Lets Talk Racing...

cson

Its been mentioned in Rynners thread that the forum is currently in the graveyard awaiting burial. All the factors for it being quite etc taken into consideration, why don't those who actually use it and have an interest in racing (not making a quick euro with tip threads) talk about it?

To start it off; I think Crack Away Jack is looking very good for the Champion Hurdle at the minute. Fantastic performance on Saturday and he could be a very good thing for the Emma Lavelle yard. Must point out I'm sorta biased here as I'm friendly with the jock, Jack Doyle.

Secondly, have to laugh at the people who wrote Ruby off in the jockey threads, a 4 timer at Chepstow and a treble in Limerick today. Could be very profitable to follow him this winter.

Colonel Sanders

I haven't been on much but thats due to forums and blogs now being blocked in work :rolleyes:

Anyhow good to see the proper racing starting in earnest again.

I have only one ante post cheltenham bet and that is Sizing Europe. I think if he hadn't gone wrong in last year's champion he'd have won it pretty handy. I think connections feel there is some unfinished business and have kept him over hurdles to put things right. Took some 12/1 a while back. Looking forward to his reappearance at Punchestown next month but won't see him in the flesh as I'll be in Cheltenham

Noel Meade looks to have another hugely impressive horse on his hands too. Pandorama followed up his Fairyhouse win with a hugely impressive win at Naas. Task was made a bit easier by the 2nd fav being all but pulled up but reading the Betfair forum connections seem to think an awful lot of this fella. Seems to be taking the Aran Concerto route and is going over hurdles sooner rather than later.

Btw where are the likes of mdwexford etc these days?

Cantoris

You find a lot of forums fall asleep during the Summer. If there are interesting topics to discuss then they will stimulate discussion.

A few big items out there:

- what will happen Horse Racing Funding on Tuesday
- which trainers will go out of business now that the good years are gone
- will Paul nicholls dominate some of the big irish races after his success in the munster national

These are just a few topics that might bring some discussion.

00dyel

backed 5 of 6 of Ruby walsh winners, 12-1 i missed though- dam.

Crack away jack did look good, as did Finger on the Pulse today.

cson

Cantoris wrote: »

- what will happen Horse Racing Funding on Tuesday

Very interested in this myself.

Imo, the bottom will fall out of Irish Racing if the Government pull the plug on the funding. You'll find prize money free-falling to English levels for bread and butter racing, think 3k-4k as top prize whereas its a minimum of ~6.5k at the moment usually. This will put a lot of owners out of the game and as a result a few trainers too.

On the plus side, there are bound to be a few bargains to be found in the sales now that you don't have to compete with builders et al

Bluetonic

Cantoris wrote: »

- will Paul nicholls dominate some of the big irish races after his success in the munster national

Well he's already made it clear he wants to win the champion trainer in Ireland. He's already leading it and he's only fielded four horses, with two winners, obviously only targeting big races.

Surely if he has a few big wins over the Christmas cards and at the Punchestown festival it's very achievable. 1.4m+ euro should see him win, he stands at 200k already.

How do people think Barry Geraghty will get with Nicky Henderson? Will he be able to combine a UK & Ireland role as well as Ruby does?

Shan75

Nice one cson.I agree Crack Away Jack was very impressive on Saturday but it's pretty early to be talking about Champion Hurdles.

Interesting to see what Paul Nicholls is trying to do--become champ trainer both sides of the Irish Sea in the same year.Not sure if this has been achieved before.I know it has in the flat alright most recently by AOB.He has so many horses there are probably not enough races in GB for him anyway.

That horse today that won the Munster National was only having his seasonal reappearance so will probably improve a bit as he looked to be getting tired towards the end.He will still be fairly weighted to pick up another big handicap I'd say.

I know the NH season is yet to start properly but there is already a dark cloud which is the injury to the mighty Denman.This is a horse I was really looking forward to after his exploits last year.I think he's the best longer distance chaser I've seen.Reminds me of See More Business but with a whole lot more class.Unfortunately it appears we won't see him until the Aon.Can he win the Gold Cup with only one Prep run? I expect he can as long as his recovery goes well.
There is still much to look forward to though.It will be interesting to see what shape War of Attrition is in if he runs on Thursday.

Bluetonic

Shan75 wrote: »

I know the NH season is yet to start properly but there is already a dark cloud which is the injury to the mighty Denman.This is a horse I was really looking forward to after his exploits last year.I think he's the best longer distance chaser I've seen.Reminds me of See More Business but with a whole lot more class.Unfortunately it appears we won't see him until the Aon.Can he win the Gold Cup with only one Prep run? I expect he can as long as his recovery goes well.

I wouldn't imagine they are too concerned. The operation he had went well and don't forget he is almost certain to go for the Grand National too as there is bonus money involved in it and Harry Finflay wants to run him.

Speaking of the Grand National it's now included in a revamped betfair million.

3: Finishing first, second or third in the Betfair Chase at Haydock in November; and

2: Being placed first or second in ANY race at the Cheltenham Festival in March; and

1: Winning the Grand National at Aintree in April

Frazzled

Nicholls has a legitimate chance of taking the Irish title if he goes after this in a serious manner. He is probably weak in the hurdling division and horses such as Pierre Luniare (or something like that) looks like he would be suited to the races at Kempton, Wincanton and maybe Aintree before the turn of the year. Celestial Halo could possibly go for the Hattons Grace but I would be surprised if he did.

However there are some very nice races for his chasers before Christmas.

Dear Villez or something of that ilk could go for the Troytown.
Breedsbreeze could go for something like the Drinmore, but he has a host of other chasers that could be ready at this stage. Not sure whether he will send one of his "A Team" over though?
Races such as the John Durkan, Clonmel Oil Chase, Paddy Power Dial a Bet, Fortria Chase are all capable of going the way of Manor Farm, with horses such as Twist Magic, Big Bucks, Takeroc and a few others, well up to the standard set by the current crop of Irish chasers.

Should be an interesting few months.

Bluetonic

When would you say the first stories will start to appear the begrudgery of him leading the trainers championship and not taking it seriously? Sounds familiar

Frazzled

Bluetonic wrote: »

I wouldn't imagine they are too concerned. The operation he had went well and don't forget he is almost certain to go for the Grand National too as there is bonus money involved in it and Harry Finflay wants to run him.

Speaking of the Grand National it's now included in a revamped betfair million.

Bluetonic wrote: »

When would you say the first stories will start to appear the begrudgery of him leading the trainers championship and not taking it seriously? Sounds familiar

I think this has already started an will gather steam as the season progresses. The excellent prize money issue in Irish jump racing along with HRI funding in the budget could also be an issue if it is perceived that a lot of our prized will be destined for export this year!

Morgans

And having Nicholls best horses coming over to Ireland for the best races, wouldnt boost attendances?

Think its great myself.

Frazzled

Morgans wrote: »

And having Nicholls best horses coming over to Ireland for the best races, wouldnt boost attendances?

Think its great myself.

I have no problem with it whatsoever and look forward to seeing these horses in action, as I only see them at the 3 Cheltenham meetings that I attend each year.

They may also be good betting mediums.

Bluetonic

Morgans wrote: »

And having Nicholls best horses coming over to Ireland for the best races, wouldnt boost attendances?

Think its great myself.

Agreed, it's great. There was a great buzz in Leopardstown last December when Denman came into the parade ring, and that was obviously before he'd won the GC.

I wonder will other British trainers/owners start to take note.

Shan75

I agree it will be great to see him target some of the bigger Irish races.It will make these races more competitive and therefore more enjoyable.Of course there is then the Ireland v England friendly rivalry which is also a nice sideshow(In some cases of course it's almost the main show).


Bluetonic wrote:

I wouldn't imagine they are too concerned. The operation he had went well and don't forget he is almost certain to go for the Grand National too as there is bonus money involved in it and Harry Finflay wants to run him.

Nice one.I hadn't heard the op was done.Very interesting if he goes for the National.Would there be many horses in the handicap proper I wonder if he goes for it.I guess he is officially rated about 180 which would mean only horses rated 154 and above would be in the handicap unless they made him carry more that 11-10---ouch.It would be a great sight to see him jumping those fences and hopefully winning.

Shan75

Punchestown tomorrow at 16:45

---

The return of War of Attrition.Also Kicking King and Watson Lake declared.Two Gold Cup winners can't be bad.Interesting race especially to see if WOA comes back with his old ability.It looks as if KK is not half the horse he was.

Shan75

Impressive display from War of Attrition.Hopefully it means he can go on and challenge for some of the big races this season.

Colonel Sanders

Shan75 wrote: »

Impressive display from War of Attrition.Hopefully it means he can go on and challenge for some of the big races this season.

Good performance and hopefully he doesn't end up bouncing

A mate told me about a radio interview he heard Davy Russell do the day before the race. Was very confident WOA was still a very good horse. He was also very bullish about another Gigginstown horse trained by Tom Taffe. Shouldertoshoulder. P2P winner who was second in a leopardstown maiden hurdle on stephens day last year

mdwexford

I think Crack Away Jack is a cracking lay for the Champion Hurdle as things stand.

It could be a pretty strong renewal this year if Binocular and Jered progress as well as i think they will and if Katchit, Osana, Sizing Europe and Sublimity all turn up fit and well. He has a ton to find and to be pretty much joint fav on Betfair as i type (8.4) is ludicris in my book. Hes beaten nothing of note and Binocular smashed him at Ascot the only time he met a Grade 1 horse.

Celestial Halo could be interesting at a big price because although he looks like he might need further a strong pace in the Champion Hurdle and the track suiting him down to the ground as big pluses for him.

Tranquil Sea and Noland are two that have impressed me so far and seeing as Noland is pretty much certain to go for the Ryanair and others at the head of the market have other alternatives i think hes value at 7.4 already.

ibanez777vbk

Bluetonic wrote: »

Agreed, it's great. There was a great buzz in Leopardstown last December when Denman came into the parade ring, and that was obviously before he'd won the GC.

I wonder will other British trainers/owners start to take note.

rumour has it denman will run in the national.not sure thats a good idea would probs carry 11-10 mark way to high

Colonel Sanders

mdwexford wrote: »

I think Crack Away Jack is a cracking lay for the Champion Hurdle as things stand.

It could be a pretty strong renewal this year if Binocular and Jered progress as well as i think they will and if Katchit, Osana, Sizing Europe and Sublimity all turn up fit and well. He has a ton to find and to be pretty much joint fav on Betfair as i type (8.4) is ludicris in my book. Hes beaten nothing of note and Binocular smashed him at Ascot the only time he met a Grade 1 horse.

Celestial Halo could be interesting at a big price because although he looks like he might need further a strong pace in the Champion Hurdle and the track suiting him down to the ground as big pluses for him.

The Champion Hurdle market is very messy at the mo.

I can't have about 9 of the first dozen in the market as they have an awful lot to prove stepping up from novice class to take on the big boys.

Binocular looked an absolute class act last year. Him, sizing europe and now Jered are the ones I like but at the prices its Sizing Europe

ibanez777vbk

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

The Champion Hurdle market is very messy at the mo.

I can't have about 9 of the first dozen in the market as they have an awful lot to prove stepping up from novice class to take on the big boys.

Binocular looked an absolute class act last year. Him, sizing europe and now Jered are the ones I like but at the prices its Sizing Europe

its like jj oneils black jack ketchum awsome as a novice,but didnt train on season after.way to early to be considering betting on cheltenham.id be looking more at irish trained horses for champion hurdle.not to many hurdling hotpots over here

Shan75

War of Attrition back out at Thurles.Should be an easy enough race for him.Hopefully he will win by a street and then maybe on to the Lexus to take on Neptune Collonges.

Frankie Lee

ibanez777vbk wrote: »

rumour has it denman will run in the national.not sure thats a good idea would probs carry 11-10 mark way to high

I thought Denman was going to run in the french equivalant of the gold cup which is also run in april if memory serves correctly.

In other news will racing take place at the curragh next year now that the new track is on hold?

ibanez777vbk

1 bet today salient (lingfield).loves lingfield,been running off marks in high 80s runs today off 82 also has a good draw 33/1 small ew bet

careca

Frankie Lee wrote: »

In other news will racing take place at the curragh next year now that the new track is on hold?

They are applying for all their fixtures back, so I imagine they will get them. Pity as I live around the corner from Leop and have free access there. Was looking forward to the Derby.

Bluetonic

ibanez777vbk wrote: »

rumour has it denman will run in the national.not sure thats a good idea would probs carry 11-10 mark way to high

LOL hardly a rumour.

The grand national is now part of the Betfair million and the owners have already said he WILL be running all things going well, hence the reason he is the ap fav.

ibanez777vbk

Bluetonic wrote: »

LOL hardly a rumour.

The grand national is now part of the Betfair million and the owners have already said he WILL be running all things going well, hence the reason he is the ap fav.

bad move if you ask me.as a great horse that he is,the weight will cripple him 11-10 AT LEAST, look what happened to alverton.ill never forget the pictures in the sun the next day,jonjo crying over the strickened horse.shame was going very well would have won

ibanez777vbk

get on richard hannons GALEOTA tommorow at doncaster.ran 4 times at doncaster won 4,goes for a 5 timer at donny,won on soft ground aswell trades arond 16/1

Bluetonic

Nicholls has 4 at the advance declaration stage for the grade 1 novice hurdle in Fairyhouse on the 30th.

He's taking this seriously.

ibanez777vbk

im sick of betting at the moment.cant win jack ****

franny1

Anyone know of the wherebouts of a horse called cold turkey and if his career is finished?
I have been a massive fan of him in the last few years and he doesnt seem to be entered for any race!

Just re a post earlier on denman, he won last year in a canter with 11-10 on his back, the opposition will be off similiar standards in the national or possibly worse

mdwexford

franny1 wrote: »

Anyone know of the wherebouts of a horse called cold turkey and if his career is finished?
I have been a massive fan of him in the last few years and he doesnt seem to be entered for any race!

Just re a post earlier on denman, he won last year in a canter with 11-10 on his back, the opposition will be off similiar standards in the national or possibly worse

Who cares, its jumps time.

If you are referring to the Hennessy he won it off a mark of 161, he is currently rated 182, thats 21lbs more. Running him in the Grand National would be nothing short of retarded imo.

ibanez777vbk

it is a bad idea like.running denman in the national

Pighead

mdwexford wrote: »

Who cares, its jumps time.

If you are referring to the Hennessy he won it off a mark of 161, he is currently rated 182, thats 21lbs more. Running him in the Grand National would be nothing short of retarded imo.

Isn't the Grand National part of the Betfair Million Bonus this season. Surely that will be enough to tempt Denmans owners to enter him in the national?

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Morgans

Pighead wrote: »

Isn't the Grand National part of the Betfair Million Bonus this season. Surely that will be enough to tempt Denmans owners to enter him in the national?

But to get the bonus he would have needed to run in the Betfair Chase on Saturday which isnt going to happen.

The french Gold Cup is the most likely option for him after CHeltenham according to connections.

It would be great if he was to run in the Grand National as several class horses with the national as their aim would need to break their arses to get into the handicap rather than hiding in handicap hurdles until February.

Frankie Lee

Anyone know why Paddy Flood is not riding for Mouse Morris anymore, I know he's getting Dessie Hughes's rides in the absence of Loughran but he hasn't rode for Morris since the 13th november.

rynners

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Anyone know why Paddy Flood is not riding for Mouse Morris anymore, I know he's getting Dessie Hughes's rides in the absence of Loughran but he hasn't rode for Morris since the 13th november.

yes. morris told him that if he rode for hughes the other day he'd never have him up on another.. that came from a friend of mine who's a friend of floods who has a horse that paddy rode the other day. without trying to sound complicated..

rynners

and watch flood get better and better rides from now on...

Frankie Lee

I thought it would be something like that, the question now is what will happen at DH's when Roger Loughran comes back as there will be a fair bit of competition for rides.

Another topic is whatever happened to Emmet Butterly, he looked like he was going places a couple of years ago, rode out his claim but at the moment his only having nothing rides for Noel Meade.

Frankie Lee

rynners wrote: »

and watch flood get better and better rides from now on...

He's a top jockey but he can be terribly lazy I've heard.

rynners

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I thought it would be something like that, the question now is what will happen at DH's when Roger Loughran comes back as there will be a fair bit of competition for rides.

Another topic is whatever happened to Emmet Butterly, he looked like he was going places a couple of years ago, rode out his claim but at the moment his only having nothing rides for Noel Meade.

no idea on emmet butterly.

rynners

Frankie Lee wrote: »

He's a top jockey but he can be terribly lazy I've heard.

my friend swears by him. I've noticed him riding too and was impressed.

I have my own thoughts on jocks and devide them into winners and losers. P Flood smacks as a winner as does laughran.

Frankie Lee

Dessie Hughes always liked Paddy Flood by all accounts, longer than most would in those situations.

rynners

he does obviously.

Colonel Sanders

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

A mate told me about a radio interview he heard Davy Russell do the day before the race. Was very confident WOA was still a very good horse. He was also very bullish about another Gigginstown horse trained by Tom Taffe. Shouldertoshoulder. P2P winner who was second in a leopardstown maiden hurdle on stephens day last year

Shouldertoshoulder runs in a maiden hurdle at Navan today. 9/4 favourite with Powers, which isn't giving too much away. Not a massively competitive race but has been off a long time. Bit of cash for it already this morning.

cson

I think it may be time to send Sizing Europe off to the Glue Factory. Something is gone very wrong with that horse. Great performance by Sublimity though.

Colonel Sanders

It wouldn't surprise me if Sizing Europe had a breathing problem.

meriwether

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

It wouldn't surprise me if Sizing Europe had a breathing problem.

I dont see a champion hurdle in him to be honest.

Its Binoculars, sublimity second, probably Punjabi filling third spot again.

I dont know what Aigle D'or or sentry duty will do however (if anything).

Bluetonic

cson wrote: »

I think it may be time to send Sizing Europe off to the Glue Factory. Something is gone very wrong with that horse. Great performance by Sublimity though.

Performance of the day was by Won In The Dark in my opinion. He's going to be up against it (least not age) but good ground (of course I know they won't let it be good, but maybe the good side of soft) at Cheltenham will see him run very well indeed, unfortunately I'd say the ground won't be right for him in the AIG (or the Toshiba as we have to call it now ), never is that time of the year.

Corskeagh Royale won very well too without being asked to produce anything, was certainly capable of a big margin win today.