Government parties falling apart!

mike65

Okay a small exaggeration but its all happening, a FFer Joe Behan has resigned from the party Jim McDaid is waivering and talk of two Greens possibly following.

Mike

snubbleste

I heard Joe Behan on the radio and he said it was not just about the medical cards issue in the budget but FF moving away from its ethos in the last few years.

I hope he remains independent and does not revert to vote with FF in the Dáil

jmayo

mike65 wrote: »

Okay a small exaggeration but its all happening, a FFer Joe Behan has resigned from the party Jim McDaid is waivering and talk of two Greens possibly following.

Mike

Why does the term "Rats and sinking ships" come to mind.
How come he didn't have this crisis of believe back in 2006 or 2007 !
FF should remain in power, they should not be left off the hook by slinging off now that they left us in the sh***.
They were around for the good times and were great at self congratulating themselves for them. Now of course they have nothing to do with anything.
Now lets see what they are made of and for once they should be around to clean up the mess they and their buddies helped create.

Lil' Smiler

snubbleste wrote: »

I heard Joe Behan on the radio and he said it was not just about the medical cards issue in the budget but FF moving away from its ethos in the last few years.

I hope he remains independent and does not revert to vote with FF in the Dáil

True. I agree, hes a good man to be honest. I hope he stays Independent.

podge79

he'll probably become one of these independent FF'ers you see every so often and vote accordingly. But I admire his stand - others will just shrug shoulders and murmur "what can I do"

Lil' Smiler

Yeah I hope others follow him.
He's my local TD aswell as Dick(head) Roche. Joe has tried his best for our area and fair play to him for doing this but I don't know how much it'd convince or encourage others to follow.

Apparently a former Minister for FF also said to the TV3 politics lady Ursula, that it "took 80 years to build Fianna Fail but maybe only 1 budget to take it back down".. I think she said budget anyway

sovtek

jmayo wrote: »

Now of course they have nothing to do with anything.
Now lets see what they are made of and for once they should be around to clean up the mess they and their buddies helped create.

Maybe you're right but from what I can see they will just make things worse. Rather lets get people in that can do the job right and then sort out who needs to be dragged out into the street.

dresden8

Has this ever happened before in FF?

I see Mary Coughlan got a mention, in a bad way.

Stephen

There's a huge thread about this over on politics.ie at the moment, currently at 15 pages. The usual FF mouthpieces are being mysteriously quiet over there this evening.

http://www.politics.ie/fianna-fail/36256-ff-td-quits-party-over-medical-card-issue.html

is_that_so

If they had a very small majority we might have seen a vote of no confidence within the next week but they have more than enough to cope with a few "bleeding heart" resignations or defections. Age Action will be outside the Dail next week and that'll give it more fuel.

The Greens will carry on with their "see no evil" approach until they have to be beaten from Govt. and even Finian and the Independents can be counted on for a while longer, until their own pet projects are at risk of being canned or reduced.

What I think is likely to happen is a complete pasting at local and EU elections next year for the Greens and FF. Cowen may not survive that. With worsening finances we can also expect them to come up with a few more imaginative measures that will upset the faithful and the rest of us. I also reckon that well have a new Minister for Finance by the time the next budget arrives. Whatever talents Lenihan has, he doesn't seem to grasp that serious times need serious people.

Think the pressure will be on, this time next year. If they can get into 2010 without having to call an election they may survive but that's a big "if" given how completely clueless and spineless they are showing themselves to be.

Mr.Micro

Nah its just a bit of posturing IMO. Make a few noises and hope the electorate will forget by the next election. The Greens are drunk with power and nothing will make them give it up. They will make a few noises squeak squeak. First time in years poor old FF have to do the dirty to the public as all the surplus has been squandered and who do they pick on the old people. An own goal that will come back to haunt them I will bet. Clueless.

JJJJNR

I have to say that took some amount balls to do that. He's just shown he IS made of something and not afraid to make a stand.

Well done.

Lil' Smiler

Resignation letter....



http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1017/behanj.html

A Thaoisigh,


It is with regret that I tender my resignation as a member of the Fianna Fáil Party today.

I have served the public as a Fianna Fáil public representative continuously since 1985 and I considered it a great honour to be selected as a Fianna Fáil Dáil candidate in 2006 and elected as a Fianna Fáil T.D. in 2007.

Since my election as a T.D., I have supported the party in every Dáil vote and voted for the various financial resolutions arising from this week's Budget. My vote today in support of the Bank Guarantee Scheme will be my final vote as a Fianna Fáil T.D.

I am appalled at the Government's decision to end the principle of universality of medical card provision for people over 70 yrs of age. I am equally appalled at indications from Government Ministers that the principle of universality of provision of other payments eg, Child Benefit is also under threat.

I regret very much that members of the Parliamentary Party were not consulted in any way in relation to this year's Budget. It is clear that the views of backbench T.D.'s are not taken seriously regarding this and other issues.

I understand the need for party discipline and I have supported the Government line on a number of issues pertaining to my constituency, against my better judgement. They include the Labour Party Private Members Motion on the need for an independent investigation into the tragic deaths of two firemen from Bray and the need for a full time fire service in Nth.Wicklow and the Fine Gael Private Members Motion regarding the provision of A.B.A. Schools for children with autism. I have yesterday defended the indefensible refusal yet again by the Government to fund the construction of the Rathnew to Arklow section of the N 11 which has seen many tragic and fatal accidents in recent years.

I have now regrettably come to the conclusion that enough is enough. I see a number of proposals arising from this week's Budget and Departmental Spending Programmes which will result in pain and distress being inflicted on the most elderly in our society and in the case of increased pupil teacher ratios in our schools - a worsening of the standard of education our pupils will receive. Put simply, the youngest and the oldest in our society are being asked to pay the price for the present financial and budgetary situation.

This is unacceptable to me but I sincerely believe it is also unacceptable to the vast majority of members and public representatives in Fianna Fáil. It is clear to me that you as Taoiseach and your Cabinet colleagues made choices in the Budget which have resulted in deep concern and upset throughout the nation. Regrettably, many fine Fianna Fáil public representatives, locally and nationally, will be asked to pay the electoral price for your choices.

In coming to my decision, I was particularly conscious of the attempt by the Tánaiste yesterday to warn Parliamentary Party members not to criticise publicly Budget measures in your absence as it would be judged as "disrespectful" to you. I found that warning to be insulting in the extreme. However, mindful of the fact that you are travelling to China next week I wanted to ensure you received this letter today.

I intend to adopt an independent stance on each and every issue which comes before the Dáil from now on. I confirm to you today that I will oppose with every fibre of my being the Government decision to withdraw medical cards from people over 70 yrs. I will also oppose the proposal by the Department of Education to increase class sizes. Regarding all other issues - where I believe the public interest is being served, I will support the Government, where I believe the public interest is not being served, I will oppose.

On a personal level I have enormous respect for your integrity, ability and patriotism. I know you have a heavy burden on your shoulders and my action today does not lighten that burden. But I believe that the first duty of any person is to be true to themselves and hence my decision today.

I wish you well.

Mise le meas,

Joe Behan T.D.

irish_bob

let me ask a question , do people want across the board (regardless of wealth status ) access to a medical card for the over seventies , surely it is immoral let alone a huge waste of tax payers money to be funding a former judge or hospital consultants monthly check up with his or her GP

help me out here , are you asking for the income threshold to be raised or the status quo to remain in place , all i hear is hysteria

jhegarty

irish_bob wrote: »

let me ask a question , do people want across the board (regardless of wealth status ) access to a medical card for the over seventies , surely it is immoral let alone a huge waste of tax payers money to be funding a former judge or hospital consultants monthly check up with his or her GP

help me out here , are you asking for the income threshold to be raised or the status quo to remain in place , all i hear is hysteria

if the limit cutting off people like that I don't think there would be uproar , but they are cutting off people who worked all their lives, paid high taxes and put away a very small pension....


Well done Joe, good to see a politician with a backbone...

Lil' Smiler

irish_bob wrote: »

let me ask a question , do people want across the board (regardless of wealth status ) access to a medical card for the over seventies , surely it is immoral let alone a huge waste of tax payers money to be funding a former judge or hospital consultants monthly check up with his or her GP

help me out here , are you asking for the income threshold to be raised or the status quo to remain in place , all i hear is hysteria

Well, I know for my family, that the case is that both my mums mother and father are in a nursing home with bad alzheimers and vascular dimensia respectively. They think they have enough money to pay for nursing home fees etc for both of them for maybe the next 3 years. They're lucky that they kept up their parents VHI whereas alot of people once they go into nursing homes, their families end it and rely on the free care from the medical card.
My Nana suffers from MRSA in her eyes and is on constant anti biotics (expensive) and has constant visits from the dr, chiropodist and eye specialist...so what happens when they money runs out and they have no medical card..

I think it is fair for the over 70's to be entitled to a medical card. I think Joe Behan is right in what he is said that the budget has been unfortunate for the young and the elderly.

I don't like that the elderly are going to be means tested, my Grandad worked all of his life, would never have abused the system at all or anything like that, was a hero of a man to me and now when he needs the help, it's being taken away from him.

I don't know where i stand on the issue of the wealth status of people, I always find this difficult as I have a real itch about people abusing the system (getting pregnant to get a house, lying to get college fees etc). I do see the whole point of "why should we pay for the wealthy's health care when they can pay for themselves"..but again going back to Joe Behan's opinion that the state is meant to look after the elderly etc I agree with that..

Keano

irish bob your point has some merit as in why should wealthy over 70's get one but they have given service to this country and have obviously worked hard to be in a wealthy position so they should be rewarded.

I had never heard of Joe Behan before today but I admire his stance and his honesty of supporting his party even when he wanted to vote no.

Crash

And yet that same point when trotted out in opposition to the idea of higher taxes for the wealthy is derided and ignored. Simple fact, like pretty much everything in this country, is that an effective means testing is fair. I think its wrong to dismiss the idea of removing universal social welfare projects as ageist, or opposing the young or the old. If someone has a sufficient pension and other income to be able to support themselves medically, then they should. There is bloody murder on here whenever a story comes up about someone above certain pay thresholds taking advantages of tax breaks etc., and yet the moment said person turns 70 we're supposed to throw the righteous indignation out on its ear?

Now, I do stress, I state an effective means tested system. I would like to see figures as to the potential number of people disenfranchised, potential cost etc. before making any overall decision as to whether I support this or not, but to simply cry for universal coverage is lunacy.

is_that_so

It's not the introduction/abolition per se as how it has been handled. Like all measures of this kind they should be available to those who need them. From no information to two changes in three days does not suggest any type of joined-up thinking or planning in addressing it.

All it has done is generate confusion, a lot of heat and potentially a lot of trouble for this government.

Incidentally loss of medical card will also expose over 70's to the Health levy of 2%. Combine that with the across the board income levy irrespective of income then it comes across as cruel and no more than bean counting. The cost of the system is also due to the higher fees charged by doctors to be part of the scheme.

podge79

the problem is that only up until very recently people paid crippling levels of tax in this country - its only in the last 15-20 years that tax levels have actually gone down to the low levels we pay now in income tax. add in the interest rates people were paying on mortgages back in the days of 17-18% and that people wouldnt have had alot to put away into a private pension and that in the past people were told dont worry state will take care of you and you can see why alot of people actual rely on the state for so many benefits. for flip sake if cuba can provide quality healthcare for its entire population I cant see why this country cant do the same for its citizens whatever age they are or whatever status they have. but what do we do squander it on a leaky tunnel under dublin bay and a tram system that doesnt link up and a proposed underground metro dublin flipping airport.

jmayo

All of this problem is becuase FF decided in 2001 that they would get votes by allowing EVERYBODY over 70 have a free medical card.
Then it turns out that for some reason it costs a lot more to run those cards than normal ones and it is only now that they are bothering to ask the IMO about this ?

There is no way in hell that the likes of Charlie Haughey, Gay Byrne or Michael Smurfit or that dodgy judge in Kerry should ever have a free medical card.
Saying they worked hard all their life is boll**. So did a lot of people and they didn't get paid half as much and in the case of a lot of people it wasn't taxpayers money.

But then the government comes along in Budget 2008 and decides they will remove this and bring in a means test that is way too dragconian.
Now they hmm and haw and are upping the means test limits and finally asking IMO why is costs so much more to run :rolleyes:

Meanwhile nobody seems to be focussing on the fact government has set up subprime business to bailout developers, sorry I mean fact governmnet are offering mortgages to FTB buyers who can't get a loan from a financial institution in order for them to buy newly built properties :rolleyes:

Then becuase a TD resigns from the party we have people lauding him as some sort of saint.
All right he has some principles but I bet we will find he was also defending bertie baffler and the schenanigans going on over the last few years even if he wasn't an actual TD an only a councillor.
Did he just grow a backbone over the last few days.
He seems to find the raising of class sizes was wrong.
Obviously he had no problems with the way schools were being bankrupted with the likes of water charges or kids were being taught in leaky rat invested prefabs up till now :rolleyes:

Edit: whoever compared him to that DICK Roche did do Behan a great diservice

DublinWriter

jmayo wrote: »

All of this problem is becuase FF Charlie McCreevy decided in 2001 that they would get votes by allowing EVERYBODY over 70 have a free medical card.

Fixed it for you.

jmayo wrote: »

There is no way in hell that the likes of Charlie Haughey, Gay Byrne or Michael Smurfit or that dodgy judge in Kerry should ever have a free medical card.

Yeah - and I can see them queuing up in the likes of Beaumont A&E for attention! You really think that taking away the medical card from this class of person will make up €100m?

jmayo wrote: »

Saying they worked hard all their life is boll**. So did a lot of people and they didn't get paid half as much and in the case of a lot of people it wasn't taxpayers money.

So you're saying we should punish the successful in an era when they were taxed 80%? Obviously in Communist Ireland, Heath System is healed by you!

Feck that, let them run the banks if they could harvest that kind of nest-egg! They must be financial geniuses.

jmayo

podge79 wrote: »

the problem is that only up until very recently people paid crippling levels of tax in this country - its only in the last 15-20 years that tax levels have actually gone down to the low levels we pay now in income tax. add in the interest rates people were paying on mortgages back in the days of 17-18% and that people wouldnt have had alot to put away into a private pension and that in the past people were told dont worry state will take care of you and you can see why alot of people actual rely on the state for so many benefits. for flip sake if cuba can provide quality healthcare for its entire population I cant see why this country cant do the same for its citizens whatever age they are or whatever status they have. but what do we do squander it on a leaky tunnel under dublin bay and a tram system that doesnt link up and a proposed underground metro dublin flipping airport.

I think some of the high tax excuses were used already when people were caught with offshore bank accounts and non resident bank accounts :rolleyes:
People were paying high interest rates to banks not to the government coffers, it was not for the good of the country. But that is a whole different argument.

carlovian

just saw cowan on the news when he threw in the issue of the extraordinarily high rates they're paying the doctors for the over-70s medical cards. Like who agreed these rates?

jhegarty

Going Forward wrote: »

Now, I do stress, I state an effective means tested system. I would like to see figures as to the potential number of people disenfranchised, potential cost etc. before making any overall decision as to whether I support this or not, but to simply cry for universal coverage is lunacy.

The figure they have picked is anyone living on more than 12495 euro a year

podge79

jmayo wrote: »

I think some of the high tax excuses were used already when people were caught with offshore bank accounts and non resident bank accounts :rolleyes:
People were paying high interest rates to banks not to the government coffers, it was not for the good of the country. But that is a whole different argument.

alot of ordinary people who are now pensioners paid the high taxes and didnt have off shore accounts. I know people were paying the high interest rates to the banks.. what I was trying to say was as a result of all these different outgoings people who are now pensioners had little money to be putting away for retirement

jmayo

You must be FF if you are starting to be selctive in blaming Charlie McGrevey,
Lenihan is trying to blame the current medical card clawback mess on Mary Harney and you are blaming the orginal handout on Charlie McGrevey.
And I thougth they were always cabinet decisions, or at least they were when they were good decisions :rolleyes:

DublinWriter wrote: »

So you're saying we should punish the successful in an era when they were taxed 80%? Obviously in Communist Ireland, Heath System is healed by you!

Feck that, let them run the banks if they could harvest that kind of nest-egg! They must be financial geniuses.

So are you saying the rich should not pay tax because they work hard for their money ? That sounds very US republican and we see where there health care is.
What was the lowest rate of tax during that period ?

These were the excuses offered why people siphoned money off into non resident accounts, or offshore.
Taxes were too high and why should we pay those rates.
Except some people, primarily the PAYE sector, didn't have that chance or choice and they had to carry the can for your hardworking non paying types.

Now these Denis Foleys etc should have access to free medical card just like the guy down the road that did work hard for his measly pension and never had enough money to invest in an ansdbacher account :rolleyes:

jmayo

podge79 wrote: »

alot of ordinary people who are now pensioners paid the high taxes and didnt have off shore accounts. I know people were paying the high interest rates to the banks.. what I was trying to say was as a result of all these different outgoings people who are now pensioners had little money to be putting away for retirement

Fair enough some people are not well off and that is why there should be a fair means test and not the one they have specified.
But to say that everyone is entitled to a free medical card was wrong ever since it was introduced in 2001.
Some guy over in afterhours said his dad who gets 750 a week is worried about losing his and he has wife needing nursing home care costing 1200 a week.
Personally I think they should not be linked as the nrusing home care is another issue that should be looked at becuase it is a disgrace.
But someone on pension of that amount is earning more than person on average industrial wage and they can't get a card.

Hotblack Desiato

mike65 wrote: »

Jim McDaid is waivering

Should've been expelled over the drink-driving thing, tbh.

dresden8

ninja900 wrote: »

Should've been expelled over the drink-driving thing, tbh.

You have to remember though that a lot of bogger TD's were calling it disgraceful the 19 year old boggers weren't allowed drive home drunk at 2 in the morning and wanted an exemption from the laws.

Sure, they'd lose a small percentage killed, but the pubs had to be kept going.

jmayo

dresden8 wrote: »

You have to remember though that a lot of bogger TD's were calling it disgraceful the 19 year old boggers weren't allowed drive home drunk at 2 in the morning and wanted an exemption from the laws.

Sure, they'd lose a small percentage killed, but the pubs had to be kept going.

Dresden if you going to show your disdain for anybody that lives outside your cosmopolitan area as in referring to us all as boggers at least have the coutresy to get the story right.
Some TDs, funny enough including those with publican interests, want the drink drive laws lenient on not the young but rather the OLD, since the pub was their only social environment.
They would prefer to see 75 year old guy crawling home with 5 pints on him than 19 year flying home with 15 pints.
Personally i think both are dangerous but a few TDS didn't think so
Sure hadn't Jimmy down the road had been driving home like that for well on 40 years now.
Oh and just to add to your story a certain green wanted lenient driving tests for old people since they only used the car to get to shops and church
Besides they didn't drive fast i.e. anywhere near the speed limit or dangerously :rolleyes:

Peared

For all those saying that rich older people should not have medical cards..

A card only costs the state money if it is used.

Can you really see the judges and gaybo waiting months for an appointment or staying in a public ward?

No way, those who can afford it will go private regardless.

dresden8

jmayo wrote: »

Dresden if you going to show your disdain for anybody that lives outside your cosmopolitan area as in referring to us all as boggers at least have the coutresy to get the story right.
Some TDs, funny enough including those with publican interests, want the drink drive laws lenient on not the young but rather the OLD, since the pub was their only social environment.
They would prefer to see 75 year old guy crawling home with 5 pints on him than 19 year flying home with 15 pints.
Personally i think both are dangerous but a few TDS didn't think so
Sure hadn't Jimmy down the road had been driving home like that for well on 40 years now.
Oh and just to add to your story a certain green wanted lenient driving tests for old people since they only used the car to get to shops and church
Besides they didn't drive fast i.e. anywhere near the speed limit or dangerously :rolleyes:

J, don't be so defensive, bogger is a term of affection. Some of my best friends are boggers, as I tell them to their faces. They call me a fat northside kn@cker b@stard. All in fun.

I'm well aware they took up the case of the 75 year old farmer, but with no checkpoints or enforcement the 19 year old drunken speed demons would have been in the clear as well. Of course now when the 75 year old farmer crashes his tractor he won't be able to afford his medicine. Or will there be a special dispensation for 75 year old tractor drivers to get the medical card?

But they are examples of how special interests dominate and even plainly ridiculous examples like this are free to be aired, and given credence on national t.v., even if ultimately they may come to nothing.

yermanoffthetv

Back to the medical cards...To be honest I think this whole medical card debacle is just another FF smokescreen to cover the hike in taxes. I mean, everything has gone up ciggs, fuel, motor tax, income tax ect. John Gormley will have us all using rickshaws if this keeps going (Im beginning to see them in Galway :eek:) I hope people are finally begining to realise that they squandered the prosperity we had. Its 2008 and we STILL dont even have a proper transport network :rolleyes:

ninty9er

Peared wrote: »

For all those saying that rich older people should not have medical cards..

A card only costs the state money if it is used.

Not true. A doctor gets an annual payment for each medical card patient they have registered regardless of whether they attend 100 times a year or none.


Personally, I think the policy isn't a bad one, but the limits at which it is proposed to apply is a bit ridiculous. It should be somewhere around €750 for a married couple.

For the people ranting about "these honest decent hardworking people who built the Ireland we have today", what about the working class family with a mortgage, no payment of €230.30 a week from the government, no fuel allowance, and paying 20% tax plus a 1% income levy. Why should they be denied a medical card with a smaller disposable income.

Heartache my arse, the limit is the only problem here. Means testing is a non-issue, and anyone who proposes otherwise needs their head examined. Why would a pensioner need an income of over €50,000? They can't secure a mortgage, and that's the largest single income drain on an individual.

is_that_so

ninty9er wrote: »

Not true. A doctor gets an annual payment for each medical card patient they have registered regardless of whether they attend 100 times a year or none.


Personally, I think the policy isn't a bad one, but the limits at which it is proposed to apply is a bit ridiculous. It should be somewhere around €750 for a married couple.

For the people ranting about "these honest decent hardworking people who built the Ireland we have today", what about the working class family with a mortgage, no payment of €230.30 a week from the government, no fuel allowance, and paying 20% tax plus a 1% income levy. Why should they be denied a medical card with a smaller disposable income.

Heartache my arse, the limit is the only problem here. Means testing is a non-issue, and anyone who proposes otherwise needs their head examined. Why would a pensioner need an income of over €50,000? They can't secure a mortgage, and that's the largest single income drain on an individual.

http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=14339

As a result of this, GPs who have been treating patients who have reached the age of 70 since 2001 and have automatically entered the medical card scheme are currently paid over €630 per annum for treating these patients.

However, the maximium fee GPs can receive for patients who were over 70 and had medical cards prior to 2001 is only around €240.

They've made an absolute mess of this with the daily changes and mutterings of renegotiations and the free for all finger-pointing. So far all that is clear is the over 70s medical card, which incidentally should never have been handed out freely by FF in the first place, is being taken away. You can argue that they are just fixing a previous error but seeing as we haven't even got to the education cuts nor any of the inevitable cuts over the next year they have been utterly abysmal to date. Strikes me they have no idea what they are doing, where they are going or where it will all end.

nhughes100

I think the government is teetering on the brink of collapse. Two FFr's are gone, Finian McGrath and Jackie Healy Rae look like they won't vote for it. The Greens had a crisis meeting yesterday when they realised that they really should have read the fine print of the budget. All we need is a few TD's to get sick and a few of them on business abroad as there are next week and we could have some fun on our hands.

Surely there's a happy compromise between a retired judge's pension and someone who scrapes over the state pension. We're constantly told health care is on the basis of need, and if you get sick, really sick then all the pensions in the world may not be of any use to you. If anything should be means tested it's that 1100 quid a year anyone with a child under 5 and a half gets.

A sliding scale mean test is most appropriate here and for childrens allowance, say a combined income of 60K gets full allowance and every 10K after the allowance decrements accordingly. I'm suree the government could do something like that for medical cards as well. But the health(or lack thereof) of the person HAS to be taken into account.

turgon

jmayo wrote: »

Then becuase a TD resigns from the party we have people lauding him as some sort of saint.

With respect, whether or not Bertie Ahern took millions from Builders will have no direct effect on the people, whereas this will. Equating the two so simply is not really appropriate I think.

Blanchguy

Do you really believe that the money taken by our leaders has no effect on us? Our govenrment is now backing sub prime mortgages to try and dig multi billionaire builders out of their difficulties. Every commercial property in the country is worth 3% more since the budget, Brian and Brian looked after the super wealthy before they even looked after their own voters. Irish people get the government they deserve.

brianthebard

nhughes100 wrote: »

I think the government is teetering on the brink of collapse. Two FFr's are gone, Finian McGrath and Jackie Healy Rae look like they won't vote for it. The Greens had a crisis meeting yesterday when they realised that they really should have read the fine print of the budget. All we need is a few TD's to get sick and a few of them on business abroad as there are next week and we could have some fun on our hands.

McGrath and Rae will hold out until they are offered something they want for their constituency and then **** the rest of the country in the ass. Just because the FF have left the party doesn't necessarily mean they'll vote against it. This will be a test to see if the Greens are a real party any more or if they are just there to make up voting numbers as I've always said. Cowan won't let anyone be on business next week! The Dail will be full, don't worry.

Darragh29

If things are that bad, why are there no public protests??? With the medical card issue, how come on 50 people have protested publically over this to date???

is_that_so

Darragh29 wrote: »

If things are that bad, why are there no public protests??? With the medical card issue, how come on 50 people have protested publicly over this to date???

Well you have to remember the demographics here. Less likely to see them on protest marches. Age Action are planning a protest on Wed outside the Dail. The current bankbench revolt is effectively the protest for now.

Firefly Fan

For everyone, there is their own separate point (straw that broke the camels back) which they say "Enough, I cannot no longer stand by what is happening".
I think Joe reached that point, for him.
While some might not agree with him, I applaud his courage in breaking away from the herd whom (some) want to stay, not rock the boat and hang on to their now well paid and perked life style.
Joe now in political terms will be out in the cold as an independent. I'm sure it was not an easy decision but he had reached his breaking point.

If only more would finally stand up and be as actionable when and if they find the courage!

is_that_so

Pat Rabbitte, Alan Shatter and Brian Lenihan will be on The Week in Politics tonight at 11.05

jmayo

dresden8 wrote: »

J, don't be so defensive, bogger is a term of affection. Some of my best friends are boggers, as I tell them to their faces. They call me a fat northside kn@cker b@stard. All in fun.

I'm well aware they took up the case of the 75 year old farmer, but with no checkpoints or enforcement the 19 year old drunken speed demons would have been in the clear as well. Of course now when the 75 year old farmer crashes his tractor he won't be able to afford his medicine. Or will there be a special dispensation for 75 year old tractor drivers to get the medical card?

But they are examples of how special interests dominate and even plainly ridiculous examples like this are free to be aired, and given credence on national t.v., even if ultimately they may come to nothing.

Jeeze if you told me you were from the northside :-)
I know the idea of having different drink drive laws and different driving tests for people based on age is a joke.
Publicans do have a huge amount of pull, just look at fact the price of pint wasn't increased in budget.
It is usually one of the first things to be increased.
Instead they increased wine, which people would mainly drink at home or in restaurant.
Funny that isn't it.

PS I used to always think that some ould fellow driving tractor after a few was not so bad, until I met guy driving big tractor while 3 sheets to the window. It frightened the living hell out of me. PS he was old or young, he was in between - 40ish.

jmayo

ninty9er wrote: »

Not true. A doctor gets an annual payment for each medical card patient they have registered regardless of whether they attend 100 times a year or none.

Personally, I think the policy isn't a bad one, but the limits at which it is proposed to apply is a bit ridiculous. It should be somewhere around €750 for a married couple.

For the people ranting about "these honest decent hardworking people who built the Ireland we have today", what about the working class family with a mortgage, no payment of €230.30 a week from the government, no fuel allowance, and paying 20% tax plus a 1% income levy. Why should they be denied a medical card with a smaller disposable income.

Heartache my arse, the limit is the only problem here. Means testing is a non-issue, and anyone who proposes otherwise needs their head examined. Why would a pensioner need an income of over €50,000? They can't secure a mortgage, and that's the largest single income drain on an individual.

Jeeze shoot me now I actually agree to an extent with nintyer for once.
Did your granny clip you round the ear and knock some sense into after all ;-)

There should never have been a free medical card for all over 70s inn the first place, but the way the government went about taking it back was going to hit a lot of people who were basically scraping by.
Some people have stated that the rich would not be using public hospital services so it was costing nothing but would these epeople use it to get cheap medication and use at their local GP to save a few quid.
The reason some of these people got rich was they didn't like spending money in the first place.

turgon wrote: »

With respect, whether or not Bertie Ahern took millions from Builders will have no direct effect on the people, whereas this will. Equating the two so simply is not really appropriate I think.

Ah you see turgon that is where you are wrong.
Because certain politicans (no proof bertie baffeler ever did any of this) affectively took bribes allowing huge housing estates to be built with no concerns for the people who would be living there.
This has a huge direct affect on people for generations !

Gandalf23

is_that_so wrote: »

Pat Rabbitte, Alan Shatter and Brian Lenihan will be on The Week in Politics tonight at 11.05

Anyone see this? Any fireworks?

genericgoon

nhughes100 wrote: »

A sliding scale mean test is most appropriate here and for childrens allowance, say a combined income of 60K gets full allowance and every 10K after the allowance decrements accordingly. I'm suree the government could do something like that for medical cards as well. But the health(or lack thereof) of the person HAS to be taken into account.

It would probably be harder to have a sliding scale for something like the medical card scheme compared to Child allowance since it isn't a regular payment. However a scale of something like Full Medical Card>Free GP visits + Half Cost Medicines>Free GP visits>Half GP visits>Nothing. The current 3 strata system probably doesn't have enough wiggle room.

Also, the health of the individual is already taken into consideration when you are applying for the Medical card. If however you are suggesting it becomes a much more integral part of the means testing then that would be a meritorious idea.

corkfella

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Anyone see this? Any fireworks?

ya it was interesting, rabbitte spoke well, shatter doesnt come across well at all, he is very laboured with his points. lenihan was under pressure all through but he has been given some poisened chalice by the biffo. at the way the government is performing they may be in trouble sooner rather than later, they have lost touch with the people and are starting to lose their confidence.

is_that_so

Plenty of fun on Q&A (much better than last night ) and looks like education is about to wreak as much havoc in FF as the medical cards. The Budget is an unravelling sweater as someone on radio said today.

O'Dea: "I was in a class of 40"
Man in audience : "Well it did nothing for you."

Meanwhile Gilmore threatening vote on education cuts. Great ding dong between him and O'Dea. Part 2 coming up.

jhegarty

is_that_so wrote: »

Plenty of fun on Q&A (much better than last night ) and looks like education is about to wreak as much havoc in FF as the medical cards. The Budget is an unravelling sweater as someone on radio said today.

O'Dea: "I was in a class of 40"
Man in audience : "Well it did nothing for you."

Meanwhile Gilmore threatening vote on education cuts. Great ding dong between him and O'Dea. Part 2 coming up.

watching with popcorn.... he really is getting beaten around the studio....


I don't give this government a week (unless they back down)