier International team. He was very mixed in the Churchill Cup, and hasn't really picked up from there, imo.

Keatley however, has improved a lot since even last season, and while he too, couldn't play against a top tier country, he's done a enough to say he's in better form than Sexton.

spoon

jam_on_toast wrote: »

very dissapointed with that squad. no vision at all.

Other than Johnny Murphy and Keatley im not sure on many other players which could have made an impact to improve this selection.

bamboozle

The problem with selecting Mick O’Driscoll is that he’s roughly the same age as POC, DOC, Casey, Trevor Hogan & Leo Cullen.
At least if Tonar was included in the squad ahead of him it would be with a view to developing for the future, which as u can see all our 2nd rows are roughly the same age, the next breed will be Donncadh Ryan, Ryan Caldwell & Tonar.

If u look at it this way, lions tour is on this summer so our front line players will be there, so then who fills the gaps in the 2009 Irish summer tour (not sure where it is to) do we plug the squad with our golden oldies like big mal, and hayes and stringer and quinlan and Dempsey or do we foresee that now and even bring a few younger players into the squad now like keatley & tonar with a view to next summer them being somewhat bedded in?

Cast your mind back to the last lions tour 2005, the irish team toured Japan that summer had Reggie Corrigan, Tony Foley, David Humphrey, Eric Miller, Easterby, Frankie Sheahan, Anthony Horgan, Kevin Maggs, - how many of those lads were around for the 2007 world cup 2 summers after that!

Crash

heh, just thinking, I don't think Leo Cullen actually wants to play for Ireland. So his plan is to get a smack every game before it so that he doesn't have to. Cunning.

TarfHead

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Em, O'driscoll is still a much better player than Toner, and he's still relatively young, only 29 or so.

Last weekend Toner played well in the HEC against Simon Shaw & Tom Palmer. Mick O'Driscoll was playing for Con in the AIL.

Kidney has 3 years to get a squad ready for RWC 2011. O'Driscoll won't be in contention at that stage.

Kdub

bamboozle wrote: »

The problem with selecting Mick O’Driscoll is that he’s roughly the same age as POC, DOC, Casey, Trevor Hogan & Leo Cullen.
At least if Tonar was included in the squad ahead of him it would be with a view to developing for the future, which as u can see all our 2nd rows are roughly the same age, the next breed will be Donncadh Ryan, Ryan Caldwell & Tonar.

If u look at it this way, lions tour is on this summer so our front line players will be there, so then who fills the gaps in the 2009 Irish summer tour (not sure where it is to) do we plug the squad with our golden oldies like big mal, and hayes and stringer and quinlan and Dempsey or do we foresee that now and even bring a few younger players into the squad now like keatley & tonar with a view to next summer them being somewhat bedded in?

Cast your mind back to the last lions tour 2005, the irish team toured Japan that summer had Reggie Corrigan, Tony Foley, David Humphrey, Eric Miller, Easterby, Frankie Sheahan, Anthony Horgan, Kevin Maggs, - how many of those lads were around for the 2007 world cup 2 summers after that!

No summer tour next season as British or Irish teams dont tour while there is a lions tour on!!

toomevara

Oh come on folks, this squad virtually picks itself...not really worthy of debate till you get down to a 20 or 22.....

As for the Keatley/Sexton thing...both good players with a solid future, but lets all say our Novenas that the baby jesus keeps ROG fit....for my money its right that sexton is in...but I hope to christ he doesn't have to face a full game in an Irish shirt at any point this season...

Diom

First off, I am a totally biased Connacht supporter....

but...

O'Connor is good enough to give Jennings and Wallace a run for thier money at 7. He has been consistently class there for Connacht for the last 2 seasons (one or two off games asides). Yet he's not on a 41 man squad! While Leamy who is injured and not going to be fit to play is...that's just a slap in the face. Or Ryan who plays only rarely and the he is out of position.
I wouldn't mind Ryan being in there if there was a sense of building for the future about the squad, but there isn't.
As for Sexton, fair enough it was always a toss up, but I think that Keatley deserved it more on current form.
MulDOOM should be there as well...a 25 year old back row who is captaining the Connacht resurgence, and played 10 full games already this season.
Johne Murphy would have been welcome, as would Frank Murphy, who looks a lot more likely to me than Mr.O'Leary.
MOD and MOK are still in the squad...it's bleeping ridiculous.

As I've said elsewhere, it's up to the players now to stand up and be counted. Maybe Kidney was trying to keep the Connacht team together to see what they can do, but I doubt it. This was an introduction to the people he will be playing with for the next year. It's a shut out for Connacht unless the lads keep getting the wins they need in the ML and get their HEC place for next year.

bamboozle

Kdub wrote: »

No summer tour next season as British or Irish teams dont tour while there is a lions tour on!!

not actually true, as i said above last Lions tour Irish International team played 2 tests in Japan, same summer Wales played US Eagles & Canada, its a fact of professional rugby that all country's tour in their off season now to generate much needed tv revenue

SpAcEd OuT

re : Sexton vs Keatley

I would definitely put Sexton ahead as unlike Keatley he has been consistently performing for a few seasons at the top level and despite Keatley having a good game against Leinster and an overall good season I still do not think he is on par with Sexton. Honestly Sexton has one or two bad games this season and suddenly he is considered below Keatley! Its not logical.
Oh and in so far as the CC Sexton actually played well it was only his kicking that wasn't up to scratch and that is not the norm for him.

I would defintely of taken out fringe players such as Dowling, MOD etc. and put in Keatley and possibly Toner as well though.

anonymous_joe

It could be a much worse squad.

The obvious omissions are - anyone from Connacht. I'd have wanted Johnny O'Connor in a 41 man squad.
- Johne Murphy, a talented Irish winger's a rarity. Why isn't he included?
- Keatley - too young in fairness, probably wasn't a viable call yet.
- Muldoon
- Toner and some of the younger forwards.

Other than that, it's not a bad selection given what we have...

Kdub

bamboozle wrote: »

not actually true, as i said above last Lions tour Irish International team played 2 tests in Japan, same summer Wales played US Eagles & Canada, its a fact of professional rugby that all country's tour in their off season now to generate much needed tv revenue

Ireland A play the eagles and canada during the churchhill cup and beat them on a regular basis with the A team so dont see that as much of a tour??

Stev_o

Seriously where is the logic in leaving out a winger in Johnny Murphy who so far has scored 5 tries this season and yet pick Horgan who has done sweet f*ck all.

Im fairly pissed off about that our second biggest trouble position and DK leaves out one of the very few wingers who is consistent and scores tries

zAbbo

The less said about those 2 Japenese tests the better

Kdub

Stev_o wrote: »

Seriously where is the logic in leaving out a winger in Johnny Murphy who so far has scored 5 tries this season and yet pick Horgan who has done sweet f*ck all.

Im fairly pissed off about that our second biggest trouble position and DK leaves out one of the very few wingers who is consistent and scores tries

I totally agree, but i think with the number of guys who have been picked that can play wing as well as there other position may have counted against Johnny M; take Rob kearney,Luke Fitzgerald and keith earls just to name a few who also have great speed and finish tries well as you've seen already this season.

zAbbo

Kdub wrote: »

I totally agree, but i think with the number of guys who have been picked that can play wing as well as there other position may have counted against Johnny M; take Rob kearney,Luke Fitzgerald and keith earls just to name a few who also have great speed and finish tries well as you've seen already this season.

There is no benefit in leaving Johne Murphy over in Leicester, then calling him up in the A's 5 months time.

Get him over, and have a look at him for a week, he's not going to make the 30 man cut, but at least integrate him with the full squad.

We've far too small a playing pool to not select form players.

jam_on_toast

spoon wrote: »

Other than Johnny Murphy and Keatley im not sure on many other players which could have made an impact to improve this selection.

leaving them out is terrible call. murphy is a form winger, something we dont have many of. And we desperately need to have new options at 10, picking 2 outhalves in a squad of 41 is a joke.

Toner should be in for mick o'driscoll. MOD has shown he is not up to international standard.

Would like to have seen frank murphy given a shot too.

Stev_o

Kdub wrote: »

I totally agree, but i think with the number of guys who have been picked that can play wing as well as there other position may have counted against Johnny M; take Rob kearney,Luke Fitzgerald and keith earls just to name a few who also have great speed and finish tries well as you've seen already this season.

Kearney is not a wing by any means a fantastic player that he is he goes missing on the wing for most games which isnt is fault he is a in and out FB. Lets actually put a specialist winger on the goddamn wing for god's sake. How many tries have Downling and Horgan scored this season opposed to Murphy?

bleg

disappointed to see horgan and o kelly in there.

anonymous_joe

zAbbo wrote: »

There is no benefit in leaving Johne Murphy over in Leicester, then calling him up in the A's 5 months time.

Get him over, and have a look at him for a week, he's not going to make the 30 man cut, but at least integrate him with the full squad.

We've far too small a playing pool to not select form players.

Why wouldn't he make it given that we currently have one specialist winger in the squad in Horgan?

TarfHead

bleg wrote: »

disappointed to see horgan and o kelly in there.

Yeah, Mal had a shocker last weekend :rolleyes:

zAbbo

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Why wouldn't he make it given that we currently have one specialist winger in the squad in Horgan?

I'm arguing that we need him over for that very reason.

And Tommy Bowe is the only specialist winger we have

You can't leave Horgan out, he always puts in a performance for Ireland.

SpAcEd OuT

bleg wrote: »

disappointed to see horgan and o kelly in there.

Do you not like O'Kelly or something??

right now he is the most in form Irish lock avaliable.

Stev_o

SpAcEd OuT wrote: »

Do you not like O'Kelly or something??

right now he is the most in form Irish lock avaliable.

We said that last year and he ended up being useless in the 6N how the hell is he supposed to live with the pace of the AB game

Amazotheamazing

zAbbo wrote: »

I'm arguing that we need him over for that very reason.

And Tommy Bowe is the only specialist winger we have

You can't leave Horgan out, he always puts in a performance for Ireland.

Is Bowe a specialist winger? He played fullback for schools and in his early time with the Irish underage teams.

He has played a bit in centre too, for Ulster and of course, this season for the Ospreys.

Amazotheamazing

jam_on_toast wrote: »

leaving them out is terrible call. murphy is a form winger, something we dont have many of. And we desperately need to have new options at 10, picking 2 outhalves in a squad of 41 is a joke.

Toner should be in for mick o'driscoll. MOD has shown he is not up to international standard.

Would like to have seen frank murphy given a shot too.

When was MOD shown not to be International standard?

Aidric

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

He has played a bit in centre too, for Ulster and of course, this season for the Ospreys.

Ya he has been playing in the centre for the Ospreys this season and playing very well there. No big surprises for me with the squad announcement, a strong squad IMO. I have to admit I know dam all about Court from Ulster, however,

SpAcEd OuT

Stev_o wrote: »

We said that last year and he ended up being useless in the 6N how the hell is he supposed to live with the pace of the AB game

You can hardly use his age against him he is just as fit as all the other Leinster players picked for Ireland all of which are deemed able to live with the pace of the AB game.

SpAcEd OuT

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

When was MOD shown not to be International standard?

I don't think hes ever been shown up but hes never excelled or made any kind of impact that would warrent his selection above far more exciting prospects.

redroar1942

The inclusion of Cort and Ross shows just how dire the proping situation in Ireland is.

Calls for Toners inclusion are laughable, he's the third best second row in Leinster and the two in front of him have'nt a snowballs chance of starting for Ireland. He's showing good promise but he's no where near international standard yet.

Johne Murphy is an interesting one, I think 15 is his best position but as he gets little game time there he gets shunted out to the wing. His try per game ratio for this season looks decent mainly because of a hat trick against that european powerhouse Treviso. He's not blessed with blistering pace but has a serious rugby brain and was probaly worth a look.

d-gal

Leaving Muldoon and O'Connor out is a joke really, especially if the likes of Wilson is in the squad, the GP has proved its below average compared to the ML and he hasn't even played well for the saints.
Barry Murphy is another funny call, a guy prone to injury with hardly any match experience under his belt. Could have definitely drafted in Keatley or Carr for good experience and an award for great form with an average team.
Re: Keatley/Sexton
Keatley has played so much better than him since the CC, and with a bad team. Sexton has the creme de la creme beside him and he still underperforms. imagine what keatley could do with quality around him

marco_polo

Whats with all the negativity?

I see a strong squad with key players in great form and I am very much looking forward to the three AI games ahead.

Not much point in quibbling over the exact compostion of the tackle bag holders in the 41 man squad.

Podge_irl

redroar1942 wrote: »

The inclusion of Cort and Ross shows just how dire the proping situation in Ireland is.

Court is actually a decent enough prop. He only started playing rugby when he was in university so its taken him a while to get up to speed but he always had the right physical attributes for it. He's doing well for Ulster with BJ Botha beside him.

Calls for Toners inclusion are laughable, he's the third best second row in Leinster and the two in front of him have'nt a snowballs chance of starting for Ireland. He's showing good promise but he's no where near international standard yet.

Its a squad of 41 players. I think some people would like some future prospects there as well as possible starters in order for them to get experience (mind you Caldwell and Ryan are there as young second rows, though as I said I would have Toner in ahead of Caldwell at the moment).

il gatto

I would've liked Johnny O'Connor and Keatley in there somewhere, but I don't think it's that bad. I suppose they wanted to bring in a load of players in case the new coaches saw some potential that's been missed along the line. Obviously there's alot of players that'll not be anywhere near the 22, but at least there's loads getting looked at, which is what everyone bitched about with O'Sullivan. I'm sure Keatley, Frank Murphy, Ross and Cave will all get looked at prior to the 6N. You have to start somewhere.