Confirmed: Panasonic 50PZ81 working with Irish MPEG4 DTT (pics attached)

mullingar

I got my panny 50pz81b today and I can now confirm that it can decode MPEG4 DTT

I am using Clermont Carn transmitter here in Mullingar.

danjo

What type of antenna are you using Mullingar?

mullingar

Im using a Televes DAT45 mounted at the back of the house, about 4m off ground level, I dont have a roof ladder!

Its a perfect picture, no inteference or signal loss. The analogue from Clermont is very poor, DTT is 1000% (yes 1000%) better. Not bad for a very fringe reception area.

I do also have a Triax 100A & a tiny generic Group B aerial on my chimney, about 8m above ground level for Cairn Hill & BrougherMountain.

danjo

Mullingar,

Thanks for the info.

Danjo

bk

Hi danjo,

Any chance you could answer a few questions?

- How much did the TV cost?
- Where did you get it?
- How is the SD (FTA and DVD) picture look on it?
- Are you happy with the TV?
- Any idea how much power it uses in normal operation?
- Do you play games on it?

My old Sony 32" CRT is starting to die and this looks like an excellent TV.

slegs

Do you get a combined DTT and Freesat EPG on this TV?

mullingar

bk wrote: »

Hi danjo,

Any chance you could answer a few questions?

- How much did the TV cost?
- Where did you get it?
- How is the SD (FTA and DVD) picture look on it?
- Are you happy with the TV?
- Any idea how much power it uses in normal operation?
- Do you play games on it?

My old Sony 32" CRT is starting to die and this looks like an excellent TV.

I paid £1450 with a 5yr warranty (panasonic) in Richer Sounds.
SD is as good as you can expect, other than that an excellent TV


The EPG is separate, there is a quick select button to flick between DTT,Freesat & Analogue

shift4311

Thanks also for the info.Looking for the mpeg4 question to be answered for ages.
Cheers.

bk

mullingar wrote: »

I paid £1450 with a 5yr warranty (panasonic) in Richer Sounds.
SD is as good as you can expect, other than that an excellent TV

Thanks for the info, it sounds great, I didn't realise RS had the PZ81, it isn't listed on their site.

John Dough

@ Mullingar Does it have a HD sat tuner or SD ?

mullingar

Yes, the sat receiver will show all FTA HD content, it should also show any DTT HD stuff if RTE starts a HD transmission

I am hopefully borrowing soon a Dragon cam to see if it will also allow C4HD on a FTV FSFS card

Ninjakettle

I mailed Panasonic today to get a definitive answer about this question before i read this thread. Their response was

Thank you for your e-mail enquiry.

In response, I would clarify that the PZ81B range of televisions come with an analogue, DVB-T MPEG2 and freesat tuner. There is not an MPEG4 DVB-T tuner.

We trust that the above information will be of assistance to you. However, of course, if you should have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us on xxxxxx or email us using the following email address:

<removed>

Kind regards
xxxxxxxxxxxx
Administrator
Dealer Support / Correspondence Team
Panasonic UK Ltd

Obviously i've asked about the PZ81"B", could you tell me what letter is at the end of yours mullingar?

mullingar

Yes, to be exact its a th-50pz81b.

It does not state anywhere in the manual that the dvb-t is mpeg4 compatible, only for the sat decoder.

Maybe to cut cost, all digital signals (sat&dtt) go through its internal mpeg4 decoder, so its simply just a fluke that it can decode mpeg4 dtt.

Ninjakettle

that's very interesting, thanks very much for the info. It's annoying that panasonic would say the sets dont decode MPEG4.

I'm on the verge of buying a 42pz81B so it's a fairly important factor for me.
It would be great if any other Pz81B owners could confirm Mullingar's findings:D

Zaphod

Ninjakettle wrote: »

It would be great if any other Pz81B owners could confirm Mullingar's findings:D

Confirmation since August:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56819591&postcount=6

byte

You should reply to Panasonic, Ninjakettle and tell them of their error!

I guess it's possible that both the sat tuner and DTT tuner both use the same MPEG4 chip

STB

Thats the most likely scenario byte. That is the basis the technomate works on using the same chip (and hence the reason you cant record off dtt whilst watching dvb-s).

Its a nice bit of kit alright. The reason why Panasonic have told you that it has an MPEG2 chip is because they have being branding it as "freeview" and the general assumption is.... The reality is that they havent tested it in the UK as there are no terestrial MPEG4 signals to decode.

The other strange thing is that there are claims on sales websites that it has a SD terrestrial tuner. Again untested. I couldnt see anything in the manual that jumped out at me (other than I see that it also has a specific AVC encoder/decoder in this as well that plays AVCHD files off SD).

There is a number for Panasonic Ireland on the last page of the manual. Perhaps you could let them know and get them to investigate further. I'm sure they'd be delighted to know that they have a very marketable product!
http://tda.panasonic-europe-service.com/docs/2z48fda6bdz3z26f00z656ez706466z22z52cd5610d7c01001d5081e6f5051a3612006d8a2/tsn2/data/EU/TH42PZ81B/OI/792268/TQB0678-2.pdf

Mark#1

Hi Mullingar.

Great news with your 50PZ81! You must be chuffed - award-winning TV with Irish DTT and Freesat HD all in one quality unit! Watch sales of PZ81s (and other brand's inevitable equivalents) get a boost, though not necessarily from ROI, eh?

Can I ask what you've been using as a tuner prior to getting this TV - Sky+/NTL, Freesat/free satellite, analog terrestrial?

If you had some sort of PVR, do you plan to have some means or recording with the PZ81? If yes, what have you in mind?

mullingar wrote: »

Yes, to be exact its a th-50pz81b.

It does not state anywhere in the manual that the dvb-t is mpeg4 compatible, only for the sat decoder.

Maybe to cut cost, all digital signals (sat&dtt) go through its internal mpeg4 decoder, so its simply just a fluke that it can decode mpeg4 dtt.

I wonder if it could be assumed that all the latest Panasonic TVs will be able (even if by fluke) to receive MPEG4 DTT, or will it be just the PZ81s with the Freesat tuners?


Thanks and congrats,

Mark

markthewall

Hey guys,

I am interested in getting a PZ81 set aswell, but I would be sold if it can work with the Irish MPEG4 DTT.
It seems that it will work according to people here but I am just off the phone with panasonic and they say that from the info they have (guy was technical it seemed) that there was no MPEG4 DVB-T tuner on the set and that the set is built to MPEG2 DVB-T spec.

mullingar

I already had 2 x Dodgybox's with NI FTV cards (still use for ch 5 & its sister channels)and an old Panasonic DMR E50 recorder as a PVR (Only does DVD-R and DVD-RAM). It can time-slip and does a crude pausing of live tv!

I got RTE via Cairn Hill in Longford.

I am planning on buying a French DMR-EX78EC-K (http://translate.google.ie/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.panasonic.fr%2Fhtml%2Ffr_FR%2F1019046%2Findex.html&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 with a TNT Tuner & 250G HD. This is fully compatible with Panasonics Viera Link, so all controlled via TV remote

The French TNT is a MPEG4 system, but I am still doing some homework to see if its compatible for Irish DTT.

The main proble with French TV equipment is the analogue receiver. The PAL signal is B/C/G only and no Irish&UK Pal-I. i.e Picture but no sound

mullingar

markthewall wrote: »

Hey guys,

I am interested in getting a PZ81 set aswell, but I would be sold if it can work with the Irish MPEG4 DTT.
It seems that it will work according to people here but I am just off the phone with panasonic and they say that from the info they have (guy was technical it seemed) that there was no MPEG4 DVB-T tuner on the set and that the set is built to MPEG2 DVB-T spec.

I will take better pics & maybe a video of it later in operation to prove it.

Is there any pics/vid you prefer to see?


And @ Panasonic Customer Services: If you are reading this send me a PM!!

STB

mullingar wrote: »

The French TNT is a MPEG4 system, but I am still doing some homework to see if its compatible for Irish DTT.

Sorry Mullingar, its not. TNT is just a name like DTT, in this case the name of the Fench DTT Service.

In France at the moment TNT is Mpeg2 and Mpeg 4. Mpeg 2 is used for the fta channels, Mpeg 4for the pay tv.

Thats why you should be very careful that when you look for receiver or Tvs on french sites that you dont use "TNT" alone. Make sure you use "HD" also. In doubct always check the spec! It wont become compulsory that all DTT receivers/TV's sold have an MPEG4 chip until December, 2008.

Mpeg 4 H.264 products sold on the french market will of course work here......

markthewall

I totally believe that you are receiving\decoding MPEG4 Mullingar, as is Renshai it seems and STB's post seems to explain why this is possible.
I just find Panasonic's answers troubling and i worry that a future firmware upgrade or even the firmware on the set i buy would not have the same success you guys have.

A more complete answer from panasonic would be great, but i've tried mailing and ringing but got the same answers as ninjakettle.

Mark#1

Hmmm...

Just spoke with Panasonic UK (again . . .).

The guy I spoke with suggested that in Ireland, the PZ81B range shouldn't be able to receive MPEG4 DTT, but that model numbers "PY81P" or "PZ81L" (its equivalent for the Irish market) will be able to receive MPEG4 DTT, and that it's likely that any "xx81x" TV that is receiving MPEG4 DTT is actually either one of the above, and not a PZ81B.

Curious, eh?

He first suggested that the TV that is receiving digital TV may be close enough to the border to be receivig UK Freeview, till I clarified that it was Irish DTT that was being received, and not UK Freeview.

He also gave me some numbers for companies to contact in Ireland who would be able to shed some light on this.

They appear to be distributors, rather than retailers. I called one and was told that he shouldn't really even be talking to me as a consumer , but he was actually pretty helpful, first suggesting that I enquire with the likes of DID for example, but then conceding that those guys probably wouldn't be able to help. :rolleyes:

He's given me an email address which he says will be able to provide good info.

I'll post when I hear something back.

Mullingar, do you think any of the Panasonic DVD recorders on sale in France could work as an MPEG4 DTT tuner / PVR in Ireland, or just the DMR-EX87 you mention? EDIT - posted before I saw STB's response - sorry.


Mark

mullingar

STB wrote: »

Sorry Mullingar, its not. TNT is just a name like DTT, in this case the name of the Fench DTT Service.

In France at the moment TNT is Mpeg2 and Mpeg 4. Mpeg 2 is used for the fta channels, Mpeg 4for the pay tv.

Thats why you should be very careful that when you look for receiver or Tvs on french sites that you dont use "TNT" alone. Make sure you use "HD" also. In doubct always check the spec! It wont become compulsory that all DTT receivers/TV's sold have an MPEG4 chip until December, 2008.

Mpeg 4 H.264 products sold on the french market will of course work here......

Yes you seem to be correct, after a quick google search TNT-HD is the MPEG4 part and is mostly for Pay-TV and THT-SD is MPEG2.

So it 'seems' that any panasonic machine that can decode a HD signal is suitable for our MPEG4 DTT.


I guess I will have to wait 2 more months!

mullingar

Mark#1 wrote: »

Hmmm...

Just spoke with Panasonic UK (again . . .).

The guy I spoke with suggested that in Ireland, the PZ81B range shouldn't be able to receive MPEG4 DTT, but that model numbers "PY81P" or "PZ81L" (its equivalent for the Irish market) will be able to receive MPEG4 DTT, and that it's likely that any "xx81x" TV that is receiving MPEG4 DTT is actually either one of the above, and not a PZ81B.

I just looked a expansys.fr for any TNT-HD TV's and loads of Panasonic screens (including PZ81's are spec'd for TNT-HD or MPEG4!

http://www.expansys.fr/c.aspx?t=cat&f=831

STB

Sorry Mullingar you may have picked me up wrong, you dont neccesarily have to wait 2 months. The point I was trying to make was that the French government made it compulsory for retailers that all TVs (over a certain no of inches afaik) will have to have an MPEG4 tuner from December, 2008. This was to stop unsuitable products being sold on the market (a bit like here, yet not enforced to that degree here, yet).

You can of course buy the technology in France at the moment but its not ALL Mpeg4 now. Either way be careful what you buy on the internet!!!!

Anyhow to answer the question a simple phrase should help ""TNT HD MPEG4 intégrée"

example......for TV's

http://www.nextag.fr/TNT-HD-MPEG4-integre/zzfrzB1z0--search-html

for STB's

http://www.cdiscount.com/high-tech/lecteurs/enregistreurs-dvd-et-tnt/reception-tv-tnt-satellite/recepteur-tnt-hd-mpeg4/l-106270707.html

The Netbox one for example has a 30gig hard drive for recording and acts as a media centre (plays divx etc). But you must remember there are only 4 channels on at present. So whether its worth it when you can buy a technomate or a Mvision or clarketech box that has a PVR and sat tuner as well for an extra 100 is probably debatable.

Mark#1

Just spoke with another of the distributors that Panasonic UK gave me details for.

He told me that MPEG4 DTT is being launched in the Guinness Storehouse today, so I just rang them too - it is. It's in flight as we speak and will be wrapping up about 3pm today.

He suggested that, rather than Mullingar's PZ81B receiving MPEG4 DTT by fluke, it may be receiving MPEG2 DTT test signals - are these still happening?

He says Irish consumers should be wary of assuming that UK TVs will work with MPEG4 DTT into the future.

He said he's not aware of any MPEG4-capable Panasonic TV, and reckons the PY81P and PZ81L are MPEG2.

He's more or less of the opinion (shared by Watty (IIUC) and others, including me, though Mullingar's and Renshai's experiences are of interest) that a TV is just the display device and that separate receivers is what pretty much every house in Ireland will eventually have.

Here's the biggie: He also conceded that Panasonic TVs bought from the UK represent far better value than the same TV bought in Ireland. For those that aren't bored of my whining yet, a TH-50PZ80B can be shipped from the UK for €1600, while one will cost you €2500 in ROI.


Mark

bk

Mark#1 wrote: »

For those that aren't bored of my whining yet, a TH-50PZ80B can be shipped from the UK for €1600, while one will cost you €2500 in ROI.

Sorry to go OT, but actually I've seen it for €1505 delivered to Ireland from the UK. Alliance Electric have it for €2200!!

I'm trying to decide between the TH-50PZ80B and the TH-50PZ81B, any opinions?

Also does anyone know if you buy off the web, will you still get the 5 year warranty?

Ninjakettle

Some good info here, thanks guys.

I rang Panasonic today and got pretty much the same answer as you Mark#1
I suppose there is a slim chance there's still some test mpeg2 test broadcasts, but everything i've read says that the MPEG2 broadcast trials had ended. Is there a way you could check that on your set Mullingar?

I suppose it's not a deal breaker for me and i'll probably still pull the trigger on this tv tomorrow, but it would be a bonus to know it did Mpeg4 DVB-T.

Ninjakettle

Mullingar, does the PZ81B have an analogue UHF tuner? Also, (might be a dumb question) will DTT be broadcast over UHF only throughout Ireland or is VHF involved? - just wondering as i'm in galway and it's mixed there at the moment i think.


<off topic>
BK, try ringing Richersounds. Even though it's not on the website, they can probably order it in. Also, yes, they do the 5yr warranty, but you pay 10% extra for it - you can always have a haggle to

As for the type of TV, i had the same dilema though in the 42 inch range, and i went for pz81 after reading many reviews and the desire to have integrated freesat
<\off topic>

mullingar

@ ninjakettle:

The PZ81B has a UHF only tuner. No VHF. Both my analogue & DTT are transmitted on UHF.

If you have VHF in your area you can buy a band expander on flea-bay that changes the VHF frequencies to UHF, these were common about 10 yrs ago and can be got quite cheap.

@ BK

I believe only the pz81 has the mpeg4 decoder for the built in for freesat HD stations. The pz80 does not have either.

The 50pz80's can be got for around £1100-1200

For the 5 yr warranty, only some dealers offer this promotional warranty FOC from Panasonic including RS, other dealers offer their own type.

bk

mullingar wrote: »

@ BK

I believe only the pz81 has the mpeg4 decoder for the built in for freesat HD stations. The pz80 does not have either..

Thanks Mullingar, I live in an apartment where I can't get Sat anyway, so not an issue for me, I'm wondering if there is a difference in picture quality, etc. some of the reviews around the web seem to indicate that there is, the pz81 having IFC which the pz80 doesn't.

On the other hand many people seem to say that IFC is bad and they normally turn it off, how do you find it?

Mark#1

bk wrote: »

Sorry to go OT, but actually I've seen it for €1505 delivered to Ireland from the UK. Alliance Electric have it for €2200!!

I'm trying to decide between the TH-50PZ80B and the TH-50PZ81B, any opinions?

Also does anyone know if you buy off the web, will you still get the 5 year warranty?

Personally, even if PZ81 TVs do receive DTT and Freesat, I think I'll still get a PZ80. I want PVR functionality, and as I understand it, this dictates that your PVR unit is the tuner in your set-up, so the tuner(s) in whatever TV I choose will be superfluous.

Again, and to paraphrase Watty - a TV today is nothing more than a display device: it doesn't need any tuner at all, just some HDMI inputs and/or SCARTs.

bk - where have you seen 50PZ80 for €1505? Got a link? There are plenty of great prices from UK sellers, but not all deliver to ROI - 1staudiovisual charge £130 shipping on top of their £1150 TV price.

AFAIK, the free 5-year Panasonic warranty ("pan-European", remember!) is only on TVs bought in-store. I'd like to hear what price RS will do the 50PZ80B for . . .


Mark

Zaphod

Mark#1 wrote: »

He suggested that, rather than Mullingar's PZ81B receiving MPEG4 DTT by fluke, it may be receiving MPEG2 DTT test signals - are these still happening?

That's horsesh*t on his part. All the MPEG2 transmissions have finished.

If the Panasonic TV has an MPEG2/4 capable chip for Freesat/DVB-S/S2, why would they go to the additional expense of having a second "MPEG2 only" chip for Freeview/DVB-T?

Panasonic aren't supposed to be selling the Freesat TV's in ROI officially anyway (they were withdrawn from Argos), so it's not surprising that they are trying to convince you that the TV isn't suitable for MPEG4 over DVB-T. Whether it's deliberate policy or willful ignorance is hard to tell.

bk

Mark#1 wrote: »

bk - where have you seen 50PZ80 for €1505? Got a link? There are plenty of great prices from UK sellers, but not all deliver to ROI - 1staudiovisual charge £130 shipping on top of their £1150 TV price.

Sorry, turns out it is €1555, delivery is €70, not €20 like I first thought (from their help section), still a great deal, cheapest I can find:

http://www.laptopsdirect.ie/d_TH-50PZ80B/version.asp

I agree with everything you say about built in Freesat not being important, personally I have 9 different boxes sitting under my TV, so one more won't make a difference.

The only thing that is causing my indecision is that the PZ81 is all black, which might go better with my other furniture and some reviews indicate it might have better picture quality. But the PZ80 looks like a great deal and I'm very tempted by it.

JonathonS

I've asked a few shops around town about getting a TV that will receive MPEG4. The general opinion was that any set with a MPEG4 tuner may or may not work properly. It looks like there is already a few out there like the Panny with MPEG4 tuner, but right now RTE are only sending out pictures and sound - no text etc. Only when RTE have a fully-functioning test will we be able to check if a TV really works. I heard that some sets have already been recalled in France because of such problems. I'm thinking of just getting a Freesat box for the moment, and hold off a bit longer on the TV.

STB

Sorry Jonathon but you are being told lies. If it has an MPEG4 chip it will work. Shipping the TVs from the UK as a matter of convenience is easier for the retailers though. But of course those digital tuners WILL NEVER work for the Irish DTT because they are MPEG2 (suited to the British market).

Rubbish. The text system will be via MHEG5 middleware. Retailers know what the spec is. They have been written to by the Department of Communications. And RTE are currently sending out text. And subtitles.

http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/National+DTT/Useful+Information.htm

I suggest that if are thinking of buying a TV that you do so on the internet since the retailers would rather tell you lies than stock the proper products. I wonder what the brand name manufacturers think of it all. Not a whole lot I would imagine given that they can even update their "irish" websites with the proper product list.

Heres a list of LCDs and plasmas that have MPEG4 tuners in them all under 2 grand.

Phillips 37PFL603H - €1190
Phillips 42PFL5603H - €1190
Phillips 47PFL7603H - €1590
Phillips 47PFL5603H- €1390
Panasonic TH42P281E - €1190
Panasonic TH46PZ81F - €1590
Panasonic TH50OPZ81E €2090
Samsung LE32A676 - €1249
Samsung LE40A568 - €1190
Samsung LE37A568 - € 990
Samsung LE46A568 - €1480
Sony KDL 40W4000E - €1290
Sony KDL 46W4000E - €1690
Sony KDL 32E4000 AEP- €1190
Sony KDL 324020AEP - €1190
Toshiba 37XV515DG - €899
LG 37LG5500 - €879

Thats just those under €2k. Sharp Aquos have a range of Mpeg4s in the top end.

Here have a look yourself on this comparison price site http://www.twenga.fr/search.php?q=TNT+HD

John Dough

STB is right most of in the shop assistants I spoke to about the Mpeg 4 system have not got a clue about the technicalities of the sets they are just sales people with little or no training in this area so we should be blaming the manufacurers for not insisting on proper training in this area.
However one shop I visited recently a Sony shop in Manchesters Trafford centre was able to guarantee that all current Sony W series tvs Have mpeg 4 tuner decoding chips and in addition the current dvd/hdd recorders models 890 and 799 had these fitted also ,so it seems some makers DO train their staff!!:D

John Dough

Zaphod wrote: »

That's horsesh*t on his part. All the MPEG2 transmissions have finished.

If the Panasonic TV has an MPEG2/4 capable chip for Freesat/DVB-S/S2, why would they go to the additional expense of having a second "MPEG2 only" chip for Freeview/DVB-T?

Panasonic aren't supposed to be selling the Freesat TV's in ROI officially anyway (they were withdrawn from Argos), so it's not surprising that they are trying to convince you that the TV isn't suitable for MPEG4 over DVB-T. Whether it's deliberate policy or willful ignorance is hard to tell.

From what I have read and heard so far it appears the reason the Panny 81 series has been not released for sale here is because it does not have a wideband tuner suitable for cable systems with VHF and only has the std UHF tuner which I presume only does chs-21-69 so would only suit peeps with UHF aerials on their property.55% of households (maybe more now) have cable access.
Ok you could use a televerta but they degrade signal something awful.

It seems the Sony Ws have the correct tuner but alas no HD freesat receiver.

kuro_man

according to www.hdtvtest.co.uk the PZ81 is essentially PZ85 + freesat HD receiver. It should really be called a PZ86.

The PZ85 (and, therefore, the PZ81) is supposed to be higher spec TV over the PZ80.

Zonda999

kuro_man wrote: »

according to www.hdtvtest.co.uk the PZ81 is essentially PZ85 + freesat HD receiver. It should really be called a PZ86.

The PZ85 (and, therefore, the PZ81) is supposed to be higher spec TV over the PZ80.

Noticed that too. Makes it seem even better value.

The Cush

I posted this over in the satellite forum earlier

In today's Sunday Independent Life magazine there is a full page advert for the Panasonic Vierea freesat TV range 32"-50".
The ad says "To find out more about the full range visit panasonic.ie"

The 5 TV's are displayed with the freesat logo, is this an error or are panasonic releasing these models on the Irish market (with or without VHF tuners?).
The Panasonic website still displays a seperate range of palsma and LCD tvs for Ireland

If this range is now officially available in Ireland is this the end for Boxer DTT?
Any update on contracts being signed between Boxer and the BCI?

ei9go

Got one of these from Pixmania a couple of months ago and it will only receive sound and "NO Video" is displayed on the screen. I had thought that it would have an MPEG4 tuner as it received TNT but did'nt realise at the time that TNT also used MPEG2.

Following a post and a link on boards , I ordered two cams from DVBshop. They are Turbosat MPEG4 Viaccess Cam which converts the MPEG4 to MPEG2.

This does not work on the Panasonic but works perfectly on a JVC LT-19DA9BJ.

The Panasonic reports that the cam is present but it does not unscramble the MPEG4 signal.

Any thoughts

John Dough

The only other Mpeg4 cam at the moment is the Conax one if you borrow one it would be worth a try.

STB

PANASONIC TH-37PX81FV is the model you should have got. It has an Mpeg4 tuner.

Likely that panny's are not compatible. Neotions list of compatability is below.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57363370&postcount=1

The cam turbosat are selling is the Neotion Cam I am presuming.

Do not buy the Conax one. It would make no difference. Conax is only the encryption bit.