Overseas Development aid €891m

Cookie_Monster

So the budget is giving €981 m of our tax payers money to oversea charity groups. (Todays Indo)

That is an awful lot of money to just give away considering the budget deficit.

So much for looking after your own first:rolleyes:

Heyes

Grrrr just gets better...........

The government really doesnt appear to have planned this years budget very well at all.

Firstly to increase the cigarettes and drink and even car tax is not a suprise, but to introduce a 1% income levy and to then send 891 million abroad, clearly makes no sense !!!! Why dont they reduce the charity been sent abroad for one year, and even reduce the 1% to 0.5 to make it a little less harsh on those that work hard enough to get some sort of salary be it good or bad...

Turd Ferguson

We're in a recession, I doubt anyone in the country would argue if we just turned around and said "Fuck yous all, we're not giving ANY money to charity for the next few years. Deal with it"

Heyes

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

We're in a recession, I doubt anyone in the country would argue if we just turned around and said "Fuck yous all, we're not giving ANY money to charity for the next few years. Deal with it"

Unfortunately due to the amount of money we have borrowed off Europe it probable wouldnt go down very well.

biko

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/charity-groups-welcome-8364891m-for-overseas-aid-1498924.html

CHARITY groups yesterday welcomed the Government's decision to effectively maintain the amount of money available for overseas aid at the same level provided in last year's Budget.

The total allocation for Overseas Development Assistance (ODA) will be €891m for 2009, a reduction of 0.01pc on the 2008 figure.

The charities said that Ireland was still on track to reach the target of spending 0.7pc of Gross National Product (GNP) on aid by 2012.

The €891m allocated for aid in 2009 amounts to 0.56pc of the estimated GNP next year.

"The Government committed to protecting the poorest people in this Budget and should be commended for sticking to its target on aid spending in light of the country's serious financial difficulties," said Trocaire director Justin Kilcullen.

While acknowledging that this year's Budget was prepared under "extremely difficult domestic and global circumstances", Concern said the latest aid allocation ensured that Ireland remained broadly on track to reach "its solemn commitment" of contributing 0.6 pc of GNP by 2010 and 0.7 pc of GNP by 2012.

Jim Clarken, chief executive of Oxfam Ireland, said that Ireland's commitment is "ever more valuable in the face of the global food and financial crises and ever more real when we ourselves are faced with more difficult economic circumstances".

"We regret that circumstances have meant that it has not been possible for the aid budget to be increased but recognise the Government's commitment to reaching the aid target," he added.

jimmycrackcorm

I can now feel much better by not signing up to donate money to Goal / concern etc.

godtabh

Is it an increase in Overseas Development aid?

Either way it should be reduced to a more sustainable level

Nehaxak

All of that development aid is distributed via Irish Aid and not Trocaire, Oxfam, Concern, et all...
If any of the Irish charities get access to funds from it to use in their own projects overseas, you can bet it's a very very small amount.

Gareth37

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

So the budget is giving €981 m of our tax payers money to oversea charity groups. (Todays Indo)

That is an awful lot of money to just give away considering the budget deficit.

So much for looking after your own first:rolleyes:

In other words they ar egiving €1B to African conmen and tyrants and a few private companies acting as intermediates :rolleyes:

Turd Ferguson

Heyes wrote: »

Unfortunately due to the amount of money we have borrowed off Europe it probable wouldnt go down very well.

So? Most of the other EU countries are up shit creek aswell so they'd understand

Johnny Bitte

Thats that! Cancelling my Concern payment straight away, bloody people can they not see we re starving here and have no water or medicine, Shame on them

AARRRGH

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

So much for looking after your own first:rolleyes:

I think we should be giving the aid. We think we have problems in Ireland, when in reality we have very few problems. I'm sorry, but not being able to afford a flat screen TV or a new car is not a problem!

As humans I believe we have an obligation to help the less fortunate in this world.

What annoys me though is only a small percentage of the aid money actually gets used (the rest goes on fees, wages, corruption, etc.)

Turd Ferguson

AARRRGH wrote: »

I think we should be giving the AIDS

Fixed that for ya

Heyes

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

So? Most of the other EU countries are up shit creek aswell so they'd understand

Ya'd think ! but alas it doesnt work like that.

Gareth37

The_Goose135 wrote: »

Thats that! Cancelling my Concern payment straight away, bloody people can they not see we re starving here and have no water or medicine, Shame on them

Well well well. We have a mug here.

Why do you give money to them, do you actually think it ends up in Africa? And are Africans really that poor or are their corrupt leaders taking the aid?

Burial

that 891 million is guaranteed Irish produce being sold. Therefore, 891 million is pumped back into the economy directly, thus making people richer and able to spend more.

Gareth37

Burial wrote: »

that 891 million is guaranteed Irish produce being sold. Therefore, 891 million is pumped back into the economy directly, thus making people richer and able to spend more.

Thats funny.

Produce my arse, the money goes into people's pockets for drinking and gambling and expensive holidays abroad and big new cars. :pac:

MizzLolly

*explodes*


*vows to never use AH again*


You come across as spoilt, over paid, over fed fcuking twats!



*feels ashamed to be Irish*


<insert generalisation, sensationalism, lies, newpaper clip (coz then it MUST be true), ignorance...etc..etc.. YAWN>

How some of you got past the leaving cert stuns me!

:rolleyes:

Gareth37

MizzLolly wrote: »

*explodes*


*vows to never use AH again*


You come across as spoilt, over paid, over fed fcuking twats!



*feels ashamed to be Irish*


<insert generalisation, sensationalism, lies, newpaper clip (coz then it MUST be true), ignorance...etc..etc.. YAWN>

How some of you got past the leaving cert stuns me!

:rolleyes:

Molly, PM me your credit card details. I will add you to my new charity when I set it up. Thanks very much. Also, are you available to do some voluntary fundraising work for my charity? Thanks

MizzLolly

Gareth37 wrote: »

Molly, PM me your credit card details. I will add you to my new charity when I set it up. Thanks very much. Also, are you available to do some voluntary fundraising work for my charity? Thanks

Not quite. First of all, your intelligence is an issue for me.

Secondly, I don't feel it would be good for my karma to work for someone who thrives on media bulls*it at the expense of other people.

Thirdly, well, I just don't like you.

Sincerely,

MizzLolly.

Nehaxak

Gareth37 wrote: »

Well well well. We have a mug here.

Why do you give money to them, do you actually think it ends up in Africa? And are Africans really that poor or are their corrupt leaders taking the aid?

Quick visit to 3 of the more respected INGO's websites from Ireland gives the following annual reports, go read and see for yourself rather than making silly statements...

Trocaire
https://www.trocaire.org/uploads/pdfs/whatwedo/0708annualreport.pdf

Goal
http://www.goal.ie/FS06%20GOAL%20(Final)%20for%20website.pdf

Concern
http://www.concern.net/about-concern/annual--review/annual-report-2007.php

MizzLolly

Sarcasm and joking aside, I do think we need to step back and actually think about the 'facts' we're putting out there.


Of course people here are feeling under pressure. I do get frustrated with AH posts most of the time but I do understand where these posts come from.

What worries me is that most of you post rubbish that you don't even take the time to research. Granted it is a discussion board and it is AH. Still, I do find the attitude in here to be bloody crazy. Half the time I wonder is it done simply for a reaction.


For the record, I have signed up to a couple of the charities here. I'm more than happy to help them. I don't have much money myself but I did research them before signing up. The ones I stuck with are the ones who provided me with satisfactory answers to each and every question I had.

The information is not hard to come by.

So while I do understand why some of you feel worried, I don't think it's fair to type something, write it off as a fact and not even take a minute to check if what you've typed it correct.

Morlar

Nehaxak wrote: »

Quick visit to 3 of the more respected INGO's websites from Ireland gives the following annual reports, go read and see for yourself rather than making silly statements...

Trocaire
https://www.trocaire.org/uploads/pdfs/whatwedo/0708annualreport.pdf

Just had a quick look at the trocaire one and it didnt mention how much they spend each year on salaries.

Only that in 2007 they gave a 3.25% increase and then another 3.75% in 2008.

There was an article recently about big charities (Think it was the english independent) where they were mentioning 150k+ salaries for the 'higher performers'.

I would be interested to see how much those 3 organisations above spend on payroll for themselves each year.

Also some of their projects are pissing in the wind - trocaire €219,000 pa for Afghanistan for :

Women’s Empowerment
Providing shelter to women who are victims of gender-based violence and advocating for changed attitudes and practices
€219,000.00

That'll work.

MizzLolly

Morlar wrote: »

Just had a quick look at the trocaire one and it didnt mention how much they spend each year on salaries.

Only that in 2007 they gave a 3.25% increase and then another 3.75% in 2008.

There was an article recently about big charities (Think it was the english independent) where they were mentioning 150k+ salaries for the 'higher performers'.

I would be interested to see how much those 3 organisations above spend on payroll for themselves each year.

Also some of their projects are pissing in the wind - trocaire €219,000 pa for Afghanistan for :

Women’s Empowerment
Providing shelter to women who are victims of gender-based violence and advocating for changed attitudes and practices
€219,000.00

That'll work.

From a quick look at the three websites Morlar, the salary costs are printed in at least two of them. Try their websites maybe.


What do people think of charities working in Ireland? Out of matter of interest?!

Morlar

MizzLolly wrote: »

From a quick look at the three websites Morlar, the salary costs are printed in at least two of them. Try their websites maybe.


What do people think of charities working in Ireland? Out of matter of interest?!

That would depend on the charity and where the money goes wouldnt it ? Or should we just sit back and enjoy the glow of our overseas 'tax dollars' at work ?

How would you rate the chances of that 219,000 pa for afghanistan for

'Women’s Empowerment
Providing shelter to women who are victims of gender-based violence and advocating for changed attitudes and practices
€219,000.00'

What would you rate the chances of that one working ? 219k well spent ?

Or maybe we should just endlessly continue to throwing more and more money down the well while keeping those 'higher performers' in that 100k+ bracket with approx 3-4% salary increases year on year ?

Cookie_Monster

MizzLolly wrote: »

What do people think of charities working in Ireland? Out of matter of interest?!

I'd have no problem if that money was being spent in Ireland, do charities here even get that much from the Government?

What about using all that money for something beneficial like the enviroment, plant trees, invest in the future etc rather than just feeding and housing people in the short term?

_blank_

The Health System is a fúcking shambles.

The government are now taxing the lower paid, at source.

And we are still accepting every Tom, Dick and Harry who is looking for "asylum" into the country and giving them free money.

And we are sending damn near a billion fúcking euro to overseas aid.

Get a grip here, the country can't afford that, but the bastards decide to tax the poor.

****.

Another thing.

Thank fúcking christ for black market smokes, that's one anal raping I won't be taking off the Government cúnts this time round.

Nehaxak

I know and I understand the whole thing about salaries but these organisations are classed as International Non Governmental Organisations due to their professional abilities, competant staff levels and both past and present achievments in their fields of expertise and work.
You don't seriously expect people to give up their life to work in these places for nothing ? Working for an NGO is not a 9 to 5 job and can entail significant travel and work overseas in area's under war torn, civil unrest or otherwise insecure locations. Most if not all people who work in NGO's expect some renumeration for their hard work, average wage and enough to get by on, but also on the other hand know and are reserved in the fact that their wages will never (and probably never should) mirror that of the "corporate" sector.

The bulk of the staff in their Irish, UK and US offices are either on or below the average industrial wage with a lot of them on a bare minimum wage. There's only a select few in each organisation that are on what would be considered high wages to some people, especially when compared to the bulk of the rest of their staff.

Cookie_Monster

Nehaxak wrote: »

I know and I understand the whole thing about salaries but these organisations are classed as International Non Governmental Organisations due to their professional abilities, competant staff levels and both past and present achievments in their fields of expertise and work.
You don't seriously expect people to give up their life to work in these places for nothing ? Working for an NGO is not a 9 to 5 job and can entail significant travel and work overseas in area's under war torn, civil unrest or otherwise insecure locations. Most if not all people who work in NGO's expect some renumeration for their hard work, average wage and enough to get by on, but also on the other hand know and are reserved in the fact that their wages will never (and probably never should) mirror that of the "corporate" sector.

The bulk of the staff in their Irish, UK and US offices are either on or below the average industrial wage with a lot of them on a bare minimum wage. There's only a select few in each organisation that are on what would be considered high wages to some people, especially when compared to the bulk of the rest of their staff.

Thats a life choice they've made there. You don't need to pay mega money, just something reasonable

MizzLolly

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'd have no problem if that money was being spent in Ireland, do charities here even get that much from the Government?

What about using all that money for something beneficial like the enviroment, plant trees, invest in the future etc rather than just feeding and housing people in the short term?

Of course. In fact, lots of the larger NGO's that work with over sea aid do get involved with environmental issues. I'm having trouble finding the direct link but I seen it a few mins ago. I'll get back to you with it when I find it.

On the issue of government aid to NGO's, I actually don't know. I'm not sure what the government give to them. In relation to the charities working over seas, the annual reports above should cover it.

In the case of 'housing people in the short term', at least two of the charities mentioned here work in the developmental side too. Again, that's all available from their websites.

Nehaxak seems to know their stuff. The suggestion of it being a 'life choice' is not only completely off the wall but it's also (another) example of a poster, typing before thinking. I don't know people's reason's for getting into this work but from my experience with supporting Irish Charities, I am pretty satisfied with the work they do.

Having said that, I respect that it's not everyone's cuppa tea.



Just to add, all of the info I posted has been found through a little research. Obvioulsy we don't know the ins and outs of how certain charities work. The only reason I took issue with it, was because the info posted was false. I figured that out after two minutes of scaling the net. That's all my point is. To be honest, I don't care what people think about charities, Africa, yore ma etc.. I just freak out when false info is typed anywhere..

It's a pet hate of mine.

Cookie_Monster

MizzLolly wrote: »

The suggestion of it being a 'life choice' is not only completely off the wall but it's also (another) example of a poster, typing before thinking. I don't know people's reason's for getting into this work but from my experience with supporting Irish Charities, I am pretty satisfied with the work they do.

If you work for a charity surely it should be because you want to benefit the world/humanity, not for the money though?

Granted you need a certain amount of money to attract people but even so.

jesus_thats_gre

Heyes wrote: »

Unfortunately due to the amount of money we have borrowed off Europe it probable wouldnt go down very well.

We have borrowed vast amounts of money?

MizzLolly

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

If you work for a charity surely it should be because you want to benefit the world/humanity, not for the money though?

Granted you need a certain amount of money to attract people but even so.

I would imagine so. Again, I don't know. I'm just like you Cookie, I don't know. I would hope that they underlying reason is the desire to help. I do trust that (the one's I've stuck with) are genuinely in it for the right reasons.

seclachi

Des wrote: »

Thank fúcking christ for black market smokes, that's one anal raping I won't be taking off the Government cúnts this time round.

Yea well, maybe the government should tell you to feck off if you ever show up at a hospital with a smoking related illness.

On topic, I am fairly sure ireland has been giving forgien aid, even when the country was not that well off itself, should we really tell them to feck off the second we hit a bit of trouble, its not like we lost all the gains of the past 20 years just because of a recession, The majority are still working and earning the same (dont get me wrong, i really feel for the average joe builder who got fla`d this year) and the standard of living is still far in excess of many years ago.

Maybe we just lost the sense of camaraderie we felt we had with other less well off country's. Or maybe this is AH and is the joe duffy liveline of forums, filled with whining :pac:

Cookie_Monster

seclachi wrote: »

Maybe we just lost the sense of camaraderie we felt we had with other less well off country's. Or maybe this is AH and is the joe duffy liveline of forums, filled with whining :pac:

It cos we got lots of money and are now losing it again.

If we never got it in the first place it'd be a much nicer friendlier place.

biko

The way to give to Africa is by going there and spend it on stuff in person - like hotels, umbrella drinks and sun chairs.

gaz wac

Next time your direct debit comes out, remember this.....

Concern spent almost €13m on staffing costs alone and several of its key staff are on annual salaries in excess of €90,000. Chief Executive Tom Arnold is on a salary of just under €140,000

Are you on even a third of his salary ??

Panda

id like to see a breakdown of that 891 million.

seclachi

gaz wac wrote: »

Next time your direct debit comes out, remember this.....

Concern spent almost €13m on staffing costs alone and several of its key staff are on annual salaries in excess of €90,000. Chief Executive Tom Arnold is on a salary of just under €140,000

Are you on even a third of his salary ??

Well, charities are organisations like any other, and they need leaders with decent experiance. Now imagine if concern said "right we`ll recruit somebody to run the charity for 20k a year". What kind of person would they get. You cant just push a bale of €2 million euro out of the back of a plane over some impoversed country and ensure it gets to who needs it, just as you cant mail it to goverment of the same country, who at best would use it to add another swimming pool to the presidents mansion, and at worse use it to buy another couple of tanks to cause even more trouble. You have to spend some money on administration and on people who`ll get it where its going.

That being said theres nothing stopping a ceo of a charity being some ****ehawk who is worthless, but if hes any good whats stopping him from going to work for another company for the same money, why should he take a big cut just because hes helping a charity, would you ?

senordingdong

Does that 981m include the welfare money being collected by non-residents of Ireland?
Surely that counts as overseas aid?

auerillo

gaz wac wrote: »

Next time your direct debit comes out, remember this.....

Concern spent almost €13m on staffing costs alone and several of its key staff are on annual salaries in excess of €90,000. Chief Executive Tom Arnold is on a salary of just under €140,000

Are you on even a third of his salary ??

I have some experience of AID to Africa. We ( ie the West) have been giving aid to Africa for over 100 years, and the problems in Africa have not been solved. It's telling that the AID agencies don't even employ Africans to dole out AID on the ground, which is invariably done by white westerners driving top of the range white Toyota land Cruisers, usually staying in the most expensive hotel in town. Paul Theroux even says that, in his experience, these are some of the least charitable people who never even give strangers a lift as they zoom from town to town in air conditioned luxury.

Aid, unfortunately, creates a climate of dependency. While its great to lend a hand in emergencies, long term aid is no solution to anything, or so the experience of the last 100 years seems to indicate.

I also have some experience in Ireland of charities. The culture of company cars, expense accounts, high salaries and "fact finding all expense paid trips" etc etc mean I never give money to such organisations.