puppy help required

teachertrixibel

hi there,

I got 2 puppies over the weekend and have a couple of questions....
(1) I'm feeding them dog biscuits soaked in water, but within 5-10 mins they both have diarrhoea - is this normal for a puppy and how long will it be before things stablise
(2) if the puppies are crying at night, should I come down to them and try and settle them or ignore them so that eventually they calm down?
(3) the fellas are on their own for about 6-7 hours every day (which is why I got two, although I know it's no replacement for human contact). What toys etc should I leave with them to keep them occupied?
(4) What is the latest time they should be fed/watered before they go to bed?

If you guys have any other hints, that would be great

Trix

Einstein

teachertrixibel wrote: »

hi there,

I got 2 puppies over the weekend and have a couple of questions....
(1) I'm feeding them dog biscuits soaked in water, but within 5-10 mins they both have diarrhoea - is this normal for a puppy and how long will it be before things stablise

Why dog biscuits? Very little nutrients for a pup tbh. Go with an established puppy food.

(2) if the puppies are crying at night, should I come down to them and try and settle them or ignore them so that eventually they calm down?

It's a hard thing to ignore, but they'll settle after a while, try placing a small heat lamp where they sleep.

(3) the fellas are on their own for about 6-7 hours every day (which is why I got two, although I know it's no replacement for human contact). What toys etc should I leave with them to keep them occupied?

the indestructable type that you can pack food into...they're fantastic, keeps them at it for ages!

(4) What is the latest time they should be fed/watered before they go to bed?

Best thing is feed them at around tea time, so all their business should be done before bed time, but leave access to water 24/7. Get into the habits of bringing them outside right before you go to bed, then the SECOND they finish bring them back inside. Routine is the only way to train them. If you have no routine, expect a lot of messy mornings. Giving them a smaller area to sleep in helps too, dogs dont like to dirty where they sleep.

hope this helps somewhat!
and try posting pics

Sigma Force

Don't want to nag but you should of read up on puppy/dog care first.

Be careful with heat lamps don't think there is any need if they are in a warm room they have each other to warm up to. Although they will both still want you but the crying should settle.

The runs can be caused by anything you have to be careful with pups and the runs, it can be anything from a change in diet, worms, stress to something more deadly like parvo so keep an eye and make sure there are no traces of blood in it if there is and he pup seems quieter then run to the vets straight away it's urgent.

For now don't feed them any food for the next 12 hours if possible or feed them a little boiled chicken each if you have to. Do supply them with plenty of water and don't give any milk. (I presume the pups are well weaned anyway). You could also give them boiled brown rice.

Change to a good quality brand of puppy food, biscuits are no good only as the odd treat. A good quality food can be Royal Canin, Burns, Hills etc. Just make sure you get the puppy one. Most vets sell some brand like that so have a chat with the vet nurse and see what they recommend.

If the runs continues they will need some (can never spell it) Dioralyte (someone correct me) again the vet will advise but if they appear weak or ill obviously it's a trip to the vets.

The RSPCA have a good basic book on puppy care, available in pretty much any book shop, it's a good starter book and will give you all the basics you need. The vet will explain about worming etc if not done already.

Puppys can find it hard to hold on, some are quicker than others to toilet train as said expect lots of poopies from your puppies before things settle down. Get a good quality mop and a bucket with some water and vinegar or a disinfectant from the vets that's safe to use because something like bleach will be too harsh and with two pups the floor is bound to be still wet from the mop because there will be a lot of accidents at first.

Hope this helps, don't envy you lol

teachertrixibel

thanks guineapigrescue and Einstein,

I had a dog about 9 years ago, but have forgotten most of the basic stuff - hence the questions now. In terms of their food, I'm feeding them Red Mills complete puppy food (sorry - "dog biscuits" was probably not the best description :rolleyes:).

Thanks for all your other hints and tips guys - much appreciated

Trix

EGAR

Hi,

how old are they and have they had the usual puppy worming routine? Diarrhoea can be caused by worm infestation and/or not being properly weaned off the mother. Pups usually pretty much poo shortly after feeding. How often do you feed them per day? The younger they are the more often you need to feed them small portions. Phone the breeder and ask him/her what they fed the pups on, a change of food can cause havoc with a small pup system. You can also try to give them small (!!) portions of pro-biotic yoghurt to settle their tummies.

Noopti

This is an odd post.

1. How old are they?
2. Why are you feeding them dog biscuits?
3. Why did you buy 2 puppies without fully understanding how to care for them?

carwash_2006

With regards to the food. Were they being fed on this food by the breeder? if not then their tummies could just be reacting to the change in diet.

You should be bringing them to the vet for a full check up and start of vaccinations anyway, so mention the diarrhea to the vet and see what they say.

andreac

young puppies should def not be left on their own for this length of time, they need to be fed at least 4 times a day and need to be let out to the toilet every hour at least.

Are you worming the pups? think this should be done every month til they 6 months.

Are they littermates? If so you will have your hands full as littermates can be big trouble, what breed are they?

Have they had all their vaccinations? they musnt be brought out until they are over their final ones as there is a major risk for parvo.

teachertrixibel

Hi Andreac,

Unfortunately I have to leave the pups on their own for that length of time, however that is why I got two. I thought about this for quite a long time - it wasn't just a snap decision. Rescue centres that I contacted were more than happy to let me take 2 dogs and were fully aware of my working commitments. While it is not the ideal (which I said in my first post), I guess it beats leaving the dogs in the pound.....


Noopti, I had done some research before buying my dogs and I also had a puppy myself, albeit a long time ago. not sure why you think this is an "odd post", I merely thought I would also get experiences from people here to help me along. It was recommended that I feed the pups the puppy biscuits, however if other people have better suggestions, then I will happily take them on board. My dogs are 8 weeks old and are currently being wormed.

Thanks,
Trix

looserock

teachertrixibel wrote: »

hi there,

I got 2 puppies over the weekend and have a couple of questions....
(1) I'm feeding them dog biscuits soaked in water, but within 5-10 mins they both have diarrhoea - is this normal for a puppy and how long will it be before things stablise
(2) if the puppies are crying at night, should I come down to them and try and settle them or ignore them so that eventually they calm down?
(3) the fellas are on their own for about 6-7 hours every day (which is why I got two, although I know it's no replacement for human contact). What toys etc should I leave with them to keep them occupied?
(4) What is the latest time they should be fed/watered before they go to bed?

If you guys have any other hints, that would be great

Trix

It's normal for them to get diarrhea if you change their food, should be OK in a few days.

They'll cry at night for a day or two until they settle in, don't go down to em or they will never stop doing it.

Two pups left together for 8 hours is no problem, pretty much any toys will do.

8 week old pups should be fed 4 times daily so divide this up the best you can, and always leave out water for them.

Also I would say don't be a stranger to the vet.

good luck and enjoy.

teachertrixibel

- much appreciated....

Luckily I'm a teacher and get home from school early enough, so they are getting their 4 meals. I've bought some new toys for them today so they're enjoying those :-) The crying didn't seem too bad last night and even today, the diarrhoea seems to have stopped so fingers crossed that's it...

Thanks again,
Trix

SuzyS1972

Do people who have experience of taking 2 pups together find it hard to train them etc.
I foster puppies and always find 1 easier than 2 - I find they are more willing to mess about with each other than listen to me !
One is having a wee or a poo while you are trying to get the other out the back etc.
The rescue I help out with doesn't allow 2 pups to be re-homed together for this reason .
Best of luck with the little ones. I'm sure the runs etc will die down it's prob just the change of home - stress etc.

Sigma Force

I have always found one is easier learned a few years back when I just had some pups for a few hours that if you have two or three or four they will still cry for you two seconds after you leave the room lol.

Mind you some pups are easier with two it all depends on the dogs themselves as well.

Even with adult dogs two can be a handful because you've basically not got any hands free when walking etc although have seen dogs on those cute leads where you can hold more than one, mind you they can get tangled up. Don't think Id' have the patience lol.

Noopti

Fair enough, I said it was an odd post because you seemed to be in over your head with buying two pups, as the questions seemed a bit naive. Also 8 weeks the borderline age at which pups should be handed over to their new owners, it is usually 9/10 weeks. Anyway, I will try and answer the original questions

(1) I'm feeding them dog biscuits soaked in water, but within 5-10 mins they both have diarrhoea - is this normal for a puppy and how long will it be before things stablise

Pups will get diarrhea from a number of things including moving to a new home, changes in diets and worms. It is probably a combination of all of the above. You will need to bring them to your own vet, if not already done so, and get them worming tablets and a general check up. If the diarrhea continues for any length of time (2 + days) it is time to get it checked out. Also, make sure that their is no blood in their stools. Blood can be caused by worms, but it can also be a symptom of more serious conditions.

(2) if the puppies are crying at night, should I come down to them and try and settle them or ignore them so that eventually they calm down?

Ignore them. Annoying at first, but they will settle. If you reinforce the behaviors by going down to them they will continue to do it, and you can't blame them as it works for them, because mammy comes down when they do it!

(3) the fellas are on their own for about 6-7 hours every day (which is why I got two, although I know it's no replacement for human contact). What toys etc should I leave with them to keep them occupied?

Not ideal, however get them lots of toys to chew on. Get some good quality Kong toys like the standard kong stuff toy, and the ball that dispenses little treats when they move it around. Also (obvious I know) but make sure they have plenty of water available to them. Leave a radio on nearby, and make sure that their area is warm.

(4) What is the latest time they should be fed/watered before they go to bed?

They should go to bed the same time you do, and it should be consistent to aid toilet training. Take away their water an hour and half before this, and give them their dinner in the evening.

Tired

Noopti just a quick question, you stated that "Take away their water an hour and half before this" are you saying she should take the water away from the pups for the rest of the night coz i always thought that dogs needed access to water 24/7. Thanks!!:)

Noopti

The reason the water should be taken away is that it aids in toilet training. If they have access to water constantly during the night they will drink it, and end up needing to go to the toilet constantly through the night. With toilet training it is all about consistency, you need to be in control of when they will be going to the toilet. If you leave access to water throughout the night then you aren't in control. This is how we trained our puppy and it worked great, as the trips out to the back garden in the night were few and far between and it wasn't long before she could pass the whole night without needing to be let out.

During the day, when you are away you should leave the water for them, as they will be more active and it could get warm in the house.

Once they are toilet trained, you can leave the water for them all the time.

Tired

Thanks Noopti, reason i asked is that we have a 15 week old pup, he is house trained, is out the back during the day till i get home from work and stays in at night and we never have a problem with accidents until night time, he has constant access to water and there is pee on the floor in the mornings, not a lot might i add but this is the only time he goes on the floor. Never dawned on me to take away his water just for night time. Im not even sure he drinks a lot at night, think it is first thing when he gets up... Could be wrong, would love to set up a little monitor and see what he does be upto during the night.

Quick question for ya, our lil lad seems to nibble on his legs and paws a good bit, like as if he is scratching. Its been a while since ive had a pup but would you say this is normal behaviour or something that I should go to the vet about.

Noopti

Hmm....not sure, but it could be some sort of skin irritation, or parasite. Might be worth getting the Vet to check it out.

Also, if he is pawing his face it could be teething related.

Tired

Think i will bring him to the vets, dont think its a parasite coz its not a constant thing he does, just now and again. Thanks for the advice..

Noopti

If it is just now and then I wouldn't worry too much, he could be just cleaning himself. If he does it quite a lot though I would get it checked. Just my two cents though, so if you would feel better getting him checked then go for it.

ISDW

Please don't take their water away at night, dogs should have access to water at all times. I have housetrained many dogs, and have never had to deny them access to water.

Noopti

ISDW wrote: »

Please don't take their water away at night, dogs should have access to water at all times. I have housetrained many dogs, and have never had to deny them access to water.

There is no reason for the dogs to have 24/7 access to water. It is recommended by many books to restrict access to water at night to aid in toilet training. If you want to toilet train the dog in the shortest time possible, you will need to control when they eat and drink.

Once the toilet training is finished (or very nearly there) you can allow 24/7 water access.

Whispered

+1 for not restricting access to water. It's not a good idea as far as I know. General practise for ANY animal is fresh clean drinking water available 24/7. I would put restricting access in the same category as wiping a dogs nose.

Noopti

To each their own, but I will follow the advice of countless books, including the almost universally recommended:
http://www.amazon.com/How-Housebreak-Your-Seven-Days/dp/0553346156

Which, like pretty much all expert dog trainers, recommends restricting access to water during housebreaking.
When you go to bed do you feel the need to constantly get up and drink water, or can you wait until the morning?

Top Dog

Well I guess we break the 24/7 rule in our house too since our 2 are crated at night with no access to water. Not going to change that either, and to be honest, don't know how we could give them acces to water when crated anyway.

Whispered

exactly noopti, i dont feel the need to get up, neither will a pup. However if i did need to have a drink, it would be available to me, I could go get it myself. A pup can't.

EDIT: just looked up crate training, most sites are saying water must always be avilable.

EDIT again: it actually seems to be split.

Whispered

Top Dog wrote: »

Well I guess we break the 24/7 rule in our house too since our 2 are crated at night with no access to water. Not going to change that either, and to be honest, don't know how we could give them acces to water when crated anyway.

I used to put a shallow dish in with the pups, they kept knocking it over so i got a cat bowl with the rubber feet, they were fine with that.

http://www.bizrate.com/dogsupplies/products__keyword--dog+crate+water+bowl.html

Noopti

helena.ryan wrote: »

exactly noopti, i dont feel the need to get up, neither will a pup. However if i did need to have a drink, it would be available to me, I could go get it myself. A pup can't.

It is only for 7-10 days (all going well!) that you need to do this, during the main housebreaking period. My dog, is fully housetrained, sleeps in our bedroom and has no access to water during the night, it is no biggie. If your pup needs to drink all the time then I think it is more a matter of getting it checked out for possible illness resulting in dehydration!

Like I said, once the pup has the idea of going outside to eliminate then water can be left for 24/7 access.

Whispered

Noopti wrote: »

If your pup needs to drink all the time then I think it is more a matter of getting it checked out for possible illness resulting in dehydration!.

But if the pup is already ill, or has diarreha (sp?) then i still maintain it has to be 24/7 access. So whatever your opinion on 24 access to water, it should not be recommended to take water from the pups until the OP has their problem with digesting their food sorted.

I have to admit, I would never leave an animal without 24/7 access to water. I would worry.

Top Dog

helena.ryan wrote: »

EDIT: just looked up crate training, most sites are saying water must always be avilable.

EDIT again: it actually seems to be split.

I suppose in some situations its down to the individual owners and dogs. We've watched our 2 closely and they've never immediately rushed for water when let out in the mornings so I think in our case we're safe enough. In fact sometimes they can go for over half an hour before going near their water when they first get up in the day.

Then again, we never have the house overly warm so the risk of dehydration is minimal for them. I personally think that if people are in-tune enough with their animals then they can make the best judgement on the situation.

ISDW

I'm sorry for going off topic, but its been discussed on here and elsewhere, that a reason you can report an owner to the ISPCA or the dog warden is if the dog has no access to water. So I don't understand how it is okay to deprive a dog of water overnight.

If your dog is in a crate, then you can get bowls that clip onto the side of the crate so that it won't spill.

I think its very relevant in this case that the dog has diarrhoea, so is probably dehydrated, so surely taking water away is definitely not the best thing to do.

Top Dog

ISDW wrote: »

I'm sorry for going off topic, but its been discussed on here and elsewhere, that a reason you can report an owner to the ISPCA or the dog warden is if the dog has no access to water. So I don't understand how it is okay to deprive a dog of water overnight.

If your dog is in a crate, then you can get bowls that clip onto the side of the crate so that it won't spill.

I think its very relevant in this case that the dog has diarrhoea, so is probably dehydrated, so surely taking water away is definitely not the best thing to do.

I don't know if this is aimed at me, but just in case I thought I'd best reply.

I was not trying to suggest that the OP restrict their dogs access to water, I was merely speaking from my own expierence in relation to our 2 dogs. I'm no expert on the subject of dogs suffering with dehydration and diarrhoea so I don't think its my place to comment at all on it.

Yes, a person can be reported for denying their animal from water, but I hardly think that a 5 hour period where they're safe asleep would fall under the umbrella of neglect. Not really a comparible situation with someone who doesn't give their animal water, or even clean water. On the few occasions where one of our dogs was suffering with diarrhoea, we left the crate open and did leave access to water. Both our dogs are happy and healthy and judging by their behaviours they're not suffering in any shape or form from being crated away from water for a few hours.

Perhaps this isn't the ideal situation, but as Helena has posted above, opinion is split on the whole thing. I'd still stand by what I said about an owner in-tune with their animal being the best judge of what works for them.

looserock

Top Dog wrote: »

I personally think that if people are in-tune enough with their animals then they can make the best judgement on the situation.

I would agree with this.

Taking away the water at night would speed up house training and wouldn't be any harm, I personally just prefer to leave the water out.

ISDW

I'm sorry, but I just think there are a lot of things you can do to 'speed up' training, electric shock collars for barking etc, but it doesn't make them right for the animals. Yes, it is a pain getting up during the night to let a puppy out, but IMO its part of owning a puppy.

It wasn't aimed at you Topdog, it was just a general comment on not providing drinking water for a dog, and most people sleep for longer than 5 hours a night:D, I was thinking of a dog being without water for 8 hours or more.

Top Dog

ISDW wrote: »

It wasn't aimed at you Topdog, it was just a general comment on not providing drinking water for a dog, and most people sleep for longer than 5 hours a night:D, I was thinking of a dog being without water for 8 hours or more.

Ah thats ok. I was just posting a response in case anyone else picked me up wrong.;)

And I agree that most people sleep longer than 5 hours, but I work shift so the overlap between my sleep and my wife's sleep is never any more than 5 hours.:)

Beth

The whole water/no water thing at night - I think it is definitely down to the individual dog and owners, as well as their diet. Our two are fed raw, and during the day while they have access to fresh water, they dont drink that much compared to what they drank on dried food - because a lot of their water intake is provided in what they eat anyway, so they don't drink as much.

Most people do sleep a lot longer than what TopDog mentioned alright - but it works for us - there's shiftwork patterns in our house so its rare enough the dogs are in their crates with the doors closed because there is usually a human around

Edit : He was typing while I was typing

Noopti

ISDW wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I just think there are a lot of things you can do to 'speed up' training, electric shock collars for barking etc, but it doesn't make them right for the animals. Yes, it is a pain getting up during the night to let a puppy out, but IMO its part of owning a puppy.

It wasn't aimed at you Topdog, it was just a general comment on not providing drinking water for a dog, and most people sleep for longer than 5 hours a night:D, I was thinking of a dog being without water for 8 hours or more.

Give me a break, talk about going OTT. Comparing restricting access to water overnight to electric shock collars? Reporting people for restricting access to water during housebreaking?

Restricting access to water overnight is neither cruel or against the law. We restricted access to our pup overnight and we still had to get up a couple of times during the night with her, so don't being trying to say that people do it so that they can have uninterrupted sleep.
A house trained animal is better for the owners and the animal, restricting water during the night DOES speed up this process and is NOT cruel. Like I said, our dog sleeps in our room at night and their is no water at all, and she is the happiest, most well trained dog I know. But you would suggest that I'm being cruel?

If someone is sleeping for 10/12 hours and not bothering to attend to their dogs, then that is a completely different matter to not providing 24/7 access to water, so please don't compare the two. Sometimes during the night our dog will get up and get restless, so I bring her downstairs to the kitchen and sometimes she might have a drink of water while there.

It is all about being aware of your dogs habits and schedule. It has nothing to do with cruelty, laziness or not knowing what is right for the animals. Quite the opposite.


Edit:

I think its very relevant in this case that the dog has diarrhoea, so is probably dehydrated, so surely taking water away is definitely not the best thing to do.

No one suggested denying water to a sick animal, please re-read the posts. The suggestion was for general housebreaking, not when an animal is ill.

ISDW

Noopti wrote: »

There is no reason for the dogs to have 24/7 access to water. It is recommended by many books to restrict access to water at night to aid in toilet training. If you want to toilet train the dog in the shortest time possible, you will need to control when they eat and drink.

Once the toilet training is finished (or very nearly there) you can allow 24/7 water access.

But you've said that you don't allow your dog access to water during the night.

I wasn't going OTT, just because not letting the dog have water at night makes the house training process quicker, does not mean it is necessarily better for the dog. I still don't understand your point, so you don't allow the puppy water during the night, but you still have to get up and take it outside, so how does denying it water help?

Noopti

ISDW wrote: »

But you've said that you don't allow your dog access to water during the night.

I wasn't going OTT, just because not letting the dog have water at night makes the house training process quicker, does not mean it is necessarily better for the dog. I still don't understand your point, so you don't allow the puppy water during the night, but you still have to get up and take it outside, so how does denying it water help?

Quite simple, it helps because instead of going out every hour as the dog drinks (if it does), you only have to go out 2/3 times. Thus, it aids the training as you can schedule to get up at specific times through the night and re-enforce the behavior of going out to go to the toilet.

Is it better for the dog to have unlimited access to water and thus more likely chance of it soiling it's crate? A dog, like a human does not need to have 24/7 access to water during the night. During the night, dogs...like us, sleep. The only reason I see for a puppy to be given 24/7 access to water during the night is if the environment dictates it, that is, if you live in a hot country where access to water all the time is necessary for the health of the dog. Under normal circumstances the puppy will have gotten it's required daily intake of water during the day, when it has got water access and the owner can observe for signs of needing to go out.

You did go OTT by comparing what is an accepted method for housetraining to using electric shock collars - a completely unacceptable method. An electric shock collar physically hurts the dog, not allowing access to water during the night does nothing of the sort.

Edit: Oh and yes I did say that 24/7 access is fine once training is finished, I never said I do it. My dog is fine without access to water during the night, as she can drink as much as she wants during the day. I was saying that if the owner has trained the dog, then there is no need to take the water away at night as the dog is trained to go out (or go to paper, whatever is applicable).

ISDW

Noopti wrote: »

You did go OTT by comparing what is an accepted method for housetraining to using electric shock collars - a completely unacceptable method. An electric shock collar physically hurts the dog, not allowing access to water during the night does nothing of the sort.

In your view it is acceptable, in my view it is not, just as, to a lot of people, the electric shock collars are acceptable. I think that it is cruel, which is why it is one of the reasons that you can be prosecuted for cruelty, and as far as I'm aware, you won't be prosecuted for using an electric shock collar. Warped legal logic definitely, but in my view, not allowing your dog access to water is a big no no. And I don't agree with the arguement that owners know their own dogs needs better than anyone else, that is an excuse that could be used to justify anything.

You and I are never to agree on this issue, thats fine, the world would be a very sad place if everybody agreed with everybody else. The OP will have to weigh up the different views and decide for themselves.

Noopti

True. I suggest the OP get a couple of books and the subject and see what they suggest.

Whispered

teachertrixibel wrote: »

hi there,

I got 2 puppies over the weekend and have a couple of questions....
(1) I'm feeding them dog biscuits soaked in water, but within 5-10 mins they both have diarrhoea

Noopti wrote: »

Pups will get diarrhea from a number of things including moving to a new home, changes in diets and worms. It is probably a combination of all of the above. You will need to bring them to your own vet, if not already done so, ...........They should go to bed the same time you do, and it should be consistent to aid toilet training. Take away their water an hour and half before this, and give them their dinner in the evening.

Noopti wrote: »

No one suggested denying water to a sick animal, please re-read the posts. The suggestion was for general housebreaking, not when an animal is ill.

Again, access should never be restricted if an animal is suffering with diarrhea. I know this was not your point, but because they are in the same post, just need to clear that up for the OP. You were not suggesting taking water from these pups until they have seen a vet or until they are no longer suffering with diarrhea.

sarah101

I have to completely agree with ISDW, a dog should access to fresh clean drinking water 24/7. No excuses. Our GSD is also crated at night but has her water bowl in the crate with her. She has been well trained and never messes inside or in her crate.