Irish pubs

Tawny

Its not the first story on this topic, but BBC have a fresh article on the demise of the irish pub.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7658139.stm

What do Boardies think?

Is it that "there has been a cultural change within Irish society with people becoming increasingly selfish rather than sociable, and more interested in saving money than drinking beer"?

Or is it the problems getting to the pub now with the focus on drink driving and the smoking ban?

Or is it greedy publicans charging too much for drinks and not offering a good service?

big b

Hmmm, given your user name..........
I don't give two hoots

Kintarō Hattori

I don't believe it's because we're selfish:

I had a drink of cider in Murphy's Bar in Rathmines a few weeks ago, it was almost €6 per pint. That's insane. It's simply become far too expensive to drink in a pub often. I'd do it every now and again with some friends who don't live here or if someone is leaving work etc.

It's more economical to drink at home where you have access to better food, better entertainment and you don't have to walk into a filthy toilet with pee all over the floor. It's more relaxed too.

While I don't smoke myself, smokers staying at home have all the benefits of the points above plus they can smoke in their own homes. However in saying that I believe the no smoking ban was a good call.

Crap service. I was in a pub in Terenure a few months back. I asked for a pint to have while I was waiting on my girlfriend who was having an acupuncture appointment. The service I got from the barman was verging on hostile. Plenty of people will tell you of crap service they get from bar staff, so why should they bother. Best just to stay at home.

chin_grin

I'm sorry, but how much do you want to smash the glass and stick it in four eyes' face (yer man waffling at the end of the news piece....watch the vid). Grrrrrrrrrrr.............

seamus

People are interested in saving money? Shocking!

If anything I would say that staying at home is *more* sociable than going to the pub because you can have more people over, do whatever you want (like put on whatever music or TV you want to watch) and the bar is open until it runs dry.

Roadend

Tawny wrote: »

Or is it greedy publicans charging too much for drinks and not offering a good service?

This is the biggest reason of all those you've mentioned. People are drinking at home where they don't have to pay 5-6 euro for a pint of utter pi55

Ross_Mahon

I think traditional Irish pubs are more for the older generation, a lot of the younger crowd tend to go to these new pubs that are slightlly like clubs, Disco bars or whatever you want to call them...I think the smoking ban has effected customers a bit over the years.

Ishmael

Tawny wrote: »

Is it that "there has been a cultural change within Irish society with people becoming increasingly selfish rather than sociable, and more interested in saving money than drinking beer"?

I don't think irish people have become more selfish, just a bit more sensible with regards to going out. People are a lot more likely to think twice about going out these days with the cost of a night out.

Zangetsu

The days of spending less then a fiver on a pint are well gone but I don't think this is contributing to drinking less or as the artical says 'being selfish'.

Its a load of bollox really, I still bring 100 down the pub, buy rounds, take several trips to the atm, hit the offo and stumble home as do all my mates.

The smoking ban only really effects the older generation cause young people don't seem to mind sitting in the beer garden all night (I actually think its more socialable).

Last but not least, who needs a fvckin taxi when you have a belly full of fuisce and two wobbly legs? The drunkin 3 steps forward and 2 steps back home is half the fun of going to the pub!

stovelid

It's still relatively less expensive for people to go to their local for a few.

The prices are starting to hit for a certain type of pub and the town drinking experience: long session, late bar/nightclub, food and taxi home.

Tawny

I agree with a lot of what has been said; its not about being selfish, its just that pubs are expensive so people are being more careful. A lot of pubs arent worth the money and they havent raised their standards. Getting a taxi can be a pain at night, and the last buses home are really early.

A lot of new housing developments havent been built with any regard to way of life. I live in a new development and there isnt a (decent) pub within a safe reasonable walking distance. Thats pretty bad seeing as I live in a city, its not like Im out in the country miles from anywhere.

I can't watch the film bit here so it will have to wait till I get home.

AnonoBoy

Well I'm watching my figure at the moment so that probably accounts for the closure of about 20 pubs in itself.

Zangetsu

Diet Guinness ftw ^

Burial

Pubs charge too much for pints, atmosphere isn't about everybody meeting the neighbourhood but about talking with friends, People go there to get horribly drunk and having to get home people get taxis which just add to the cost. Not to mention I can get drunk for a tenner vs. 35 euro in a pub. You also can invite people you want to see at home vs seeing annoying people at the pub. You can also listen to your own music and actually hear others rather than the bad music in pubs thats way too loud.

Having said that, going to pubs does have its good points and is quite funsometimes. Just going to a pub every weekend is boring and not fun at all. I'm more worried that these pubs are being replaced with nothing else to do. Also, the pubs that do remain, aren't going to get any cheaper...

Burial

Maybe the government should rescue the pubs instead of the banks!

Jigsaw

Burial wrote: »

Maybe the government should rescue the pubs instead of the banks!

With that sort of approach, you might just have a successful career in politics ahead of you.

Ebonyellie

Its serves the pubs right for being so greedy. You over to America and get your "buy back" as an appreciation, you go to any holiday resorts and free shots are the norm, etc etc. Ireland was always marketed as "the land of 1000 welcomes" yeah right, you might get a complimentary pint at christmas if your lucky and thats that. I live in a commuter town in the north east and in a particular pub the pint starts off at €4.90 and increases to €5:20 if there is a bar extension, the same pub will serve you and eagerly grab your money 1 minute before closing and then try and get you to leave, its not just that pub its most places. And now the publicans are whinging that they are losing trade - tough, you reap what you sow. Ive had enough of wasting my hard earned low wages in pubs, id rather waste it on 20 bottles of coors for €19.99 where i can sit at home and talk ****e for free!

Burial

Actually thats what I've noticed aswell. Me and my friends were in a pub, and they closed down early because only a few of us drank. And in a pub where a function was on, they raised there prices for it, because everyone was going to pay for it anyway. I mean 6 euro for a pint and a fiver for a shot and a tenner for two small red bulls is just absurd!

Silenceisbliss

nearly all the Irish pubs here in hamburg in germany, and every single one we wandered into while interrailing eastern europe were BRITISH OWNED!

the brits are stealing and using our nations good name for their own benefit! nobody goes into a british bar... so the damn potato heads write IRISH BAR on the front and everyone thinks "hmmm...irish, those lads are great craic, lets go in here"....penis heads

seamus

Silenceisbliss wrote: »

nearly all the Irish pubs here in hamburg in germany, and every single one we wandered into while interrailing eastern europe were BRITISH OWNED!

the brits are stealing and using our nations good name for their own benefit! nobody goes into a british bar... so the damn potato heads write IRISH BAR on the front and everyone thinks "hmmm...irish, those lads are great craic, lets go in here"....penis heads

I'd say it's more for our benefit.

What's the first thing most Irish people do when they go abroad? Look for an Irish pub.

Besides, you'll find that most cafés in Dublin are Irish-owned. Should the Italians be annoyed that we're making money from selling cappucinos?

Burial

cafés are French, so the French would be pissed off!

seamus

Yeah, but the coffee's Italian!

Burial

So we're pissing off two countries?? I'd say we blame it on the Government..

seamus

Nah, the immigrants.

It's also the immigrants' fault that pubs are closing. They don't drink enough. The Poles all drink at home. For shame!

Silenceisbliss

seamus wrote: »

I'd say it's more for our benefit.

but THEY TOOK AR JOOOOOOOOOOOOBS!!!!

Biggins

I've been a barman for 20 years.

Why is the pub trade dying?

1 The cost of pints. (Guinness, the company is the MAIN crook and the governent tax).
2. The morgages (and weekly payments) that now have rocketed to the extent that there is much less money left over to go spending down the town, which brings us to...
3. The cost of a night out will nearly cost you a weeks wages if you go out with your wife - so many more stay at home.


I provide the following comment in a box as to keep on topic over all.

As regards the smoking ban being used as an excuse - that was only PARTLY to blame at the start.
Folk stayed away initially over the ban but filtered back eventually (partly for fear of thers still going out and they were missing something!)
NOTE: Bar owners (grudgingly) have admitted now that the smiking ban has come in, their costs are less! How?
Well, because now there is less cleaning up sometimes. That means hired staff that get paid by the hours have less work = less hours = less pay to be paid.
The smoke extractor fans can be turned off a lot more = less heat being sucked out at night with the smoke = less heating costs.

There are many examples of how the smoking ban has improved things.
In my 20 plus years - the use of the excuse that the smoking ban has killed the bar trade - is a load of codswallop.

Silenceisbliss

Burial wrote: »

So we're pissing off two countries?? I'd say we blame it on the Government..

meh, french people were born to be pissed off, and italian people just shout random words and flap their arms about.....no worries

Burial

In WW2, didn't Italian soldiers just talk to their enemies in Africa rather then fight? I think thats why Rommel was brought in to help..

Eoin

Ebonyellie wrote: »

Its serves the pubs right for being so greedy. You over to America and get your "buy back" as an appreciation, you go to any holiday resorts and free shots are the norm, etc etc. Ireland was always marketed as "the land of 1000 welcomes" yeah right, you might get a complimentary pint at christmas if your lucky and thats that.

The massive tips you have to make over there to even get served more than cover the cost of them giving you a "free" drink once in a while.

I don't disagree that the pubs here are charging a fortune, but the American tipping system isn't very comparable.

Degsy

Pure greed on the part of the publicans.Constantly ramping up prices and treating the customer like some sort of eejit.
Round my way i've noticed several pubs have been sold to property developers..probably friends of the publicans...because they werent making the sort of profits they were accustomed to.
If the publicans stopped behaving like they were performing some sort of sacrament by dispensing booze and treated the customer like a human being they wouldnt be in the bind they're in now.
I for one have zero sympathy for any of them.

Burial

I suppose not having a licence to compete with night-clubs is hurting them too...

seamus

Degsy wrote: »

because they werent making the sort of profits they were accustomed to.

The problem with pubs is that they expect more out of the business than is reasonable. The mark-up that publicans make is far higher than for most types of similar businesses - restaurants, hotels, shops and so forth.

Any publican who owns a medium-sized pub (say, holding 100), is doing extraordinarily well if they can take €100k profit at the end of the year. Yet half of the pricks expect to take in half a million and decide it's a failure when they don't.

Fulton Crown

As a fairly experienced toper - I would say that reading all the posts cost and the drink driving law enforcement are the main issues.

It does however irk me somewhat to hear that gimp from the Vintners Federation blaming everybody and everything for the fall off in trade except his own members.

Far too many pubs appear not to realise that they are in the hospitality business and actually need to satisfy customer requirements !

There are a couple of pubs which I frequent fairly regularly - yet each time I go in - no recognition / no greeting / no "same as usual" - in fairness EVERYBODY gets this treatment.

Come on publicans - up off your arshes - make the punter feel welcome - recruit people friendly bar staff - do a bit o freekin market research on customer preferences - an stop bleedin whinging !:eek:

Stabshauptmann

The idea of spending a day in a pub drinking 15 pints of beer doesnt appeal to them, the ****wit says it like its a bad thing.

Pubs are badly run; music too loud and booze too expensive. Tis there own fault.

Heroditas

If they got rid of the battery of TVs then some people might be interested in heading down the pub for a quiet pint. I really hate going into some pubs and no matter where you sit, your eyes slowly start floating up towards the flat screen TV that is showing football - be it Monday, Tuesday, whenever.... :mad:

OPENROAD

Fulton Crown wrote: »

There are a couple of pubs which I frequent fairly regularly - yet each time I go in - no recognition / no greeting / no "same as usual" - in fairness EVERYBODY gets this treatment.

+1

I travel to London quite a bit and frequent the same pub there, not an irish bar, always get a nice welcome which I don't get here. The whole Irish pub thing and the craic is overrated imo, Dublin pubs lack atmosphere are expensive and have poor choice when it comes to beers imo

Shelflife

To my mind there are two main reasons.

1. The cost of drink has put off alot of people.

2. the publicans havent adapted to the changing market, with the drink driving why didnt all the pubs in the smaller towns and villages get together and organise a taxi/bus to bring customers into the pub and home for a small fee.

they dont upgrade their facilities, dirty toilets, old decor etc,

no effort to account for changing tastes a wine for madam? chardonnay or ehhh... chardonnay.

little or no effort to bring in a crowd midweek, no music karoke, games, competitions etc.

they simply havent moved with the times.

DenMan

tbh I have gone off the whole pub scene now. The pub culture is quite depressing now, as indeed it always has been. If bands are playing I will definitely head down and support them. The price is really unforgiving here as is the weather. What is really going to entice people to get up and go out, especially since we are in the initial stages of the winter? Just back from Crete where I had a blast. Everything was cheap(er) and the weather was beautiful. Somebody mentioned a karaoke, great fun if you have the weather and a good crowd. Pub numbers are falling and in Ireland we are getting like the Americans and the Canadians, taking alcohol home and having nice house parties with friends/guests etc. Just my 2c.

jester77

Silenceisbliss wrote: »

nearly all the Irish pubs here in hamburg in germany, and every single one we wandered into while interrailing eastern europe were BRITISH OWNED!

the brits are stealing and using our nations good name for their own benefit! nobody goes into a british bar... so the damn potato heads write IRISH BAR on the front and everyone thinks "hmmm...irish, those lads are great craic, lets go in here"....penis heads

I don't spend much time in the Irish bars but I know some of the guys that run them, the lad that owns Finnegans is N. Irish, the guy that owns the Shamrock is British, the guy that owns Irish Rover is from Dublin and I'm fairly sure that the lads that own the bars on Hans Alberts Platz are Irish. IMO they are all very poor and over priced, only in there for the rugby!

hussey

After living away from Ireland for 3 years I miss the pubs ... I miss the craic/atmosphere I have in the pubs with my friends.
but that is it.

Last time I went home I paid 5.20 for a pint of bulmers ...
I live in Sydney and my local serves pints for $5.60 (2.80euro), but yet in Sydney we still do the people's house for bbq/drinks then city/pub thing.

Nearly all of Ireland's social life involves the pub, we are simply changing (for the good), if we move from the pub to someone's house, then good, we pride ourself on the 'craic' we have, but is it really worth paying double so we can have a good reputation?
I fear Ireland will become more like Scandinavia where prices are so high no-one goes out until 11/12pm as they drink in houses then party in city.

if over priced pubs are closing, then good, if this means the prices will go down to a reasonable level.

Everyone knows they are over priced but still people do not complain. As a nation we need to start to complain more (not moan), by not buying over priced goods.

lostexpectation

"The inclination to go off and sit down in a pub and drink 15 pints over the course of a day doesn't sit easily with making a fortune."

jesus christ, there so many things wrong with that sentence

The Mighty Ken

The two main reasons I can't be arsed with going to the pub anymore:

1. Drink is too expensive. A pint of lager should cost no more than €3 tops.
2. Music is too loud. Last time I went for a pint after work, everyone stood there across from each other, staring around themselves. There was no point in trying to have a conversation as the music was so loud. Why do pubs do this? Most customers over 21 hate it. The pub is supposed to be a sociable place.

Tricity Bendix

OPENROAD wrote: »

+1

I travel to London quite a bit and frequent the same pub there, not an irish bar, always get a nice welcome which I don't get here. The whole Irish pub thing and the craic is overrated imo, Dublin pubs lack atmosphere are expensive and have poor choice when it comes to beers imo

The only place I've ever built a rapour with the staff was in an Irish bar in New York. They threw me a leaving bash when my visa expired and everything. Bar staff here don't give a flying f about their customers.

stovelid

I would care about having a rapport in my local, and I do; caring about bar staff in a city centre super-pub.night club at 1AM doing it...meh...all I want is a drink. Quickly.

the_syco

Meh.
Bus to Dublin €2
Bus back from Dublin €5
Taxi from village to home €6
Drink (Sunni&7up) €7 a go

Total cost: €60

I goto Fibbers myself. There's music if you want it, a decent beer garden where you can sit down, smoke, and chill. No music out there. Downstairs, there's a few quite places.

Or Reillys (opposite Trinity). Loud music, but good craic.

The local pubs, either The Courtyard or the GAA, have great sheltered smoking areas. Also, the Courtyard serves till 1.30am or so, so happy days.

I'll go to a nightclub if I'm feeling horny. No other reason to goto one.

Raze_them_all

In Kilkenny pints are still less than 5e, I get a few free shots whenever i go out, Usually spend the night taking the piss outta the bar staff and what not. Maybe the problem is Dub pubs!!

patrickbrophy18

Do you guys think that the Intoxicating Liquor Bill will damage the pub trade even further?

Shelflife

No its designed to help them by making it less attractive to open an off licence, by reducing their opening hours and putting restrictions on instore and external advertising.

The whole point of the bill was to curb disorderly conduct, you can see the above measures will do just that .

why they dont just lock up the louts and fine them €500 is beyond me or even better bring back the stocks and leave them tied up in the town centre for the day.

Blitzkrieger

I think it all has to go down to cost and the drink driving issue. For a lot of peole the drink driving causes a lot of problems. You probably have to get a taxi to the pub because you can't park your car anywhere and don't have time to collect it the next day. Though it does seem easier to get a taxi in Cork these days, it's not so great in some places and adds to the cost of a night out. There's also the worry of getting caught over the limit the next morning. Even at the weekends there's a fair chance you have to drive somewhere the next morning.

The cost thing isn't entirely the publicans fault. A lot of the money goes to Diageo (or whoever) or the government, or on overheads. I wouldn't excuse them all of being greedy bastards but who's paying for that big overhaul of the Guinness brewery? But then, it's always been expensive to go to the pub. When times were hard you couldn't spend all day sitting around drinking 15 pints, even if that's exaclty what some ****ers did anyway.....

There has been a culture change too and our priorities for where we spend our money has changed. A lot of people would rather have the '08 SUV in the driveway of their big-ass house than spend time socialising in the pub. There's a lot more going on in our lives too. 20 years ago there was no paying the Sky bill because Sky TV didn't exist. Going to a physiotherapist was unheard of - you suffered on. You wouldn't be buying mobile phones and designer clothes for your kids, or paying for them to be going to the cinema every time Pixar brings something new out.

I never drink at home and my friends all live too far away to be taking turns having house parties. I go to the pub to socialise and have a few drinks while I'm there. I tend to go to the local a lot more in the last couple of years instead of to the city. I tended to meet more new people when I drank in the city more, but the craic down the local is good too. I know next weekend when the match is on, there's no way I'm going to watch it at home - it'll be much more fun with the atmosphere in the pub.




[aside]Jebus - I can't believe that guy got paid to go on a pub crawl around the country. Let's be honest - who the **** is going to buy that book? Is it any wonder the country is in recession when people throw money at twats like that. What kind of name is Turtle anyway....[/aside]

more off topic comments :

seamus wrote: »

What's the first thing most Irish people do when they go abroad? Look for an Irish pub.

I actually do that a lot because the Irish pub tends to be a tourist trap. I remember chatting to two Finnish girls in an Irish pub in Brussels who had been there two days earlier than us. They recommended a great nightclub.

seamus wrote: »

It's also the immigrants' fault that pubs are closing. They don't drink enough. The Poles all drink at home. For shame!

Lol - remember a big group of Polish lads bemused at why they were being kicked out of the local during the last world cup. They were sitting around drinking cans in the smoking area....

fifth

I've definitely noticed a lot of people i know won't go out now unless they're well on their way after having a few drinks at home first. It's always better I think!

hopalong85

yeah, i'll usually be drinking at home before going out these days. unless it's just down to the pub for a few quiet ones.