Titanoboa

Galvasean

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/37742/title/Fossil_find_may_document_largest_snake

Holy moley, that is one huge snake! :eek:
Considerably longer than the reticulated python and twice as thick as the green anaconda. Bear in mind these are the minimum size estimates!

CitizenGeek

I wish there was some kind of visual representation - that's always more entertaining

anonymous_joe

Saw a green anaconda (in a zoo thing :P) when I was away. The most malevolent looking thing I've seen. Kinda glad these are extinct. :pac:

Galvasean

CitizenGeek wrote: »

I wish there was some kind of visual representation - that's always more entertaining

Here is an artist's interpretation of what the snake would look like if it was around today:

starn

The fossilised remains of a whopping 13 meter long snake have been found in a site in Columbia

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0204/breaking66.htm

Scientists have uncovered remains of the biggest snake ever known at the site of an ancient South American rain forest in Colombia.

Titanoboa cerrejonensis measured 13 metres, weighed as much as a small car, and had a body more than a metre thick.

The monster relative of the boa constrictor lived in northern Colombia 60 million years ago.

Palaeontologist Dr Jonathan Bloch, from the University of Florida at Gainesville, US, who co-led the expedition to Colombia, said: “Truly enormous snakes really spark people’s imagination, but reality has exceeded the fantasies of Hollywood."

The 1.27-tonne snake could only have grown so large if temperatures at the equator were hotter than they are now.

Scientists estimate that a cold-blooded serpent of Titanoboa’s size would have required an average annual temperature of 30C to 34C (86F to 93F) to survive. By comparison, the average yearly temperature in the Colombian coastal city of Cartagena is about 28C (82F).

“The discovery of Titanoboa challenges our understanding of past climates and environments, as well as the biological limitations on the evolution of giant snakes,” said Dr Jason Head, from the University of Toronto in Canada, one of the authors who described the find today in the journal Nature .

Titanoboa’s enormous vertebrae were discovered by Dr Bloch’s team in the Cerrejon coal mine in northern Colombia, along with fossilised plant material from the oldest known rain forest in the Americas.

Fossil bones of giant turtles and extinct crocodiles, which may have been the snake’s prey, were also found.

“Prior to our work, there had been no fossil vertebrates found between 65 million and 55 million years ago in tropical South America, leaving us with a very poor understanding of what life was like in the northern Neotropics,” said Dr Bloch. “Now we have a window into the time just after the dinosaurs went extinct and can actually see what the animals replacing them were like.”

Galvasean

Titanoboa, is it just me or are they running out of imaginative names for prehistoric creatures.

dlofnep

Just read there on another site.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/05/mega_snake_liked_it_hot/

The longest snakes today record at about 35-40 feet, but they weighed only about one tenth of that bad boy!

Yep,
You really wouldn't want to be staring down the mouth of that thing!

Galvasean

On the left we have the vertabrae from a 17 foot (5.2m) long anaconda, being completely dwarfed by the same bone from a Titanoboa!



:eek:

Nerin

another linky for ye

http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/titanoboa/

grames_bond

enough is enough....i have had it with these muthaf*ckin Titanoboa's on this muthaf*ckin plane!!

marco_polo

In colombia scientists have discovered the fossilized remains of a 'bus sized' (rather disappointingly only in length ) ancient cousin of modern boas stretching some 13 meters in length and tipping the scales at about one tonne.

Possibly crocodile eating as well :cool:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=supersized-serpent


edit: super-snake mega-merge,
Galv

marco_polo

Hmm, methinks Scientific American needs to change the name of their RSS feeds from news to history.

Galvasean

marco_polo wrote: »

Hmm, methinks Scientific American needs to change the name of their RSS feeds from news to history.

You mean prehistory :pac:

Had a read of the Scientific American article. It's very short. (the coverage here at boards has been much better! :cool:)

Galvasean

The latest research into the physiology of Titanoboa indicates that Colombia's climate may well have been significantly warmer than previously thought.

http://www.physorg.com/news168536616.html

Galvasean

Article about the habitat Titanoboa lived in. Apparently forests back then did not have the same biodiversity as modern ones.

Satyr_The_Great

Ive seen the documentary on that fossil, pretty cool me thinks. It makes my yellow anaconda look like a dwarf.

Galvasean

Following on from our reports on the prehistoric super snake called Titanoboa, evidence has emerged of it's battles with crocodiles:

But if you're hoping for a prehistoric clash of the titans, you're out of luck: The 7-foot-long (2.1-meter-long) crocodile relative—called Cerrejonisuchus improcerus—wouldn't have stood a fighting chance against the 45-foot-long (13.7-meter-long) Titanoboa cerrejonesis, researchers say.

Full article here.

Kess73

A time travelling Deinosuchus would have been needed against that chap.

Adam Khor

Kess73 wrote: »

A time travelling Deinosuchus would have been needed against that chap.

And even so it would probably be in trouble, if we consider the size of some of the gators killed by pythons in the Everglades!

It's a shame that Chubutophis and Madtsoia are so little known; some remains of these suggest they could grow around as large as Titanoboa... and some species of Madtsoia even coexisted with dinosaurs!!

Adam Khor

It's a dyrosaurid, part of an extinct family of crocodilians, and it measured six meters long, which would make it a very big crocodile today, but a rather small prehistoric one (despite the press calling it a "giant croc").
It is possible that this crocodilian was an occassional food item for the gigantic snake. It fed mostly on fish and its name is Acherontisuchus, which is pretty cool (the Acheron or "river of pain" was the main river of Hades in Greek mythology; the spirits of the dead had to cross the Acheron in Charon's boat to reach their final resting place).

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/09/110916-prehistoric-crocodile-new-species-largest-snake-titanoboa-science/

Here's a pic of Acherontisuchus and a Titanoboa that fortunately, doesn´t seem big or hungry enough to pay it much attention.

Galvasean

Always hated that dryosaurids have nothing to do with this guy:



It's really weird how nowadays a 6 meter croc would be a super heavyweight. Back then he'd just be a middleweight.

Adam Khor

Galvasean wrote: »

Always hated that dryosaurids have nothing to do with this guy:



It's really weird how nowadays a 6 meter croc would be a super heavyweight. Back then he'd just be a middleweight.

They are called dyrosaurs, not dryosaurs

Galvasean

Dyslexia strikes again...

Kess73

Galvasean wrote: »

Always hated that dryosaurids have nothing to do with this guy:



It's really weird how nowadays a 6 meter croc would be a super heavyweight. Back then he'd just be a middleweight.

Nah in the pro ranks he would just be a heavyweight.:p:pac:

Adam Khor

http://tv.broadwayworld.com/article/TITANOBOA-MONSTER-SNAKE-Premieres-41-on-the-Smithsonian-Channel-20120305

It was about time!

Plus, here u have a Titanoboa drawn in the act of strangling a crocodile- by non other than Dinotopia creator James Gurney

Mickeroo

I wasn't even aware of this guy before! Will keep an eye out for the docu. A giant snake,whats not to love?

Adam Khor

Mickeroo wrote: »

I wasn't even aware of this guy before! Will keep an eye out for the docu. A giant snake,whats not to love?

You didn´t know about Titanoboa?? :O

Mickeroo

Adam Khor wrote: »

You didn´t know about Titanoboa?? :O

Pretty shocking, right?

Adam Khor

Mickeroo wrote: »

Pretty shocking, right?

Considering how it was (perhaps unfairly) declared the undisputed largest snake of all times and was on the news for ages, even stealing the thunder of the creatures found in the same formation (whenever one was announced, it was as "food for Titanoboa")... yes, somewhat.

Galvasean

What I want to know is when did the Smithsonian get their own TV channel and what will be the alternative if/when it is released over here?

Mickeroo

Adam Khor wrote: »

Considering how it was (perhaps unfairly) declared the undisputed largest snake of all times and was on the news for ages, even stealing the thunder of the creatures found in the same formation (whenever one was announced, it was as "food for Titanoboa")... yes, somewhat.

In my defence I don't watch the news much and even when I do the irish news doesn't give much air time to palaeontology unfortunately

Galvasean

Mickeroo wrote: »

In my defence I don't watch the news much and even when I do the irish news doesn't give much air time to palaeontology unfortunately

That's why you come straight here for the latest scoops

Adam Khor

Mickeroo wrote: »

In my defence I don't watch the news much and even when I do the irish news doesn't give much air time to palaeontology unfortunately

Haha no worries, I don´t watch the news either- I read them online, and only those related to subjects I care about

Adam Khor

The Smithsonian is doing a great job of promoting its Titanoboa documentary; here are some photos of the impressive life-sized model they put at New York's Grand Central Station, depicted in the act of swallowing a crocodile.














Of course, they describe it as "the T-Rex of snakes", but for once I think I like the comparison. Few creatures deserve the title of monster better than this snake :cool:

Oh and here's the show's official site where you can see the previews and some interesting clips:

http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/site/sn/show.do?show=140671#main

Mickeroo

Jebus, I hope they have Conan the Barbarian on standby in case that thing comes to life :eek:

steddyeddy

For the love of st.pubus that things huge!!! :eek::eek:

Kess73

Mickeroo wrote: »

Jebus, I hope they have Conan the Barbarian on standby in case that thing comes to life :eek:

Thulsa Doom won't be happy if another snake gets the chop.

Kess73

That display model just looks wrong to my eyes. The bulk versus length looks very wrong for an animal that uses constriction as it's main method of finishing off it's soon to be meal. Could just be the angle of the pics that is throwing me off though, especially that second pic.

Galvasean

It looks a bit squat in some pics, but I'd say if it was laid out 'flat' it would look less so.

Rubecula

The model may be incorrect in some ways, and it probably is to be truthful. Yet the model with people around it makes for a far more impressive picture than a sketch or artist's impression. May just be me of course, but I do like photographs with people in them as it gives a much better image in my head.

Adam Khor

Well, it looks much thicker on the front than it would normally look like because it's swallowing a big crocodile :pac:

But even if it wasn´t, not all constricting snakes have the same proportions. Take the blood python; extremely stout for its size, yet it kills by constriction anyways.
I read that new Titanoboa remains have been found so, maybe there's enough material to assume it was a particularly robust snake as well?

Kess73

The blood python is a very good modern snake to use as an example of bulk to length extremes in a snake imho.


Most modern snakes that are overly bulky in build have a head that is wdier than the neck and the neck and the body just after it is a lot less bulky than the middle third and most of the final third with the tail being very short and getting thin quickly.


The Titanoboa (going by earlier reports) seemed to be of similar design, but of late it seems to be turning into a tank of a snake in terms of build with it staying pretty bulky from head almost to tail tip.

It is most likely just me though and the angles the pics are taken from.

I was taking the swallowing of the croc into account and factoring in some neck stretch as a result, but I think what also bothered me was the width of the skull compared to the first third of the snake (even taking the croc into account assuming the croc takes up anything up to 50% of the first third). Just seems wrong as a bulky in build snake needs that bit to be more flexible than the rest of it's body, and the thicker that bit gets (and closer in diameter to the second third) the slower the snaker would be in striking, biting, changing direction etc etc.

I just think waaaaaaaaaay too much into things.

Adam Khor

Well, the size of the snake alone does get you wondering how it could strike etc but just because something is hard to imagine... I sooo wish we could see one alive tho

Galvasean

I'd say it must have been fairly aquatic. When you look at the green anaconda today, they almost never hunt out of water as they are too bulky. Under water however, all bets are off!

Galvasean

Giant snake needs giant thread...

*merged*

Myrddin

I remember seeing a docu before about it, at least where insects are concerned it said they grew so big because of the oxygen content in the atmosphere was higher than it is today.

Rubecula

The availability helped insects grow large, this is true. But there are a lot of other variables to take into consideration too. Temperature included. It is not the be all and end all to simply say they grew large because of the amount of oxygen available.

Oxygen didn't have a lot to do with the huge mammals that formed what we call the mega-fauna. Food types, food availability, evolution and environment all have a lot to do with the large sizes of animals, especially the vertebrates.

If Titanoboa ate crocodiles then it would need to be big enough to eat them. If the crocodiles were large, then it becomes logical for the snake to be larger.

A King Cobra eats other snakes, and is consequently larger than it's prey for example.

Large herbivores are usually that size for two reasons. They need a big stomach to process the food they eat, (so predators have a tendancy to evolve into larger forms to eat them. Not a firm rule by the way.) The other reason herbivores may be large is to defend themselves from predators.

I am afraid I am not too sure why whales get to be so big however. Possibly to stay warm in the cold of the oceans as a larger body loses heat more slowly as a percentage. As the Blue Whale is as far as we know the largest animal to have ever lived, the higher oxygen levels in the distant past have nothing to do with it being so big.

Kess73

Galvasean wrote: »

I'd say it must have been fairly aquatic. When you look at the green anaconda today, they almost never hunt out of water as they are too bulky. Under water however, all bets are off!

The aquatic side of things makes the most sense alright, and it would make the most sense for such a huge snake. But if we take the blood python (which was an excellent choice by Adam as it is built in a very similar way as to what has been published about Titanoboa, and if much closer in terms of build than the heaviest modern snake which is the anaconda) and we look at where it is mostly found in the wild, a funny detail emerges.

This very bulky snake does get found in marshy areas alright, but most sightings are on higher ground. Now there is a very big difference between a 30lb blood python and a 2,500lb Titanoboa ( as I display a gift for understatement:)), but the very very similar builds and bulk distribution makes me wonder what type of predator it was.

Kess73

Adam Khor wrote: »

Well, the size of the snake alone does get you wondering how it could strike etc but just because something is hard to imagine... I sooo wish we could see one alive tho

Totally agree. Way too often the so called experts are totally blinkered to any other way of thinking. Jack Horner I am looking at you.:mad:

Adam Khor

Rubecula wrote: »

If Titanoboa ate crocodiles then it would need to be big enough to eat them. If the crocodiles were large, then it becomes logical for the snake to be larger.

Or put in other words, you have an ecosystem with large prey available (turtles and crocodiles) which creates an open niche for a very large predator, and the ancestor of Titanoboa steps forward (ok, slithers forwards) to fill that niche. Hadn´t the snake been around said niche could have been taken by something else, probably also a croc, that would become gigantic as well...

Rubecula wrote: »

I am afraid I am not too sure why whales get to be so big however. Possibly to stay warm in the cold of the oceans as a larger body loses heat more slowly as a percentage. As the Blue Whale is as far as we know the largest animal to have ever lived, the higher oxygen levels in the distant past have nothing to do with it being so big.

There's also the fact that its giant size protects it against most marine predators, and since it doesn´t have to support its weight anymore it can get as large as it "wants"... many aquatic creatures grow quite big because ot this.

Kess73 wrote: »

The aquatic side of things makes the most sense alright, and it would make the most sense for such a huge snake. But if we take the blood python (which was an excellent choice by Adam as it is built in a very similar way as to what has been published about Titanoboa, and if much closer in terms of build than the heaviest modern snake which is the anaconda) and we look at where it is mostly found in the wild, a funny detail emerges.

This very bulky snake does get found in marshy areas alright, but most sightings are on higher ground. Now there is a very big difference between a 30lb blood python and a 2,500lb Titanoboa ( as I display a gift for understatement:)), but the very very similar builds and bulk distribution makes me wonder what type of predator it was.

Well the blood python is an ambush, "sit and wait" predator... so maybe if Titanoboa wasn´t hunting like an anaconda, it may have been a sit and wait predator as well, but the question is, what kind of prey on land would be large enough to feed such a gigantic snake?
To my knowledge there weren´t many large land mammals or reptiles at the time, were they?