lets sort this once and for all.

D.Q

Loved and Loathed on these boards in JUST about equal measures.
The question is, do you think Kane was an important part of wwe during the attitude era?

I feel he played a big part in ppvs throughout the nineties, and as a monster helped elevate the wwe.

Now rip me apart...:rolleyes:

callaway92

There was a thread similar to this a month ago...You didnt need to create this..Answering you question though..Answer =definetaly not

orestes

He was part of the support cast imo, didn't really make much of a difference in the big scheme but was useful to have about. He played a part, but not an important part

ShawnRaven

He's like Roddy Piper to Wrestlemania, he was a player, but that was it. He played a part anyone could have done.

Pretty sure this was polled before too, last year.

D.Q

No

callaway92 wrote: »

There was a thread similar to this a month ago...You didnt need to create this..Answering you question though..Answer =definetaly not

oh...well the mods can delete it should they feel fit.

callaway92

It is inevitable that the same people will say he was important ie Kaneenite,KKV ,OP etc..While same people saying not important..Me..VR..etc

Op...Can you say what you think that Kane did back then to make himself improtant?

Bubs101

No

ShawnRaven wrote: »

. He played a part anyone could have done.

.

I don't see how anybody could have done that. He managed to keep a character that couldn't speak and just beat the crap out of people over with the fans for years despite constantly putting the likes of the Rock, Hunter, Austin, Taker and Foley over. He could take a load of defeats against the big names without his credibility being tarnished. In essence he was the perfect tool to get names over without hurting the jobber himself. Don't see anybody else who could have done that without lengthy title reigns.

Matter of fact, his impact can still be seen now. You have 3 guys here who continually sing his praises despite accepting he's not really any use anymore. To still have that affect 6 years(ish) after de-masking is immense

PretentiousApe

No

In my opinion, Kane was definitely important to the WWF during the 90's. He was the monster they could pull out whenever someone needed to be dealt with. He's an impressive physical specimen, however, his gimmick wasn't being huge, like Khali and Big Show. He was quite possibly the darkest character in the Attitude era, except for maybe 'Taker during the whole Ministry of Darkness thing.

Besides...

HE'S THE UNDERTAKER'S BROTHER, FOR FECK'S SAKE! THEY WERE TAG-TEAM CHAMPS TOGETHER AS THE BROTHERS OF DESTRUCTION AND THEY HAD ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING RIVALRIES THE WWF HAD EVER SEEN!

These days, Kane's pretty boring and pointless, I'll admit that. He's well past his prime and is clearly not as capable as he once was.

Is it just me or did he seem slightly shorter when he wore the mask?

ShawnRaven

Bubs101 wrote: »

I don't see how anybody could have done that. He managed to keep a character that couldn't speak and just beat the crap out of people over with the fans for years despite constantly putting the likes of the Rock, Hunter, Austin, Taker and Foley over.

Like what Khali is pretty much doing now, and he's as equally worthless for all intents and purposes.

ShawnRaven

PretentiousApe wrote: »

Besides...

HE'S THE UNDERTAKER'S BROTHER, FOR FECK'S SAKE! THEY WERE TAG-TEAM CHAMPS TOGETHER AS THE BROTHERS OF DESTRUCTION AND THEY HAD ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING RIVALRIES THE WWF HAD EVER SEEN!

It's still real to you damnit, isn't it?

Is it just me or did he seem slightly shorter when he wore the mask?

He's been slightly shorter before he ditched his mask when he stopped wearing the boots with the lifts in em.

CMpunked

No

Bubs101 wrote: »

Matter of fact, his impact can still be seen now. You have 3 guys here who continually sing his praises despite accepting he's not really any use anymore. To still have that affect 6 years(ish) after de-masking is immense

KKV, Kane-N-Nite... who else?

Better not be me, i dont have a burning hatred towards him like others seem to here (callaway).

PretentiousApe wrote: »

HE'S THE UNDERTAKER'S BROTHER, FOR FECK'S SAKE! THEY WERE TAG-TEAM CHAMPS TOGETHER AS THE BROTHERS OF DESTRUCTION AND THEY HAD ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING RIVALRIES THE WWF HAD EVER SEEN!

They did have a very good run of a rivalry. But not sure it was one of the most interesting. It was one of the best directed comic-book style angle i can bring to mind.

PretentiousApe wrote: »

Is it just me or did he seem slightly shorter when he wore the mask?

I always thought he looked more muscular back then.
Maybe it was the outfit, it gave him more of a vertical look, perhaps?


Onto the topic at hand.

IMO, read bubs' post, he put it best.

rovert

boards.ie poll > nielsen ratings :rolleyes:

The fact of the matter is Kane was never a draw on his own regardless how featured he was or what storyline he was in. Sable was a much, much bigger star than he was.

DieselQueen wrote: »

I feel he played a big part in ppvs throughout the nineties, and as a monster helped elevate the wwe.

Based on what? Give me one PPV buyrate that was mainly attributed to him? How exactly as a monster helped elevate the wwe?

ShawnRaven

So far, the vote as 7 votes to 4 againsts Kane's usefulness in the WWE.
Kane is about as useful as a seven euro note, a bottle of chips and a solar powered torch.

He'll probably headling a PPV about the same time as the seller of the above items can shift the lot on ebay and get a positive feedback!

Handsome Bob

No

I think he played his part in embellishing the character of the Undertaker in the Attitude and I thoroughly enjoyed his contribution there. He did well in his feud with Stone Cold aswell. But it went downhill once he started to say "suck it!" and X-Pac started to make the burned cock jokes.

rovert

LZ5by5 wrote: »

He did well in his feud with Stone Cold aswell.

By doing well you mean WWF had no confidence that Kane & Austin could draw so they had to add Undertaker on the PPV matches in late 1998. :rolleyes:

WWF made the main event of King of the Ring a first blood match as mainly they thought a singles match between the two was too weak.

Handsome Bob

No

rovert wrote: »

By doing well you mean WWF had no confidence that Kane & Austin could draw so they had to add Undertaker on the PPV matches in late 1998. :rolleyes:

WWF made the main event of King of the Ring a first blood match as mainly they thought a singles match between the two was too weak.

By doing well I meant that I enjoyed the feud. I was a kid and Kane did his monster heel thing very effectively for me up against Stone Cold (my fav superstar at the time).

rovert

LZ5by5 wrote: »

By doing well I meant that I enjoyed the feud. I was a kid and Kane did his monster heel thing very effectively for me up against Stone Cold (my fav superstar at the time).

Thats fine and all, Im not dictating who you should and shoudnt like. But people on here were talking about how important, valuable and vital he was in the Attitude Era when he really wasnt.

ShawnRaven

LZ5by5 wrote: »

By doing well I meant that I enjoyed the feud. I was a kid and Kane did his monster heel thing very effectively for me up against Stone Cold (my fav superstar at the time).

That's exactly the problem! Most people judge Kane on their childhood memories. The problem is, if you go back and look at those matches, it's all one big nostalgia trip. If you were to block out said memories, the first words out of your mouth would be "that red prick had no business in that match at all!"

And you'd be right!

Fozzy

The facts do speak for themselves, he was never a draw in any sense, so not important for the Attitude Era. Can't argue that. I did really like him for a couple of years when he started but since then I don't think that I've been into anything that he's done

Handsome Bob

No

rovert wrote: »

Thats fine and all, Im not dictating who you should and shoudnt like. But people on here were talking about how important, valuable and vital he was in the Attitude Era when he really wasnt.

Kane could have been presented better, but as I said already, burnt cock jokes and the Big Red Monster grumbling "suck it!" made him into a bloody sideshow and a freakshow (for all the wrong reasons).

Originally posted by ShawnRaven
That's exactly the problem! Most people judge Kane on their childhood memories. The problem is, if you go back and look at those matches, it's all one big nostalgia trip. If you were to block out said memories, the first words out of your mouth would be "that red prick had no business in that match at all!"

And you'd be right!

I could say the same thing about Batista.:pac:

I agree with what you are saying though, I bought the Stone Cold Legacy and I remember how excited I was watching the match when I was kid, but I was just indifferent to it on the dvd. Maybe that's because I keep ruining the experience of watching dvds by being on my excerise bike at the same time.:pac:

rovert

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Kane could have been presented better, but as I said already, burnt cock jokes and the Big Red Monster grumbling "suck it!" made him into a bloody sideshow and a freakshow (for all the wrong reasons).

Those were desperation tactics to keep him fresh and relevant.

Fozzy wrote: »

The facts do speak for themselves, he was never a draw in any sense, so not important for the Attitude Era. Can't argue that. I did really like him for a couple of years when he started but since then I don't think that I've been into anything that he's done

I’m the same, I’m not a Kane h8r at all.

Handsome Bob

No

rovert wrote: »

Those were desperation tactics to keep him fresh and relevant.

Sure we are seeing it modern day with Khali, though I do have to admit that I have let myself chuckle at his comedic capabilities.:pac:

ShawnRaven

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Sure we are seeing it modern day with Khali, though I do have to admit that I have let myself chuckle at his comedic capabilities.:pac:

That's funny, i'm pretty sure i made a very similar comparison in another thread earlier tonight!

rovert

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Sure we are seeing it modern day with Khali, though I do have to admit that I have let myself chuckle at his comedic capabilities.:pac:

I never compared Kane to Khali, but you cant deny Kane wasnt stale in those instances and certionly wasnt drawing.

Handsome Bob

No

ShawnRaven wrote: »

That's funny, i'm pretty sure i made a very similar comparison in another thread earlier tonight!

*Anything LZ says is trademarked and copyrighted*:p

CMpunked

No

rovert wrote: »

WWF made the main event of King of the Ring a first blood match as mainly they thought a singles match between the two was too weak.

Not to sound like a pompous prick, but how do you know that for certain?

rovert wrote: »

Thats fine and all, Im not dictating who you should and shoudnt like. But people on here were talking about how important, valuable and vital he was in the Attitude Era when he really wasnt.

I dont think anyone used those words.

ShawnRaven

<helwig>That's it, i'm legally changing my name to "KhaliIsWWE'sAnswerToKaneIn2008" </helwig>

rovert

Comic-Book-Guy wrote: »

Not to sound like a pompous prick, but how do you know that for certain?

It was in Powerslam at the time, PWTorch has been putting up back issues from that time and the first blood stip was a late addition to the card.

Comic-Book-Guy wrote: »

I dont think anyone used those words.

Then you didnt read the OP or saw last night's thread.

Handsome Bob

No

rovert wrote: »

I never compared Kane to Khali, but you cant deny Kane wasnt stale in those instances and certionly wasnt drawing.

I won't deny it, sure they only gave him a relatively short feud one-on-one with SCSA so it's not as if they were banking on him to draw. Furthermore he wasn't required to draw (Stone Cold, Rock, Undertaker, Foley, HHH).

Originally posted by ShawnRaven
<helwig>That's it, i'm legally changing my name to "KhaliIsWWE'sAnswerToKaneIn2008" </helwig>

Why would you do that to your prospective kids.:(:pac:

CMpunked

No

rovert wrote: »

Then you didnt read the OP or saw last night's thread.

The "Rock is coming back" farce of a thread? yeah, i did. :mad:

ShawnRaven

rovert wrote: »

It was in Powerslam at the time, PWTorch has been putting up back issues from that time and the first blood stip was a late addition to the card.

I can back this up as well CBG, i only watched the entire 98 RAW about 6 months ago.

rovert

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I won't deny it, sure they only gave him a relatively short feud one-on-one with SCSA so it's not as if they were banking on him to draw.

No they didnt that feud went on for months.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Furthermore he wasn't required to draw (Stone Cold, Rock, Undertaker, Foley, HHH).:

I think he was actually, he was in positions to do so.

rovert

ShawnRaven wrote: »

rovert wrote: »

It was in Powerslam at the time, PWTorch has been putting up back issues from that time and the first blood stip was a late addition to the card.

I can back this up as well CBG, i only watched the entire 98 RAW about 6 months ago.

And a poorly built up Hell in the Cell match was put on the undercard to bolster the show as they panicked over the early buyrate numbers. Please bare in mind this was a HOT time business wise for WWF.

Handsome Bob

No

rovert wrote: »

No they didnt that feud went on for months.

Are we talking just Kane/SCSA or Undertaker/SCSA/Kane? It was just Kane/SCSA running up to KOTR wasn't it?:o

rovert wrote: »

I think he was actually, he was in positions to do so.

Fair enough, I just don't remember any blatant attempts by the WWE to put him on a pedestal in the Attitude Era (other than his alliance with the Undertaker/ match at (Judgement Day?) with SCSA as the ref).

CMpunked

No

ShawnRaven wrote: »

rovert wrote: »

It was in Powerslam at the time, PWTorch has been putting up back issues from that time and the first blood stip was a late addition to the card.

I can back this up as well CBG, i only watched the entire 98 RAW about 6 months ago.

Thanks man.
I wasnt trying to pick but i remember that match from being one of my earlier favorites.

Never knew that ^^

rvd156

No

Kane defo was a big part. Him and the undertaker were class as a tag team. He is a household name. I feel he was needed as part of the success to the attitude era.

ShawnRaven

rovert wrote: »

No they didnt that feud went on for months.

Went on through Fully Loaded up until a couple of weeks before Summerslam when Kane ended up tagging up Mankind. The guts of two months. Not exactly a short time in an era of 12 PPV's a year.

rovert

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Are we talking just Kane/SCSA or Undertaker/SCSA/Kane? It was just Kane/SCSA running up to KOTR wasn't it?:o)

All of the above you notice WWF didnt put Kane & Austin together on their own after KOTR as they had no confidence in Kane drawing on his own against Austin.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Fair enough, I just don't remember any blatant attempts by the WWE to put him on a pedestal in the Attitude Era (other than his alliance with the Undertaker/ match at (Judgement Day?) with SCSA as the ref).

Erm King of The Ring 1998 is one and it was a disater.

ShawnRaven

Comic-Book-Guy wrote: »

Never knew that ^^

Yeah, and if Kane lost, then he would
*puts shaver to throat*
"SET HIMSELF ON FYYYYYYRRRREEE!"

That was only added in six days beforehand, the RAW before the PPV.

Handsome Bob

No

rovert wrote: »

All of the above you notice WWF didnt put Kane & Austin together on their own after KOTR as they had no confidence in Kane drawing on his own against Austin.



Erm King of The Ring 1998 is one and it was a disater.

Ha ha fair enough, just giving him 24 hours though with the title wasn't exactly seeing if could take the ball and run with it.:pac: But I guess they couldn't take a chance like that bearing in mind the environment they were in with WCW.

rovert

rvd156 wrote: »

Kane defo was a big part. Him and the undertaker were class as a tag team. He is a household name. I feel he was needed as part of the success to the attitude era.

As a third/forth body in feuds whether it be singles or tags, yeah but to say he was relatively important simply isnt true.

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Went on through Fully Loaded up until a couple of weeks before Summerslam when Kane ended up tagging up Mankind. The guts of two months. Not exactly a short time in an era of 12 PPV's a year.

The him and Undertaker wrestled Austin for a painfully long time in the winter.

CMpunked

No

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Yeah, and if Kane lost, then he would
*puts shaver to throat*
"SET HIMSELF ON FYYYYYYRRRREEE!"

That was only added in six days beforehand, the RAW before the PPV.

i have that on tape in my collection.

Kane always seems to be late with his match stipulations. :P

Set on fire, take off masks. lol.

Handsome Bob

No

Anyone remember running up to one of the triple threat matches that cheesy promo the Undertaker and Kane did in some alley or something? At the end the Undertaker suggests that Kane will roll over for him.

Undertaker: You know what I mean.

Kane (with voicebox ala Ned from South Park): No.....I.....don't!

:pac:

ShawnRaven

Comic-Book-Guy wrote: »

Kane always seems to be late with his match stipulations. :P

Yet another reason why the majority think his contributions to the attitude era were complete and utter jokes.

I can't believe we're spending all this time talking about Kane, we're as bad as those muppet Second Life players. At least we all have one thing in common...

... screw second life, we need to get a first life!

rovert

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Ha ha fair enough, just giving him 24 hours though with the title wasn't exactly seeing if could take the ball and run with it.:pac:

He didn’t get a chance because his match at King of the Ring was box office death how many more ways do I need to say this before it sinks in? The reason why Goldberg got the title in the summer of 1998 on television was because when Goldberg and Hogan was announced as a non-title dark match WCW sold a tonne of tickets in a 40,000 seater arena. WCW decided to take a chance on Goldberg and WWF decided not to take a chance with Kane for one reason: box office.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

But I guess they couldn't take a chance like that bearing in mind the environment they were in with WCW.

The ONLY reason Kane got the belt for 24 hours was so that Austin could challenge for the belt and win on Raw so that WWF could gain a rating.

CMpunked

No

Whats second life?

That online Sims thing?


Anyways. After all. Its only Kane.

Whos next on the list to make a thread about?

i think Matt Hardy is due by now? :P

Handsome Bob

No

rovert wrote: »

He didn’t get a chance because his match at King of the Ring was box office death how many more ways do I need to say this before it sinks in? The reason why Goldberg got the title in the summer of 1998 on television was because when Goldberg and Hogan was announced as a non-title dark match WCW sold a tonne of tickets in a 40,000 seater arena. WCW decided to take a chance on Goldberg and WWF decided not to take a chance with Kane for one reason: box office.



The ONLY reason Kane got the belt for 24 hours was so that Austin could challenge for the belt and win on Raw so that WWF could gain a rating.

Oh I get it, I'm just attempting (badly) to play devils advocate.:pac:

rovert

Comic-Book-Guy wrote: »

Whats second life?

That online Sims thing?


Anyways. After all. Its only Kane.

Whos next on the list to make a thread about?

i think Matt Hardy is due by now? :P

Maybe we will get people who voted for Matt and make a reasonable post in based in fact to actually post in it.

ShawnRaven

Comic-Book-Guy wrote: »

Whats second life?

That online Sims thing?

Yeah, the thing teenage kids got into because WoW was too much for their heads to take in, and their parents wouldn't buy em a Wii to play Mariokart

ShawnRaven

rovert wrote: »

Maybe we will get people who voted for Matt and make a reasonable post in based in fact to actually post in it.

Don't even begin to encourage that, rovert!

Handsome Bob

No

Comic-Book-Guy wrote: »

i think Matt Hardy is due by now? :P

Don't rag on Mattitude!:mad: There is only one superstar I still shamelessly "mark" out for and that's Version 1. Yeah you heard me ShawnRaven!:p:D:pac: