Fair play to Enda Kenny

spadder

Kenny to take 5% pay cut

It may be a PR stunt, but it's a good leadership move. Lets see if FF follow suit?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1010/politics.html

Mena

5% ?

Pure stunt.

brianthebard

No all he has to do is give up any claim to his teaching wage.

mike65

Its bit of a party political stunt, and no don't expect anyone in FF to follow, or industry.

Mike

mydogjack

should be 25% wage cut. twat.

Celticfire

Pay increase to push TD salaries over €100,000




STEPHEN COLLINS, Political Editor

TDs WILL receive a pay rise of some €2,500 a year today under the final phase of the current national pay agreement. It will bring the basic salary to more than €100,000.

The Taoiseach's pay will go up by almost €7,000 a year while senior civil servants and judges will get similar increases under the final 2.5 per cent phase of Sustaining Progress.

All public servants will benefit from the 2.5 per cent award and it will also apply to public service pensions.

The Government recently deferred the implementation of a special pay award of €38,000 for the Taoiseach and €25,000 for Ministers which would have been paid in addition to the national pay rounds.

After the pay rise a backbench TD with less than seven year's experience will earn a basic €100,189 a year. Those with between seven and 10 years service will see their salaries rise to €103,389, while backbenchers with more than 10 years in the Dáil will get €106,567.

Most backbench TDs receive allowances on top of their salary for serving as chairs, vice-chairs or whips on one of the more than 20 Oireachtas committees.

Office holders, who are paid a separate salary for their ministerial positions will get the 2.5 per cent rise on their total income.

The Taoiseach's salary, including his TD's pay, will rise from €278,617 to €285,582 while the Tánaiste's salary will increase from €239,341 to €245,296.

Senators will get a rise in the basic salary to €70,133 with a corresponding rise to €74,607 for those with 10 years service in the Upper House. The salary of the Cathaoirleach of the Seanad will go up from €116,477 to €119,388.

© 2008 The Irish Times

That doesn't take into account expenses that are also paid out at very generous rates. If he brought his wage down to the average industrial wage then I might be impressed. Don't forget his eye is on the bigger ball, Taoiseach's salary for 4 years would more than make up for the shortfall..

BolBill

I thought I was going to read that he had stepped down as FG leader. Lets face it, he was so bad in the last election that nobody is going to vote for him in the next.

A tailors Dummy.

Nice hair Edna.

G'Luck

spadder

FF could steal his thunder by announcing a 10% cut.
Maybe they could say they have stopped accepting brown envelopes too???

McArmalite

spadder wrote: »

Kenny to take 5% pay cut

It may be a PR stunt, but it's a good leadership move. Lets see if FF follow suit?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1010/politics.html

Wouldn't get them (FG) elected as the government anyway. We'll still be stuck with FF for another while, it's not that FF are much good, but the opposition are so poor.

Fratton Fred

Does he have to buy his own tea?

helimachoptor

Mena wrote: »

5% ?

Pure stunt.

+1 5% of his salary will mean what he earns 95K instead of 100K whoopti fooking do

johnnyboy4711

You will still vote them in in the morning!
Wake up people and vote with your heads.
If you like the look of the country after the Maastricht treaty then vote Yes to Lisbon part 2 and see our country go down the tubes altogether!
j

BolBill

Eh no. No once and that should be the end of it.

mumhaabu

BolBill wrote: »

He was so bad in the last election that nobody is going to vote for him in the next.

I know he was so amazingly bad that h only managed to add twenty seats to the Fine Gaels tally, terrible I tells ya, every single seat in the dail should be FG according to you. Fine Gael will take control of well over 50% of County Councils next June and wait and see, Fianna Fail will be electorallly annihilated and will lose the next General election too.

seamus

Anyone here fancy taking a 5% pay cut?

No? Why not? If that's nothing, then surely you have the backbone to do it?

Yes it's a stunt, but whether you earn €20k or €200k, a 5% pay cut is a pretty hard thing to accept. I'd say it's even harder when you don't actually have to do it.

Enda Kenny is the man that the term "drip" was coined for, but fair play to him. The government were hmming and hawing over it, decided to "postpone" a generous payrise, made some brief gestures to pay cuts, and ultimately did nothing about it.

FG challenged the government to do something drastic, like take pay cuts, and have now put their money where their mouths are (literally) and are taking the pay cut themselves.

loyatemu

its a stunt, but he's making a valid point - TD's salaries have outstripped inflation substantially and are now way ahead of international benchmarks. And thats without even talking about expenses. They could all afford to take 10% cuts at least.

Anyone here fancy taking a 5% pay cut?

No, but I'm not a public representative - they are paid to show leadership in times such as these.

Don't forget his eye is on the bigger ball, Taoiseach's salary for 4 years would more than make up for the shortfall..

He'll never be taoiseach - he won't even be FG leader by the time of the next election.

mydogjack

said it before,say it again; enda,take a 25% cut and come back and talk to us then.

turgon

loyatemu wrote: »

No, but I'm not a public representative - they are paid to show leadership in times such as these.

Neither those the regular worker receive the ridiculous amount of money they give themselves for such little work.

Vegeta

seamus wrote: »

Anyone here fancy taking a 5% pay cut?

No? Why not? If that's nothing, then surely you have the backbone to do it?

Yes it's a stunt, but whether you earn €20k or €200k, a 5% pay cut is a pretty hard thing to accept. I'd say it's even harder when you don't actually have to do it.

Enda Kenny is the man that the term "drip" was coined for, but fair play to him. The government were hmming and hawing over it, decided to "postpone" a generous payrise, made some brief gestures to pay cuts, and ultimately did nothing about it.

FG challenged the government to do something drastic, like take pay cuts, and have now put their money where their mouths are (literally) and are taking the pay cut themselves.

Exactly, at least they're doing something positive.

How can the government preach to us about tightening belts and standing shoulder to shoulder while getting extremely well paid.

"Am because we cant manage a piggy bank let alone a country, we'll have to tax you more to make up for our complete incompetence"

Sound. Bend over and bite the pillow folks this one will be going in dry. I am by no means a partisan of any party but the country has been mismanaged, this is not bashing FF to be "cool" or "popular"

If taxes and rates are going up to pay for government spending then government spending should be controlled and that includes their pay. I say fair play to any politician who agrees to take a wage cut (not freeze) in times of need.

Crash

mydogjack wrote: »

said it before,say it again; Brian,take a 25% cut and come back and talk to us then.

Fixed.

And of course its a stunt, hell if you read the newspiece he says as much. Christ most of you are just bashing it because you don't like Kenny, not because you disagree with it.

Of course its a stunt, of course its a token, but at the same time fair play IMO. what Seamus said about it stands true in my eyes.

jmayo

McArmalite wrote: »

Wouldn't get them (FG) elected as the government anyway. We'll still be stuck with FF for another while, it's not that FF are much good, but the opposition are so poor.

Ok McMarmalade, care to tell us how the opposition are much worse ?
Have they been anywhere near the seat of power for the last 11 years.
These were the years of the great celtic tiger, where the exchequer was getting more money than ever before and yet what have we now ?
It appears we don't even have a pot to p*** in :rolleyes:
The only lasting thing the celtic tiger has left us a lot of us is it's rather large droppings and they are now beginning to stink big time. :rolleyes:

After 11 years of the great ff/Pd experiment where are we?
Most people are way deeper in personal debt.
We are all facing the scenario where we the taxpayers have to bail out the banks (the builders, the developers), private sector jobs are disappearing, taxes will have to increase to preserve the over inflated public sector employees and the measly public services will be cut even more.
Yeah I can see how the opposition have a lot to live up to :rolleyes:

Edit: just spotted something ... For anyone used to the History forum seeing Fratton Fred thanking McArmalite is akin to Iris Robinson having tea with David Norris prior to visting the vatican

Breezer

Going Forward wrote: »

Fixed.

And of course its a stunt, hell if you read the newspiece he says as much. Christ most of you are just bashing it because you don't like Kenny, not because you disagree with it.

Of course its a stunt, of course its a token, but at the same time fair play IMO. what Seamus said about it stands true in my eyes.

+1. Genuinely can't believe the reaction here. He calls for a pay cut, it doesn't come, so he takes one himself, and now he's the bad guy because he didn't sell all his worldly assets and give the money to the taxpayer? Of course it's not going to change the situation but it's more than Brian and Co. have done.

mike65

Amusingly he dissed this idea last week during a discussion on The Last Word (with Matt Cooper), the Greens had floated it and Kenny said it was tokenism and said the government should concentrate on efficency rather than stunts.

Mike

Y2J_MUFC

Fair play to Enda Kenny? My hole.

Its the most obvious attempt at a PR stunt seen for quite a while.

Put it in context, 5% means what to him? 115,000 instead of 120,000? That just means one less maid for two months. 5% may mean a hell of a lot to the ordinary worker, earning an average wage, but it means NOTHING to him.

Its a blatant attempt to paint himself in a good light and to generate positive news about him. In reality, this means absolutely nothing to him, and it means absolutely nothing to the tax payer.

I'd prefer if he did something productive to actually earn the wages he is currently getting rather than wasting time with absolutely meaningless stunts. He obviously must think people are naive and can't see through him. I'd much prefer he did something useful.

SeanW

It's a little bit rich calling this a PR stunt given that this time last year, the FF government went into emergency session on a Friday night to put about 200,000 then legally driving 2nd provisional licenseholders off the road with 3 1/2 days notice, oh and by the way we're also awarding ourselves an obscene pay hike ... as recommended by an independent body, of course.

As we now know, they had to delay both.

If you're looking for PR stunts, better to look at the gov't parties.

NIBBS

seriously, anybody that believes this to be anthing other than a political stunt should be ashamed of themselves. Having read through this thread I've seen mention that "they" (refering to FG) carried through and took a pay cut - unless there has been a change this evening this is not the case - it's an individual making a decision off his own bat not a party decision, if FG had of gone 5% across the board, even at ministerial level I would say fine, but they haven't. the % here is purely symbolic measure - and again for someone to actually say that 5% of €20k is the same as 5% of €200k maybe is an indication of how sad we have become as a nation.

In my own personal opinion all ministers, if not all TD's should be automatically having their pay reduced for the shambolic handling of everything they do.
FG and Labour should be docked salary as they fail at every election to mount any sort of opposition to vote for, it's very easy to sit back and take €100k a year for 4 years if you are not totally focussed on changing the incumbent govt.

It's all pretty much irrelevant anyway, I don't see any of them cutting their pay by a significant amount, surely they would be better off making sure the richest people in the land actually pay some tax in the country they live in.

BENDYBINN

if enda took a 70% cut he would be still overpaid

Breezer

Folks, no one's denying that it's a stunt, least of all Enda Kenny. He called it a "symbolic gesture," and it's done in an effort to highlight the indifference of the Government, which has not taken any kind of pay cut despite repeated calls to do so since last year. Of course it draws attention to FG; FG is a political organisation that needs votes if it wants to implement its policies, so it makes sense to try get attention focused on it. Not everyone is an intellectual who watches Oireachtas Report and reads The Economist, any political party needs to be making headlines from time to time.

As regards doing something useful, FG released an in-depth policy document today outlining exactly what the Government has done to cause this recession, and what Fine Gael would do differently in order to get us out of it. Have a read of it if you want to see something a bit more concrete. I realise that takes a bit more effort than sitting on high horses.

beggars_bush

Enda might give up the teaching job he is on a career break from too

give some young teacher a chance to get a permanent position

he'll be entitled to two pensions when he 'retires'

Crash

Y2J_MUFC wrote:

Put it in context, 5% means what to him? 115,000 instead of 120,000? That just means one less maid for two months. 5% may mean a hell of a lot to the ordinary worker, earning an average wage, but it means NOTHING to him.

You get paid for a job. No matter what the material difference, its not like he's earning a mil a year, where you can say **** like that. Also, your maths is terrible, take a refresher course.

Its a blatant attempt to paint himself in a good light and to generate positive news about him. In reality, this means absolutely nothing to him, and it means absolutely nothing to the tax payer.

Of course it means nothing to the tax payer. thats why he referred to it as symbolic.

sym·bol·ic [sim-bol-ik] /sɪmˈbɒl
1.serving as a symbol of something (often fol. by of).
2.of, pertaining to, or expressed by a symbol.
3.characterized by or involving the use of symbols: a highly symbolic poem.
4.(in semantics, esp. formerly) pertaining to a class of words that express only relations.
5.Computers. expressed in characters, usually nonnumeric, that require translation before they can be used

NIBBS wrote: »

seriously, anybody that believes this to be anthing other than a political stunt should be ashamed of themselves.

And they quite readily admit it. Your issue?

In my own personal opinion all ministers, if not all TD's should be automatically having their pay reduced for the shambolic handling of everything they do.

And so three have, yet you fail to commend it?


I honestly can't believe this - Yes its a publicity stunt, yes its nowhere near as crippling as if you were earning 20,000 and did the same thing, but its more than our government, who are in power and have the ability, and have used said ability, to give td's pay rises to the point where they're earning over 100,000 euro a year despite the fact that I can count 2 out of 15 ministers currently that I have even the tiniest shred of respect for and would consider that they earn it, yet people are more than willing to turn around and attack the opposition? tell you what, as a quiz, if 10 of yee can turn around tomorrow night and tell me what occured in the dail tomorrow (even watching the oireachtas report will count) I will rescind that argument staight away. As it stands, no wonder FF end up in government each election.

edit: bad case come back to me monday evening as opposed to tomorrow, forgot it was a weekend

galwayrush

Well done Enda, it's a positive move in setting a good example.

tom-d

With Enda not being in government there is not much he can do to make change in the country and hence get in the news..........................this is one of the few things enda can do that may set an example to the whole of Leinster house..................if you dont have your players on the pitch, you cant play ball

The situation is a bit like Irelands bank bail out really, one does it, the rest must follow

thetyreman

All i say is fairplay to Mr.Velcro,he say the train comeing and got the **** off the track....................

Vyse

Fair play to Enda. I won't add fuel to the fire by adding anymore moronic comments to the ones already made.

Crash

by the quality of the posts on this thread, it should be in AH. My understanding was the reason we posted in politics was because we could be reasonably guaranteed proper discussion. at least half, if not three quarters of the posts on this thread do not deserve to be in this fora. Thought this place was better than that.

Oh well

jmayo

tom-d wrote: »

Enda likes thinking up of little stunts that will get him in the news for a day just to remind people that his party still exists.....cause they cant do much else not being in government...............if you dont have your players on the pitch, you cant play ball

Well tom-d, nice to see your third post being so constructive.

Speaking in your football parlance, your great team that has been on the pitch for the last 11 years seem to have had to put the pitch, the home ground, the whole kit and kaboodle in hock to bail out the banks, who have been giving loads of money they don't appear to ever had, to the teams sponsors, the developers and builders.
Oh and the ball is burst just like their great economic bubble. :rolleyes:

tom-d

j-mayo think your right, was a bit harsh on Enda(ill edit it), the main point I was trying to get across was Tds not in government can really do sweet fa

oh and you refereed to them as my team! certainly not the case!:D

Hope people dont already think of me as a stuipd ranter!!!

Agent Smith

McArmalite wrote: »

Wouldn't get them (FG) elected as the government anyway. We'll still be stuck with FF for another while, it's not that FF are much good, but the opposition are so poor.

Have a Guess which party was the only party to increase its seats in the last election.

ninty9er

I wonder what Richard Bruton and Kieran O'Donnell's wives had to say about their willingness to take 5% of their salary out of the household budget for next year....bare in mind they don't get a 60k leaders allowance either;)

Liam Byrne

Jeez - for the first time in YEARS a politician does something positive (however small, it is positive) and all we get is American-style dismissal and derision ???? Pathetic!

Yes, €5,000 might be a drop in the ocean for a high-level TD, but it's the principle that counts, and fair play!

Yes, if Enda took a bigger cut it'd be even better for the country, but rather than deriding it as party politics we should be asking why the other 165 politicians aren't doing likewise......

165 x €5,000 would still be a drop in the ocean, but it would make the budget more palatable if we knew that the Government weren't simply expecting US to pay for their incompetence and mismanagement.

Small token gesture ? Yes. Publicity stunt ? More than likely. Worthy of consideration by all the other incompetent fat-cats who've landed us in this mess ? Definitely.

Of course, this thread is the perfect example of the party-political-driven derision seen elsewhere.

Rather than deriding Enda for this, we should be asking why Cowen and Harney aren't doing likewise.

Over the next few months, many companies will be looking at their budgets and balance sheets and looking at redundancies and pay cuts; the Minister for Finance should do likewise.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

I wonder what Richard Bruton and Kieran O'Donnell's wives had to say about their willingness to take 5% of their salary out of the household budget for next year....bare in mind they don't get a 60k leaders allowance either;)

We're not paying Bruton or O'Donnell's wives to have opinions that affect the country, so if you want to pose that question in "Tabloidesque Celebrity Household Issues" or some relevant thread, fire away.

This is a politics forum, so the pertinent question SHOULD be "I wonder what the electorate will have to say about the OTHER politicians UNWILLINGNESS to show example and take responsibility........"

the_syco

mydogjack wrote: »

should be 25% wage cut. twat.

Agreed. But Enda will make up that 5% in expenses...

nesf

The Irish Times reaction: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/1011/1223676792854.html?digest=1

SeanW

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Yes, if Enda took a bigger cut it'd be even better for the country, but rather than deriding it as party politics we should be asking why the other 165 politicians aren't doing likewise

...

Rather than deriding Enda for this, we should be asking why Cowen and Harney aren't doing likewise.

Over the next few months, many companies will be looking at their budgets and balance sheets and looking at redundancies and pay cuts; the Minister for Finance should do likewise.

+1;

BTW isn't the 30% odd pay rise that the gov't awarded themselves last year but deferred, coming due about now?

Enda was on the last word earlier in the week deriding an 8% cut for T.D's as a token gesture.
The very next day he announces a 5% cut for himself.
The man is all over the place to be honest.


As for waste of money over the last ten years,I agree it's a disgrace.
However I am realistic to know that if the other gang were in power they'd probably have wasted just as much and it would be FF giving out.

Irish politicians are for the most part inept unfortunately.
Mind you so are the voters.

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Jeez - for the first time in YEARS a politician does something positive (however small, it is positive) and all we get is American-style dismissal and derision ???? Pathetic!

Yes, €5,000 might be a drop in the ocean for a high-level TD, but it's the principle that counts, and fair play!

Yes, if Enda took a bigger cut it'd be even better for the country, but rather than deriding it as party politics we should be asking why the other 165 politicians aren't doing likewise......

165 x €5,000 would still be a drop in the ocean, but it would make the budget more palatable if we knew that the Government weren't simply expecting US to pay for their incompetence and mismanagement.

Small token gesture ? Yes. Publicity stunt ? More than likely. Worthy of consideration by all the other incompetent fat-cats who've landed us in this mess ? Definitely.

Of course, this thread is the perfect example of the party-political-driven derision seen elsewhere.

Rather than deriding Enda for this, we should be asking why Cowen and Harney aren't doing likewise.

Over the next few months, many companies will be looking at their budgets and balance sheets and looking at redundancies and pay cuts; the Minister for Finance should do likewise.

SO....if all members of the Oireachtas take a 5% hit, will you take a 1% cut?? There's no point recommending it for others if you're not willing to do it yourself, which was the point Kenny was trying to make.

jmayo

Liam Byrne wrote: »

We're not paying Bruton or O'Donnell's wives to have opinions that affect the country, so if you want to pose that question in "Tabloidesque Celebrity Household Issues" or some relevant thread, fire away.

This is a politics forum, so the pertinent question SHOULD be "I wonder what the electorate will have to say about the OTHER politicians UNWILLINGNESS to show example and take responsibility........"

Liam you are forgetting that the poster of that comment is a buidler party fan so it is easier for him to scorn Kenny's idea than have to answer why FF and their gang would not do something likewise.

Next thing you will see is fianna failure trying to blame Kenny and FG/Labour for the cockup that is our economy :rolleyes:

jmayo

ninty9er wrote: »

SO....if all members of the Oireachtas take a 5% hit, will you take a 1% cut?? There's no point recommending it for others if you're not willing to do it yourself, which was the point Kenny was trying to make.

Does Liam Byrne work for the government, is he a public employee ?
If not then the only ones that should care what he is paid is himself and his employer.
I don't care what he earns because I the taxpayer don't have to foot the bill !

ninty9er

jmayo wrote: »

Does Liam Byrne work for the government, is he a public employee ?
If not then the only ones that should care what he is paid is himself and his employer.
I don't care what he earns because I the taxpayer don't have to foot the bill !

Regardless of public servant or not, as consumers we all do foot the bill. It's not a matter of public sector pay. While that outstrips the private sector at the lower end of the scale, once you get to management level the private sector outstrips it and puts pressure on inflation.

Kenny is leading by example, fair enough, but it's all well and good for him, with allowances to back it up. Charlie Flanagan, Brian Hayes and Billy Timmons say that more or less they can't afford it. Now while €5,329.05 is nothing to be sniffed at, none of them would go hungry without it. I would like to see the Finance Bill 2009 put a pay freeze across the public sector (to be honest I could deal with nurses and Gardaí getting increases) and a 10% cut across all constitutional institutions. Basically bringing the salary of a TD to €95,922.90 from €106,581. However, this is messing with people's lives, so not effective until January, pending a review of salary policy for members of the Oireachtas to bring them in line with the level they would have earned in their previous profession....(e.g a Senator who had been a barrister would get €200k and one who had been a principal would get €80k) This incentivises those who don't run because of money and disincentivises those who do, so that we get a better performing Oireachtas.

Of course little of that has anything to do with Enda Kenny, but I'm not dissing the man, I just don't think it can be sincere if he's not taking 5% off his entire remuneration package.

dresden8

Has he given up his teachers pay?

ninty9er

dresden8 wrote: »

Has he given up his teachers pay?

IIRC he gave it up last year before the election. Open to correction on that though. About time after 30 years IMO.