Greedy Promoters

jonny68

I believe it's high time certain promoters should be named and shamed for charging astronomical entrance fees to clubbers, especially with the country in a dark recession and people out of work(i can testify to that)on the plus side other promoters should be praised for bringing over quality dj's and charging the bare minimum entrance fee (take a bow Subject/Swirl for charging €5 to see Nicky Holloway on the 26th in 4 Dame Lane, respect guys serious value for money.

When you compare the same gigs in the UK we are getting absolutely shafted big time in Ireland and Dublin in particular, im referring to Infected Mushroom, a band id like to see but charging €40 is an absolute rip off when you can see them and many others acts in Birmingham for a lot less, i seriously believe this rip off has to stop, some promoters deserve praise whereas others should be named and shamed,what are people's opinions on this?

electrofilth

You cannot compare ireland to england when it comes to clubbing.

First of all, the insurance venues pay,and in fact any business that has to pay public liability insurance in Ireland, cannot make them compete price-wise with venues across the water.I have not got any figures, but supposedly the insurance industry in the country and the bureaucracy behind it is putting a spanner in the works of any movement in decent prices when it comes to entertainment and hospitality businesses.this is out of the club owners hands.

Secondly, and this applies to the whole touring music industry, it costs a hell of a lot more for a dj to play one or two dates in Ireland than they could in the same amount of time in England. The travel apsect is what I am talking about here. Plus I am sure djs would be paid more to do a one off gig here than they would in England considering the inconvenience of jetting over here and all that.

So either the points above are valid or maybe promoters are genuine rip-off artists or both, but regardless, just because the country is in a recession you cannot expect clubs to charge less than they usually would. Supposedly their sales are down too and they have staff to pay so if anything they would have to hold onto current door prices. Expecting them to be cheaper is like asking your local baker to give you a cheap loaf just because you ended up on the dole,whilst he is struggling all the same

electrofilth

Forgot to add Infected Mushroom are a pile of poo, there is alot better psy-trance out there, these lads just happen to be the "Nirvana" of the scene if you get what I mean

manufan

Totally agree with you Johnny. As someone who began going to dance events in the mid 90's i honestly think that a lot of promoters are out of touch with what clubbers want. Either this or they don't give a toss and are trying to squeeze as much money out of each clubber while cutting corners in terms of the amount of money they are spending on putting on a good night.

Take the Reactive Gig (Jon the dentist) last friday night. I was always a fan of JTDs but he wasn't up to his usual standards the other night. This aside, there was a poor turnout and there was no atmosphere in the place. The venue was dark and dingy.

Its not good enough. The reactive promoters need to get their act together. 20 quid for that excuse of an oldskool night was a joke. Maybe the young clubbers of today don't have the same enthusiasm as i did in my late teens and early 20's but there should be standards and if you pay anything over 20 quid into a club, the setup from DJ line-up, lighting atmosphere etc should be top notch.

Last friday was an example of greed pure and simple and i can list many more examples over the past few years. Its getting harder to find a club night in this town where you look forward to going back every few weeks and HINT HINT, if promoters are putting on ****e at 20, 30 quid a pop then nobodys going to go back or tell people they know to check the next night out. If you put on a good event, word of mouth spreads fast and clubbers will arrive in their droves. Get back to basics.

I went into the Reactive gig with 2 younger mates. I'm 30 and they are both in their early 20's. I wanted to show them a decent oldskool night and they wanted to check one out. I'l be honest, i was embarrassed come the end of the night and apologised for bringing them along at 20 quid a pop for that tripe.

I hope we get a good list a Promoters NAMED & SHAMED so we all know who to avoid in the future. Theres nothing worse than looking forward to a night only to be let down by a poorly organised event and being ripped off for the privilege.

L1011

From experience, its often the venue owners holding the promoters to ransom that causes insane prices... particularly newer/less 'proven' promoters. Bigger ones would have more negotiation room.

Worst I've seen of late was €35 for the Tidy Boys vs. some women masquerading as the Tidy Girls (wasn't the actual "Tidy Girls") in Castlebar. From a proven promoter...

jtsuited

meh, the market will be subject to the usual inherent trends of the market by definition.

Something is worth what people are willing to pay for it. End of story really. If you can't afford to go see your favourite dj etc, it's your tough luck.

Calling someone greedy for wanting to maximise profit is just naive.

I agree this country is a total rip-off but that's because people are willing to be ripped off.

Like I say something is worth what people are willing to pay for. So if X plays in Dublin and it's 45 euro and you think that's way overpriced, don't go. Otherwise you are just proving the price-setter correct in that you are willing to pay the price to see the act.

It's simple economics and the current economic climate is completely irrelevant (so far).

If you think it's an unfair situation then may I be the first to welcome you to a capitalist society, because you must be new here.

jonny68

jtsuited wrote: »

meh, the market will be subject to the usual inherent trends of the market by definition.

Something is worth what people are willing to pay for it. End of story really. If you can't afford to go see your favourite dj etc, it's your tough luck.

Calling someone greedy for wanting to maximise profit is just naive.

I agree this country is a total rip-off but that's because people are willing to be ripped off.

Like I say something is worth what people are willing to pay for. So if X plays in Dublin and it's 45 euro and you think that's way overpriced, don't go. Otherwise you are just proving the price-setter correct in that you are willing to pay the price to see the act.

It's simple economics and the current economic climate is completely irrelevant (so far).

If you think it's an unfair situation then may I be the first to welcome you to a capitalist society, because you must be new here.

I didn't expect you to agree with me anyway, if i said the Pope was a Catholic you'd probably contradict me and say he was an athiest.

I've no intention of going to gigs where greedy promoters charge way over the odds and especially now with the recession i feel many more people will be voting with their feet and staying away from overpriced events, there are still some promoters out there who put on good gigs without ripping the punters off and these people are to be commended,greedy promoters need to be named and shamed then they might change their ways....

jonny68

manufan wrote: »

Totally agree with you Johnny. As someone who began going to dance events in the mid 90's i honestly think that a lot of promoters are out of touch with what clubbers want. Either this or they don't give a toss and are trying to squeeze as much money out of each clubber while cutting corners in terms of the amount of money they are spending on putting on a good night.

Take the Reactive Gig (Jon the dentist) last friday night. I was always a fan of JTDs but he wasn't up to his usual standards the other night. This aside, there was a poor turnout and there was no atmosphere in the place. The venue was dark and dingy.

Its not good enough. The reactive promoters need to get their act together. 20 quid for that excuse of an oldskool night was a joke. Maybe the young clubbers of today don't have the same enthusiasm as i did in my late teens and early 20's but there should be standards and if you pay anything over 20 quid into a club, the setup from DJ line-up, lighting atmosphere etc should be top notch.

Last friday was an example of greed pure and simple and i can list many more examples over the past few years. Its getting harder to find a club night in this town where you look forward to going back every few weeks and HINT HINT, if promoters are putting on ****e at 20, 30 quid a pop then nobodys going to go back or tell people they know to check the next night out. If you put on a good event, word of mouth spreads fast and clubbers will arrive in their droves. Get back to basics.

I went into the Reactive gig with 2 younger mates. I'm 30 and they are both in their early 20's. I wanted to show them a decent oldskool night and they wanted to check one out. I'l be honest, i was embarrassed come the end of the night and apologised for bringing them along at 20 quid a pop for that tripe.

I hope we get a good list a Promoters NAMED & SHAMED so we all know who to avoid in the future. Theres nothing worse than looking forward to a night only to be let down by a poorly organised event and being ripped off for the privilege.

I hear you mate i was there too and very dissapointed overall, €20 in and i expected to hear Old Skool Techno/Trance and instead all i heard was mostly new(ish)cheesy trance and the occasional old skool tune,i wouldn't mind but Jon The Dentist played One of the best ever sets ive heard in the Ormond Multimedia Centre around 96/97 (I don't say that lightly either considering the amount of dj's ive seen in my time) so i thought this was gonna be a top nite but it was was anything but,like yourself i had someone with me (bird) and told her this was an amazing dj but even she said she didn't think he was good, the warm up dj's were far better on the nite, poor crowd as well.

In fairness to Reactive i don't think they usually are that bad although someone from Reactive should come on and have their say about this farce, it's other promoters most notably those bringing Infected Mushroom over and DEAF who are bringing Garnier and Model 500 at over €35 a pop on a bleedin Thursday nite as well whom should be ashamed of themselves, on the plus side as i said promoters like Subject/Swirl should be commended, 2 rooms of music including the legendary Nicky Holloway for a fiver is brilliant.

jtsuited

jonny68 wrote: »

I didn't expect you to agree with me anyway, if i said the Pope was a Catholic you'd probably contradict me and say he was an athiest.

I've no intention of going to gigs where greedy promoters charge way over the odds and especially now with the recession i feel many more people will be voting with their feet and staying away from overpriced events, there are still some promoters out there who put on good gigs without ripping the punters off and these people are to be commended,greedy promoters need to be named and shamed then they might change their ways....

good to see you're not actually going to address anything I said.

my point is that 'naming and shaming' of promoters is silly. If people want to see what prices people are charging, look at the ticket price. If you think it's too high don't go.

I've seen many things ridiculously over-priced in my life. I don't think I should 'name and shame' the businesses.

I'm failing to see the point of this thread.

If you're just ranting about how ripped off we are in this country (which is a valid rant imo), don't blame the greedy promoters, blame the punters willing to pay the price (after all that's what determines the price).

If you're saying that promoters are being unethical in charging high ticket prices, you're living in a dream world. Charging the highest price you can get for something is the essence of a free market.
If you see something wrong with this practice, you should write a strongly worded lettter to everyone who sells anything (as most of them are engaged in this 'unethical' practice).

jonny68

jtsuited wrote: »

good to see you're not actually going to address anything I said.

my point is that 'naming and shaming' of promoters is silly. If people want to see what prices people are charging, look at the ticket price. If you think it's too high don't go.

I've seen many things ridiculously over-priced in my life. I don't think I should 'name and shame' the businesses.

I'm failing to see the point of this thread.

If you're just ranting about how ripped off we are in this country (which is a valid rant imo), don't blame the greedy promoters, blame the punters willing to pay the price (after all that's what determines the price).

If you're saying that promoters are being unethical in charging high ticket prices, you're living in a dream world. Charging the highest price you can get for something is the essence of a free market.
If you see something wrong with this practice, you should write a strongly worded lettter to everyone who sells anything (as most of them are engaged in this 'unethical' practice).

Of course the whole bleedin city is a complete rip off but im not talking about other things, im talking about dance music events which is what this forum is about.

Fcuk this free market rubbish, why is it some promoters can charge the bare minimum and put on quality nites whereas others are just out to make money, that should not be what the scene is about, and if these promoters are getting bad press by getting named and shamed then it wouldn't be long before people start voting with their feet and then they would know all about it when they have quarter full venues, this has happened before and will happen again.

KevIRL

jonny68 wrote: »

DEAF who are bringing Garnier and Model 500 at over €35 a pop on a bleedin Thursday nite as well whom should be ashamed of themselves, on the plus side as i said promoters like Subject/Swirl should be commended, 2 rooms of music including the legendary Nicky Holloway for a fiver is brilliant.

You what?

Sorry Jonny, but DEAF are beyond reproach here as part of your 'crusade'. They are doing and always have done some excellent work in putting on a good festival each year, keeping the line up fresh and innovative. They promote lots of local talent as well as some great credible international acts.

On a point of note the Garnier night is a bank holiday Sunday and is the closing night of the festival. The line up below is a very good price at 35 euro

Laurent Garnier (Fr)

Model 500 feat. Juan Atkins & Mike Banks Live (USA)
Moritz Von Oswald Trio Feat. Moritz Von Oswald (Ger) & Vladislav Delay (Fin) & Max Loderbauer (Ger)
**** Buttons (UK)
Americhord (Irl)
Annie Hall (D1 Spain)
Chequerboard (Irl)
Rollers/Sparkers (Irl)
Legion Of Two (Irl)
Point B (UK)
Chef (UK)
Wobble DJs
D1 Recordings DJs
+ More
Visuals By Mercuryboy & Metaldragon


IF people feel they are being ripped off by promoters charging excess amounts to see overhyped international acts, then vote with your feet and go to one of the many venues showcasing local acts. Very often they are better than the 'names' anyway.

Before 'naming and shaming' it would be a good idea to get the facts right

badboyblast

****s sake lads, the cinema is 30 quid to go to with your missus for a night out, if you can`t afford a poxy 20 Euro then your sad, 15 Euro into any barn dance around Limerick listening to your average Jimmy Disco.

We`ve Slam from Glasgow in one room and a funk and soul group Poets of Rhythm from Germany in another room on the bank holiday weekend for 20 quid...now thats entertainment.

I think all those tidy events and hard house events are based on getting in 17-20 year olds......so thats probably the rip of.

jonny68

Ok sorry i got my dates wrong it's on a Sunday as opposed to a Thursday BUT i still think €35 is scandalous despite the excellent line up, i went to this http://photos-h.l3-t.facebook.com/photos-l3-sf2p/v284/132/115/666216531/n666216531_960247_5585.jpg
in June for £15 and for anyone who knows about House music will tell you these dj's are the Godfathers of House,an incredible line up and amazing nite and serious value for money that's my point, if Back To The Old Pool can get 5 of the originators of House music to play for £15,then i fail to see why other promoters cannot charge similar price, it's pure greed and has to stop.

I'd especially like to see Model 500 but not at that price.

jonny68

badboyblast wrote: »

****s sake lads, the cinema is 30 quid to go to with your missus for a night out, if you can`t afford a poxy 20 Euro then your sad, 15 Euro into any barn dance around Limerick listening to your average Jimmy Disco.

We`ve Slam from Glasgow in one room and a funk and soul group Poets of Rhythm from Germany in another room on the bank holiday weekend for 20 quid...now thats entertainment.

I think all those tidy events and hard house events are based on getting in 17-20 year olds......so thats probably the rip of.

what nite is it your promoting mate?

Subject/Swirl deserve the praise here for charging a fiver for 2 rooms of music in 4 Dame Lane on the bank holiday Sunday with Nicky Holloway headlining, now that is value for money.

jtsuited

jonny68 wrote: »

Fcuk this free market rubbish, why is it some promoters can charge the bare minimum and put on quality nites whereas others are just out to make money, that should not be what the scene is about,

1. Those (you refer to as 'some') promoters who 'can charge the bare minimum and put on quality nights' really isn't a concrete quantifiable statement. As in what's considered 'quality' and what's considered 'the bare minimum'.

2. 'What the scene is about'.
What scene? and who are you to tell it what to be about.
Personally I think a scene should be about music.

Now many artists rely solely on their gigging income to make a living, as illegal downloading hits them hard. So you can only expect artist fees to increase and hence ticket prices will rise also. Blame that on people illegally downloading music (a subject which you got into a huge huff about supporting about 2 weeks ago).

So next time you decide to go on a crusade to name and shame, I suggest you a) learn how capitalism works and b) get your facts straight before needling out any promoter.

manufan

JTsuited, the way i look at it is this ....... Promoters nowadays appear to be in it for the money only. Make as much money as possible and cut as many corners as possible.

Back 10 or 15 years ago, promoters were genuinly interested in putting on a top notch night not just from the point of view of getting a big name DJ but also setting up a good sound, lighting system, smoke machine, dancers and drinks promotions etc. If you paid 10 or 15 quid in you invariably had a great night.

That can't be said for today though. Why should anybody accept paying good money into a club only to find that no money has been put into the event and even less on advertising it. JTsuited, maybe you think that we should just shrug our shoulders and put up with it but i don't agree.

KevIRL

jonny68 wrote: »

Ok sorry i got my dates wrong it's on a Sunday as opposed to a Thursday BUT i still think €35 is scandalous despite the excellent line up, i went to this http://photos-h.l3-t.facebook.com/photos-l3-sf2p/v284/132/115/666216531/n666216531_960247_5585.jpg
in June for £15 and for anyone who knows about House music will tell you these dj's are the Godfathers of House,an incredible line up and amazing nite and serious value for money that's my point, if Back To The Old Pool can get 5 of the originators of House music to play for £15,then i fail to see why other promoters cannot charge similar price, it's pure greed and has to stop.

I'd especially like to see Model 500 but not at that price.

Have you looked at the rest of the DEAF line up?

They have 2 free club nights on Thursday. 2 others that are just a tenner in. On Friday they have a free club night, one for a fiver, 3 for a tenner and one for 20. Both Saturday and Sunday have a range of free club nights, ones for a tenner and each for 20. On Saturday they have an outdoor event where you are encouraged to 'bring your own drink'.

The main event of their festival is €35. This imo is fantastic value for the lineup that it represents. Garnier is top notch, 2 American DJ's in Model 500 and also the international trio with moritz Van Oswald. As has been highlighted previously, costs of putting on Irish events are higher than in the UK, where foreign DJ's will play a few gigs as part of a 'tour' to help lower costs for promoters.

To accuse DEAF of being greedy is just wrong, plain and simple.

Please note I have no affiliation with the DEAF festival, just a lot of respect for what they are doing and have done over the years

jonny68

You must have capitalism on the brain your going on about it so much:eek:

Again i repeat if some promoters can bring over International acts and charge an affordable entrance fee for clubbers then there is no reason as to why others cannot follow suit (nothing to do with bleedin capitalism or "illegaly downloading music")

I am not the only person who is sick of being ripped off by certain promoters, and they need to be named and shamed, so if you wish to pay over the odds to see someone then go right ahead and get and get shafted, because others don't!

jtsuited

manufan wrote: »

JTsuited, the way i look at it is this ....... Promoters nowadays appear to be in it for the money only. Make as much money as possible and cut as many corners as possible.

Back 10 or 15 years ago, promoters were genuinly interested in putting on a top notch night not just from the point of view of getting a big name DJ but also setting up a good sound, lighting system, smoke machine, dancers and drinks promotions etc. If you paid 10 or 15 quid in you invariably had a great night.

That can't be said for today though. Why should anybody accept paying good money into a club only to find that no money has been put into the event and even less on advertising it. JTsuited, maybe you think that we should just shrug our shoulders and put up with it but i don't agree.

I'm not saying shrug your shoulders, I'm saying vote with your feet. Bitching about prices of something is an entirely nonsensical approach to anything.

While 10 or 15 years ago some promoters were genuinely interested in putting on a top notch night, this does not mean all promoters nowadays have decided to focus solely on profit.

If there is a strong enough demand for cheap nights of a certain genre, then surely the people have enough initiative to run one themselves.

I would easily pay over 60 euro to see certain artists. Now the promoter might make an absolute killing on the gig, and the artist too.

But something's value is not determined by it's actual cost to produce (most of the time). It's determined by what people are willing to pay for it. If you have a problem with that system, music events are the least of your worries. Ever wonder why gold is so important in the world even though it has feck all uses?

jonny68

KevIRL wrote: »

Have you looked at the rest of the DEAF line up?

They have 2 free club nights on Thursday. 2 others that are just a tenner in. On Friday they have a free club night, one for a fiver, 3 for a tenner and one for 20. Both Saturday and Sunday have a range of free club nights, ones for a tenner and each for 20. On Saturday they have an outdoor event where you are encouraged to 'bring your own drink'.

The main event of their festival is €35. This imo is fantastic value for the lineup that it represents. Garnier is top notch, 2 American DJ's in Model 500 and also the international trio with moritz Van Oswald. As has been highlighted previously, costs of putting on Irish events are higher than in the UK, where foreign DJ's will play a few gigs as part of a 'tour' to help lower costs for promoters.

To accuse DEAF of being greedy is just wrong, plain and simple.

Please note I have no affiliation with the DEAF festival, just a lot of respect for what they are doing and have done over the years

I respect you views Kev but i still think €35 is scandalous, there is little or no difference in the cost of Irish events and UK ones, International DJ's can just as easily play a few gigs around Ireland as they can in England to maximise their earnings (like many do)

Is this gig on the October bank holiday Sunday as well?Mucho competition that nite...

Lots on with Joey Negro in The Tivoli (€18 isn't bad at all for one of the kings of House music) and Nicky Holloway in 4 Dame Lane (brilliant at a fiver) and Norman Jay another House legend in Crawdaddy (another good value for money gig at €15)

KevIRL

jonny68 wrote: »

I respect you views Kev but i still think €35 is scandalous, there is little or no difference in the cost of Irish events and UK ones, International DJ's can just as easily play a few gigs around Ireland as they can in England to maximise their earnings (like many do)

Is this gig on the October bank holiday Sunday as well?Mucho competition that nite...

Lots on with Joey Negro in The Tivoli (€18 isn't bad at all for one of the kings of House music) and Nicky Holloway in 4 Dame Lane (brilliant at a fiver) and Norman Jay another House legend in Crawdaddy (another good value for money gig at €15)

Joey Negro = 1 DJ, so is Norman Jay. Both of them weighing in at around half the door charge for the DEAF night which contains some massive international names and a whole host of Irish and UK talent so where is the 'value' there? . Nicky Holloway is old hat by now and wouldnt float my boat, so that night wouldnt interest me

Whats really ironic though is that you have labelled the DEAF crew as 'greedy' when they are anything but. Thats a "scandalous" accusation. Even more so when you clearly didnt have full knowledge of the facts before you made the accusation

jtsuited

jonny68 wrote: »

Again i repeat if some promoters can bring over International acts and charge an affordable entrance fee for clubbers then there is no reason as to why others cannot follow suit

What?
So because someone is selling something cheaper but I can still make a bigger profit not dropping my price, I should still drop it?

That's illogical.

Let's say I book Dubfire to play at my night (example only, I am not a promoter). I have a 300 capacity club and I know it's gonna sell-out once the ticket price is kept under 50 euro. What do I charge? I charge 50. Simple really.

Should I check similar nights and try and equal them? Only if I'm not sure that I won't sell out my night.

The reason I mention capitalism is that our market is a capitalist market. Music events run for profit are not going to play by different rules.

If you (and many others) have such a huge problem, run your own nights.

Don't bitch on the internet about how you think other people should run their business.

jonny68

KevIRL wrote: »

Joey Negro = 1 DJ, so is Norman Jay. Both of them weighing in at around half the door charge for the DEAF night which contains some massive international names and a whole host of Irish and UK talent so where is the 'value' there? . Nicky Holloway is old hat by now and wouldnt float my boat, so that night wouldnt interest me

Whats really ironic though is that you have labelled the DEAF crew as 'greedy' when they are anything but. Thats a "scandalous" accusation. Even more so when you clearly didnt have full knowledge of the facts before you made the accusation

Nicky Holloway is anything but "old hat" i would suggest you check up on him before making such a rash assumption, this man is a legend and is going a lot longer than most on the scene today, and is very much still in demand but he has curtailed his gigs to 2 a month to concentrate on other projects.

Joey Negro is not just playing by himself there are supporting DJ's as well and the line up for Barcadi B nite is very good at €15 and access all areas
POD Concerts in association with Bacardi presents

BACARDI B
Venue: POD/Crawdaddy & Lobby Bar
Date: 26th October
Time: 20.00
Tickets: €15
with NORMAN JAY, DROP THE LIME, STEE DOWNES (Live), KORMAC (Live Show), DISCO BRASIL & more

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

jonny68

jtsuited wrote: »

What?
So because someone is selling something cheaper but I can still make a bigger profit not dropping my price, I should still drop it?

That's illogical.

Let's say I book Dubfire to play at my night (example only, I am not a promoter). I have a 300 capacity club and I know it's gonna sell-out once the ticket price is kept under 50 euro. What do I charge? I charge 50. Simple really.

Should I check similar nights and try and equal them? Only if I'm not sure that I won't sell out my night.

The reason I mention capitalism is that our market is a capitalist market. Music events run for profit are not going to play by different rules.

If you (and many others) have such a huge problem, run your own nights.

Don't bitch on the internet about how you think other people should run their business.

My last words on the matter (to you) people like you judging by this post and greedy promoters are everything that's wrong about the dance scene today, it never was and never should be about making loads of money, it should be about putting on quality nites at an affordable price like my mate did in March when he brought the Hoxton Whores over to play in Traffic for a tenner (i was involved in helping promote that nite too)my mate barely broke even after splashing out but you know what he said he didn't care it wasn't about that it was about putting on a good affordable nite for clubbers and that's what it should be all about as opposed to making money....

manufan

I've no problem paying over the odds for a good night out. Infact i'd happily pay it if the promoters put some of that money back into the venue. This is the problem. They don't. They pocket most of it and as soon as you walk into some of these venues you are left feeling dissapointed. I often think that the promoters are having a conversation along the lines of this after the event ...

Mr Promotor : "That was a good night. According to my accountant we increased our gross profit by 6% this month and we have cut expenditure by 10%."

Mr Bar Manager : "Ah, the crowd didn't look too happy. No atmosphere in the place Mr Promoter"

Mr Promotor : "What, the crowd. Sure once we get them in the door who cares what they think. As long as they are in the venue and spending at the bar we are both happy".

Ah, sure theres a couple of half decent nights on the horizon so maybe i'll balance the negativity with some positive feedback when i've been to a night that deserves it.

jtsuited

jonny68 wrote: »

My last words on the matter (to you) people like you judging by this post and greedy promoters are everything that's wrong about the dance scene today, it never was and never should be about making loads of money, it should be about putting on quality nites at an affordable price like my mate did in March when he brought the Hoxton Whores over to play in Traffic for a tenner (i was involved in helping promote that nite too)my mate barely broke even after splashing out but you know what he said he didn't care it wasn't about that it was about putting on a good affordable nite for clubbers and that's what it should be all about as opposed to making money....

wtf?

so because your mate ran a night at barely break even, you think you have the right to publicly slander (or 'name and shame' as you put it) a whole host of organisations for charging a price not everyone can afford?

Recession or not, some people have more money than others. Some people can afford to do things, some can't.
We're not talking food and shelter here, we're talking music events.

If somebody doesn't have enough money to go to a gig, that is their problem. Not mine. Not the promoter's (unless they can't replace that punter with someone else who can afford it and is willing to pay the price).

And anyone who is seeing their life ruined by a weekly expense of 35 euro compared to 20 needs to reassess their financial position. Seriously.

seannash

johnny,you dont understand that people dont share the same view as you as to wh is the best dj around.
nicky holloway isnt exactly on the tip of everyones tongue now is he.dont care what your opinion on him is the general public dont really care.the price to get him to play is significanly less than getting someone like carl cox,pete tong(examples)
this is why some promoters can put on "quality"(i wouldnt bother my hole to go see nicky holloway)nights.how can you compare a laurent garnier gig to that.
also the price to book someone mid week is significantly higher than to do it at the weekend,so these parties that are on on wednesday can afford to charge less because they have less overheads.
honestly man its ****ing ridiculous to blame promoters.if there brining in djs that people want to see then people will continue to go see these djs.theres so many hidden costs t booking a dj.the higher up in quality(well popularity) the higher the set price,the more demands,more luxurious the rider.
again all contributing to driving up the over head so again you cant compare a nicky holloway gig to a better more popular gig.
now heres another point that i know you wont agree with.
as poplular as joey negro is(hes a favourite of mine)he cannot command the same money as the bigroom djs like deadmaus,angello,laidback luke,mark knight,carl cox,sasha etc.
he simply doesnt have enough appeal to merit the price(this is a problem amongst the soulful house producers and dj)he is in a specialist market so to speak.hes popular but hell never play the type of stuff thats just gonna blow the place apart,the heavier edged stuff,the more modern sound.he doesnt deviate away from his style unlike other djs who are constantly changing to the ever changing direction dance music is taking.
ask the regular punter on the street have the heard of him and theyll probably give you a funny look.ask them have they heard of fedde le grand,pete tong,carl cox,sasha,tiesto(these are example,you get my point)
its supply and demand,the bigger the demand for a cetain act the more itll cost to get that act to play your club and thisll go a long way to determining the price

seannash

oh and again your mate bringing over the hoxton whores.if your mate had have lost his arse doing that he wouldnt be so happy to even attempt to throw another.he might have gotten lucky and got a good crowd( i dont know,wasnt there)another night he might not be so lucky.
if the act had to have been twice as big as the hoxton whores do you think he would have kept the price at 10 bob,of course not.he would have figured out that in order t even break even he would need to charge double.now would you begrudge him the right to charge double.
also i think you woul;d agree there are alot more acts out there that would be charging a hell of alot more than hoxton whores.
so lets say your mate decide to book carl cox and he was 3 times as expensive(id honestly think its more than that)
would you expect him to still only charge 10 quid,forcing himself to make a huge loss.
to break even he would have to charge triple the amount right?
now im no maths whiz but id say that would drive the price up to 30 quid just to break even.
now knowing how hard he worked on the night,would you begrudge him making money on the night?

aidan kelly

I would agree with Jonny that there are some greedy promoters out there. For instance, there is one promoter who consistently charges at least 25% more for ticket prices, but I don't get angry about it, I just simply refuse to darken the door (and in these recessionary times, I'd imagine that's what more people will do). I went to see Prins Thomas last Friday night in the Button Factory, which was €15 in, and in my view represented real value for money (as Prins is one of the best DJ's in the world right now, in my view). I do think we pay substantially more for gig prices in this country (but that isn't restricted to gigs, it applies to lots of consumer goods too - even buying a beer in a club is more expensive than most cities). As a consumer, you can either choose to pay these prices, or support promoters who genuinely support the scene and the music and are not out to exploit the consumer, which is why I'd support the likes of Downtownsounds, Nightflight, Onetrackrecords, Bodytonic, etc. If you don't like what a promoter is charging, nobody's forcing you to go.

Where I disagree with Jonny is suggesting that €35 for the DEAF showcase isn't value for money. Last December, Laurent Garnier played Tripod on his own, and the tickets were more expensive than €35. This showcase is spread over three different rooms (Whelans, and upstairs and downstairs in the village), and has a lineup that would make us the envy of most European cities that like techno (Model 500, Garnier, Mike Banks, are all legends, and the other acts are all fantastic too). There may be greedy promoters out there, but D1 are most definitely not one of them, in fact they have single-handedly done more to promote electronic music in this country than most others, and have never been extortionate in their pricing (their price for the UR gig a couple of years ago was also reasonable). I'd be at it this year too, only I'm running the marathon on the bank holiday Monday. I also don't think you are comparing like with like in describing how subject event are charging €5 for Nicky Holloway, I do think that it's great value for money all right, but Nicky Holloway isn't in the same league as Garnier et al.

RaverRo808

Be honest most the oldskool nights I go are bout 20 quid in,and I think thats more then fair,coz it usually covers cost of Djs for the night,and the general upkeep of the night,the entertainment of the punters is the priority not profit,

All those real mainstream gigs are aload of ****,paying fifty quid in the see some overhyped gob****e in some uber-trendy dump(TRIPOD) with aload of student lightweights,no thanks,rather,can up in the living room blaring out the tunes

jonny68

seannash wrote: »

johnny,you dont understand that people dont share the same view as you as to wh is the best dj around.
nicky holloway isnt exactly on the tip of everyones tongue now is he.dont care what your opinion on him is the general public dont really care.the price to get him to play is significanly less than getting someone like carl cox,pete tong(examples)

I never said Nicky Holloway was the best DJ around, nor do i care of he isn't "on the tip of everyones tongues" im not a bandwagon jumper and never have been, i didn't jump on the minimal bandwagon last year when it was big, i didn't jump on the Ricardo Villabalos/Deadmou5 or whoever might be flavour of the month right now with the "cool kids" Nicky Holloway's record speaks for itself and i for one think he is fantastic, funny howm people go around slating him when they know little or nothing about him.

also the price to book someone mid week is significantly higher than to do it at the weekend,so these parties that are on on wednesday can afford to charge less because they have less overheads.

You've just contradicted yourself here mate id read this again:D (what party's midweek are you on about as well)?

now heres another point that i know you wont agree with.
as poplular as joey negro is(hes a favourite of mine)he cannot command the same money as the bigroom djs like deadmaus,angello,laidback luke,mark knight,carl cox,sasha etc.

Certainly i wouldn't imagine Joey Negro would command the same fee as say Carl Cox or Sasha but he certainly would as regards the other dj's you mentioned that is for definite.

he simply doesnt have enough appeal to merit the price(this is a problem amongst the soulful house producers and dj)he is in a specialist market so to speak.hes popular but hell never play the type of stuff thats just gonna blow the place apart,the heavier edged stuff,the more modern sound.he doesnt deviate away from his style unlike other djs who are constantly changing to the ever changing direction dance music is taking.

Right so absolutely everyone is into the "more modern heavier edge stuff" then (whatever that means)funky & soulful house is still imensely popular everywhere,and i don't know if your aware im sure you are the amount of alias Joey Negro uses like Doug Willis,Sunburst Band,etc,etc, more so than anyone else in dance music and each alias he uses has it's own different sound, when i heard him in Ibiza last month he played some harder stuff but mostly his trademark House sound so that blows your comments out of the water, Joey Negro is undoubtely the king of House music and immensely popular throughout the world, to suggest he is in a specialist market is nonsense, look at the amount of alias he uses each one is a different sound too,check out the Z record website.

Getting back on topic, the facts are, there are greedy promoters out there and ones who are not, if a promoter can bring over a top class DJ like Francois K who wouldn't come cheap (forget the promoters name) in the Button Factory a few months back for €15 then why can't others follow suit, forget about supply and demand and all that rubbish,quality is what matters.

jonny68

seannash wrote: »

oh and again your mate bringing over the hoxton whores.if your mate had have lost his arse doing that he wouldnt be so happy to even attempt to throw another.he might have gotten lucky and got a good crowd( i dont know,wasnt there)another night he might not be so lucky.
if the act had to have been twice as big as the hoxton whores do you think he would have kept the price at 10 bob,of course not.he would have figured out that in order t even break even he would need to charge double.now would you begrudge him the right to charge double.
also i think you woul;d agree there are alot more acts out there that would be charging a hell of alot more than hoxton whores.
so lets say your mate decide to book carl cox and he was 3 times as expensive(id honestly think its more than that)
would you expect him to still only charge 10 quid,forcing himself to make a huge loss.
to break even he would have to charge triple the amount right?
now im no maths whiz but id say that would drive the price up to 30 quid just to break even.
now knowing how hard he worked on the night,would you begrudge him making money on the night?

I forgot to add my mate did actually lose money before bringing Altern-8 over (same nite as the the Daft Punk concert in Marlay Park a few years back)but that didn't stop him from bringng over other acts, i suppose some people are not just into the scene to make money are just in it for the love of the scene although unfortunately today there are not many.

electrofilth

jonny68 can you not accept that other people have a different opinion than yours?

I have never even heard of any of the house artists you keep banging on about, you cannot compare nicky holloway for a 5 to an allstar line-up of actual legends that DEAF are putting on in whelans for 35 euro. This is common sense, and if you cannot see the reality in this, you are at a complete loss.


Years ago I used to promote hardcore punk gigs and guaranteed i was in it for the love, it had nothing to do with money. got little in return, yet i did it for the love.However, never once did I contemplate naming and shaming bigger venues who overcharged for bigger bands. I can barely understand your point in doing this, even considering my background, you would think I would be more sympathetic. You should be proud of what your friend did and if anything your whole philosophy should drive the two of you to put on as many good nights as you can, instead of getting thick about other promoters.


Say you did name and shame a certain promoter or venue, what do you expect to happen then? Do you really think they will lower prices? Or even pay any heed to you? Are you going to stand outside with a placard protesting?

What you could of done instead of pointlessly venting your anger on an internet forum,is redirect that anger and write to or contact the promoters directly.Back when I promoted gigs for the love of the "scene", I was upset that our local newspaper didnt cover any hardcore punk gigs in the entertainment section hence I emailed the editor.Now, they still cover gigs weekly,much to the confusion of the general public

You are wasting your obvious passion and energy for your "scene" by arguing with people here, which is worse because you are arguing about differing opinions, which will never have any outcome but more misdirected rage.

Scubadevils

I've no idea about current gigs really or what they cost to promote, but I certainly agree that what DEAF are doing over the bank holiday represents excellent value. The line-up is brilliant for the closing night, Model 500 alone are worth the entry fee. Got my tickets today!

seannash

yep your right i contradicted myself(it was late and i had pulled an all nighter the night before )
what it should have said was its cheaper to book midweek(im sure you figured that out for yourself)
you seem to think that i have a hatred for funky house.i actually quite like it.i have a couple of thousand vinyl to prove this.in fact the only certain gig i was catching in miami this year was the mn2s party and made a point of catching joey negros set.he wasnt that good that night(not slating just stating:D)jamie lewis stole the show.
i just dont think hes commanding money like angello,luke,justice,deadmaus,d ramirez.
i know for a fact laidback luke for a saturday night wants 5 grand and midweek angello want 4.5,this is dollars mind(weve tried booking him)coupled that with his flight,hotel etc and youve got your door price escalating.
you never answered the question of if your mate booked someone who cost more would you give out when he raised the door price?
ive thrown alot of parties and dealt with alot of djs and believe me it was all for the love,we never made a penny. we once flew out a dj from ireland. 30 people showed up,disaster.we(me and another fella)lost 6 grand that night but the next month we still had a party to throw.
honestly the most we ever made profit was 200 each.but the door price was always determined by the guest dj.there was no way we could charge the same from one guy to the next.
as for my point of joey negro not playing the main room stuff(yes im aware of his guises)if you look at the beatport charts thatll be a good indication of whats popular at the moment and right now its tech house,minimal and electrohouse(despite whats people personal tastes are).
its not a bandwagon thing its just people get bored when a certain type of music is so in there face for so long that they look for a different variation on it.i have no doubt in my mind that soulful will make a return to the top spot at some stage but for now its those 3 styles that are dominating(for funky soulful house check out random soul,wicked producers and nice blokes to boot )
but i think electrofilth said it best,what would a name and shame actually result in only to make you look like a bitter oldschooler(not meant to be offensive)

FLYNN-DOG

Iposted something similiar the other day under the heading "Fabric London". I think the artists have a write to command what they like, but look at Ibiza - the DJs are charging 10 g's a night which in turn, forces the bars to charge a tenner for a water. The more they demand, the more the clubbers will suffer. Angello - €4500! I reluctantly went to see him and his cheese mafia in Pacha- such muck, he didnt have headphones on all night, we were convinced they had a CD playing! (dont t2me about Axwell- spent the night blaring a foghorn???) Blame the greedy DJ's (esp. the ones with limited talent!) not the promoters!

Executive Steve

Jonny - you may complain about expensive nights out as soon as you learn to spell them.

senan s

hello everyone, I'm 1 of 3 involved in reactive, and for those who think we(promotors are making a fortune) are utterly wrong, if we were making a fortune, then why do we loose a couple of 100 euro each gig. there are only a select few who actually make a fortune, in this business.

the biggest cost factor are the venue and the DJ/artist for us, as well of travel costs, hotels etc etc

we booked Jon The Dentist to play a classic old skool gig, and he didn't(but we only discovered this half way thru his set), thats the only reson we booked him, as he wanted to play of mix of new and old, we told him, we weren't bothered getting him unless it was classic dentist set


we could get the same irish djs repeating them every 4 months, with one or 2 of them playing the same set at each gig, but we want to do something a little different,

but your dammed if you do & dammed if you don't

manfan you think we make a packet, but i wish we did, i wouldn't have to worry, how, i'd pay for the shopping, mortgage, insurance, petrol, school clothes/books

i struggle to make ends meet,

we are certainly not in it for the money and never have been.


we have a big line up in feb( a very rare asylum double debut which hasn't been seen since 1994)

a huge international act in March

g5fd6ow0hseima

electrofilth wrote: »

Forgot to add Infected Mushroom are a pile of poo, there is alot better psy-trance out there, these lads just happen to be the "Nirvana" of the scene if you get what I mean

Simon Posford pisses all over them

electrofilth

looks like the OP swallowed what they've said.

manufan

Senan, i don't have a problem with promoters making a few quid. Its the quality of the night overall thats important but the reactive gig was dead the other night. Maybe the younger generation aren't bothered but its definately hard to find a good dance event where people are talking about going back the next week or a few weeks after. Maybe thats why there is a lot of nostalgia on the forums, the oldskool nights of today are not on a par with the nights from 10 years ago and one of the reasons is that promoters are not putting the money into developing a night over the longterm and it shows in some of the places i've been to in the last few years.

Riesen_Meal

DEAF expensive?

My ar$e!

35 quid for Model 500 & Garnier etc throughout Whelans and the Village on a Bank hollyer Sunday? Yeah, right! The difference with that and a night in the likes of Tripod or something is value, theres about 16 acts on the bill, thats less that 2 quid an act! If it was Tripod theyd probably charge at least 50 a head!

Me and a couple of others are doin an alternative party for DEAF on the Saturday 25th in the Globe and its free in, all day and night, and its on in all the big dj bars around Dublin, not just the Globe.....

Yo Mamma

badboyblast wrote: »

We`ve Slam from Glasgow in one room and a funk and soul group Poets of Rhythm from Germany in another room on the bank holiday weekend for 20 quid...now thats entertainment.

U have Slam playing here ?? Where will that be ?? 20 sheets for Slam is a give away....

electrofilth

manufan wrote: »

Senan, i don't have a problem with promoters making a few quid. Its the quality of the night overall thats important but the reactive gig was dead the other night. Maybe the younger generation aren't bothered but its definately hard to find a good dance event where people are talking about going back the next week or a few weeks after. Maybe thats why there is a lot of nostalgia on the forums, the oldskool nights of today are not on a par with the nights from 10 years ago and one of the reasons is that promoters are not putting the money into developing a night over the longterm and it shows in some of the places i've been to in the last few years.

i think its the crowd too that are effecting the quality of a night. thats something no one has any control over. the last club i remember that had a great vibe in it was Switch in temple bar around 1999-2000. it was a kip but the crowd was great and atmosphere in there was savage, even if the dj wasn't up to much.

and you are right, nostalgia plays a huge part in it. Nothing will ever effect you the same way it did, as the first time or few years you were into it.

i think the same way of heavy metal.it never sounded as good or gigs were never as good in my early twenties as they were as a teenager.nothing to do with quality, its just them first few hits will never be the same.

so quality control aside, maybe you are helplessly chasing the old buzz that will never come back?

senan s

manufan wrote: »

Senan, i don't have a problem with promoters making a few quid. Its the quality of the night overall thats important but the reactive gig was dead the other night. Maybe the younger generation aren't bothered but its definately hard to find a good dance event where people are talking about going back the next week or a few weeks after. Maybe thats why there is a lot of nostalgia on the forums, the oldskool nights of today are not on a par with the nights from 10 years ago and one of the reasons is that promoters are not putting the money into developing a night over the longterm and it shows in some of the places i've been to in the last few years.

well you seem to be contradicting yourself, saying now that you don't have a problem with promotors making money, then on a previous page, "Promoters nowadays appear to be in it for the money only. Make as much money as possible and cut as many corners as possible"

we can all keep harping on about the scene years ago, but face facts the scene will never be like that again. alot of places didn't need to be advertised years ago, people just went, no matter what was on.

if the promotors had the money, they'd put it back in it

out of 22 reactive gigs we have had 3 bad gigs, JTD being one of them.

I'd love to see you run a night and for you see what hard work is involved. I don't know many promotors who don't brake there bollox running gigs. its not only 1 night, its has taken us 1 year to secure a deal with an international DJ we have in march '09, hours upon hours of hounding tbh. but that is for 1 month, there's 11 other gigs we have each year.

oldboy

I'm jumping in on this thread, long time reader of this forum but never posted.

As a loving clubbing fan in his early 30's who's been partying in Dublin for too long....

€35 euro for the lineup for the DEAF closing party is not a rip off in any sense of the word. Doors open 8pm for a start on top of the huge amount of DJ's.

There were kids paying €70 outside Deadmou5 on Friday in Tripod to get in and see him, i couldnt believe it.

D1 have been nothing but great over the years, and the amount of free **** deaf has put on tops any other promoter.

While Johnny has a point, DEAF and D1 are not examples he can use. No way !!!!

c_o_ck p_i_ss chillage

oldboy wrote: »

D1 have been nothing but great over the years, and the amount of free **** deaf has put on tops any other promoter. DEAF and D1 are not examples he can use. No way !!!!

DEAF and D1 are beyond reproach in my eyes.

Paul Chillage

jonny68

Perhaps im being too harsh on DEAF as ive just noticed they are putting on a free event in the Globe all day Saturday which is to be commended, il try stop by for a pint as well.

jonny68

c_o_ck p_i_ss chillage wrote: »

DEAF and D1 are beyond reproach in my eyes.

Paul Chillage

http://www.myspace.com/thechillageidiots

By the way some of the tunage on your Myspace is quite decent.

Scubadevils

jonny68 wrote: »

http://www.myspace.com/thechillageidiots

By the way some of the tunage on your Myspace is quite decent.

Thanks for pointing that out Jonny, excellent stuff Chillage dudes!!! Loving the tunes on your myspace. Interesting profile too, I remember buying a pair of Cox Creepers in DV8 - black leather with red suede Very funky!

Also interested to read you interviewed Pete Namlook... what do you make of his recent collaborations with Move D? - I love the relatively recent 'Raumland' CD's. Haven't bought any more though yet.

c_o_ck p_i_ss chillage

Felixdhc wrote: »

Thanks for pointing that out Jonny, excellent stuff Chillage dudes!!! Loving the tunes on your myspace. Interesting profile too, I remember buying a pair of Cox Creepers in DV8 - black leather with red suede Very funky!

Also interested to read you interviewed Pete Namlook... what do you make of his recent collaborations with Move D? - I love the relatively recent 'Raumland' CD's. Haven't bought any more though yet.

Jaysus, I remember those shoes! They were't cheap either - between about 40-60 irish punts!!! I used to provide a lot of the music in that store - if it was electronic - I played it. As it says on the profile - early house, orbital, aphex, 808 state, meat beat manifesto, warp records, depeche mode etc etc
Liam Dollard and Billy Scurry used to drop into the shop and give us tapes they'd made from Sides aswell and Billy used to dj every Saturday in the GPO arcade in a shop called "The Gap" (no connection to the USA one) and we had a smallish shop upstairs but the one I worked in mostly was in Crown Alley (where Difontaines is now)

Yeah, we did a Fax Records Special in February 2000 and had a really fascinating interview with Pete Namlook. We'd been long tme fans and felt that the label didn't get enough exposure here. It still doesn't and goes largely ignored even though the back catalogue boasts some of the finest collaborations and singular releases in electronic music history, in my opinion of course.
As far as "Raumland" goes, well I don't think Pete or Move D have put out a dud yet. It's the usual blissful, emotive, dark electronics from the two of them.
Glad to see there's another Fax fan out there.
Btw have you checked out some of our recent shows on the myspace blog?
P