Abuse

rflynnr

Here's one. Just came into work (on bike). Heading up Mobhi Road in Glasnevin, a car beeps from behind. Since I was cycling in an uncontroversial fashion I ignored it assuming that it couldn't refer to me. However, after a second I looked back to see the driver gesturing furiously at me. I invited him to pull over with my own gesture (a polite one, honestly) so we could discuss whatever the problem was. As it happened there was no need for the invitation: he pulled alongside, wound down the window and bellowed "RIDE ON THE F**KING CYCLE LANE!" before speeding off up the road.

Now, by any standards this is aggressive/threatening behaviour (although I suppose if he was really serious he would have taken up my invitation and gotten physical). However, I'm wondering whether its worth pursuing with the Guards given the following:

1. I've no witness (actually there were loads but they were all in cars and no-one stopped).
2. I don't have more than a vehicle model, make and colour plus the first three digits of the reg.
3. There is in fact a cycle lane at the point he did the bellowing, albeit one of the ones only a masochist would use. (It takes you off the road and onto the path for exactly 90metres before depositing you back onto the same road. Furthermore there's no slip to allow you to reintegrate into traffic - you're expected to enter the road from a perpendicular approach.) So - the well-established feelings of this forum about mandatory cyclelanes apart - technically I shouldn't have been on the road.

Thoughts?

kenmc

The smartass response : "It's a cycle TRACK not a cycle LANE; This is a ROAD bike, not a TRACK bike."

72hundred

Drivers in Dublin seem to be suffering chronic self-induced stress - thinking that a 30 second delay is the be-all-and-end-all of their daily commute and they must be vigorously avoid the delay.

Turn the other cheek, and realise that the guy obviously hates being behind the wheel and you enjoy your cycle!

EDIT: Also cycle on road too. Cycle tracks (nod to kenmc;)) aren't for cyclists' benefit but rather to get the bike out of the way of the far more important cars/buses :mad:.

Gavin

rflynnr wrote: »

Thoughts?

Forget about it. Arseholes are arseholes.

Harrybelafonte

Verb wrote: »

Forget about it. Arseholes are arseholes.

What he said

rubadub

kenmc wrote: »

The smartass response : "It's a cycle TRACK not a cycle LANE; This is a ROAD bike, not a TRACK bike."

Or the confusing one to say is "thats actually a footpath, learn the rules of the road before you accuse me you kunt". Would work better if it is littered with pedestrians which is highly likely!

A lot are not signed correctly, and are technically footpaths, but even if it is one say it, since the fuming prick will probably go off and spend ages studying the rules of the road to prove himself right, which ain't a bad thing

Traumadoc

I got a visit from the police following a "disagreement" , it is very "behaviour modifying".

Lumen

I would answer "why?", but usually these people are not attempting to engage in dialogue, just vent (hence the winding up window and driving off).

They have no concept of why you would want to avoid the cycle lane, since they don't ride themselves. From his perspective he could have been looking out for you and frustrated by your lack of self-preservation instinct (I have been known to shout "get some f'king lights!" to unlit cyclists at night).

Sticks and stones and all that - be the bigger person.

rflynnr

Thanks all - I did ring Mountjoy just to see if they thought it was worth pursuing. The nice ban garda on the other end whilst sympathetic opined that even if they could find the guy a caution was all they could offer. Although I can see that might be "behaviour modifying";), on reflection I realise that what I really wanted was the opportunity to communicate precisely the kind of rationales for not going on a cycle path that this kind of forum has been so good at articulating. A caution is unlikely to communicate that so, I guess I'll let it lie.

There is a brief coda though: inevitably I caught up with and passed the same motorist minutes after the incident. The sensible thing would have been to have noted the his reg number. I did something else. I stood at the traffic lights as he passed and produced my mobile phone, camera lens facing him and made it very clear I was recording his passage. He clocked me doing this and - though maybe this is wishful thinking on my part - an expression of doubt seemed to pass over his face. If he'd wanted to take things further (I guess I mean get physical), that was his chance to stop and do so. Instead he turned his face away from the camera. I'd like to think that at some level he recognised that he behaved badly.

Chips Lovell

I just say "do you want your go?" That usually shuts them up. Most of these blokes are all talk and no trousers.

Junior

I find an ould shout of "Ahh yer mother" Normally works..

quietobserver

"Votre Mere"

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Turn around, smile, pull out into the middle of the lane and amble on down the road.

SetOverSet

Sean_K wrote: »

Turn around, smile, pull out into the middle of the lane and amble on down the road.

Was coming back from a spin the other week and saw a guy do exactly this alongside Marley. I nearly fell off my bike laughing

c0rk3r

rflynnr wrote: »

Here's one. Just came into work (on bike). Heading up Mobhi Road in Glasnevin, a car beeps from behind. Since I was cycling in an uncontroversial fashion I ignored it assuming that it couldn't refer to me. However, after a second I looked back to see the driver gesturing furiously at me. I invited him to pull over with my own gesture (a polite one, honestly) so we could discuss whatever the problem was. As it happened there was no need for the invitation: he pulled alongside, wound down the window and bellowed "RIDE ON THE F**KING CYCLE LANE!" before speeding off up the road.

Thoughts?

I cycle this route everyday to college. The road simply isnt wide enough to cater for both cyclist and motorist. Its a danger for the cyclist who have to deal with impatience aggressive motorists.I also worry for the guy in the car pulling out infront of oncoming traffic in the opposite direction. Theres nothing worse then a car up your arse whilst your climbing a hill. You dont even have to look around to feel the tension. What i do, which i know isnt going to be popular is to stay on the footpath until i reach the top of the hill. Solves both problems and i feel a hellva lot safer.

unionman

c0rk3r wrote: »

Theres nothing worse then a car up your arse whilst your climbing a hill. You dont even have to look around to feel the tension. What i do, which i know isnt going to be popular is to stay on the footpath until i reach the top of the hill. Solves both problems and i feel a hellva lot safer.

Sorry mate, no way. Take your position on the road and hold it, don't apologise for it. Most drivers won't have a problem, the ones that do are going to beep, gesture, rant, no more than that. And sure fuk 'em, where's the fire?

To the OP, been through similar experiences and at this stage I just ignore them all. Some motorist having a bad day...boo hoo. I've been that motorist too, you'd be surprised how quickly you get over it.

But let's not start making concessions by cycling on the footpath.

stopped_clock

unionman wrote: »

Sorry mate, no way. Take your position on the road and hold it, don't apologise for it. Most drivers won't have a problem, the ones that do are going to beep, gesture, rant, no more than that. And sure fuk 'em, where's the fire?

To the OP, been through similar experiences and at this stage I just ignore them all. Some motorist having a bad day...boo hoo. I've been that motorist too, you'd be surprised how quickly you get over it.

But let's not start making concessions by cycling on the footpath.

I tend to agree with unionman. You could get hassle from pedestrians on the pavement (and they'd be more in the right than the driver).... I've been in situations where I've got into more bother by trying to help motorists out than if I'd just held the road.

These days I prefer to make the drivers' minds up for them - sticking in the middle of the lane if it's too narrow to pass, then pulling in when there's room. Sometimes get more thanks for holding people up a bit and then making a bit of a gesture of getting out of the way.

Stark

rflynnr wrote: »

Thanks all - I did ring Mountjoy just to see if they thought it was worth pursuing. The nice ban garda on the other end whilst sympathetic opined that even if they could find the guy a caution was all they could offer. Although I can see that might be "behaviour modifying";), on reflection I realise that what I really wanted was the opportunity to communicate precisely the kind of rationales for not going on a cycle path that this kind of forum has been so good at articulating. A caution is unlikely to communicate that so, I guess I'll let it lie.

A caution might make him realise that his aggressive behaviour is more of an issue than someone using the wrong lane for 90 seconds.

hussey

rflynnr wrote: »

Now, by any standards this is aggressive/threatening behaviour (although I suppose if he was really serious he would have taken up my invitation and gotten physical). However, I'm wondering whether its worth pursuing with the Guards given the following:

So you offer to fight him or "get physical" .. and you want to take him to the guards for shouting at you ... :rolleyes:

RobFowl

Verb wrote: »

Forget about it. Arseholes are arseholes.

No argument with that

Lumen

rflynnr wrote: »

I stood at the traffic lights as he passed and produced my mobile phone, camera lens facing him and made it very clear I was recording his passage. He clocked me doing this and - though maybe this is wishful thinking on my part - an expression of doubt seemed to pass over his face. If he'd wanted to take things further (I guess I mean get physical), that was his chance to stop and do so. Instead he turned his face away from the camera. I'd like to think that at some level he recognised that he behaved badly.

I like this strategy. Even if you actually don't take a picture, it will discourage him from driving you off the road further along (unless he just runs you over then steals your phone).

Harrybelafonte

c0rk3r wrote: »

I cycle this route everyday to college. The road simply isnt wide enough to cater for both cyclist and motorist. Its a danger for the cyclist who have to deal with impatience aggressive motorists.I also worry for the guy in the car pulling out infront of oncoming traffic in the opposite direction. Theres nothing worse then a car up your arse whilst your climbing a hill. You dont even have to look around to feel the tension. What i do, which i know isnt going to be popular is to stay on the footpath until i reach the top of the hill. Solves both problems and i feel a hellva lot safer.

You're right it's a bad road, cycling or driving. Overtaking a cyclist on it is near impossible. There's a bus stop there as well so when driving you just have to sit patiently behind bus until it pulls off. Case of tough sh!t when driving. The amount of drivers who cut across into the oncoming lane as well is nuts. Though I agree with the sentiment that you shouldn't let bad drivers force you onto the footpath I empathise with the nervousness. But we all gotta share the road.

Gavin

I used go that route for a bit o hill exercise, but now I just go up the upper drumcondra road and turn onto Collins avenue. Plenty of room.

c0rk3r

This is the only stretch of footpath i cycle on and for good reason. Its the same as cyclists not using mandatory cycle tracks instead favouring the road because its safer. This stretch of road is the reason alot of people dont chose to cycle and i cant blame them. If you sat there one morning you'll notice every cyclist on the footpath because its just common sense. In every survey ive read ive notice the top reason people dont cycle is because of safety.

In the mornings traffic usually spans from town to the top of Mobhi road and in extreme cases can run as far back as DCU. So if your cycling on the road theres no room for cars to overtake you. They have to sit on your arse going 18-25km/h up the hill revving and beeping as you climb. Once you reach the top the window comes down and the verbal abuse starts. I cycle to college because i enjoy it. If i have to deal with this hassle, abuse and frustration every morning one of two things is going to happen. Im either going to stop cycling to college and take the bus or ill just use the footpath. Its a horrible way to start the morning and will leave you pissed of the whole day.

Alternatively you can turn down by botanic gardens -> bon secours -> turn right at the met office. Not as direct and a pain in the ass plus those secondary school girls shouting "will ya met her" has but me of that route altogether.

ANNNOONNYMUS

Can I just say that I in no way condone the act of smashing an abusive motorists window and then lobbing in an open 2l container of milk.

Lumen

ANNNOONNYMUS wrote: »

Can I just say that I in no way condone the act of smashing an abusive motorists window and then lobbing in an open 2l container of milk.

Now now Cyclopath, there's no need to sign up a new account just to post that.

blorg

c0rk3r wrote: »

This is the only stretch of footpath i cycle on and for good reason. Its the same as cyclists not using mandatory cycle tracks instead favouring the road because its safer. This stretch of road is the reason alot of people dont chose to cycle and i cant blame them. If you sat there one morning you'll notice every cyclist on the footpath because its just common sense. In every survey ive read ive notice the top reason people dont cycle is because of safety.

What do the motorists expect you to do exactly? Hardly use the footpath?

Ledgecubed

Sean_K wrote: »

Turn around, smile, pull out into the middle of the lane and amble on down the road.

Excellent! That's exactly what I do every time I get unnecessarily beeped. It's incredibly satisfying, although one guy nearly ran me off the road. He then pulled over, jumped out of his car and raved at me. I kept a straight face and calmly repeated 'you're embarassing yourself, get back in your car and drive away', until he ran out of steam and had to do just that.

It may be a poor reflection on me but I think these little incidents can really add to an outing.

unionman

@cOrk3r - cycling issues aside, I'm glad to hear someone gets attention from the girls while they are out cycling. Being an oulfella myself the only attention I get is from the odd abusive motorist...*sniff*

Muller_1

I was cycling down the grand canal on way to work this morning and I was beeped by a motorist, she was waving at me to move over to the left. I had to point out to her that I was in fact completely within the cycle lane and that a double decker bus had enough room to pass me by.

When I caught up with her at the next set of lights she won't even look in my direction. I think she was a bit embarrassed once she realized.

TinyExplosions

unionman wrote: »

@cOrk3r - cycling issues aside, I'm glad to hear someone gets attention from the girls while they are out cycling. Being an oulfella myself the only attention I get is from the odd abusive motorist...*sniff*

I dunno, you were looking fine at the traffic lights the other day...

Chips Lovell

unionman wrote: »

@cOrk3r - cycling issues aside, I'm glad to hear someone gets attention from the girls while they are out cycling. Being an oulfella myself the only attention I get is from the odd abusive motorist...*sniff*

I got wolf whistled at by a bunch of guys in a car going down Georges St the other week.

unionman

TinyExplosions wrote: »

I dunno, you were looking fine at the traffic lights the other day...

That's the nicest thing that anyone has ever said to me.;)

rflynnr

hussey wrote: »

So you offer to fight him or "get physical" .. and you want to take him to the guards for shouting at you ... :rolleyes:

Just to clarify: the offer was to discuss whatever his difficulty was. I did nothing that could have remotely been construed as spoiling for a fight. My point was that by offering to stop for discussion I was presenting myself as a target to a driver who had already clearly demonstrated aggressive behaviour. Believe me when I say that I have never and would never resort to violence - or even the threat of violence - as a means of dealing with this kind of situation. To do so would be to descend to the driver's level.

TinyExplosions

el tonto wrote: »

I got wolf whistled at by a bunch of guys in a car going down Georges St the other week.

It was the pinstripe suit and white SIDI's that did it I'll bet

TinyExplosions

unionman wrote: »

That's the nicest thing that anyone has ever said to me.;)

You're welcome big boy

Chips Lovell

TinyExplosions wrote: »

It was the pinstripe suit and white SIDI's that did it I'll bet

No, was in my Orwell kit at the time. I asked them if they liked what they saw. Cue speeding off with sheepish looks.

unionman

el tonto wrote: »

No, was in my Orwell kit at the time. I asked them if they liked what they saw. Cue speeding off with sheepish looks.

I like it!

I told a beeping, tailing motorist once that if he wanted to rear-end me it was dinner and a movie minimum.*

So son't go thinking flattery will get you any further Tiny, I do have standards you know!!**

*See that? I managed to stay on topic

**And by 'standards' I mean I'm really a bit of a slut

rflynnr

unionman wrote: »

I like it!

See that? I managed to stay on topic

Elegantly done sir.

Chips Lovell

unionman wrote: »

I told a beeping, tailing motorist once that if he wanted to rear-end me it was dinner and a movie minimum.

I'll have to add that to my list of sexually charged ripostes.

TinyExplosions

el tonto wrote: »

I'll have to add that to my list of sexually charged ripostes.

I'll have to try it one night in Coppers

TinyExplosions

unionman wrote: »

I like it!

I told a beeping, tailing motorist once that if he wanted to rear-end me it was dinner and a movie minimum.*

So son't go thinking flattery will get you any further Tiny, I do have standards you know!!**

*See that? I managed to stay on topic

**And by 'standards' I mean I'm really a bit of a slut

I'm good for dinner and a movie*

*McDonalds Happy Meal, and DVD ok?

unionman

rflynnr wrote: »

Elegantly done sir.

Why thank you:D

el tonto wrote: »

I'll have to add that to my list of sexually charged ripostes.

Please do!

TinyExplosions wrote: »

I'm good for dinner and a movie*

*McDonalds Happy Meal, and DVD ok?

You had me at 'Happy Meal' :D:D

SerialComplaint

Muller_1 wrote: »

When I caught up with her at the next set of lights she won't even look in my direction. I think she was a bit embarrassed once she realized.

After catching up on drivers (as inevitably happens in busy traffic), I usually try landing at their window and having a quick word. It doesn't have to be aggressive, but hopefully it might make them think twice before abusing a cyclist next time. Responses vary from hugely apologetic, to 'I'll wrap that effin bike around your effin neck'.

bealbocht

Verb wrote: »

I used go that route for a bit o hill exercise, but now I just go up the upper drumcondra road and turn onto Collins avenue. Plenty of room.

c0rk3r wrote: »

This is the only stretch of footpath i cycle on and for good reason. Its the same as cyclists not using mandatory cycle tracks instead favouring the road because its safer. This stretch of road is the reason alot of people dont chose to cycle and i cant blame them. If you sat there one morning you'll notice every cyclist on the footpath because its just common sense. In every survey ive read ive notice the top reason people dont cycle is because of safety.

In the mornings traffic usually spans from town to the top of Mobhi road and in extreme cases can run as far back as DCU. So if your cycling on the road theres no room for cars to overtake you. They have to sit on your arse going 18-25km/h up the hill revving and beeping as you climb. Once you reach the top the window comes down and the verbal abuse starts. I cycle to college because i enjoy it. If i have to deal with this hassle, abuse and frustration every morning one of two things is going to happen. Im either going to stop cycling to college and take the bus or ill just use the footpath. Its a horrible way to start the morning and will leave you pissed of the whole day.

Alternatively you can turn down by botanic gardens -> bon secours -> turn right at the met office. Not as direct and a pain in the ass plus those secondary school girls shouting "will ya met her" has but me of that route altogether.

I once advised someone asking about cycling , that they should "that they should be confident enough to hold the center of the lane, to prevent a car from passing if in a situation where it was unsafe for them to pass" , I went on to advise that,in addition to this, they should learn how to turn around in the saddle , look a driver in the eye, and give him the finger, without falling off.
But having said that.. , there are a good few spots around town where there are alternative routes, down laneways and backstreets,that are much safer than the main road.

Possibly worth another thread, (although granted, any possible route is specific to each journey)

My favourite at the moment is avoiding Jervis St/O'Connell st, and getting to Parnell St from the quays by going up a laneway , (Arran St) before Caple St, up to Little Britan St/Parnell St. Virtually no traffic at all.. (although I suspect if you did this at 7am.. there would be forklift trucks wizzing about all over the place. )

rflynnr

c0rk3r wrote: »

Alternatively you can turn down by botanic gardens -> bon secours -> turn right at the met office. Not as direct and a pain in the ass plus those secondary school girls shouting "will ya met her" has but me of that route altogether.

I suspect we're going to the same august institution.

I normally take the route suggest there but only because I usually have the kids on the bike and I'm looking for a quieter route: Mobhi Road is much faster and at the around the point where it meets Ballymun Road has a favourable traffic light sequence.

I never get wolf whistles though. It must be the kids. Yeah, must be...

Vélo

To Tiny and Unionman,


GET A ROOM!!

TinyExplosions

Aquinas73 wrote: »

To Tiny and Unionman,


GET A ROOM!!

If only we could.....

Vélo

I'm picturing your kids

blorg

bealbocht wrote: »

I once advised someone asking about cycling , that they should "that they should be confident enough to hold the center of the lane, to prevent a car from passing if in a situation where it was unsafe for them to pass" , I went on to advise that,in addition to this, they should learn how to turn around in the saddle , look a driver in the eye, and give him the finger, without falling off.

First part is very true, second part less so- try to be the better person. Taking the centre of the lane because it is unsafe for a driver to pass is also quite different from doing it simply to piss a driver off.

I always wave if someone hoots at me; (1) it _could_ be someone I know greeting me, (2) if not a friendly wave pisses them off a hell of a lot more than the finger anyway.

TinyExplosions

blorg wrote: »

I always wave if someone hoots at me; (1) it _could_ be someone I know greeting me, (2) if not a friendly wave pisses them off a hell of a lot more than the finger anyway.

I agree, a big cheery smile and a wave does far more to irritate than the finger