BOD and D'Arcy

jam_on_toast

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/irish/7679855.stm

Aint good news for Ireland or Leinster. Says d'arcy has to have another operation, will be out till new year.

BOD might miss the autumn tests too.

At least some of the younger lads seem to be making a claim for the centre spots.

Given trimbles poor form at the moment, we could have a very inexperienced cetre partnership. Horgan may even be drafted back to 12 i fear!

bleg

bowe and fitzgerald/earls

Amz

Leinster have just come out and said O'Driscoll should be ok for the Autumn Internationals, but will miss the Magners League game at the weekend.

zAbbo

BOD should be fine, but Fitzgerald + 1 in the centre is a must.

George Hook, said he'd go Kearney, Horgan, BOD, Fitz, Earls, ROG, Reddan in the backline.

Personally I think we should go with that, but Earls at 13, Fitz at 12, and Bowe at 11 for Canada.

JWAD

jam_on_toast wrote: »

BOD might miss the autumn tests too.

He'll be fine for the november series.

JWAD

zAbbo wrote: »

George Hook, said he'd go Kearney, Horgan, BOD, Fitz, Earls, ROG, Reddan in the backline

Betchya Girv plays 15. O'Driscoll will play inside centre and its a toss up between Fitzgerald and Earls for outside centre. Shaggy to right wing. Kearney will be a bench player methinks.

bleg

i'd start o leary at scrum half. reddan hasn't been playing well

Crash

Who's gonna take the left then? or are we planning on lining out as 14

Also, while Reddan hasn't been playing well I still don't see O'Leary as any great shakes. Try him out against Canada by all means, but other than that no, no way, no how.

JWAD

Going Forward wrote: »

Who's gonna take the left then? or are we planning on lining out as 14

Tommy Bowe

[Jackass]

Hopefully BO'D wont play any part in November series, but needless to say, if he can hobble he will play. That's it IRFU, you've almost finished off the greatest player of a generation, possibly ever, to play for Ireland. Keep racking him up week in week out. Start him against Canada for sure. Probably give him the full 80 minutes in all the games. It's only knee ligaments.

Didn't see a problem playing him in the summer with a thigh strain, which eventually snapped against Oz, so I don't see why knee ligament damage should stop him playing a few test matches.

Particularly when there are so few young players to blood now...

:rolleyes:

JWAD

[Jackass] wrote: »

Hopefully BO'D wont play any part in November series, but needless to say, if he can hobble he will play. That's it IRFU, you've almost finished off the greatest player of a generation, possibly ever, to play for Ireland. Keep racking him up week in week out. Start him against Canada for sure. Probably give him the full 80 minutes in all the games. It's only knee ligaments.

Didn't see a problem playing him in the summer with a thigh strain, which eventually snapped against Oz, so I don't see why knee ligament damage should stop him playing a few test matches.

Particularly when there are so few young players to blood now...

:rolleyes:

???????
If he's fit to play, he's fit to play. This is international rugby union we're talking here. Not provincial. Not club. Ranking points for RWC seedings are up for badly needed grabs so why shouldn't one of the best players in the country play? Also, believe it or not, he has a say himself. If he's not fit, he won't play. If he is then I don't see what your problem is, mate. Unless of course you've got some inside information on his x-rays and MRI scans that nobody else knows about.........................;)

anonymous_joe

BoD's always played before he's fit to play.

I certainly don't want to see him start against Canada.

valleyoftheunos

I'd say its very unlikely that BOD, ROG or anyone else in that category will be in the 22 against Canada. Expect a back line something like TOL, Sexton, Bowe, FItzy, Earls, Dowling (Shudder) and Kearney

Stev_o

Johnny Murphy should start on the wing against Canada been raking up tries with Leicester at the moment

Podge_irl

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

I'd say its very unlikely that BOD, ROG or anyone else in that category will be in the 22 against Canada. Expect a back line something like TOL, Sexton, Bowe, FItzy, Earls, Dowling (Shudder) and Kearney

Its Kidney's one and only game with the team before facing the ABs and Argentina. I would expect a close to full strength line-up.

JWAD

anonymous_joe wrote: »

BoD's always played before he's fit to play

Now how would you know that exactly?

Amz

JWAD, I know you work for the IRFU, but you seem to take any comments like the above way too personally.

Relax the cacks ok?

valleyoftheunos

Podge_irl wrote: »

Its Kidney's one and only game with the team before facing the ABs and Argentina. I would expect a close to full strength line-up.

Well I'd suggest that the back line I've mentioned would be very close to full strength, He knows all of the older players well at this stage and everybody knows about the established combinations. The A team put canada away during the summer and Whilst a win against the ABs would be amazing the game to truly target is the Argentina game as that is the match most likely to give us some very important ranking points allowing us to go into a RWC pool as second seeds.

I fully expect him to try out some new combos and if they impress I expect them to reappear for the following matches. Fitzy, Earls and Kearney in particular could easily start against the ABs.

zenmonk

What the hell are the comments about O Leary and Dowling not being up to it about?
Are these guys not entitled to a shot?
Do they not play top class rugby week in week out for Munster? O Leary dominated Dwayne Peel and Byron Kelleher in big matches recently.
Jesus if O Leary was playing for Leinster can you immagine the campaign to get him in the team!! I'm not suggesting they should start for Ireland or
I do not mean to start a slagfest here but surely a bit of objectivity.
Also Kearney has to start, his fielding and pace makes him a must pick.

JWAD

Amz wrote: »

JWAD you seem to take any comments like the above way too personally.

Relax the cacks ok?

Just asked a question.........:eek:
Thanks for advertising what I do for a living too.

High&Low

JWAD wrote: »

Betchya Girv plays 15. O'Driscoll will play inside centre and its a toss up between Fitzgerald and Earls for outside centre. Shaggy to right wing. Kearney will be a bench player methinks.

I see from above that you work for the IRFU but I really hope that you have no insider knowledge about Dempsey, Kearney and Horgan. If anyone of those three should be on the bench it should be Horgan... If everyone was fit I don't think he'd even make the squad.

JWAD

High&Low wrote: »

I really hope that you have no insider knowledge about Dempsey, Kearney and Horgan.

My own personal view.
Girv is playing great stuff at the mo. Horgan may miss out but he's defo not as bad as some people here making him out to be.

SpAcEd OuT

zenmonk wrote: »

What the hell are the comments about O Leary and Dowling not being up to it about?
Are these guys not entitled to a shot?
Do they not play top class rugby week in week out for Munster? O Leary dominated Dwayne Peel and Byron Kelleher in big matches recently.
Jesus if O Leary was playing for Leinster can you immagine the campaign to get him in the team!! I'm not suggesting they should start for Ireland or
I do not mean to start a slagfest here but surely a bit of objectivity.
Also Kearney has to start, his fielding and pace makes him a must pick.

O'Leary and Dowling aren't up to it though. O'Leary is playing behind a rock solid pack so of course hes doing o.k for now but he is not up to the standard and Dowling just doesn't cut it IMO.
What are you taking about if O'Leary was starting for Leinster there would be a campaign to get him into the team? Where has that come from? Pure muck on your part. I really hate this kind of ****e in the rugby forum.

zenmonk

Is this not the same pack he will be behind in an Irish shirt with Heaslip? I would say he is doing better than ok. He has put Stringer (Irelands no 2 remember)on the bench in Munster.
You are entitled to your opinion but the "pure muck" I'm spouting is actually my opinion also, I think Dowling and O Leary get a raw deal here bigtime.

Podge_irl

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Well I'd suggest that the back line I've mentioned would be very close to full strength

I would be pretty sure that Sexton, Earls and Dowling won't be near the full strength team. Sexton may make the bench.

Its irrelevant if "we" know what the more experience players can do. Kidney (not to mention the rest of the coaching staff) only has one game with them in preparation for the ABs game. I think it would be stupid not to use it to get his patterns down.

Is this not the same pack he will be behind in an Irish shirt with Heaslip?

The Musnter pack is far more dominant at that level then the Irish pack is at international level. I'm not a huge fan of O'Leary, but all the scrum halves are a bit useless so who knows who will end up playing.

zenmonk

The Musnter pack is far more dominant at that level then the Irish pack is at international level. I'm not a huge fan of O'Leary, but all the scrum halves are a bit useless so who knows who will end up playing.[/quote]

That's a good point but the scrum/ lineout was under pressure at the weekend and I thought O Leary was a contender for MOTM Listen podge I would still rate Reddan higher no doubt

Colm_OReilly

Independent today said BO'D should be fit for the AI's, which is good news considering his form lately.

So what are the advantages to Reddan over O'Leary? Is there much of a tactical advantage to swapping one for the other around the 50 minute mark?

jam_on_toast

personally, i'd like to see some variations in the halfbacks for these games. Am sick to death of seeing the same combinations. I am not looking for results in these matches, i'd prefer to see new players tried in some of the games while keeping a familiar core to the team. I dont think kidney is going to be judged on november internationals, so i dont mind if results are dodgy, altho, if we put a full strength team against the AB(which i assume we will), i expect us to win, given the players form at the moment.

i'd play the strongest team obviously against the AB, (o'leary & o'gara at 9 and 10). reddan and sexton for the argentina, and murphy and keatley for canada. I know this will never happen, but we desperately need to see new options, especially at 10.

I would also like to see us play with a regular 7. Jennings should start at 7, wallace can compete for the 6 or 8 spot.

would like to see healy, johnny murphy, quinlan and casey to start a match too.

Crash

I would be terrified of O'Leary starting against the AB's with zero experience in the green jersey other than as a sub against the argies last year, and I have no clue how anyone could call that.

He's not a bad player under most circumstances, however his distribution can often be severely limiting, and his decision making can lead to hours spent at the back of a ruck with little go forward ball, ESPECIALLY if he comes under pressure.

By all means, try him out against Canada but to unequivocally decide to put him in against NZ is foolish beyond belief. As it stands, while he isn't performing all that well at the mo, Reddan is still our most experienced half back getting regular gametime. Unless O'Leary plays something magic in the Canadian game, it should by all rights be Reddans to throw away.

Wish Reddan had decided to come back home this year actually - probably would've been significantly better for his game than playing with an underperforming wasps side.

d-gal

I will go mad if sexton makes the bench, he has only played one decent game and that was vs a beaten wasps team. Keatley is far better but I suppose coz he is playing with Connacht he has not been talked about, same with frank murphy, fine performances yet a below average o'leary and reddan are talked about.
Johne Murphy is playing well (hat trick over the weekend) and again people are only talking about two provinces in munster/leinster and geordan murphy is forgotten, playing unbelievable at the moment, scoring as well.

jam_on_toast

Going Forward wrote: »

I would be terrified of O'Leary starting against the AB's with zero experience in the green jersey other than as a sub against the argies last year, and I have no clue how anyone could call that.

i agree on some respects, but he is playing at home, under a familiar coach, with most of his club team mates against an all blacks team missing some big names. If your a professional rugby player and cant handle it, then you shouldnt be playing the game. I dont believe in this lack of experience, stuff. he'll be surrounded by experienced players. He survived HC final last year, he'll be fine. I'm not sure if he is better than reddan in a green shirt, but there is only one way to find out.

Noopti

Hope to God shaggy doesn't get anywhere near the team tbh. He has been a good player for us, but he is does not deserve a place when there are players who are in far better form that can be chosen.

My team would be:

1. Hayes 2. Best 3. Horan
4. O'Kelly 5. O'Connell
6. Quinlan 8. Heaslip 7. Wallace
9. O'Leary/Reddan
10. O'Gara
11. Bowe 12. O'Driscoll 13. Earls 14. Kearney
15. Dempsey

I realise that some of these guys are inexperienced at test level, but they are playing fantastic for their provinces and should be rewarded. Maybe Reddan in place of O'Leary, but O'Leary should come on at some stage

jam_on_toast

Noopti wrote: »

Hope to God shaggy doesn't get anywhere near the team tbh. He has been a good player for us, but he is does not deserve a place when there are players who are in far better form that can be chosen.

My team would be:

1. Hayes 2. Best 3. Horan
4. O'Kelly 5. O'Connell
6. Quinlan 8. Heaslip 7. Wallace
9. O'Leary/Reddan
10. O'Gara
11. Bowe 12. O'Driscoll 13. Earls 14. Kearney
15. Dempsey

I realise that some of these guys are inexperienced at test level, but they are playing fantastic for their provinces and should be rewarded. Maybe Reddan in place of O'Leary, but O'Leary should come on at some stage

O'kelly and dempsey are no longer needed, no matter how well they are playing, they are not going to make another WC, stop picking them. We have perfectly good back ups. Kearney is by far and away the best 15. I'd be suprised if he doesnt start at 15 for the lions.
Earls should be at 14, and fitz in the centre. Quinlan and wallace, although playing very well, are both the wrong side of 30, only one of them should start. jennings is a better call in the long run.

Noopti

jam_on_toast wrote: »

O'kelly and dempsey are no longer needed, no matter how well they are playing, they are not going to make another WC, stop picking them. We have perfectly good back ups. Kearney is by far and away the best 15. I'd be suprised if he doesnt start at 15 for the lions.
Earls should be at 14, and fitz in the centre. Quinlan and wallace, although playing very well, are both the wrong side of 30, only one of them should start. jennings is a better call in the long run.

That would be true if our goal for these games was to blood new players, it's not. It is to win the games and improve our ranking before the seedings for the next WC. Then the work to build a squad can begin.

jam_on_toast

Noopti wrote: »

That would be true if our goal for these games was to blood new players, it's not. It is to win the games and improve our ranking before the seedings for the next WC. Then the work to build a squad can begin.

thats fair enough i suppose, but kearney is a better option at 15 in my opinion and fitz is a better centre than earls. O'callaghan is better than o'kelly too.

Noopti

jam_on_toast wrote: »

thats fair enough i suppose, but kearney is a better option at 15 in my opinion and fitz is a better centre than earls. O'callaghan is better than o'kelly too.

Dempsey is a great defensive full back, which is very important when playing the All Blacks, and Argentina. Just look at the amount of kicking Argentina did in the last WC.

The call between Fitz and Earls is very close.

IMO O'Kelly is in better form right now than O'Callaghan, but it is close.

dub_skav

jam_on_toast wrote: »

thats fair enough i suppose, but kearney is a better option at 15 in my opinion and fitz is a better centre than earls. O'callaghan is better than o'kelly too.

As has been said this is all about the next 3 games and only that. On current form O'Kelly is far better than O'Callaghan. O'Kelly always seems to step it up when he's been written off

Crash

O'Callaghans been trotting around the park like he's disinterested in the majority of recent games. O'Kellys one of those that IF (and we had this same discussion last year) he can translate his club form back to international level then we're gonna need him. I'd keep him in the 15.

D-Girl - I'd hope that keatley might get into the training squad and make his merit that way - wouldnt be pushing for him to be in the 22 yet, but he's a sweet player and i'd wager if he can get into the 30 he'll impress. Murphy again would be the same, though after 46 caps for Leicester youd've hoped he'd be really fighting for it. As consistency improves for Connacht I'd wager you'll see him competing. Murphy is probably not being talked about because no one wants to have the gigantic dempsey murphy fight all over again, but this time its Dempsey/Murphy/Kearney.

jam_on_toast wrote:

I dont believe in this lack of experience, stuff.

I see your point. I think though, we spent so long with players being brought through to Ireland A and never emerging onto the senior squad, that the attitude now seems to have swung around to "if they're old enough, they're big enough" - and I don't think the baptism of fire route is the correct one to go by either. There's a careful balance that needs to be struck between the two. As I said, I have had my doubts about some aspects of O'Learys play, and there have been numerous times when he should have been pulled off in place of Strings to get the game moving again.

Anyhow, my 22

1. Horan 2. Jackman 3. Hayes
4. O'Connell 5. O'kelly
6. Quinlan 7.Jennings 8. Heaslip
9. Reddan 10. O'Gara
11. Earls/Bowe 12. Fitzgerald 13. O'Driscoll 14. Kearney
15. Dempsey

You could argue for Best over Jackman alright, or Wally instead of Jennings. My bench would then be

16. Best
17. Buckley
18. O'Callaghan
19. Wallace
20. O'Leary
21. Sexton
22. Earls/Bowe

There are serious advantages to the 14. 15. Kearney Dempsey thing - they cover each other extremely well, Dempseys kicks can often provide kearney an excellent attacking platform etc.

Picked Jennings over Wally simply because if he continues playing as he has, Jennings adds some badly needed speed at the breakdown to that back row. Though of course, I wouldn't exactly be sad to see Wally there either. Its quite an even one IMO.

Sexton on the bench - well, Keatley needs more time to develop. Throwing him in against the AB's may be a bit much.

*looks up and reads all the crap I wrote - you can kinda tell i'm unemployed at the mo can't you? *

Podge_irl

jam_on_toast wrote: »

O'kelly and dempsey are no longer needed, no matter how well they are playing, they are not going to make another WC, stop picking them.

Who ****ing cares? This is about winning the AIs and using that as a springboard to win the 6Ns. I really really detest this "its all about the WC" attitude that is creeping into rugby.

Earls should be at 14, and fitz in the centre.

I'm sorry, Earls is playing well, but he's played how many games at wing for Munster? Also Bowe plays more at 14 then 11, so if Shaggy isn't playing that's the wing Bowe will be on. I agree on Fitz in the centre though.

O'callaghan is better than o'kelly too.

O'Callaghan is an odd one. I think O'Kelly was the better lock, but his age is unfortunately against him now. He's still fantastic for Leinster but I wouldn't be sure of him being able to step up to internationals. He may well be on the bench though. DOC is a great player, but he always seems to play better when POC isn't around. He becomes anonymous and somewhat braindead when he's partnering O'Connell for Ireland it seems.

I will go mad if sexton makes the bench, he has only played one decent game and that was vs a beaten wasps team. Keatley is far better but I suppose coz he is playing with Connacht he has not been talked about, same with frank murphy, fine performances yet a below average o'leary and reddan are talked about.

Sexton has put in many, many fine performances over the last two years (not least his two games against Munster last year). He had been struggling this year but his performance against Wasps was top drawer. That's why he is being talked about. Keatley will most likely be in the squad as well.

bamboozle

]Dempsey is one of our most underrated players ever, however Kearney’s playing well and deserves to nail the full back slot, however I wont complain if Dempsey is selected at 15 and Kearney on the Wing
2 other things spring to mind, does DOC ever get injured? What’s happened to Buckley this season?
My team
Court
Flannery
Hayes
DOC
POC
Quinlan
Jennings
Heaslip
Reddan
[ROG (captain
Bowe
BOD
[Fitzgerald
Horgan
Kearney

I’d invest matchtime in Court-fed up watching Horan ‘lurking’ on the wing
Earls showed in his HC debut that he’s getting there but not there yet
Horgan has finally shown some form and physicality when I thought he had lost interest
We’ve a problem at 9, we need a season of development and consistency for Tomas O’Leary

Noopti

Buckley seems to have fallen out of favour with the managment in Munster, apparently down to his work rate not being up to scratch.

dub_skav

Noopti wrote: »

Buckley seems to have fallen out of favour with the managment in Munster, apparently down to his work rate not being up to scratch.

If you want a man to stand there and shake a ruck there's none better.

For a big man he just doesn't seem to have delivered on his potential, I do hope being shoved down the pecking order in Munster will give him the kick up the arse that he needs though.

jdivision

There's no way Jackman should be in the team, he's bottled it every time at international level. Mal O'Kelly is still a good Heineken Cup player but he hasn't the pace for international level anymore. Luke Fitzgerald in the centre would be a positive, it'll be where he ends up and even though it's a big ask he should be tried there now.

Jackz

jdivision wrote: »

Mal O'Kelly is still a good Heineken Cup player but he hasn't the pace for international level anymore.

A few meters from where I was standing at the end of the match on Saturday, he out ran Wasps backs almost the length of the pitch, that lead to Kearneys try. He has done this a few times this year in attack and defense. Mal O' Kelly is playing out of his skin.

anonymous_joe

Hmmm.

Personally, the team I'd pick would be:

1. Horan.
2. I really don't know. I think Jackman's playing the best, and I love him as a player but I'd imagine Flannery or Best might be better.
3. Hayes.

4. POC
5. DOC

However, at times I've thought both could be doing better, and I'd not complain too much if one got dropped for Mal.

6. Quinlan?
7. Jennings.
8. Heaslip.

9. Reddan - most talented Irish scrum half
10. RoG with Sexton on the bench and getting brought on if a team's looking beaten, and hopefully starting agaisnt the Canucks.

11. Bowe/Kearney/Fitzgerald
12. Fitzgerald/P. Wallace
13. BoD
14. Kearney/Horgan
15. Dempsey/Kearney

Backs are fairly hard to pick at the moment. Dempsey's making things hard for everyone and playing really well.

I'd wonder if Johne Murphy and Geordan Murphy might be worth a punt too? Anyone got any opinions on them?

zenmonk

very decisive team selection:eek:

Stev_o

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I'd wonder if Johne Murphy and Geordan Murphy might be worth a punt too? Anyone got any opinions on them?

Iv followed both of them last year and have watched all their matches (which are available) this year. Geordan is in fine form and really seems focused solid under the high ball i even saw him made a tackle! He also is doing well counter attacking from deep.

Johnny is extremely consistent won Player of the Year award with Leicester last year and they dont give that to journeymen. Probably was their best player in the EDF final vs Ospreys were he played FB.
Gets most of his game time on the wing and he's a good finisher good and strong and gets involved with play instead of waiting on the wing waiting to get the ball. Possibly need's someone to work on his passing a bit more(presuming its already being done)

He's formed a very good partnership with Matt Smith(Who if he continues to play like he is looks like a very very good wing prospect for England) and they share the same qualities in work load etc


I would like to see him start against Canada and hopefully make the bench spot for the 6N if he plays well

Crash

Actually, interesting question - hows Casey doing this season?

bleg

if sexton starts who's going to take the penalties? he's not an option unless there's another consistent goal kicker on the team i'm afraid

Podge_irl

bleg wrote: »

if sexton starts who's going to take the penalties? he's not an option unless there's another consistent goal kicker on the team i'm afraid

Sexton has been perfectly reliable with the boot in the past. I realise he was shockingly poor at the CC but that wasn't really the norm at the time. Unfortunately we can't know how good his kicking is at the moment because Contepomi is taking all the kicks even when Leinster are miles ahead, which is somewhat annoying.

[Jackass]

Good thing we've Nacewa in the squad as back up kicker too

Sexton, unfortunately, will never make it unless he becomes a great kicker. Which I don't think he can do now. Unless we send him to Connacht for a year to kick in every game and take Keatley back to give him a run in the Leinster team next season. We better have plans to re-sign him. Should never have let Keatley go if we're not going to take him back after 1, max 2 seasons. Same for Carr. Both more than able for the ML.

Geordan Murphy & Johne Murphy are both former Leinster players also (at underage at least for Geordan). What's the deal with letting these players get away? Imagine the depth in the squad if we'd held onto the likes of them and Bob Casey etc. etc.

Anyway, back on topic, my Canada team:

1. Healy
2. Jackman
3. Buckley
4. POC (captain)
5. Toner
6. Ryan
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip

9. O'Leary
10. Sexton (to kick - O'Gara on the bech constantly warming up!!)
11. Bowe
12. Fitzgerald
13. Earls
14. Johne Murphy
15. Kearney

Test Team:
1. Horan
2. Jackman
3. Hayes
4. POC
5. DOC
6. Wallace
7. Quinlan
8. Heaslip

9. Reddan
10. O'Gara
11. Trimble
12. Fitzgerald
13. O'Driscoll (presuming he's 100% fit)
14. Earls
15. Kearney