Just a word to the wise

L-M

To any of those who are driving un registered English imports, i wouldn't advise doing so this weekend, seems the lads at the top are getting pissed off.

Tipsy Mac

Yes went through 2 checkpoints this afternoon, was only Gardai though, no Revenue lads.

FredH3as

So, do you condone this behaviour outside of this weekend? :eek:

L-M

FredH3as wrote: »

So, do you condone this behaviour outside of this weekend? :eek:

Lol, no i'm just adivising to especially not to do it this weekend, it is illegal is most cases after all.

Limerick-man

Limerick-man wrote: »

To any of those who are driving un registered English imports, i wouldn't advise doing so this weekend, seems the lads at the top are getting pissed off.

Are you just presuming or have you heard of a specific crack down?

L-M

Julie Sour Rap wrote: »

Are you just presuming or have you heard of a specific crack down?

Specific crackdown. It's about time too i think.

Wishbone Ash

Limerick-man wrote: »

To any of those who are driving un registered English imports

Those driving vehicles imported from Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales will be OK?

Why do wish to warn those who are stealing from the law abiding motorist?

I have not seen anything yet anyway, guards or customs. Thankfully .

NiSmO

This post has been deleted.

L-M

NiSmO wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

:eek:


:pac:

L-M

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Why do wish to warn those who are stealing from the law abiding motorist?

I'm actually wondering why i post this thread now. Delete it if you can.

degsie

Deserves a wrap on the knuckles tbh...

Captain Slow IRL

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Why do wish to warn those who are stealing from the law abiding motorist?

Fianna Fáil?!

Esel

Countdown started for Ninety9er rebuttal.

Steve

clip clop clip clop


it hurrrrts.
it buuuuurns.


C'mon, the high horse forum is this way >>>>>>>>>>> .......

Berty

As I left Limerick on Sat morning, there were loads of revenue at their favourite haunt of the Roadstone entrance just past Birdhill.

They were having a meeting at the side of the road and were just about to stop traffic.

Could be anything they are checking for other than just UK reg cars.

If you are driving one without registering then you deserve to be caught anyway.

Raiser

FredH3as wrote: »

So, do you condone this behaviour outside of this weekend? :eek:

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Those driving vehicles imported from Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales will be OK?

Why do wish to warn those who are stealing from the law abiding motorist?

Limerick-man wrote: »

I'm actually wondering why i post this thread now. Delete it if you can.

quirke_folder wrote: »

As I left Limerick on Sat morning, there were loads of revenue at their favourite haunt of the Roadstone entrance just past Birdhill.

They were having a meeting at the side of the road and were just about to stop traffic.

Could be anything they are checking for other than just UK reg cars.

If you are driving one without registering then you deserve to be caught anyway.

:eek: Why? Is it because VRT is a fair, legal equitable tax paid by motoring consumers all across the EC?? ???

Let me ask you; if Fianna Fail started charging a daily Pyjamas Tax of €7.50 - would you just nod blankly and go hunting for your wallet last thing at night???

- Re. VRT disdain on the grounds of its brazen illegality and cynical thievery, I know that a lot of people avoid paying it for as long as possible and that for every month that they do the figure drops significantly. Now where can I please, please queue for hours in the rain to buy the book, t-shirt and DVD for that ideology?



P.S. Somebody please bring back the Post Of The Month award

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Why do wish to warn those who are stealing from the law abiding motorist?

Captain Slow IRL wrote:

Fianna Fáil?!

Matt Simis

Having questioned some people on their issue with "yellow regs", it eventually boiled down to they didn't feel it fair that Jim next door is getting away with something they cant or wont do and nothing to do with the morality and definitely nothing to do with being "robbed". Its just another form of the sickening begrudgery that we Irish inflict upon one another.

Ive imported lots of cars, paids lots of VRT (EUR16k VRT on the last one, inflated due to the lack of transparency of the system irrelevant of the justice of it or not) and EUR1500 a year tax per car. I drive on roads that wouldnt look out of place in the outskirts of Soviet Russia (yeah, they have real motorways to go with real, working, MRSA free hospitals in that "Eastern Europe" place you heard about) and have broken Tire Pressure Sensors, wheels, tires, suspension wear, scraped paint etc etc to show for it.


We are already paying through the nose for the privilege of driving here, I have no qualms with others dodging a dubiously legal (at best its only breaking the spirit of a free trade EU) second import tax. The real travesty is the otherwise intelligent people that not only tolerate our entire situation but look down on those that dont.

Do you know who the Inoffizielle Mitarbeitere are? They are you lot tomorrow. Dont waste this chance for free speech by showing the world what pious drones you are.

-Chris-

But is that not the same selfish logic that lets people decide not to pay car insurance because it's too expensive - pushing up the cost for everyone else.

I don't agree with VRT, but I agree less with people deciding that it doesn't apply to them just because they can't afford it/don't want to pay it.

Matt Simis

AudiChris wrote: »

But is that not the same selfish logic that lets people decide not to pay car insurance because it's too expensive - pushing up the cost for everyone else.

I don't agree with VRT, but I agree less with people deciding that it doesn't apply to them just because they can't afford it/don't want to pay it.

Given that car insurance is there to protect the individual, no, its not even remotely similar. The Pyjamas tax is closer analogy.

I dont think anyone is saying it "doesn't apply" to them, that is a statement of fact that is too obviously incorrect. What the gripe revolves around the reasons to pay and tow the line are not (to some) ethically sound while others bemoan them based on selfish reasons and not moral high horse they claim to represent. It comes down to a question you can ask yourself, should you obey a law because its a law or because the law is correct and right? If you follow every law (a dangerous road) then you will never understand a viewpoint that questions it.

VRT is a tax on a tax and its against what our union of states represents and the system that dicates its amount is closed from and doesnt represent the public.

Insurance, while expensive, is a free market governed service that protects car owners and fellow road users.

jackofalltrades

Matt Simis wrote:

I dont think anyone is saying it "doesn't apply" to them, that is a statement of fact that is too obviously incorrect. What the gripe revolves around the reasons to pay and tow the line are not (to some) ethically sound while others bemoan them based on selfish reasons and not moral high horse they claim to represent. It comes down to a question you can ask yourself, should you obey a law because its a law or because the law is correct and right? If you follow every law (a dangerous road) then you will never understand a viewpoint that questions it.

VRT is a tax on a tax and its against what our union of states represents and the system that dicates its amount is closed from and doesn't represent the public.

Tax evasion is tax evasion no matter how you try to dress it up. If your so strongly against it set up a campaign against it and get it removed. Not paying it is not the answer.

You do realise that you would have to raise the tax, and its quite a lot of tax when you look at it, from somewhere else.

Would you be happy with a 2/3% increase on the base rate of PAYE?

rabbitinlights

jackofalltrades wrote: »

You do realise that you would have to raise the tax, and its quite a lot of tax when you look at it, from somewhere else.

Would you be happy with a 2/3% increase on the base rate of PAYE?

VRT last year was 1.3 Billion Euros.

FredH3as

Matt Simis wrote: »

blah, blah,blah....

Do us a favour pal and move to a different country where the ethics are more in line with your way of thinking...:rolleyes:

illdoit2morrow

They were stopping for this in Navan yesterday.

_Kaiser_

Swords too last night around 6-ish near Applewood.

Have to agree with Matt on this one. The people that have an issue with people avoiding paying this (legally dubious) tax until they have to are not doing so on any moral or ethical grounds, but rather because they begrudge that person "getting away" with something they haven't the wit or balls to do themselves.

Look how much ignorance (for want of a better term) surrounds the entire process of importing a car and, now that more people are realising the benefits - not only financial but also a better spec/condition car if you do your homework right - the bleating that's going on by SIMI and the government because people are exercising their right to shop elsewhere (as we're being so often advised lately by the consumer agencies). It was the same with people shopping online for DVDs/CDs remember.

The problem (as usual) is Irish begrudgery on one side, and an expectation to be able to keep ripping off the general public on the other. In between that is caught the motorist who used a bit of initiative and refused to pay for an overpriced, underspecced vehicle here and brought one in themselves.

Feck the begrudgers I say. As for the motor industry here.. as the great Gordon Gekko once said: "The new law of evolution in corporate America seems to be survival of the unfittest. Well, in my book you either do it right or you get eliminated"

Hear Hear!

Zube

My suggestion for the Minister's budget today: introduce an order giving the guards the power to seize un-VRT'd cars and crush them while the owner watches.

There'll be a queue of tax-dodgers wanting to pay up the morning after photos are on the front of the papers.

furtzy

Zube wrote: »

My suggestion for the Minister's budget today: introduce an order giving the guards the power to seize un-VRT'd cars and crush them while the owner watches.

There'll be a queue of tax-dodgers wanting to pay up the morning after photos are on the front of the papers.

+1

I'd even pay to watch

smash

Zube wrote: »

My suggestion for the Minister's budget today: introduce an order giving the guards the power to seize un-VRT'd cars and crush them while the owner watches.

There'll be a queue of tax-dodgers wanting to pay up the morning after photos are on the front of the papers.

god... get a life will you!

Zube

Zube wrote: »

My suggestion for the Minister's budget today: introduce an order giving the guards the power to seize un-VRT'd cars and crush them while the owner watches.

There'll be a queue of tax-dodgers wanting to pay up the morning after photos are on the front of the papers.

Does it really bother you that much that some people are not afraid to drive around for a while without paying VRT and dont say they are stealing from you because nobody is stopping you from buying a car in the UK and doing the same.

Luckily where I live people say "fair play to you" rather than complain or begrudge you for not VRTing a car.

Marcus.Aurelius

Julie Sour Rap wrote: »

Luckily where I live people say "far play to you" rather than complain or begrudge you for not VRTing a car.

Perhaps you shouldn't be seeking the wittering indulgences of these "people". Everyone who avoids VRT has no excuse, its hardly lack of information. They knew how much it cost from day one. If they can't pay it, stuff them.

Crush the car and fine them 10% of their gross wage for that year. I'm sick of all this whining about unfair taxes. We all pay them, irrespective of their fairness.

OldmanMondeo

Right or wrong it's a tax that should be paid. Point is to many people are driving around with unpaid VRT. Everyone else that purchases a car in Ireland is "forced" to pay the vrt, so why should someone get away without paying? A lad I work with has a car from the north for over 1 year without paying the VRT.

Like road tax, why should most pay and others not?

Edit, Revenue and Guards were at Enfield this morning between 7:30 and 8:00 checking for Diesel and well as, I am sure, VRT.

Joker

Joker wrote: »

Perhaps you shouldn't be seeking the wittering indulgences of these "people". Everyone who avoids VRT has no excuse, its hardly lack of information. They knew how much it cost from day one. If they can't pay it, stuff them.

Crush the car and fine them 10% of their gross wage for that year. I'm sick of all this whining about unfair taxes. We all pay them, irrespective of their fairness.

Is it now illegal to make a small spelling mistake! It wouldnt surprise me. Just as a matter of interest I can actually VRT my car for free as I lived in the UK for over a year but as they have that other crazy rule that you have to keep the car for a year after clearing it I will be keeping my car registered to my UK address thank you very much. Who knows when you might want to sell your car.

_Kaiser_

Genuine question to all those complaining about people around them not paying VRT:

Do you actually report these neighbours/friends/family/colleagues who are annoying your sense of right and wrong so much, or do you just moan about it online/to others?

See, I reckon that in addition to simple Irish begrudgery, the other issue here is that if people genuinely believe this, then why are they reluctant/afraid to stand up and be counted?

Probably because the Irish as a nation piss and whinge about people around them "getting away" with things, but won't say anything about it in case their own little scams are brought to light - indeed, isn't that the biggest problem with this country? We're too busy trying to get one over on each other than the "greater good" is only mentioned when there's some personal gain attached to it.

Marcus.Aurelius

Julie Sour Rap wrote: »

I will be keeping my car registered to my UK address thank you very much. Who knows when you might want to sell your car.

I forgot the "everyone should change their systems for me" immigrants.

@Kaiser, I usually report them, neighbour or not.

Joker

Joker wrote: »

I forgot the "everyone should change their systems for me" immigrants.

@Kaiser, I usually report them, neighbour or not.

I can assure you Im irish! I just moved there for a year and i am back home again now!;)

Marcus.Aurelius

Julie Sour Rap wrote: »

I can assure you Im irish! I just moved there for a year and i am back home again now!;)

OK, no worries.:D

I've no doubt its unfair and badly implemented. I suppose it unnerves those who just pay it up straight.

I'd prefer to see it abolished. If the useless FF govt could actually spend the money without paying construction buddies off, the lost revenue would be of little concern.

Matt Simis

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Tax evasion is tax evasion no matter how you try to dress it up. If your so strongly against it set up a campaign against it and get it removed. Not paying it is not the answer.

You do realise that you would have to raise the tax, and its quite a lot of tax when you look at it, from somewhere else.
Would you be happy with a 2/3% increase on the base rate of PAYE?

Currently the motorist (via VRT) is paying 60% of local council funding, a "service" that benefits everybody. Since most of the money benefits local communities, if there is a need for increased taxes it should be evenly spread across something we all do and use as well as being transparent.

FredH3as wrote: »

Do us a favour pal and move to a different country where the ethics are more in line with your way of thinking...:rolleyes:

Such as where? The UK? They wouldnt stand for this as they have neither the begrudery or tow-the-line do what you are told mental conditioning we have.

Joker wrote: »

Perhaps you shouldn't be seeking the wittering indulgences of these "people". Everyone who avoids VRT has no excuse, its hardly lack of information. They knew how much it cost from day one. If they can't pay it, stuff them.

Crush the car and fine them 10% of their gross wage for that year. I'm sick of all this whining about unfair taxes. We all pay them, irrespective of their fairness.

If you had read the above the conversation a bit closer you would see its about attitudes towards VRT. It has nothing to do with not being able to pay (certainly what Im discussing isnt).

10% gross wage for a year penalty? Considering how much salary tax already exists then some people would be better off not working at all. What a bizarre suggestion.


Again, think carefully, if there was a tax tomorrow on something you take for granted, perhaps say a Window Tax in your home, would you be so quick to so harshly condemn any dissent? Because VRT has existed for a long time it becomes more "accepted" but no less acceptable.

Marcus.Aurelius

Matt Simis wrote: »

10% gross wage for a year penalty? Considering how much salary tax already exists then some people would be better off not working at all. What a bizarre suggestion.

What a bizzare rebuttal. Better than prison. The deterrent must be harsh, or it will never deter.

Matt Simis

Joker wrote: »

What a bizzare rebuttal. Better than prison. The deterrent must be harsh, or it will never deter.

You're gone way off on a tangent. Appropriate penalty for the appropriate crime. Answer the question in the section of the quotation you deleted if you please.

EDIT: Wait a sec, aren't you our resident Garda? I find your knee jerk, hardline penalties (to something that in reality harms no one) a rather troubling mindset to have in such a profession.

_Kaiser_

Joker wrote: »

@Kaiser, I usually report them, neighbour or not.

I'm genuinely interested, so can you tell me why you wouldn't if you feel so offended by this. Is it because you know the neighbour personally or get on well with them?

What about family, or in-laws? If your girlfriend's brother say (assuming for a minute you have either ) brings in a car and doesn't VRT it the next day, do you report him?

I've replied to you as you were the first to answer my question, but it applies to everyone who objects to people not paying VRT unless they have to.
What I'm getting at really is are you (all) selectively judging who the law applies to, or are you reporting everyone (regardless of your relationship to/with them).

If the former, then really you are in no position to object at all...

Zube

Julie Sour Rap wrote: »

dont say they are stealing from you because nobody is stopping you from buying a car in the UK and doing the same.

Don't complain when some teenage skanger steals your car, just steal your neighbour's!

-Chris-

This thread is frustrating me because I really don't want to find my self up on one of those high horses I've heard so much about, but I'm finding it hard to help myself...

Julie Sour Rap wrote: »

...nobody is stopping you from buying a car in the UK and doing the same.

Yes they are. They work for customs & revenue. Some of them work in the Gardai. They will enforce the taxation legislation and confiscate/fine etc. etc.

I'm not a do gooder, I'm not going to dob in my neighbour for not paying VRT, but there's nothing you can say to me that will convince me that VRT isn't payable on cars imported normally by Irish residents.

cantdecide

Is there any source for finding out how much tax per motorist we pay??

Lots of countries charge different taxes and different rates of those taxes but I'm not aware of any that have the full spectrum of taxes forced on the population as enthusiastically as the humble Paddy.

Clever government marketing has seen to that. Mr Ford Focus and Mrs Nissan Micra couldn't care less about there little shopping trolley or how much they're being screwed we all are and as long as Brian Dobson tells them small uns have less tax therefore they're the smart ones.

Unless we plan on getting Mr Ford Focus and Mrs Nissan Micra to get interested (ie, upset as we are they should be) in how much we all as motorists pay which will be nigh on impossible- that's why they are the blissful ignorant and couldn't give a s***e, nothing will ever happen.

AudiChris

AudiChris wrote: »

This thread is frustrating me because I really don't want to find my self up on one of those high horses I've heard so much about, but I'm finding it hard to help myself...



Yes they are. They work for customs & revenue. Some of them work in the Gardai. They will enforce the taxation legislation and confiscate/fine etc. etc.

I'm not a do gooder, I'm not going to dob in my neighbour for not paying VRT, but there's nothing you can say to me that will convince me that VRT isn't payable on cars imported normally by Irish residents.

I see where your coming from. Yes the customs are there to stop you but nobody is stopping anybody from taking the risk of driving without paying VRT. Now in fairness from reading on here the risk of getting caught appears to be much higher in certain parts of the country.

I would also like to make the point that not every car on an english plate is being driven illegally. As I said above Im fully entitled to drive my car on UK plates for six months or longer as its hard to prove when the six months started;).

BeardyGit

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I'm genuinely interested, so can you tell me why you wouldn't if you feel so offended by this. Is it because you know the neighbour personally or get on well with them?

What about family, or in-laws? If your girlfriend's brother say (assuming for a minute you have either ) brings in a car and doesn't VRT it the next day, do you report him?

I've replied to you as you were the first to answer my question, but it applies to everyone who objects to people not paying VRT unless they have to.
What I'm getting at really is are you (all) selectively judging who the law applies to, or are you reporting everyone (regardless of your relationship to/with them).

If the former, then really you are in no position to object at all...

I've had a customs officer come to meet me for a tour of my workplace carpark. It's a big multinational, with something of the order of 1000 cars parked outside. He's taken down all non-Irish registrations, and will be back in the future to take another list for comparison.... Then he'll start looking to prosecute. Nobody has had a warning, and they won't either. This is off the back of me reporting the number of observed cars on foreign plates which I know are 'in country' for well over 6 months and in some cases for years....

I've reported family - An uncle and a cousin for not registering cars within a couple of weeks of import. I also wouldn't hesitate to report close friends or anyone else for that matter.

If you don't like the taxes associated with importing a vehicle, don't import one. Taxes are taxes - Pay them or move abroad for a taxation policy that better suits your idea of fairness. Or take a bus. I don't care what you do, as long as you obey the law of the land and that includes paying your taxes.

Feckin' bums, crooks and spongers don't.

Marcus.Aurelius

I would report anyone not within my immediate family. Within the family, I'd make sure they were going to get to grips with it at some stage.

I didn't join up to evade tax or help others to evade it.

Gil_Dub

Gil_Dub wrote: »

I've reported family - An uncle and a cousin for not registering cars within a couple of weeks of import. I also wouldn't hesitate to report close friends or anyone else for that matter.

:eek: Thats a new low! I would imagine your off there christmas card list if they know it was you that is!

_Kaiser_

Joker wrote: »

I would report anyone not within my immediate family. Within the family, I'd make sure they were going to get to grips with it at some stage.

I didn't join up to evade tax or help others to evade it.

With all due respect though, I'm sure most people do actually intend to pay the VRT "at some stage" (albeit usually when they're caught).
Therefore really you can't fairly criticise those same people when you are prepared to let others away with the same offense.

BeardyGit

Julie Sour Rap wrote: »

:eek: Thats a new low! I would imagine your off there christmas card list if they know it was you that is!

It's not a low and I couldn't give a flying ufck what they think to be honest.

Cheats and tax-evaders will always feel hard done by when they're caught. The rest of us should feel hard done by when they get away with it.... More importantly, we should stand up and say/do something about it.

For me, that's a quick call to my new friend in Customs and a very helpful investigations desk in Revenue.

The difference between posters on this thread comes down to how someone who pays their taxes (all of them) sees things, and the perspective of someone who chooses not to pay their dues.

I pay my taxes (NOT that I like having to do it), and I'll gladly shop ANYONE who doesn't. It's my right, and I consider it to be the right thing to do. They're nothing personal in this - I don't discriminate. I've shopped a guy with a 97 Cinquecento, and a guy with an 06 A6. Taxes are taxes....

And I'll be renewing my motor tax in November, no matter how hard Lenihan hits me this afternoon.... ;-)

cashmni1

Gil_Dub wrote: »

It's not a low and I couldn't give a flying ufck what they think to be honest.

Cheats and tax-evaders will always feel hard done by when they're caught. The rest of us should feel hard done by when they get away with it.... More importantly, we should stand up and say/do something about it.

For me, that's a quick call to my new friend in Customs and a very helpful investigations desk in Revenue.

The difference between posters on this thread comes down to how someone who pays their taxes (all of them) sees things,and the perspective of someone who chooses not to pay their dues.

I pay my taxes (NOT that I like having to do it), and I'll gladly shop ANYONE who doesn't. It's my right, and I consider it to be the right thing to do. They're nothing personal in this - I don't discriminate. I've shopped a guy with a 97 Cinquecento, and a guy with an 06 A6. Taxes are taxes....

And I'll be renewing my motor tax in November, no matter how hard Lenihan hits me this afternoon.... ;-)

Well well well, aren't you great!!
"Cheats and tax evaders will always feel hard done by when there caught" yip, your right there....a bit like FF, and the government at the moment isn't it?
" we should stand up and say/do something about it." When was the last time you stood up and complained about the abnormal tax the motorist pays in this country?
"My new friend in Customs" Well.......'nuff said really.

Raiser

Gil_Dub wrote:

I've reported family - An uncle and a cousin for not registering cars within a couple of weeks of import. I also wouldn't hesitate to report close friends or anyone else for that matter.<SNIP>

Wow.
What did they say when you told them?
What?
What do you mean you didn't tell them?
Oh...Ahem...Ya, what you say....?
I see - anonymously informing was it?
.... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... ....
- Why didn't you just call a day or two later to own up and call them nasty, sculking thieves in [glorious] person - just since you're standing safely on the righteous moral high ground?

Gil_Dub wrote:

If you don't like the taxes associated with importing a vehicle, don't import one. <SNIP>

You know that VRT is a huge proportion of the cost of a new car from an Irish forecourt too don't ya? VRT is also why the dashboard of an Irish sold car is littered with little plastic rectangles filling the holes where the buttons for nice little extra specifications should have been, but couldn't actually be included after VRT priced the higher spec models of that car into the stratosphere.

- The first car I ever owned in this Country that didn't have w@nky plastic blanks both sides of the steering wheel and all over the centre console was bought in Bristol. - Same spec car was never, ever available in Ireland.

VRT is the belligerent child borne of the septic loins of a fat sweating bureaucrat who has a sick smile on his greedy little face because he knows he is getting away with something at the expense of people who don't have the intelligence, balls or basic cop-on to cry "foul".

- If you act like a flaccid, insipid little drone there will always be some Gobshíte that will be more than happy to treat you like one.