If your family cat goes missing you can blame your wheely bin.

Run_to_da_hills

I wrote a letter into the Irish Times about ten years ago regarding the potential problem Dublin and other towns and cities would face if they introduced the wheelybin. The matter was ridiculed by so called wild life experts when I suggested that people should remove the lid from their new bin or leave an alternative source of food out for foxes.

Ever since the introduction of these bins foxes are struggling to get food which was once sourced in open bins and refuse sacks. Now there is a price being paid. Domestic cats are disappearing, in some cases remains have been found in gardens. Last July three cats disappeared from a neighborhood in Ennis in one week one belonging to a friend of mine, foxes were spotted in the area around the same time.

If people don't leave an alternative sourse of food for these creatures or flip the lid on their bin open more cats will disappear. I brought this topic up last summer in the nature & bird watching forum. I also believe cats should have bells on their collers to warn birds.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml?xml=/global/2005/02/06/nfox06.xml

http://news.scotsman.com/foxes/Family-cat-dies-after-savaging.2457850.jp

bigpinkelephant

Sorry, what?

You want people to start feeding foxes, or to leave their wheelie bins open so the can feed from them, and to stop them eating cats?

Have you back-up, e.g. research papers to show that closed wheelie bins lead to foxes eating cats, or do you know better than what you refer to as "so called wildlife experts"???

The Sweeper

Or would you just keep your cats as either indoor-only cats, or an indoor-outdoor mix that's either outdoors in an enclosed run, or outdoors for just a few hours during the day and never at night?

If the urban fox can't take the top off a wheelie bin, I doubt he'll manage the back door handle.

Run_to_da_hills

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

Or would you just keep your cats as either indoor-only cats, or an indoor-outdoor mix that's either outdoors in an enclosed run, or outdoors for just a few hours during the day and never at night?

If the urban fox can't take the top off a wheelie bin, I doubt he'll manage the back door handle.

My ex kept her cat indoors for several weeks until she discovered about 10 shi*ts wedged in behind the TV after it refused to use the litter. Never again :eek:

The Sweeper

Maybe your ex didn't realise that you need to clean cat litter out regularly, and train and reward your cat for using its litter if it's having a problem with that.

Run_to_da_hills

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

Maybe your ex didn't realise that you need to clean cat litter out regularly, and train and reward your cat for using its litter if it's having a problem with that.

The kitty was spoiled rotten without having to rewarding it, the litter tray was cleaned regularly, I split up with the missus a year before she got it, I wouldn't have tolerated a cat in the house to begin with.

The Sweeper

You're great. Sorry, I don't see the point of this thread. Unless you want us to feed foxes? If you won't tolerate a cat in the house, I can only assume you don't particularly like cats, so why do you care if they get eaten by foxes?

Morganna

i have never heard of a healthy cat being eaten by a fox.A fox likes an easy meal and would you tackle a cat all claws and teeth.Maybe sick cats get taken but never healthy ones.I have foxes here and badgers and never lost a cat to either the only time i had a cat killed was by a car .Also city town foxes will be living on take aways that people throw around on nights out.

Run_to_da_hills

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

You're great. Sorry, I don't see the point of this thread. Unless you want us to feed foxes? If you won't tolerate a cat in the house, I can only assume you don't particularly like cats, so why do you care if they get eaten by foxes?

I didn't tolerate that particular cat because it was not house trained, it also had the full run of the place unsupervised jumping up on the kitchen table licking the butter etc. I have had cats before that I had no problems with in the house.

Morganna wrote: »

i have never heard of a healthy cat being eaten by a fox.A fox likes an easy meal and would you tackle a cat all claws and teeth.Maybe sick cats get taken but never healthy ones.I have foxes here and badgers and never lost a cat to either the only time i had a cat killed was by a car .Also city town foxes will be living on take aways that people throw around on nights out.

Im sure "fat cats" are an easy picking for foxes, there are plenty of them in Dublin.

Jokes aside could you explain those two press articles? (And many more on line)

My ex's cat was a very small breed, It was long haired and looked much bigger when dry, if it was left out in the rain it could have easily been mistaken for a kitten.

GigaByte

Six foxes couldn't take on 1 cat!! :pac: Strange how both articles written 2 years apart talk about the same one cat clover?


Check out this cat and fox.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=7xjjSUA4AGU&feature=related

Actually there's a lot of clips of cats chasing foxes but I couldn't find any of a fox chasing a cat??

GigaByte

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

jokes aside could you explain those two press articles? (And many more on line)

From the first link.

Stephen Harris wrote:

Stephen Harris, a professor of environmental science at Bristol University, said, however, that increasing fox attacks on domestic cats was an "urban myth".
"I have studied the behaviour of urban foxes for more than 35 years and have yet to see one attack a cat," he said. "Foxes are solitary by nature, so anybody claiming to have seen a pack of foxes attacking their cat is simply talking rubbish."

bigpinkelephant

OP, you really don't seem to understand nature.
Foxes are WILD ANIMALS (not a "breed of dog" as you have stated in the past) that should NOT be fed or tamed by humans.
You cannot babysit wild animals, natural selection must be allowed to take its course. If we follow your idea we are going to have a lot of stupid fat foxes that don't know how to hunt properly. That's what has domestic purebred dogs in the mess they are in. Humans are doing Mother Nature's job and as a result, animals that would not survive 10 minutes in the wild are passing on their bad genes.

(If anyone wants some background to this post, the OP recently had a thread about how he wanted to keep a fox as a pet, and bring it for walks)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055311384

Run_to_da_hills

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

.
You cannot babysit wild animals, natural selection must be allowed to take its course. If we follow your idea we are going to have a lot of stupid fat foxes that don't know how to hunt properly.

Rooting in a bin is a natural source off food for urban foxes,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J3c8Q9UhPE

bigpinkelephant

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Rooting in a bin is a natural source off food for urban foxes,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J3c8Q9UhPE

No, rooting in a bin is not a natural source of food. What's natural to a fox about leftover takeaways and last week's mouldy sliced pan?
You need to stop using newspapers as your sources for "knowledge".
When I am dying of SARS and bird flu, then I will believe what a newspaper says about science.

Run_to_da_hills

GigaByte wrote: »

Originally Posted by Stephen Harris
Stephen Harris, a professor of environmental science at Bristol University, said, however, that increasing fox attacks on domestic cats was an "urban myth".
"I have studied the behaviour of urban foxes for more than 35 years and have yet to see one attack a cat," he said. "Foxes are solitary by nature, so anybody claiming to have seen a pack of foxes attacking their cat is simply talking rubbish.".

Wheely Bins have not been around 35 Years :rolleyes:

GigaByte

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Wheely Bins have not been around 35 Years :rolleyes:

You think he just stoped his research when wheely bins came out. :rolleyes:

It's also a quote from your link. :rolleyes:

and just for the sake of it. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

doctor evil

Here we go again!

kinkstr

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I wrote a letter into the Irish Times about ten years ago regarding the potential problem Dublin and other towns and cities would face if they introduced the wheelybin. The matter was ridiculed by so called wild life experts when I suggested that people should remove the lid from their new bin or leave an alternative source of food out for foxes.

I would of laughed into your face. Foxes are wild animals, you dont feed wild animals. Do you actually think people would leave the lids off their bins so a fox can have a feed and most probably tear the sh1t out of rubbish bags and leave what they dont eat on the ground, or do these urban foxes clean up after themselves to.

Run_to_da_hills

kinkstr wrote: »

I would of laughed into your face. Foxes are wild animals, you dont feed wild animals. Do you actually think people would leave the lids off their bins so a fox can have a feed and most probably tear the sh1t out of rubbish bags and leave what they dont eat on the ground, or do these urban foxes clean up after themselves to.

I also suggested leaving food out for them. There is a good few UTube videos of foxes eating food and scraps that were left out for family pets. The Foxes out in parts of South Dubllin have become increasingly bold and I have regularly seen them in broad daylight.

Interestingly this topic has come up for discussion before.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071222162825AAbxcWZ

Dyr

controversial opinion one: I saw a program on foxes that mentioned the effect of wheelie bins years ago

controversial opinion two: cats shouldnt be confined to houses

Whispered

While I don't agree with the op on feeding wild animals, or on foxes killing cats. I think he raises a pretty valid point about urban foxes. The fact is, natural or not, they feed off our rubbish. As an adaptable, opportunistic animal, when they had no choice but to live in such close proximity to people, they made the best of it. Wheelie bins, to an extent, cut off this source of food so they're forced to come out during the day, scavange in ever more dangerous places.

People are talking about natural selection, I think this is a moot point where urban foxes are concerned, we have been unknowingly feeding them for years now with the normal refuse sacks. Probably cutting out food as having an impace on mortality rates. Taking into consideration foxes kiled by cars etc, I don't think natural selection has such an impact on urban foxes as it might on foxes in a rural environment.

Run_to_da_hills

kinkstr wrote: »

I would of laughed into your face. Foxes are wild animals, you dont feed wild animals.

Birds are also wild "animals" and people have bird tables and leave crumbs out for them particularly in the winter when food is scarce, ducks, swans and pidgeons are also wild and these get fed and pampered in our cities. Why should we discriminate against foxes?

I would hold foxes just as responsible as domestic cats for the dramatic decline of urban song birds in recent years because of their forced change of diet since the introduction of the wheely bin. I also think that Ireland should follow foreign legistation that all domestic cats should have bells attached to their collars.

BlackCat2008

I looked into this a while back for someone else on boards, and spoke to Animal Magic about them, as they are by fare the best wild life rescue in Ireland and one of only a few left in Ireland.

A fox is an opportunist and a scavenger and yes bins were a great source of food for them, the odd take away is simple not enough for them, I leave food for them the same as I would any other wild animal.

They thrived in the cities because rubbish was a great food source for them, along with the fact we are a filthy nation so they always had plenty to eat.

Now they must change their game plan, they will eat any animal that can't put up much of a fight, a fox won't risk being injured or killed, all around the country on golf courses and open greens and woods you will find the corpses of cats, dogs, birds and any other animal they can make an easy meal out off.

We get lots in our area and people (most likely one noisy old hag) had it put in the community news letter not to feed them because they were in coming into there gardens and they though they would attack there cats and dogs which is untrue and the rest of us still feed them I've had dogs for over 20 yrs and cats for over 18yrs here and not one ever caught anything from them nor were they ever attack nor have any ever gone missing, they even get up on my extension.

No they do not eat healthy animals that can fend them of, but the last few years they look really thin and unhealthy since the wheelie bins have arrived so they may take more chances at healthy animals and the only way to stop this is to leave food out for them.

We have already taken their hunting grounds in the wild which is why they are in the cities and now we are forcing them to starve, it's a cruel world for them that humans have destroyed, we owe it to them to help it is our pets that pass on the mange to them along with fleas and ticks not the other way round, we really have taken every thing from them, I've nearly hit 4 foxes in broad day light who just stand in the middle of the road, over the last few months, their that hungry their suicidal.

It's time we gave them a break, and no they do not make great pets either they are nervous creators by nature and find it hard to settle into a life with so much going on around them 24/7.

Sorry for the long rant.

Run_to_da_hills

This videos show us just how a content and well fed fox and cat can get on together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mzRF1k8TzM

lightening

Dublins fox population is extremely healthy now though, wheelie bins or not. They seem to be thriving, plump and healthy with no mange. I see them frequently alongside cats. See my pics in the photo sticky.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57471300&postcount=24

bigpinkelephant

OP, please stop using YouTube as a scientific resource.
You could probably find a video of a flying pig on YouTube if you looked for it.

Run_to_da_hills

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

You could probably find a video of a flying pig on YouTube if you looked for it.

You said it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNa551dR6Rc&feature=related

BlackCat2008

Hate to say it lightening but most foxes far from look that good or would stick around to have a camara flash in their face, if the pictures are for real then I would suspect that fox was hand reared and returns to an owner in the morning for his breakfast.

I'm in the south of Dublin and was privilaged to see three fox cubs last year grow up in my granmothers back yard even though we put out lots o food, worm tablets and a mange treatent even though they didn't have it(it was a just encase) for them it tuck a long time for them to even look have as good as that fox you snapped. Andthey certainly don't look like that around my place either or any were else I've seen them, were did you take the picture ?

lightening

Of course they are for real. I don't have a remote controlled electronic fox. I have come across several foxes in the last few months on Dublins Northside, all in perfect condition, not all as brave as this one, but fairly confident. I caught one in my front garden raiding my bird nuts! He walked away, didn't run, glided over the wall, walked up the road and waited for me to go away. Here he is sitting in the middle of the road. (this was a few years ago)



Here is another one from a couple of nights ago.

GigaByte

lightening wrote: »

Of course they are for real.

FAKE!!

Morganna

i feed the foxes on my land

Jumpy

Guys, as members of the Pet forums, you may not yet have been exposed to run_to_da_hills_cause_the_aliens_are_after_me.


See this ----> .

That dot is about the amount of care you should put into his postings, I personally believe he is a wind-up artist who does it exceptionally well.

BanzaiBk

lightening wrote: »

Pix of fox

Jeez, your electronic fox sure gets around:P

holyshow

My area has no wheelie bins but tons of cats. Point proven.

BlackCat2008

I'm not saying it's not a real fox (but then again I did have to have a second look at barbie dog) strawberry_dog_steps_stairs4 1.jpg and I'm still waiting on the answer B.P.E. ?

If he is not your pet do you recon he is getting hold of the birds on the beach or milling into some seaweed, won't mind getting some of what ever he's eating and giving it to my animals his coat is in great conditon.

I've never none foxes even in captividy pose for the camara ?

It's nice to see one in such good condition.

Zillah

I'm confused. Is the original poster claiming that foxes are hunting, killing and eating domestic cats?

The Sweeper

Yes. He maintains that since the introduction of the wheelie bin, we have cut off a steady food source for the urban fox and that they can and have resorted to hunting the domestic cat instead.

Which is interesting, because the urban bin-bag used to be a steady source of food for the feral cat, and I haven't heard anyone rejoice over a sudden drop in their numbers, through either a lack of food or through being eaten by the urban fox.

Overheal

we had 3 cats in the vicinity of clarecastle, and we frequently saw foxes. maybe it was easier for them to forage out in the rural areas, but our cats never had an issue - outdoors and all. I can see the problem when domestic indoor cats that dont know any better get eaten i suppose.

No offense Hills but that needs to be backed up with research. Surely an urban fox, especially in Ennis, which is surrounded by rural environment, would have no qualms about either expanding his territory or moving on to forage elsewhere. Its like saying we should keep our garbage out for grizzly bears so they wont eat our dogs, when they should be going after deer altogether.

in the end though i have always found that raising your cat to function outdoors and maintain its own territory is very healthy for the cat to do. pure indoor cats tend to become fat and lazy, and god help them if they step outside - they are a free meal to fox or take-away restaurant alike. My moms cat Tiger is the healthiest tabby I have ever seen in my life - sleeps in the garage during the heat of the day and does god knows what the rest of the time, but he's pushing 8 years old with no signs of aging, and florida wildlife (snakes coons' and gators) to contend with. An adorable little God among felines.

bigpinkelephant

BlackCat2008 wrote: »

I'm not saying it's not a real fox (but then again I did have to have a second look at barbie dog) strawberry_dog_steps_stairs4 1.jpg and I'm still waiting on the answer B.P.E. ?

I don't know, but I still think it's cute!

lightening

BlackCat2008 wrote: »

I've never none foxes even in captividy pose for the camara ?

It's nice to see one in such good condition.

Right, I see what you mean. I guess we have a special relationship with our wildlife here in Dublin! Its like an African game safari, the animal is just used to people. There are herons, egrets, brent geese, pied wagtails and a million other species there that you can get very very close to before they take flight. There is a colony of shockingly friendly and playful seals there too, I was out longboarding there last winter and there was a young seal actually surfing the same wave as me, looking up at me.

In Howth some of the older seals (and one blind one) are permanent fixtures in the trawler harbour, people get unwanted fish from the mongers there and feel them. Its like feeding time at the zoo.

Run_to_da_hills

Overheal wrote: »

we had 3 cats in the vicinity of clarecastle, and we frequently saw foxes.

Clarecastle is rat infested so I couldn't see a problem for cats and foxes having a plentiful food supply.

Demonique

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Why should we discriminate against foxes?

Translation: "ZOMG! Racism!" (or foxism if you prefer)

NoNameRanger

Jumpy wrote: »

Guys, as members of the Pet forums, you may not yet have been exposed to run_to_da_hills_cause_the_aliens_are_after_me.


See this ----> .

That dot is about the amount of care you should put into his postings, I personally believe he is a wind-up artist who does it exceptionally well.

So so true. He's obsessed, chooses to believe tabloid papers before the so called wildlife experts/ professionals he refers to.
He's been preaching this wheelie bin thing for quite a while now over on the nature and birdwatching forum. Will somebody please ban this nutter for baiting.

Here are his previous posts on the same topic. The first thread was eventually closed due to his bullsh1t

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055311384&page=6

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055330543

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055397863

bigpinkelephant

NoNameRanger wrote: »

So so true. He's obsessed, chooses to believe tabloid papers before the so called wildlife experts/ professionals he refers to.
He's been preaching this wheelie bin thing for quite a while now over on the nature and birdwatching forum. Will somebody please ban this nutter for baiting.

I saw'd it on teh Interwebz on YouTube so it must be TWUE lolz!!!!!!!!

Next week: Leave your wheelie bins open, or else you will find your cat's head on your front lawn and the local foxes will all come down with anthrax.

BlackCat2008

I can see why they are so healthily now lighting.

Run-to-the-hills if you want to encourage people to feed the foxes you need to ask them to put out the scraps they put in the compost bins as alot more people put them in there then the wheelie bins, I've got my hands full from one end of the year to the other with rescue animals and money is always tight, but I do buy cheap bags of cat food which is better for them than dog food and leave it out for them at night in the local park next to me in a place people can't see them to hurt them, I feed a lot of feral cats so I don't want them in my garden if I can help it, but don't want them to go hungry either.

Some times you have to take a softer approach and educate them in small doses shuffling it down their throats is not a good thing as they will run to the hills to get away from it all. sorry no pon intented.